Viva la revolucion! Cuba's 50th anniversary (cont'd.)

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old_bolshie

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But Cubans have......something more than a corrugated
tin shack

You haven't seen much of Cuba have you pilgrim-in fact you've never seen Cuba at all-not even from 30,000' up like most people.

I have images of Cuban rural poverty that would turn most people's stomach but for reasons of my own won't put them up on the net-something to do with destroying people's dignity and providing ammunition for axe grinders of one stripe or the other.

I repeat-outside of a few show farms/potemkin villages rural Cubans live worse than most Canadian farm animals-this from someone who grew up up in a farm town.

 Another angle-the ecological one is quite interesting.

One would think that the lack of industrialisation has helped preserve Cuba natural environment but sadly this isn't at all the case-people have literally eaten the land-consuming everything that isn't (literally in the case of some nature preserves) guarded @ gunpoint.

That which can't be consumed is discarded willy-nilly there to pollute until the end of time  and no one cares.

Fidel

And here are some not-so complimentary photos of the land of the free in all its glory. Observe the photo entitled,"Child growing up in a ditch in Florida" The grinding poverty and despair in many parts of America is depressing when you think about it. U.S. government statistics estimate 35 million or more Americans are food insecure. That's more than three times the population of Cuba in America being denied the basic human right to food. And keep in mind that this is the oppressive country our stooges have tied Canada's economic wagon to over the years. 

old_bolshie

I've seen worse on native reserves in northern Quebec and Saskatchewan-you could too if you ever decided to leave the double wide.

Fidel

I have friends and relatives who've driven through some parts of Ohio, Kentucky, and the Ozarks and observed poverty like they've never seen it before.

I've lived and worked in remote northern regions of Northern Ontario and the two provinces either side of it. And after 42 consecutive years of political conservatism in Ontario, and 50 in all, I can say for sure that there are still thirdworld conditions strewn throughout very many parts of it. This is the legacy of the mining barons who left the country long ago and taken the profits extracted from the ground with them. Ghost towns are what are left, and health statistics and poverty across Northern Canada have been compared to what exists in countries like Bangladesh and Kazhakstan. And I think it would boggle the mind if we knew just how many Americans and Canadians are without a pot to piss in or a window to throw it out of.

Educational Achievements in Contemporary Cuba

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Cuba's achievements in the field of education have been widely recognized by both critics and supporters of the Cuban Revolution. Since 1959, support for education at all levels—pre-school, primary, secondary, post-secondary, and adult—has been one of the highest priorities of the Cuban government. A 1998 UNESCO assessment of educational achievement in Latin America rated Cuban students far above their peers in other nations in the region -- Harvard Graduate School of Education

 

Meningitis B: Cuba's Got the Vaccine—Why Don't We?

by Robert Fortner, MD

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A vaccine with proven effectiveness against Meningitis B was developed in Cuba in the 1980s. Since then, 55 million doses have been administered in Cuba and other countries.  But not in the U.S.,where outbreaks still kill children. Dr. Robert Fortner, MD, wanted to find out why…

Cuba Ailing? Not Its Biomedical Industry Yale

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One does not frequently hear of Cuba when discussing today's integrating global economy. Cuba appears isolated, politically and economically, mainly due to trade restrictions placed on it by the US in the 1960's. No wonder, says the author of this Straits Times article, the world is surprised to learn of Cuba's flourishing biotech industry which has contributed much to the field of biotechnology and medicine. Since its establishment in the mid-1980's, the Cuban biotech sector has developed a meningitis B vaccine, and today exports the world's most effective hepatitis B vaccine to more than 30 countries. Recently, it developed the first synthetic vaccine for the prevention of pneumonia and meningitis, which is much cheaper than what is offered by Western pharmaceutical companies. Poised to provide anti-cancer therapies to the European market by 2008, Cuba is also eagerly looking to enter the western market, and many observers are cheering it on.

Yes, Cuba's healthcare is first world - and it's despite the blockade

The shortage of life-saving drugs makes the island's achievements all the more impressive

 

The Cuban Paradox 

Harvard School of Public Health

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Socio-economic development is typically measured by health indicators such as infant mortality and life expectancy at birth. However, in Cuba, a nation beset by severely limited resources and political tensions both internal and external, these health markers are essentially the same as those in the United States and other parts of the industrialized world. Cuba also boasts the highest rate of public health service in Latin America and has one of the highest physician-to-population ratios in the world. Alone remarkable for a developing country, these feats are even more extraordinary considering the context of a US embargo that's been in effect since 1961. Because its access to traditional sources of financing is seriously hindered by the sanctions, which until recently included all food and medicine, Cuba has received little foreign and humanitarian aid to maintain the vitality of its national programs. And herein lies the paradox of Cuba's health care system: because Cuba has so few resources, prevention has become the only affordable means of keeping its population healthy.

