U.S. expanding the Afghan war into Pakistan

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M. Spector M. Spector's picture
U.S. expanding the Afghan war into Pakistan

 

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

quote:


The US military, with the possible cooperation of the Afghan military, may have conducted a special operations air assault across the border into Taliban-controlled South Waziristan, according to unconfirmed reports from Pakistan.

The initial report from a Geo TV correspondent indicated the casualties were taken after [b]US helicopters launched missiles at three homes in the Barmal area of Angorada late at night.[/b]

The report later changed when the correspondent claimed [b]the helicopters landed and troops dismounted, who then began searching homes. One witness told The Associated Press that "American and Afghan soldiers starting firing" on one family outside of their home. Soldiers then entered the home and others, and killed fifteen people, including women and children.[/b] The raid was reported to have occurred in the village of Musa Nikow.

The Pakistani military confirmed an attack occurred in the region, AP reported but did not provide details. Two anonymous Pakistani intelligence officials said the attack occurred, and [b]claimed 19 were killed[/b]. The US military in Afghanistan said its forces were not involved, and the US embassy in Pakistan did not comment.

[b]The US military command in Afghanistan can plausibly deny its forces were involved in such a raid as the operation would be carried out by Special Forces teams. Task Force 88, the hunter-killer teams assigned to take down al Qaeda and the Taliban's command structure, does not report to the conventional command in Afghanistan.[/b] - [url=http://www.longwarjournal.org/archives/2008/09/pakistanis_claim_us.php]S...


That's right. These hunter-killer teams (known elsewhere in the world as "death squads") operate completely outside the usual chain of command and have a free rein to ignore the rule of law - even the rules concerning international boundaries.

This Sunday missile attack was apparently the fourth one in the month of August.

The third one had occurred a day earlier, when four people were killed, including two Canadians:

quote:

Four people, including two Canadians of Arab origin, were killed and two other people injured when a missile reportedly fired from Afghanistan hit a house in the Korzai area of South Waziristan on Saturday.

According to local people, a plane was seen flying over the area shortly before the missile hit the house of one Noor Khan Gangikhel near a scout camp in Wana at around 4.30pm.


[url=http://www.dawn.com/2008/08/31/top3.htm]Pakistan Dawn[/url]

And from [url=http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/sep/03/pakistan.afghanistan1]The Guardian:[/url]

quote:

The war in Afghanistan spilled over into Pakistani territory for the first time today when heavily armed commandoes, believed to be US special forces, landed by helicopter and attacked three houses in a village close to a known Taliban and al-Qaida stronghold.

The early morning attack on Jala Khel killed between seven and 20 people, according to a range of reports from the remote Angoor Adda region of South Waziristan. The village is situated less than a mile from the Afghanistan border.

[b]Local residents were quoted as saying most of the dead were civilians and included women and children. It was not known whether any Taliban or al-Qaida militants or western forces were among the dead.[/b]

Major-General Athar Abbas, a spokesman for the Pakistan army, said Nato's International Security Assistance Force (Isaf) had carried out the raid. "Two helicopters of Isaf landed very early in the morning and conducted a raid on a compound there. As per our report, seven civilians were killed in this raid."

But a Nato spokesman denied involvement. "There has been no Nato or Isaf involvement crossing the border into Pakistan," the Nato spokesman James Appathurai said.

There were unconfirmed reports that the incursion was carried out by US special forces, which are not under Isaf command and can operate independently. [b]A US military spokesman at the Bagram base near Kabul did not deny an attack had occurred[/b] but declined to comment.


quote:

Coalition forces have sent missiles into the border region of Pakistan to strike against militants but commando operations by American forces into the tribal region have been under discussion in Washington. - [url=http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/04/world/asia/04attack.html]NYT[/url]

Of course, [url=http://www.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUSN0132206420070801]Barack Obama approves.[/url]

[ 22 September 2008: Message edited by: M. Spector ]

thorin_bane

I smell cambodia all over this. But hey this war is nothing like vietnam we are winning this one .

Fidel

So long as Americans believe the "war on terror" is real, they don't actually have to put hundreds of thousands of troops into Afghanistan for a total military occupation. One of these days some prominent American will actually be heard to say that they don't need to spend this much money on defenSe. And all hell will break loose, perhaps a false flag Gladio operation on American soil in order to, as Donald "The Don" Rumsfeld said in recent times, correct the situation.

