War in Syria 3

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oldgoat

Boze: regarding your post 430 and those immediatly prior, it is a sexist and offensive term.  I swear pretty effectively, and I'm not going to drop over like a Tennessee fainting goat over it, but I would strongly encourage an articulate person such as yourself to do better.

6079_Smith_W

NDPP wrote:

Quote:

Blaming Russia kills several birds with one stone. It continues the propaganda war against a country that will not knuckle under and accept American hegemony. The hyper-Russophobia was also an attempt to make the unpalatable and incompetent Hillary Clinton more appealing. And its continuation is being used by Democrats and Republicans to stop the incoming president from having any chance to improve relations with that country or curtail the regime change doctrine.

The war party never sleeps."

Nor its Canadian 'progressive' supporters.

Well that is kind of the crux of it, NDPP. Not that the U.S. doesn't conduct war, but denying that Russia does the same, and is, in degree if not scale, just as bad. That would be one big difference between western media and pro-Russian media.

If people like Bartlett wanted to point out that the U.S. is mired in this war, has ulterior motives, and has made some things worse and that some of the participants are jihadists, that would be easy to do, and would require no lies at all. Even old Gwynne pointed that out - repeatedly - without being blackballed by the media, or disappeared.

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/the-us-and-russia-agree-on-syria.aspx?p...

And clearly the Independent was able to do it without being shuttered or having their bank account frozen. For that matter, so was RT, when they kept it to that. When they started lying about other media reporting on Syria they got sanctioned:

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2015/sep/21/rt-sanctioned-over-series-...

This isn't about pointing out U.S. crimes and interference. It is about pretending that Russia is not committing war crimes in its air bombing campaign, using the flimsiest of lies. Because of course, that strategy has been shown to work. So yes, there is a reason why it is an argument about faking stories rather than lack of reliable sources, and bias.

So I guess that's my question in response. Why does this desire to shield Russia from criticism extend to peddling outright lies?

And on that, I am really curious as to how long this "Give Trump a chance" narrative is going to string out.

 

 

Mobo2000

The Guardian article above is interesting.   I don't see any proof of RT "outright lies" in there.   It reads like a credibility squabble between competing media companies.

RT was censured because:

1. RT claimed that the BBC staged (or faked) a chemical weapons attack by the Assad regime.   The Guardian article present it as established fact that the Assad regime used chemical weapons.

2. RT claimed a "massive public investigation" into the BBC 's reporting of a chemical attack, when in actuallity there was only a complaint from a viewer.

3. RT claimed the BBC unfairly edited an interview with a doctor.  RT was censured because they did not present the allegations fairly" or give the BBC a chance to respond.

4. RT did a program alleging the Ukrainian government was killing civilians.   They did not give the Ukrainian government adequate time to reply, according to Ofcom, although they did show a statement from the government at the end of the program. 

And the kicker:

Ofcom did not consider the accuracy of the claims made in the (RT) Truthseeker programmes as the show is considered current affairs rather than news programming

 

The way mainstream western media frames world events, selectively omits and outright lies for the purpose of drumming up support for unilateral military action or regime change makes RT's sins against "fair and balanced" journalism look like peanuts.

 

 

 

 

Mobo2000

"Not that the U.S. doesn't conduct war, but denying that Russia does the same, and is, in degree if not scale, just as bad. That would be one big difference between western media and pro-Russian media."

Smith, why the contrast between "western media" and "pro-Russian" media?   Would you agree it would be more fair to say "pro-western" media and "pro-Russian" media?   

 

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

Aleppo liberated, country-wide ceasefire now possible – Russian defense minister

Quote:
“The operation conducted on your order involved tight contact with our colleagues from Turkey and Iran,” Russian Defense Minister Sergey Shoigu reported to President Vladimir Putin on Friday. “The next phase should follow. I believe we are on the verge of reaching an agreement on a full ceasefire in the territory of Syria.

Russian President V.V. Putin: "“We will continue our work on a permanent reconciliation together with our partners in Iran, Turkey, of course the Syrian leadership, other regional nations and all states interested in such an outcome ..."
 

This last addition is, undoubtedly, a direct reference to the obstructionist US regime - and its bumbling satellites like Canada - who prolonged the conflict by training, funding, and giving loving, generous support to the jihadists - who played their role to the hilt by making sure that the siege of the terrorists in Aleppo would take as many civilian lives as possible.

Well done, Satan and your minions. But you still lost.

Oh, and just before the whole story goes down the rabbit hole of forget in the Western MSM ...

Quote:
The Russian military is currently involved in minesweeping the liberated areas, providing humanitarian aid to returning residents, and restoring basic utilities, the minister added. He lamented that some humanitarian organizations, which criticized Russia for blocking aid deliveries while fighting continued in Aleppo, are not eager to provide relief now, when it is safe.

“There is every opportunity today to allow in humanitarian convoys, which have been discussed so much,” Shoigu said. “We see the opportunities, but we don’t see those willing to deliver.

Noisy denunciation of those actually doing something accompanied by dead silence in terms of help. Really puts the "human" in humanitarian.

Stinking Western regimes. You were not able to stop the erection of a Christmas tree in Aleppo's central square, though, were you?

.................................................................................

Russian Defense Minister Sergey Shoigu: “The next phase should follow. I believe we are on the verge of reaching an agreement on a full ceasefire in the territory of Syria."

Merry Christmas and God Bless the free Syrian Arab Republic!!

6079_Smith_W

Claiming a "massive public investigation" is a lie, Mobo.

And I used the terms for a pretty specific reason, and not just because "western" is a far more nebulous term than "Russian". Not all western media have the same bias. But when I speak of "pro-Russian", I am talking about the bias against any criticism.

Two of the articles I posted were from so-called western media, but weren't pro-western at all.