"I find Cuba's system to be very inspiring because it is so public health focused," says Tracy Rabin, who has made the Cuba trip twice. She traveled the first time as a student in the Department of Immunology and Infectious Diseases; this year she participated as a research associate and program manager for the Program on Ethical Issues in International Health Research in the Department of Population and International Health. Her impressions are not an illusion: despite the economic difficulties of recent years, spending on public health in Cuba has increased steadily, which reflects the political will to maintain successes achieved in this area. An August 1960 law established the Ministry of Public Health as the highest authority responsible for health care. The same year, the Rural Social Medical Service was created, allowing Cuba to place doctors and nurses in the country's remotest areas to bring medical attention to inhabitants there.

Viva La Revolucion!

Kindrid

The pictures of poverty in Haiti and Guatemala are irrelevant because Cuba did not have that level of poverty before the Revolution.

Kindrid

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Food insecure—At times during the year, these households were uncertain of having, or unable to acquire, enough food to meet the needs of all their members because they had insufficient money or other resources for food. Food-insecure households include those with low food security and very low food security.

  • 11.1 percent (13.0 million) of U.S. households were food insecure at some time during 2007.
  • Essentially unchanged from 10.9 percent in 2006.

Low food security—These food-insecure households obtained enough food to avoid substantially disrupting their eating patterns or reducing food intake by using a variety of coping strategies, such as eating less varied diets, participating in Federal food assistance programs, or getting emergency food from community food pantries.

  • 7.0 percent (8.3 million) of U.S. households had low food security in 2007.
  • Essentially unchanged from 6.9 percent in 2006.

 

http://www.ers.usda.gov/Briefing/FoodSecurity/stats_graphs.htm

Food insecurity does not even mean a family went hungry a single day of the year. It means that the family made food substitutions or received aid from government or private organizations. Under US definition, almost every Cuban but the elite are food insecure.

Kindrid

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If you want to keep repeating this stuff - go ahead. Talk among yourselves. But I've heard it all before. I've answered it all before. I could do this in my sleep. And I'm not the only one. 

 

My feeling about your opinions.

Kindrid

BTW, since Fidel brought up hunger maybe the Cubans should have stuck with Batista becuase Castro even admited that hunger did not exist in Cuba before the the Revolution:

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Castro himself admitted that while there was poverty, there was no economic crisis and no hunger in Cuba before the Revolution. (See Maurice Halperin: The Rise and Fall of Fidel Castro, University of California, 1972, pgs. 24, 25, 37

 http://www.cubaverdad.net/revolution.htm

Who is Maurice Halperin?

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Maurice Halperin, the now 88-year old first visited Cuba in 1935 and then was deported by the Bautista government, then he returned later as an adviser for the Castro government. Halperin gives a great insight into his view of Cuba of the past and the present.

http://www.cubaverdad.net/references/halperin.htm

Fidel

Kindrid wrote:

Food insecurity does not even mean a family went hungry a single day of the year. It means that the family made food substitutions or received aid from government or private organizations

Oh that's bafflegab, like some half-wit that says somewhere on the internet that US infant mortality rates are higher than Cuba's because more American women have premature babies with later in life due to pursuing careers. Harvard School of Public Health says it's bullshit, too, as weak babies and mothers are a result of malnutrition and lack of prenatal care - a more likely explanation. And, women pursuing careers later in life is not just a phenomenon in the U.S. - it's been happening in most western countries, dozens of which have socialized medicine and lower infant mortality rates than the U.S. The thinly veiled bullshit emanating from the USSA overlaps at some point, and this is one of those instances.

Report: 36 million Americans food insecure

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CHICAGO, Nov. 17 (UPI) -- More than 36 million Americans, including 12.4 million children, are food insecure, officials of a U.S. non-profit group said.

 

Feeding America, a U.S. hunger-relief organization, said the actual number of Americans forced to skip meals and survive without adequate nutrition is even greater than the report indicates because it is based on statistics from 2007.

"It is important to note that the U.S. Department of Agriculture numbers released today are 2007 figures and do not take into account the unprecedented economic crisis that our country is currently facing," Vicki Escarra, president of Feeding America said in a statement.

Attention all rightwing Americans and their Canadian mouthpieces in kind!:  The ideology - it's not working any better today than it didn't after 1929. In fact, it's the same tune the old cow died on, RIP.

 

Fidel

Kindrid wrote:

The pictures of poverty in Haiti and Guatemala are irrelevant because Cuba did not have that level of poverty before the Revolution.

More baloney. In Batista's time, they had like one or two hospitals for the rich and a handful of public schools. The U.S.-backed mafia regime in  Havana created a secret police "BRAC" on the CIA's suggestion that leftists were inciting rebellion among Cuba's young people and rural campesinos living in poverty. Tuberculosis was a problem among young Cubans, and the repressive mafia regime had no intention whatsoever of eradicating TB or poverty or low levels of literacy on the island.