Unionist

quote:


Originally posted by Fidel:
[b]So long as Americans believe the "war on terror" is real, they don't actually have to put hundreds of thousands of troops into Afghanistan for a total military occupation. [/b]

A total what??

The only difference "hundreds of thousands" of troops would make is many more U.S. casualties.

The U.S., with their Canadian helpers, can't win this war. Besides being at war with the Afghan people, they are increasingly showing themselves to be cowards - refusing to engage the insurgents in frontal battle, and instead calling in random-killing air strikes whenever danger rears its head.

Weak-kneed snivelers like these are no match for the insurgents, who are fighting for their own people, and who do battle without fear. The Afghan people will win - indeed, they are winning. Canada's choice, like the others, is how many dead to tolerate before that inevitable victory is won.

Fidel

quote:


Originally posted by unionist:
[b]

The only difference "hundreds of thousands" of troops would make is many more U.S. casualties.

The U.S., with their Canadian helpers, can't win this war.[/b]


That's true, and Yanquis realize this as well. All the world's a stage, isn't it?

I don't believe the Yanks have any real intentions for nation-building in Afghanistan. Destablilizing countries is what they've done throughout the cold war. And I think Zbignew Brzezinski types will have already warned them not to let the Russians give them another VietNam, or a reversal of roles of the proxy war in Afghanistan from 1980-89.

Gore Vidal said the Soviets stabbled the MIC in the back by ceding the cold war. All the warfiteers really wanted is to maintain the illusion of an external threat. We already know that this is a phony war on terror and that 9-11 commissioners themselves indicated a probable coverup.

Farmpunk

Far be it for me to nitpick your sources, Spector, but that Obama\Reuters link is from 2007. Of course, he's probably still in favour of invasive action.

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

quote:


Originally posted by Farmpunk:
[b]Far be it for me to nitpick your sources, Spector, but that Obama\Reuters link is from 2007. Of course, he's probably still in favour of invasive action.[/b]

Well of course he is. He has said so many times. I just did a Google and picked the first one of thousands that came up.

And while we're nitpicking, it's "far be it [b]from[/b] me." [img]wink.gif" border="0[/img]

Fidel

Just last month Obama repeated that he is even more committed to the phony war on terror than John McCain. Meanwhile, the two old line parties(U.S. in this case) have accused each other back-and forth of aiding and abetting every Islamic extremost group, from al Qa'eda to KLA to Iranian Revolutionary Guardsmen to the mujahideen, from 1992 right up to 2001. This time frame is significant because the NSA-CIA was supposed to have broken all ties to these inteligence/Islamic Gladio assets in 1992. LLLLLIES!

jester

quote:


Originally posted by unionist:
[b]

A total what??

The only difference "hundreds of thousands" of troops would make is many more U.S. casualties.

The U.S., with their Canadian helpers, can't win this war. Besides being at war with the Afghan people, they are increasingly showing themselves to be cowards - refusing to engage the insurgents in frontal battle, and instead calling in random-killing air strikes whenever danger rears its head.

Weak-kneed snivelers like these are no match for the insurgents, who are fighting for their own people, and who do battle without fear. The Afghan people will win - indeed, they are winning. Canada's choice, like the others, is how many dead to tolerate before that inevitable victory is won.[/b]


[img]biggrin.gif" border="0[/img] Strong words indeed - jingoistic even. Oh, we can only wish that such a stalwart supporter of the warrior ethos were on Canada's side.

No mention that almost all of Canada's casualties were inflicted by 'insurgents who battle without fear' using remote detonated explosive devices bravely buried in roads an byways.

No mention of the civilian Afghans maimed and killed by these same devices. No mention of the civilian Afghans targetted by the Taliban for murder just to buck up the rest of the civilian population.

Yes,yes, Homage to the 'insurgents who battle without fear' by our own Taliban rentboy.

Webgear

Last week 10 Afghans were killed north of Kandahar City when their vehicle struck an IED.

Several dozens were killed and wounded in Spin Boldak in early Augusts by IEDs and suicide bombers.

Unionist

quote:


Originally posted by jester:
[b]Yes,yes, Homage to the 'insurgents who battle without fear' by our own Taliban rentboy.[/b]

Thank you. I love you too. May I please bear your babies? Are you as fertile as your posts? God I love you, it's, like, overwhelming. Love love love.

Unionist

quote:


Originally posted by Webgear:
[b]Last week 10 Afghans were killed north of Kandahar City when their vehicle struck an IED.