Rural Cubans received about a fourth grade education - now they are able to go to university for free.  That's just not true in the U.S. sponsored shitholes in Central America and Haiti even today.

 And it's why African-American and Hispanic-American students unable to access the handful of mainly white medical colleges in America are applying for Cuban scholarships - six years of free medical school training in Cuba at no charge to U.S. plutocracy or American taxpayers. The only stipulation is that graduates return to the U.S. and practice in underserviced and non-serviced regions of America, many of which are without municipal governments and basic utilities let alone public health clinics since the Reagan-Crazy George I era.

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"If the poor in Britain or the United States turned out and voted for people who represented their interests, it would be a real democratic revolution," Benn said. "So they don't want it to happen, so [they are] keeping people hopeless and pessimistic.

"See, I think there are two ways in which people are controlled: first of all, frighten people, and secondly, demoralize them.... An educated, healthy, and confident nation is harder to govern, and I think there's an element in the thinking of some people - we don't want people to be educated, healthy, and confident because they would get out of control." Sir Tony Benn

Fidel

And we can be sure that Batista used some of his take from the mafia to fund education and libraries for the poor. Pfff! Yeah right! Pull the other one, it's got bells on.

50 years of Castroism

http://tinyurl.com/98egyw

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But what do we mean by poverty and misery in pre-revolutionary Cuban? We mean that: "The vast majority of the Cuban people ate malanga, which is something like a straight potato diet. Sugar cane was a second staple. Thus, they grew up stunted and subject to vitamin deficiency diseases. They lived in huts called BOHIS. No floor, just the bare earth, a roof made of thatch from the royal palm, much appreciated by all kinds of insects. Their clothes more often than not were patched rags; they went barefoot, they went without dental care, losing their teeth when they were still young. And they went without medical care".

The rapid transformation which took place in Cuba after January 1, 1959, was informed by two theses: First: "Unless and until the two ruling groups - the foreign and domestic capitalists - are forced to give up their power, property, and privilege, unless the economic and social structures are radically altered, nothing fundamental will be changed. The people will remain hungry" (Leo Huberman and Paul M. Sweezy). Second: "The key event in the Cuban Revolution was the capture of state power, through an armed struggle, by a people led by honest and resolute revolutionaries. All other developments followed from this singular act and Cuba's situation" (Edward Boorstein).

Illiteracy was wiped out in four years (1959 - 1962). In 1957, two years before the overthrow of the dictatorship, the population of Cuba was 6.4 million and "school enrollment was about 819,000 or roughly 12.8 per cent" of the population. In 1968, the population had risen to 8 million - an increase of 25 per cent; but school enrollment rose in the same period to 2,209,434 - an increase of almost 170 per cent.

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http://www.historyofcuba.com/

By late 1955 student riots and anti-Batista demonstration had become frequent. These were dealt with in the violent manner his military police had come to represent. Students attempting to march from the University of Havana were stopped and beaten by the police, and student leader José A. Echeverría had to be hospitalized. Another popular student leader was killed on December 10, leading to a funeral that became a gigantic political protest with a 5-minute nationwide work stoppage.

Instead of loosening his grip, Batista suspended constitutional guarantees and established tighter censorship of the media. His military police would patrol the streets and pick up anyone suspected of insurrection. By the end of 1955 they had grown more prone to violent acts of brutality and torture, with no fear of legal repercussions.

In March of 1956 Batista refused to consider a proposal calling for elections by the end of the year. He was confident that he could defeat any revolutionary attempt from the many factions who opposed him.

Batista continued to rule with his usually confident iron fist, even after the landing of the Granma in December of 1956 (which brought the Castro brothers back to Cuba along with Che Guevara and marked the beginning of the armed conflict).

Due to their continued opposition of the dictator, the University of Havana was temporarily closed on November 30 1956. (It would not re-open until early 1959, after a revolutionary victory.) But that did not end the flow of student blood, including Echeverría's, who was killed by police after a radio broadcast on March 13 1957.

Sounds like Cuban students werent too happy with the U.S.-backed mafia regime, Kindred.

DaveW

interesting piece in le Monde about how Obama's impact is playing out in Havana, esp. the rapid rise of an African American politician, unheard of  in Cuba where Blacks remain virtually invisible at the upper echelons of government and the military:

http://www.lemonde.fr/archives/article/2009/01/02/l-election-de-m-obama-ravive-le-debat-racial-a-la-havane_1137178_0.html

Summary paragraph:

Les partisans du régime associent encore la "manipulation du thème racial" à la "subversion contre-révolutionnaire". Esteban Morales Dominguez, professeur à l'université de La Havane, reconnaît que le long "silence" officiel, fondé sur la croyance que l'égalitarisme "réglerait les problèmes", "oubliait les terribles séquelles" héritées du passé. M. Morales pense néanmoins que "les Noirs sont chaque jour plus nombreux au pouvoir" et que "le reste se règle avec le temps". Une affirmation optimiste, alors qu'au bout d'un demi-siècle, seul Esteban Lazo partage le sommet du pouvoir, que le bureau politique compte 5 Noirs sur 24 membres, le Conseil d'Etat un tiers de Noirs et métis, et le Parlement cubain 19 % d'élus noirs.