Several dozens were killed and wounded in Spin Boldak in early Augusts by IEDs and suicide bombers.[/b]


Source, please.

Fidel

quote:


Originally posted by unionist:
[b] Love love love.[/b]

Aye-aye, cap'n! Attennnnnhut!

Bacchus

quote:


refusing to engage the insurgents in frontal battle

Actually dont the Allied forces love direct combat? Where their tanks and stuff just wipe out Taliban forces? (at least in any of the direct conflicts so far)The taliban are just using the techniquesw that worked so well against the Soviets. Hit and run, disperse into the mountains etc. Direct conflict is just suicide for them

jester

quote:


Originally posted by unionist:
[b]

Thank you. I love you too. May I please bear your babies? Are you as fertile as your posts? God I love you, it's, like, overwhelming. Love love love.[/b]


Bear my babies? Are you female? No, I'm a cowhand, not a trucker [img]biggrin.gif" border="0[/img] "Whats love gotta do,gotta do with it" I love the Pointer Sisters too. How did a nice Jewish girl from Montreal get Hearst Syndrome for Mullah Omar anyway?

I can visualise you,arm in arm with Omar,singing Stout Hearted men with Pythonesque abandon.

Unionist

quote:


Originally posted by Bacchus:
[b]

Actually dont the Allied forces love direct combat? Where their tanks and stuff just wipe out Taliban forces? (at least in any of the direct conflicts so far)The taliban are just using the techniquesw that worked so well against the Soviets. Hit and run, disperse into the mountains etc. Direct conflict is just suicide for them[/b]


The "Allied forces" call in air strikes every single time they spot an insurgent, without exception. The insurgents don't appear to have aircraft or anti-aircraft capability. How do you characterize that form of warfare?

The U.S., Canada, U.K. troops are cowards. They can only engage insurgents from the safety of superior armament - and it's not so safe any more.

That doesn't exclude guerrilla tactics on the part of the insurgents. They can and must use such tactics, because of inferior means and because they have sufficient support among the local population (without which they would have been dead and gone long ago).

Unionist

quote:


Originally posted by jester:
[b]I can visualise you,arm in arm with Omar,singing Stout Hearted men with Pythonesque abandon.[/b]

Oh, God! Oh, jester! Oh, God!!!

Fidel

quote:


Originally posted by jester:
[b] "Whats love gotta do,gotta do with it" I love the Pointer Sisters too.[/b]

Tina Turner?

quote:

[b]I can visualise you,arm in arm with Omar,singing Stout Hearted men with Pythonesque abandon.[/b]

That's pretty close to what Republicans accused Lib-Dems of having done in the 90's, and vice versa in the 2000's. And our same two parties just hum along.

jester

quote:


Originally posted by Fidel:
[b]

That's pretty close to what Republicans accused Lib-Dems of having done in the 90's, and vice versa in the 2000's. And our same two parties just hum along.[/b]


Yeah, Tina. mea culpa. Yes, the Taliban do present useful optics at times. I don't doubt that previous connections to the CIA are providing mutual profits in the present conflict. No sense letting the corrupt Karzai and crew have all the spoils.

jester

quote:


Originally posted by unionist:
[b]

Oh, God! Oh, jester! Oh, God!!![/b]


I do hope its laughter that is incapacitating you.

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

quote:


“Top American officials” have told the New York Times that this raid “could be the opening salvo in a much broader campaign by Special Operations forces against the Taliban and Al Qaeda inside Pakistan, a secret plan that Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates has been advocating for months within President Bush’s war council.”

The plan of course enjoys the support of John McCain, who never met a warlike action he didn’t like, as well as his opponent in the presidential race. Barack Obama has been saying for over a year that is the U.S. has “actionable intelligence about high-value terrorist targets” in Pakistan and the chance to hit them, it should do so. The hell with Pakistani sovereignty! Why should such a detail matter after “we were attacked”?


[url=http://www.counterpunch.org/leupp09062008.html]Gary Leupp[/url]

Frustrated Mess Frustrated Mess's picture

quote:


In a major development, the federal government on Friday announced disconnection of supply lines to the allied forces stationed in Afghanistan through Pakistan in an apparent reaction to a ground attack on a border village in South Waziristan agency by the Nato forces.

Political authorities of the Khyber Agency claimed to have received verbal directives to immediately halt transportation of all kinds of goods meant for the US-led Nato forces in Afghanistan for an indefinite period.


[url=http://www.thenews.com.pk/top_story_detail.asp?Id=17051]Oops![/url]

jester

quote:


Thirty-one people have so far been confirmed dead in the blast, five of whom are policemen. Eighty-one others, including four policemen, were injured. A policeman is missing as well,” Senior Superintendent of Police (SSP), Operations, Peshawar, Kashif Alam, told The News. The SSP was all praise for SI Aurangzeb, saying he sacrificed his life but did not let the bomber hit his target.

The suicide bomber apparently hit the police post when he learnt that he would miss his target. Majority of the victims were innocent villagers who either owned shops in the three markets or were buying daily use items from the market when they fell victim to the blast.

A senior police official believes that the bomber was on his way to hit some important building, probably the NWFP Assembly Secretariat, where legislators were casting their votes to elect the 12th president of Pakistan. Police had sealed the entire area around the NWFP Assembly after being tipped off about possible suicide bombing in the provincial capital.


[url=http://www.thenews.com.pk/top_story_detail.asp?Id=17074]More mayhem[/url]

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

quote:


Bush's decision to extend the war into Pakistan, and his apparent hope of British backing, formed the background to a video conference call with Gordon Brown yesterday. "What's happening on the border of Pakistan and Afghanistan is something where we need to develop a new strategy," Brown said before talking to Bush.

Brown said he would discuss the border issue with Pakistan's new president, Asif Ali Zardari, who visits Britain next week.

Bush's unusual move in personally calling the prime minister for an Afghan strategy discussion has led to speculation that the US president was trying to line up British support for the new policy, including the possible involvement of British special forces in future cross-border incursions.


[url=http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/sep/12/usforeignpolicy.usa]Bush secret order to send special forces into Pakistan[/url]

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

quote:


The United States has just invaded Cambodia. The name of Cambodia this time is Pakistan, but otherwise it’s the same story as in Indochina in 1970.

An American army, deeply frustrated by its inability to defeat an anti-American insurgent movement despite years of struggle, decides that the key to victory lies in a neighboring country. In 1970 the problem was the Ho Chi Minh Trail in Cambodia. Today it is Taliban and al Qaeda bases inside Pakistan, which the United States has been attacking from the air for some time, with controversial “collatoral damages.”

George W. Bush has now authorized independent ground assaults on Taliban and al Qaeda targets in Pakistan’s Tribal Territories, without consultation with Pakistan authorities. These already have begun.

This follows a period of tension, with some armed clashes, between American and Pakistani military units, the latter defending “Pakistan’s national sovereignty.” Pakistan public opinion seems largely against “America’s war” being fought inside Pakistan.

Washington’s decision was made known just in time for the 7th anniversary of the 9/11 attacks that opened the first phase of the “war on terror,” after which “nothing could ever be the same.” We no doubt have now begun phase two.


[url=http://www.williampfaff.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=341]William Pfaff[/url]

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

quote:


Fourteen people were killed in the northwestern Pakistani region of North Waziristan on Friday in a missile attack by a pilotless U.S. aircraft on suspected militants near the Afghan border, security officials said.

The strike, near the town of Miranshah, was the first since a recent surge in tension between Pakistan and the United States over how to tackle the Taliban and al Qaeda on the Pakistani side of the border.

"We confirm a missile attack at around 5.30 in the morning (2330 GMT on Thursday) ... We have informed the government," said military spokesman Major Murad Khan.

The military, apparently reluctant to highlight infringements of sovereignty, has rarely confirmed such attacks.

Khan gave no more details but security officials in the region said 14 people had been killed and about 12 wounded. - [url=http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2008/09/12-4]Reuters[/url]


M. Spector M. Spector's picture

quote:


When in doubt, escalate the war is an old imperial motto. The strikes against Pakistan represent -- like the decisions of President Richard Nixon and his National Security Adviser Henry Kissinger to bomb and then invade Cambodia (acts that, in the end, empowered Pol Pot and his monsters) -- a desperate bid to salvage a war that was never good, but has now gone badly wrong.

It is true that those resisting the NATO occupation cross the Pakistan-Afghan border with ease. However, the U.S. has often engaged in quiet negotiations with them. Several feelers have been put out to the Taliban in Pakistan, while U.S. intelligence experts regularly check into the Serena Hotel in Swat to discuss possibilities with Mullah Fazlullah, a local pro-Taliban leader. The same is true inside Afghanistan.