 

or roughly:

Supporters of the régime still associate the "manipulation of the race  theme" with "counter-revolutionary subversion ". Esteban Morales Dominguez, a professor at the University of Havana, admitted that the long official "silence", based on the belief that egalitarianism "would settle the problem", "forgot the terrible inheritance" of the past.

Mr. Morales holds nonetheless that "Blacks in power are becoming more numerous all the time" and that "the rest will be resolved over time". An optimistic assertion, given that after half a century only Esteban Lazo has reached the top of the political pyramid while the Politburo has only 5 Blacks among its 24 members, the Council of State is just one third Black and Mestizo, and 19 per cent of members of parliament are Black deputies.

 

...........

Wesen ist was Gewesen ist

Fidel

DaveW wrote:

interesting piece in le Monde about how Obama's impact is playing out in Havana, esp. the rapid rise of an African American politician, unheard of  in Cuba where Blacks remain virtually invisible at the upper echelons of government and the military

And Cuba doesnt spend nearly the same amount of national income on military as does that national security state and largest exporter of terrorism to the world, the USSA.

And African-Americans will continue to rate the worst health statistics in America next to poverty-stricken indigenous Americans - highest unemployment rates - and be disproportionately represented in the largest incarcerated population in the world in America. The incarceration rate for blacks in gulag America today is about six times what it was in apartheid era South Africa. 

Viva La Revolucion!

Kindrid

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More baloney. In Batista's time, they had like one or two hospitals for the rich and a handful of public schools.

Ah, not true.

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By 1952, Cuba, as a republic, having rapidly advanced became number three in standard of living in Latin America. The Cuban workers were the third best paid in the world, and had advanced legal and social laws protecting them. Cuba had an extensive public education system open to all. In 1940, there were 30,000 primary classrooms with more than 34,000 teachers and an enrollment of 1,300,000 students, and more than 1,000 private schools of all denominations with more than 200,000 students. Cuba had an extensive system of HMOs dating from the prior century that flourished in republican times, that were extremely efficient and inexpensive, as well as free medical care for the poor at government hospitals.

http://www.amigospais-guaracabuya.org/oagaq001.php

Fidel

old_bolshie wrote:

I repeat-outside of a few show farms/potemkin villages rural Cubans live worse than most Canadian farm animals-this from someone who grew up up in a farm town.

You've never been to Buffalo Lake Alberta, or to any of the "Indian settlements" across Ontario where whole nations of people have been segregated on to tiny strips of land along Queeny's Highway. Pilgrims like yourself have never observed the thirdworld conditions in Northern Canada where there is no such thing as safe drinking water anywhere near abandoned mine settling ponds and wherever the guvmint and their corporate friends encouraged Canadians to live over the last 140 years or so.

Cuba's green revolution and example for the world

Suzuki says the neoliberal model for distribution of food around the world is most inefficient and wasteful. Former Minnesota governnor Jesse Ventura and a group of farmers visited Cuba to learn about organic and non-mechanized farming methods, and they were impressed with what they learned in Cuba.

DaveW

so:  faced with a difficult or uncomfortable fact, change the subject;

 conditions are difficult for many African Americans, BUT the US elected a black president, with no similar role on the horizon for Black Cubans

 maybe there are cultural conditions (ex. the old opposition betweem "Gallegos" and "Negritos" in Cuba) that formal egalitariansim does not affect 

as they say on term papers: compare and contrast

 

Kindrid

We get the same pattern from the Castro apologists and supporters:

  1. Mention anything bad about Cuba and bring up the United States.
  2. Make irrelevant comparisons to other nations
  3. Batista was bad so anything Cuba does now is fine

 

Fidel

Cubans do not reject the idea that there is racism in their country. Not like apartheid America still refuses to come to terms with in their own country. Racism exists in every country - that is a fact. But it's been said by leftists that Obama is just another cosmetic leader for the vicious empire. Like every other cosmetic leader of the American plutocracy, Obama's presidential candidacy and campaign was supported and funded

by billionaires and Wall Street types. It's not a democratic selection process by any means. His transition team was filled with hawks. Obama will maintain a revolving door between Wall Street and Washington. The same crooks responsible for this neoliberalized deregulation-induced collapse in U.S. banking and finance will be the same people responsible for fixing it. The foxes already have chicken feathers stuck between their fangs. The lizard people needed to put a human face on their continuing fascist agenda.