[url=http://www.tomdispatch.com/post/174977]Tariq Ali[/url]

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

[url=http://www.newsweek.com/id/159160/output/print]Pakistan army says troops have orders to open fire to stop US raids across Afghan border[/url]

thorin_bane

Is this the US firing up the cold war machine with pakistan and russia as the foils ala canadian bacon(the movie) or is this truning into a real problem. It would be weird to fight communist(as they will say) russia and the theocracy that is pakistan as it would make no sense at all from an idiological perspective.

Fidel

quote:


Originally posted by thorin_bane:
[b] It would be weird to fight communist(as they will say) russia and the theocracy that is pakistan as it would make no sense at all from an idiological perspective.[/b]

The U.S. has been led by an extremely intelligent clique of psychopaths since before the doctor and the madman of the 1970's. They've slaughtered millions and gotten away with it then and now in the 1990's to this decade. Capitalism was always fascism with the mask on. These hawks [i]have[/i] considered winning wars using nuclear weapons. Make way for war party number two, or one, whichever of the same two political parties Americans are only ever allowed to choose from. These elections are a charade, and the whole world knows it.

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

quote:


The George W. Bush administration's decision to launch commando raids and step up missiles strikes against Taliban and al Qaeda figures in the tribal areas of Pakistan followed what appears to have been the most contentious policy process over the use of force in Bush's eight-year presidency.

That decision has stirred such strong opposition from the Pakistani military and government that it is now being revisited. Adm. Mike Mullen, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, arrived in Pakistan Tuesday for the second time in three weeks, and U.S. officials and sources just told Reuters that any future raids would be approved on a mission-by-mission basis by a top U.S. administration official.

The policy was the result of strong pressure from the U.S. command in Afghanistan and lobbying by the Special Operations Command (SOCOM) and the CIA's operations directorate (DO), both of which had direct institutional interests in operations that coincided with their mandate.

State Department and some Pentagon officials had managed to delay the proposed military escalation in Pakistan for a year by arguing that it would be based on nearly nonexistent intelligence and would only increase support for the Islamic extremists in that country.

But officials of SOCOM and the CIA prevailed in the end, apparently because Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney believed they could not afford to be seen as doing nothing about bin Laden and al Qaeda in the administration's final months.


[url=http://ipsnorthamerica.net/news.php?idnews=1694]Inter Press Service[/url]

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

quote:


Pakistani troops twice opened fire to repel two US helicopter gunships which violated Pakistani airspace in a tribal region bordering Afghanistan, officials said Monday.

The incidents happened about half an hour apart on Sunday evening near Lwara Mundi village in the North Waziristan district, where Pakistani forces have been battling Taliban and Al-Qaeda militants, they said.

"Pakistani forces fired at two US gunships which violated Pakistan's airspace and forced them to return to Afghanistan," a local security official told AFP on condition of anonymity.

"The helicopters flew back after our troops fired shots at them."

A senior security official based in Islamabad said later that the helicopters were repelled on two separate occasions by both army troops and soldiers from the paramilitary Frontier Corps (FC).

"The helicopters were heading towards our border. We were alert and when they were right on the boundary line we started aerial firing, they hovered for a few minutes and went back," the official said.

"About 30 minutes later they made another attempt. We retaliated again, firing in the air and not in their direction, from both the army position and the FC position, and they went back," he added.


[url=http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5jqhY55584EVVKxIIbOeHrLWeoPvA]AFP[/url]

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

quote:


In response to the public outcry in Pakistan against Bush's policy statements and the military attacks, on September 17, Admiral Mike Mullen, the Chairman of the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff, pledged to the Pakistani leadership that Washington would respect the nation's sovereignty.

But less that one day after Mullen's promise the U.S. launched another missile attack against a compound in Waziristan, killing at least five villagers. This was only the latest in a series of ground and air assaults against tribal areas in Pakistan since early this month.

After the first gound incursion, on September 3, Pakistani officials temporarily closed the most crucial land route for transporting supplies to U.S.-NATO's troops in Afghanistan. Pakistan's parliament unanimously called for the use of force in response to further attacks. Army chief General Ashfaq Kayani declared that the territorial integrity of his country "will be defended at all costs." This rebuke was intended both to chastise Washington and to bolster the enraged Pakistani public's confidence in the army. Anti-Americanism in Pakistan has reached a record high, and the army is threatened with a loss of perceived legitimacy if it is unable to repel U.S. incursions.