The largest threat to basic human rights in this hemisphere is the USSA. In fact, the largest threat to basic human rights on the island of Cuba is the US military and largest incarcerated population, an illegal gulag for torture and basic human rights violations at Guantanamo Bay. What we have today is the American inquisition to prop up a phony war on terror around the world. We know who the real terrorists are and representing the most serious threat to human rights. And it isnt Cuba, that long-time socialist thorn in the side of the vicious empire. Socialism in Cuba will outlast Obama and any more fake cosmetic leaders they might create as the sun sets on neoliberal capitalism.

Kindrid

BTW Fidel, your sources would not be viewed as objective by any reasonable impartial person:

 

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The book came out about six months later with the title Human Progress and Its Enemies. The fourth chapter of the six - chapter book is on Cuba and carries the title: The power of socialism: the case of Cuba.

So, the author just recycles the propaganda of the regime.

 

 

Fidel

My sources are impeccable. I've cited Harvard and Yale and Stanford U's, all American sources as well as some Canadian ones. GlobalResearch.ca is run by Professor Chossudovsky of Ottawa U and host of a number of independent Canadian and American academics and journalists. Kindred, you're so full of shit that your eyes must be a deep brown by now. ciao muchacha

Kindrid

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BY THE NUMBERS

Before we get into my own impressions from when I was a frequent visitor to the island in the early 1990s, let's look at the facts.

On the plus side, Cuba has a 99.8 percent adult literacy rate, one percent higher than Trinidad and Tobago's, and an infant mortality rate of six per 1,000 people, slightly lower than Chile's, according to the United Nations' 2008 Human Development Report. That makes it the country with the best adult literacy and infant mortality rates in the region.

But according to the U.N. 1957 Statistical Yearbook, Cuba already ranked among the four most advanced Latin American countries in literacy and caloric consumption rates that year, and had the lowest infant mortality in the region. In other words, Cuba has gone up three places in the literacy ranking, while retaining its status as the nation with the region's lowest infant mortality rates.

http://www.iri.org/newsarchive/2008/2008-12-14-News-MiamiHerald-Cuba.asp

I guess that extra 1 percent of literacy is worth the cost in loss of freedom and oppression. Congratulations Castro, you beat Trinidad and Tobago by a point. Good thing you had those people shot. It was worth it.

 

I tend to believe UN statistics over the propaganda of a totalitarian police state

 

 

Fidel

Kindrid wrote:

We get the same pattern from the Castro apologists and supporters:

  1. Mention anything bad about Cuba and bring up the United States.
  2. Make irrelevant comparisons to other nations
  3. Batista was bad so anything Cuba does now is fine

 

It's just that the typical Cuba pundits also happen to be prolific apologists for the vicious empire when probed a little too much on their second-hand opinions. And like yourself, they tend to point to the reams of disinformation emanating from the U.S. and funded by rightist  whacko extremists and lunatic right-wing fringe in general. The pre-packaged smelly bullshit wafting over the border from the US is not so unlike our own CD Howe and right-wing Vancouver make believe think tank publications except with a lot more money behind them. They have whole Joe Goebbels-like industries and governmental departments dedicated to propagandizing the public when not waging economic and other warfare against tiny Cuba as but one example of how they operate 

Kindrid

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'Obama Effect' Highlights Racism in Cuba

In the decades that followed, Castro’s vision of giving Cuban blacks equal opportunities was thwarted by the realities of race outside the island nation: Soviet and East European allies preferred white Cubans, and these were granted scholarships to study for advanced degrees throughout behind the Iron Curtain. The growing disparities between white Cubans and black Cubans remained a lingering problem throughout the 1970s and 1980s.

It was the official policy of the government to deny the existence of racism, arguing that Communist “egalitarianism” made discrimination based on race “an impossibility,” simply because it was incompatible with a socialist state. This was a polite fiction. As Alejandro De La Fuente wrote in his authoritative book, “A Nation for All: Race, Inequality, and Politics in Twentieth-Century Cuba,” (The University of North Carolina Press, 2000) the color of one’s skin determines the life one leads in Communist Cuba.

“(A) strong correlation between race, the regional distribution of the population, and the quality of the housing stock persisted through the 1980s,” De La Fuente wrote. “A traditional geography of race and poverty had not been dismantled, largely because of the government’s failure to provide adequate housing to the entire population. No neighborhood was racially exclusive—this was true, for the most part, in pre-Revolutionary Cuba also—but in the most dilapidated areas of the big cities, the proportion of blacks and mulattos was greater than that of whites.”

http://news.newamericamedia.org/news/view_article.html?article_id=7b4ef8e52790034e043a37d170243f0f

Kindrid

Oh, this paragraph is a good one from the article:

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 The European Union recently dispatched anthropologists to study racism in Cuba. Their findings were shocking: Not only was racism alive and well in the workers’ paradise, but it was systemic and institutional. Blacks were systematically excluded from positions that involved coming in contact with foreign tourists (where they could earn tips in hard currencies), they were relegated to poor housing, complained of the longest waits for healthcare, were excluded from managerial positions, received the lowest remittances from relatives abroad, and were five times more likely to be imprisoned.

http://news.newamericamedia.org/news/view_article.html?article_id=7b4ef8e52790034e043a37d170243f0f

 

Fidel

Kindrid wrote:

http://www.iri.org/newsarchive/2008/2008-12-14-News-MiamiHerald-Cuba.asp

I guess that extra 1 percent of literacy is worth the cost in loss of freedom and oppression. Congratulations Castro, you beat Trinidad and Tobago by a point. Good thing you had those people shot. It was worth it

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On the plus side, Cuba has a 99.8 percent adult literacy rate, one percent higher than Trinidad and Tobago's, and an infant mortality rate of six per 1,000 people, slightly lower than Chile's

Well for one thing, that IM rate for Cuba is of date. And Chile is still a shithole ruled by US-backed elites and former Pinochet fascists representing the rich.

If you've ever taken math and geography courses, you might realize that one percent diff in mortality rates is significant as far as medical professionals and economists are concerned. They just dont throw out one human being per every thousand births and cover it over with a null value or anything so careless. That would amount to murder by the state.

And Miami Herald? Why dont you save us the time and just quote  Gusanos themselves or even the CIA, fcs? I know two bit newspaper journalists in Florida writing for flag and country are more trustworthy than Yale and Harvard and Stanford medical officials and students' first hand accounts of Cuba, but you could try being a little more modest with your claims here. Mix it up a little and throw in a few non-Yanqui sources outside of that haven for Cuban exiles and CIA-funded Gusano terrorist groups operating out of Miami. And if you ever are down that way, beware of ex-Cubans selling all manner of things out of the trunks of cars. Youll be dealing with some ruthless mofos.

 

Kindrid

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And Chile is still a shithole ruled by US-backed elites and former Pinochet fascists representing the rich.

 

It is not a shithole. I have talked to plenty of travelers that spent months traveling throughout Latin America. When they reach Chile it is like leaving the developing world. It is like they are back in Western Europe.  You are aware that the current President of Chile is Michelle Bachelet was tortured under the Pinochet regime?

 

Kindrid

Fidel, I am totally aware there is a small army of academics occupying are universities that are nothing more than apologists and supports of the regime in Cuba. They publish a lot of pro-regime material. They have political motives; specifically a virulent hatred towards the United States. They don’t live in the real world. They never had to live in Cuba as a common Cuban.  

I have read enough from non-biased sources, travelers, open minded journalist, and from Cubans that live or have lived in Cuba to get a clear picture of life in the island. There is a reason why Cubans that fled the island have nothing but negative comments about the Cuban government. That is not true with say Mexicans. I would dare not slander the president of Mexico in a group of Mexican Americans. I would dare not sing the praises of Fidel Castro in a group of Cuban Americans. Both actions would probably result in a lot of displayed anger. That is the difference.

Kindrid

BTW, referring to an entire ethnic community as worms is racist and offensive.  

Fidel

Kindrid wrote:
There is a reason why Cubans that fled the island have nothing but negative comments about the Cuban government. That is not true with say Mexicans.

That's not true. I've listened to some Mexicans speak very lowly of the corruption and grinding poverty in sunny Maico. Mexico will be sending thousands of their military people to the US school of the Americas for training in the black art of torture and terrorism to be used against their own people when called upon by their US-backed stooge leaders.

And I doubt youve met some of the real talent from Cuba, many who went from Cuba to the U.S. during the boatlift in 1980s and will have had genetic offspring by now. Some of those people are ruthless motherfuckers and many were never put in prison by the American police and FBI where they should have been deposited way back when. The FBI actually fumbled the ball on alerts from Castro's people twice in the last century that criminal types were being given a one-way ticket to Miami - once in 1960's when Fidel alerted the FBI to Mayer Lansky, Santos Traficante and several more mafia crime bosses' state-sanctioned boat ride to Miami, and then again in 1980 with the Mariel boatlift.

Kindrid

In a free society people have the freedom to act irresponsible. That leads to increased health problems and increased infant mortality.Cuba also has a higher rate of deaths during pregnancy and a high suicide rate. Funny, how some only want to highlight the positive.

Unionist

Kindrid wrote:
In a free society people have the freedom to act irresponsible.

If I were in charge, I would ban the irresponsible use of adverbs.

Kindrid

Quote:
Mexico will be sending thousands of their military people to the US school of the Americas for training in the black art of torture and terrorism to be used against their own people when called upon by their US-backed stooge leaders.