Kayani's threat was dismissed as mere bluster in Washington. But Washington was forced to think twice when, on September 15, two U.S. armed helicopters attempting to cross into Pakistan were forced to retreat by firepower from Pakistan-based forces. The following day the head of the military's press liason branch announced the military's policy regarding future U.S.-NATO attempted air or ground crossings into Pakistan: "The orders are clear... open fire."


[url=http://www.commondreams.org/view/2008/09/23-5]Source[/url]
-----

quote:

A US spy plane crashed in a Pakistan tribal area on the border with Afghanistan on Tuesday.

Unconfirmed reports said the drone, an unmannned aircraft known to be used by the U.S.-led forces in Afghanistan to launch missile strikes in the tribal areas of Pakistan, was shot down by tribals.

The plane came down in Angoor Adda, which saw a ground incursion by American troops earlier this month and a missile strike. - [url=http://www.hindu.com/2008/09/24/stories/2008092480001800.htm]Source[/url]


[ 23 September 2008: Message edited by: M. Spector ]

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

[url=http://www.thenews.com.pk/top_story_detail.asp?Id=17463]President of Pakistan meets with Dubya on September 23; apparently the subject of U.S. incursions into Pakistan never comes up.[/url]

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

quote:


Pakistani troops fired on U.S. helicopters on Thursday in a sharp escalation of tensions between the two allies, who gave conflicting accounts of the incident.

Pakistan's military said its soldiers fired warning shots at the helicopters after they intruded into Pakistani airspace. But the United States said the aircraft were operating inside Afghanistan.

"The flight path of the helicopters at no point took them over Pakistan," Pentagon spokesman Bryan Whitman said.

"This is an unfortunate incident. It just goes to demonstrate the importance of coordination along that border," he added. "The Pakistanis have to provide us with a better understanding of why this took place."

Pakistani military spokesman Major-General Athar Abbas said: "There were two helicopters from Afghanistan that crossed into Pakistani territory. Our soldiers fired warning shots and those helicopters returned fire and flew back."

Washington denied returning fire. There were no casualties, nor were the helicopters damaged. - [url=http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSTRE48O7II20080925]Reuters[/url]


quote:


Pakistani and American ground troops exchanged fire along the border with Afghanistan on Thursday [b]after[/b] the Pakistanis shot at two American helicopters... - [url=http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/26/world/asia/26military.html]NYT[/url]

[ 25 September 2008: Message edited by: M. Spector ]

Unionist

This is what Obama has been calling for:

[url=http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2008/10/04/pakistan-airstrikes.html?ref=rs... than 20 dead after U.S. air strike in North Waziristan[/url]

quote:

Pakistani villagers collected the corpses and body parts on Saturday of at least 20 people, including several suspected Arab militants as well as three children, killed by a U.S. missile strike overnight.

A pilotless drone aircraft launched the attack late on Friday, targeting a tribesman's house in Mohammad Khel, a village 30 kilometres west of Miranshah in North Waziristan, a known sanctuary of al-Qaeda and Taliban militants close to the Afghan border. ...

"We now have a figure of 20 dead. That includes eight residents of the house, five other locals and seven foreigners," the official said, speaking on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the subject.

The foreigners appeared to be Arabs, although their nationalities were unknown, he said.


M. Spector M. Spector's picture

quote:


It doesn’t seem to matter to Americans that the [Sept. 3] blitz conducted by their troops resulted in the deaths of six women and two children, citizens of Pakistan. There has been no indication of regret or sympathy; not a shred of remorse for killing children. For how long can the non-American world tolerate this sort of barbaric malevolence? In America it doesn’t matter, because "Support Our Troops!" is the American mantra, especially in election year, and if a US citizen doesn’t wave the flag and say that American troops are wonderful, even when killing kids in Pakistan, then they are regarded as unpatriotic, which is a dreadful crime.

To justify the slaughter the usual highly-placed anonymous US official told the New York Times that “The situation in the tribal areas is not tolerable. We have to be more assertive. Orders have been issued.”