It is no longer called the School of America’s. It is now called The  Western Hemisphere Institute for Security Cooperation (WHINSEC).Allegation of torture stem from a single pamphlet around 30 year ago that instructed soldiers on interrogation techniques for insurgents. That pamphlet has not been used  for decades. Today, the school emphasis human rights and trains officers from the Western Hemisphere in professionalism. Having a professional military schooled in human rights is a benefit for all nations. WHINSEC is a good program.

 

Cueball Cueball's picture

You studied there?

Kindrid

Quote:
Democracy, Ethics and Human Rights Program.  The Democracy, Ethics and Human Rights Program in the Institute fulfills the congressionally-mandated mission of promoting understanding and respect for democratic values and institutions, human rights, the rule of law, due process and civilian control of a nation’s armed forces.  A comprehensive three-hour class provides an overview of U.S. democracy and the traditions, customs and practices common to most U.S. citizens.  A minimum of eight hours of training in the Human Rights Class creates a culture of respect for human rights.  Offered at the beginning of each course, these classes demonstrate how deeply embedded U.S. values, respect for the rule of law and our constitutional structure have maintained a strong democracy and uninterrupted civilian control of the military throughout our history.  At the opening of the course, the commandant specifically addresses the need for ethical behavior, and during each course, the institute chaplain presents a two-hour class on ethics.

https://www.infantry.army.mil/WHINSEC/democracy.asp?id=95

Kindrid

Quote:
You studied there?[

No. Did you?

Fidel

That sounds like warmed over cold war era bullshit to me. What's your source on this damning information, the Miami Herald?

They used to say the same things about Sweden, beginning from a time when Sweden was among the first countries to actually report detailed health statistics.

I've never observed such a concerted effort to disinform babblers about Cuba and quoting so many flakey and highly questionable news sources. Youve posted so much smelly bullshit about CUba that I think you're beginning to believe it yourself.

Cueball Cueball's picture

Kindrid wrote:

Quote:
You studied there?[

No. Did you?

No. I am wondering if your assertion that "it is a good program" is based on personal knowledge, or if you are just reading their PR material?

Do you have any outside confirmation of your statement, other than the institutions on PR?  

From reading this interview with Lyndie England, I don't even get the sense that the US Army teaches ethics to its own personnel, and I'd hate to think how that translates into Spanish...

Unionist

Cueball wrote:


From reading this interview with Lyndie England, I don't even get the sense that the US Army teaches ethics to its own personnel, and I'd hate to think how that translates into Spanish...

Laughing

Now I know where he learned to use adverbs...

Fidel

Kindrid wrote:

Quote:
Mexico will be sending thousands of their military people to the US school of the Americas for training in the black art of torture and terrorism to be used against their own people when called upon by their US-backed stooge leaders.

It is no longer called the School of America’s. It is now called The  Western Hemisphere Institute for Security Cooperation (WHINSEC).Allegation of torture stem from a single pamphlet around 30 year ago that instructed soldiers on interrogation techniques for insurgents. That pamphlet has not been used  for decades. Today, the school emphasis human rights and trains officers from the Western Hemisphere in professionalism. Having a professional military schooled in human rights is a benefit for all nations. WHINSEC is a good program.

Well now you're a confirmed fucktard who doesnt know his ass from a hole in the ground. What do you think about that, shitforbrains? 

Declassified US Army and CIA torture training manuals feast your eyes, pinhead

Quote:
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Manuals used by the U.S. Army's School of the Americas between 1982 and 1991 appeared to condone executions, beatings and other human rights abuses, the Pentagon said in a disclosure that prompted renewed calls for the school's closure.

The Pentagon on Friday disclosed English translations of portions of seven training manuals it said were pulled from use in 1991 by then-Defense Secretary Dick Cheney. He determined that the language violated U.S. policy. At the time, the Pentagon conducted a review of the training materials and reported the findings to Congress in closed briefings.

"The review found that about two dozen isolated phrases, sentences or short passages, out of 1,100 pages in six of the manuals, were objectionable or dubious," a Pentagon statement said, "(and) appeared to condone practices violating U.S. policy."

The phrases, including references to "eliminating potential rivals" to "obtaining information involuntarily" to the "neutralization" of people, were taken out of context, the statement said.

 

They basically reconstructed Himler's SS after the war to run the spy ops out of West Germany for them. Gladio was a story that broke in 1991 but was paid little attention by the "Liberal" news media

Cueball Cueball's picture

Go post at the star or something....

Fidel

Quote:

WHAT IS THE SOA?

School of the Americas (SOA), in 2001 renamed the “Western Hemisphere Institute for Security Cooperation,” is a combat training school for Latin American soldiers, located at Fort Benning, Georgia.

Initially established in Panama in 1946, it was kicked out of that country in 1984 under the terms of the Panama Canal Treaty. Former Panamanian President, Jorge Illueca, stated that the School of the Americas was the “biggest base for destabilization in Latin America.” The SOA, frequently dubbed the “School of Assassins,” has left a trail of blood and suffering in every country where its graduates have returned.

Over its 59 years, the SOA has trained over 60,000 Latin American soldiers in counterinsurgency techniques, sniper training, commando and psychological warfare, military intelligence and interrogation tactics. These graduates have consistently used their skills to wage a war against their own people. Among those targeted by SOA graduates are educators, union organizers, religious workers, student leaders, and others who work for the rights of the poor. Hundreds of thousands of Latin Americans have been tortured, raped, assassinated, “disappeared,” massacred, and forced into refugee by those trained at the School of Assassins.

Scum o the earth cucarachas. May their blood scream for all eternity

 

 

Kindrid

Quote:
said were pulled from use in 1991 by
then-Defense Secretary Dick Cheney. He determined that the language
violated U.S. policy. At the time, the Pentagon conducted a review of
the training materials and reported the findings to Congress in closed
briefings.

Kindrid

So, from your own source the problem went away in 1991.

Do you have a shred of evidence that the problem continued? Do you
realize the entire program was changed years ago?

Also, it is ridiculous to compare the acts of a few low
ranking soldiers to the training at a highly professional school
reserved for officers.

Fidel

Kindrid wrote:

Quote:

So, from your own source the problem went away in 1991.

What do you think?

COLOMBIAN ARMY COMMANDERS FIRED FOR KILLINGS RECEIVED U.S. TRAINING AND ASSISTANCE 2008

 

PRISONER ABUSE: PATTERNS FROM THE PAST

Quote:

Washington D.C. May 12, 2004: CIA interrogation manuals written in the 1960s and 1980s described "coercive techniques" such as those used to mistreat detainees at the Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq, according to the declassified documents posted today by the National Security Archive. The Archive also posted a secret 1992 report written for then Secretary of Defense Richard Cheney warning that U.S. Army intelligence manuals that incorporated the earlier work of the CIA for training Latin American military officers in interrogation and counterintelligence techniques contained "offensive and objectionable material" that "undermines U.S. credibility, and could result in significant embarrassment."

What credibility would Lon Cheney Jr be talking about? You see, this is how far out of touch these jokers have become, like Cheney who's been in there like a dirty shirt and with various designated embedded bureaucratic roles since the 1970's.

Quote:
Do you have a shred of evidence that the problem continued? Do you realize the entire program was changed years ago?

 Also, it is ridiculous to compare the acts of a few low ranking soldiers to the training at a highly professional school reserved for officers.

Is this an act? I dont believe someone could be this "naive" all on your own. Youre so naive that I suspect youre actually twins, Kindrid I & II? Can your mama tell yez apart?  

old_bolshie

Quote:
Chile is still a shithole ruled by US-backed elites and former Pinochet fascists representing the rich.

More Bee Ess from someone who's never been to South America-in fact Chile is a prosperous place and Michelle Bachelet is a darling of leftists everyhwere being a former political prisoner of the Pinochet regime.

Fidel

old_bolshie wrote:

Quote:
Chile is still a shithole ruled by US-backed elites and former Pinochet fascists representing the rich.

More Bee Ess from someone who's never been to South America-in fact Chile is a prosperous place and Michelle Bachelet is a darling of leftists everyhwere being a former political prisoner of the Pinochet regime.

What an incredible memory you have of the fascist years. Good for you, ol' Bullshie. Now picture a number of that old fascist bastard's henchmen and bureaucrats who were in place at the time of desaparecidos are still there in the background, and those rich to whom the national income was shovelled to in the Chile con Friedman years still in control of too much of the economy. Pinochet should have been strung up by his nuts, and sometime later, lined up against a cement wall at dawn no blindfold.

old_bolshie

Quote:
Pinochet should have been strung up by his nuts, and sometime later, lined up against a cement wall at dawn no blindfold

Pinochet hasn't meant anything to Chileans for the best part of 20 years now since you've never been to Chile you wouldn't know that would you?

 The country has been/is being transformed and the memories of dinosaurs like you are just that.

 Do a search here for Michelle Bacholet and you'll see the jubilation/screen slobber of the righteous (there's an ironic phrase in this place) when she was elected.

 Why is it that you're so ignorant anyway?

old_bolshie

Fidel wrote:

Here, read this. It's difficult to keep up with how little you know about everything in general. Silly ol' bullshie.

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Can't stay organised can't spell because either!!

Fidel

Tell that to the socialist politicians, some of whom were family members of the desaparecidos and who had to sit across the floor from the old bastard and his underlings in parliament for a few years after the criminal regime finally did hold elections.

Here, read this. It's difficult to keep up with how little you know about everything in general. Silly ol' bullshie.

Fidel

Here is the actual link to the article from July '08

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2008/jul2008/chil-j08.shtml

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