[b]You can hear the Hitlerian resonance in this, straight from Cheney and Bush. It has hideous echoes of “My patience is exhausted,” before Fascist Germany invaded its neighbors – and of the justification that “Befehl ist Befehl” : “an order is an order,” as the Gestapo herded terrified women and children into concentration camps and then to gas chambers.[/b] (In fact some of the victims in the Guantanamo Bay concentration camp would welcome death by gassing, it being preferable to the vicious torture they are undergoing.) The American attitude, under Bush, is one of intolerance and macho contempt for any who dare to display independence. “We have to be more assertive” is a chilling declaration of what motivates the Washington administration. It is unlikely to change, irrespective of who is the next president. - [url=http://www.counterpunch.org/cloughley09262008.html]Brian Cloughley[/url]


M. Spector M. Spector's picture

quote:


Suspected US drones fired missiles into a Pakistani village yesterday, killing at least 11 people. The attack targeted a village in the North Waziristan region near the Afghan border where Jalaluddin Haqqani, an old friend of Osama bin Laden, had established a school.

It was currently run by one of Haqqani's own commanders. Residents said three missiles were fired by pilotless drones and one hit the school while the other two hit a house.

The school was not believed to have any students in it at the time of the attack.

Twenty-three people, most of them relatives of Haqqani, were killed in a similar attack on the same village last month.


[url=http://www.gulf-daily-news.com/Story.asp?Article=232658&Sn=WORL&IssueID=... Daily News[/url]

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

quote:


Twenty people were killed last night in a missile strike by CIA Predator drone aircraft inside Pakistan amid reports that Washington is intensifying its aerial bombardment of the country after being forced to back away from plans to send in ground forces.

The attack - the 18th in the past few weeks - targeted what was described as a "militant compound" close to Wana, the main town of the South Waziristan tribal agency that is the fiefdom of top jihadi commander Baitullah Mehsud - a man closely linked to al-Qa'ida and the Taliban.

The latest strike and others carried out by the CIA were described last night by Pakistani Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani as "disastrous".

"Such actions are proving counter-productive to (the Government's) efforts to isolate the extremists and militants from the tribal population which is involved in the formation of tribal lashkars (armies)," Mr Gilani said.

In Islamabad yesterday, the first serious moves at peace talks with the Taliban in both Pakistan and Afghanistan began when a tribal jirga (assembly) convened at the instigation of both governments.

The jirga brings together more than 50 tribal elders from both sides of the Durand Line that notionally divides the two countries, and is seen as a modest first attempt to begin negotiations with the militants.

Participants said the viability of peace talks was likely to form the basis of the discussions, with strong opposition certain to emerge against US policy, including the Predator drone strikes, as well as the presence of US and other coalition forces in Afghanistan.

A leading participant, former Pakistani ambassador to Afghanistan Rustam Shah Mohmand, said it would be impossible to deal with the Taliban as long as Western forces remained in Afghanistan. - [url=http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24559930-2703,00.html... Australian[/url]


M. Spector M. Spector's picture

[url=Google">http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article5762371.ece][col... Earth reveals secret history of US base in Pakistan[/url]

Quote:
The US was secretly flying unmanned drones from the Shamsi airbase in Pakistan's southwestern province of Baluchistan as early as 2006, according to an image of the base from Google Earth.

The image — that is no longer on the site but which was obtained by The News, Pakistan's English language daily newspaper — shows what appear to be three Predator drones outside a hangar at the end of the runway. The Times also obtained a copy of the image, whose co-ordinates confirm that it is the Shamsi airfield, also known as Bandari, about 200 miles southwest of the Pakistani city of Quetta.

An investigation by The Times yesterday revealed that the CIA was secretly using Shamsi to launch the Predator drones that observe and attack al-Qaeda and Taleban militants around Pakistan's border with Afghanistan.

 

[img]http://www.timesonline.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00489/2006image_489722a....

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If you have Google Earth installed on your computer, clicking on [url=THIS">http://bbs.keyhole.com/ubb/ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=766666&fil... LINK[/url] will open your program and take you to the current view of the Shamsi airfield, sans drones.

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

With two missile strikes over the past week, the Obama administration has expanded the covert war run by the Central Intelligence Agency inside Pakistan, attacking a militant network seeking to topple the Pakistani government.

The missile strikes on training camps run by Baitullah Mehsud represent a broadening of the American campaign inside Pakistan, which has been largely carried out by drone aircraft. Under President Bush, the United States frequently attacked militants from Al Qaeda and the Taliban involved in cross-border attacks into Afghanistan, but had stopped short of raids aimed at Mr. Mehsud and his followers, who have played less of a direct role in attacks on American troops.

- [url=NYT[/url]">http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/21/washington/21policy.html][color=medium...

Fidel

In that google earth photo above, those are either planes for kidnappings and renditions, or they are clandestine air taxis for running drugs and weapons to and fro the Taliban. Or perhaps theyre multiple use.

Jingles

What are you talking about? Those are Predator drones. They launch Hellfire missiles, they don't carry cargo.

Fidel

They prolly are drones. But take a measure of the runway - just under 10000 feet. They dont need all that for radio-controlled toys

NorthReport

Soon we will be longing for the good ole days of Musharraf Laughing

Playing With Fire in Pakistan

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/28/opinion/28sat1.html

 

Almost no one wants to say it out loud. But between the threats from extremists, an unraveling economy, battling civilian leaders and tensions with its nuclear rival India, Pakistan is edging ever closer to the abyss.

In a report this week, The Atlantic Council warned that Pakistan’s stability is imperiled and that the time to change course is fast running out. That would be quite enough for any government to deal with. Then on Wednesday, Pakistan’s Supreme Court added new fuel upholding a ruling barring opposition leader Nawaz Sharif — a former prime minister — and his brother from holding elected office. That touched off protests across Punjab Province, the Sharifs’ power base and Pakistan’s richest and politically most important province.

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

NorthReport wrote:

Soon we will be longing for the good ole days of Musharraf

I'm already longing for the good ol' days when babblers didn't quote editorials from right-wing US newspapers as if they were gems of progressive thought...

Jingles

Quote:
Soon we will be longing for the good ole days of Musharraf

I'm already longing for the days of the unabashed fascist GW Bush. You know, when men were men, and so-called progressives weren't swooning over a smooth talking salesman. What do you have now?

from another thread

Quote:
Compared to what the USA has had for presidents in the recent past I'm delighted with what the new president represents.

The new president represents the same people that they've always represented. What we get is a "surge" in the occupation of Afghanistan, war on Pakistan and Iran (if Obama's team gets its way), occupation of Iraq (oh no! He's withdrawing! Er..except for the 50,000 "advisors and trainers"), continuing torture by the myriad out of control "intelligence" agencys, and Amerosupremecy with a smiley face.

 

Fidel

[url=http://www.thenews.com.pk/top_story_detail.asp?Id=20534][=mediumblu... Omar orders halt to attacks on Pak troops[/color][/url]

Quote:
ISLAMABAD: The militants active in North and South Waziristan agencies have been directed by Mulla Omar to immediately stop their attacks on the Pakistani security forces.

In a letter to the militants, who have forged a new alliance, Mulla Omar admonished them not to fight the Pakistani security forces and kill their Muslim brethren, a reliable source told The News on Monday.

“Mulla Omar first sent an envoy to the local Taliban and then wrote a letter to the banned Tehrik-e-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) admonishing these leaders and told the TTP that fighting Muslims could not be described as Jihad so they should immediately cease attacks on the Pakistani security forces.

He told them that if they really want to participate in Jihad, they must fight the US and Nato troops inside Afghanistan because their attacks on the Pakistani security forces are undermining the objectives of the war against the invaders and cause of the Taliban movement.

So the ISI's jihadi creations are helping them out a little, and refocussing on securing drug trafficking and slave smuggling routes thru Afghanistan. And the CIA-ISI's database of expendible militant Islamic jihadis will prolly join one another in Afghanistan in providing a unified phony enemy for NATO's phony war on terror in Afghanistan. It's getting harder to keep up with the latest phony news in this phony war.

LeighT

I am going to need to get caught up reading these threads on the situation in Afghanistan, and now it seems expanding further into Pakistan, as some of rabble's bloggers have been writing about.

All I know from this end is that the body bags keep travelling down the 401 and all my neighbours are out on the bridges giving their last farewells...its so depressing.  Depressing for the families, for the soldiers who are in uniform, for communities here in Canada who have been on the receiving end of the attacks in years gone by.  Now we're dishing it out to others, to civilians in other countries who happen to live on land someone else wants to control.  It's not right.

War must end.  People must find other ways to solve problems.

Violence only leads to more violence, more suffering, and the old pains and angers carry on for more generations.

It's up to each person in Canada to decide that they will stop killing, directly, or indirectly through their silence in the face of other's suffering.

All of us need to voice our opposition to further war. 

It's time for peace.

 

 

 

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

No justice, no peace.

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