 

 

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

ISIS head-choppers were involved in a battle with Turkish troops in Syria. The result ... was horrifying.

Quote:
Yesterday, a contingent of the Turkish army were slaughtered by ISIS. Two men were captured and burnt alive in one of the most gruesome ISIS videos yet.

WARNING: graphic video.

Turkey and Jordan are Continuing to let Syria down.

Mobo2000

Smith:   Which article wasn't pro-western?  This one?

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/the-us-and-russia-agree-on-syria.aspx?p...

"The Obama administration fell into this now obviously hopeless strategy back in the days of the “Arab Spring” in 2010-11. Like most people, Obama was convinced that the al-Assad regime would fall quickly, and that the government that replaced him would be better both for American interests and for the Syrian people. It was, after all, a brutal and corrupt regime. It still is."

"The Obama administration has at least learned from its mistakes, and this de facto U.S.-Russian alliance may actually have the power to weaken the Islamist forces drastically and impose a real cease-fire on everybody else. Syria will not be reunited under al-Assad or anybody else, but at least most of the killing would stop."

The US "fell into" it's strategy?  

The overwhelmin consensus of western media is that US actions are, in part at least, motivated by humanitarian concerns.   The more critical will conceed the US does things out of its own interest, and uses the human rights abuses of it's targets as a way to sell the war to the public.  To our media, failed US interventions are mistakes made out of an excess of humanitarianism.   These views are pro-western. 

Find me or point me to an article in mainstream western media that takes the position that the US routinely, regularly, and without hestitation uses violence to get it's way in the world with no concern for human rights or national sovereignty?  I'd be happy with one that even speculated on US motives  -- breaking up Syria, destabilizing Iran, etc.

I have looked for them myself, not trying to get you to do my work for me :)

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

OK, but you can skip some of that altogether.  Statements by the US regime that "Assad Must Go", over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again from a whole range of their spokespersons shows, very strongly, what their aim was ... independent of any "support" for humanitarian concerns.

I note that, bearing in mind that the US regime now has a habit of the State Department, the White House, the Pentagon, and other authorities contradicting each other, sometimes in the same day. My view is that this is not a "mistake" but a strategy - bearing in mind that the Clintonite neo-cons in the Obama regime completely took over the foreign policy desk.  The role of John Kerry here, regarding US intentions in Syria, is instructive. Think of the mess someone would make when they can't decide to defecate or "get off the pot". Ug-lee! And I haven't mentioned the CIA - whose role recently must figure in the mix.

Now that the US barbarians are being excluded from arranging the cessation of hostilities, I expect solutions to drop like fresh fruit. Note the optimistic comments by the Russian Minister of Defense in the last day or so.

This will show, IMHO, just what the US role has been. Exclude them, and the problems begin to be solved. That's pretty powerful "evidence".

6079_Smith_W

Well if you are looking to dictate it yourself, that is another matter, but I guess our respective definitons of "pro" as as different as our definitons of "lie".

Edzell Edzell's picture

ikosmos wrote:
Think of the mess someone would make when they can't decide to defecate or "get off the pot".
Thanks - but no, thanks.

NDPP

The Liberation of Aleppo

http://twitter.com/timand2037/status/812115670158614528

 

Aleppo Locals Celebrate Complete Liberation From Militants

https://youtu.be/yU0a79sKGFE

"Residents of the Syrian city of Aleppo have flooded the streets, celebrating the city's liberation."

 

Former UK Ambassador to Syria Debunks Aleppo Propaganda

https://youtu.be/ZtFtofShy5s

"It's grotesque. When are we going to smell the coffee. The demonization of the regime has been taken to ridiculous lengths."

 

On Ken Roth & Human Rights Watch

https://twitter.com/MaxBlumenthal/status/812030790905249792

"I will be dedicating this thread to show you how most commentators on Syria have no clue what they are talking about..."

ikosmos ikosmos's picture
NDPP

Russian Military Plane With 91 On Board Crashes On Route To Syria (UPDATES)

https://www.rt.com/news/371627-russia-military-plane-missing/

"The crash happened when the plane was ascending and the crew didn't signal anything was wrong..."

 

US 'Protects' Nusra Terrorists, 'Punishes' Moscow For Assad Support - Russian FM

https://www.rt.com/news/371608-ua-protects-nusra-punishes-moscow/

"Moscow says that the US effectively 'protects the Jabhat al Nusra terrorist group [now Jabhat Fatah al Sham] which is nothing else but a branch of Al Qaeda, which carried out the most gruesome terrorist acts in US history.' 

The Russian Foreign Ministry said that the White House 'apparently forgot that according to American law, support for terrorists is a severe, criminally liable offense.'

'If you and I gave money, weapons or support to Al Qaeda or ISIS, we would be thrown in jail. Yet the US government has been violating this law for years, quietly supporting allies and partners of Al Qaeda, ISIL, Jabhat Fateh al Sham and other terrorist groups,' the Democrat Tulsi Gabbard argued.

During her statement in the House of Representatives, Gabbard said the CIA provided weapons and financial help to terrorist groups via states like Saudi Arabia, Turkey and Qatar."

NDPP

Rania Khalek on Syria

https://twitter.com/RaniaKhalek/status/812422799356731392

"Western-backed Jihadist rebels summarily executed over 100 hostages before leaving east Aleppo. Is the UN gonna demand that the US and Iraqi forces provide ISIS with transportation to areas of their choosing? Just wondering

If you're confused about Syria it's because there's millions of dollars being poured into propaganda to sanitize violent western-backed jihadists. That's why anyone who attempts to question the rebel narrative is immediately smeared and silenced, like me and countless others..."

NDPP

and then safely fled the scene and any accountability on busses provided, largely as a result of the hue and cry of the Western liberal imperialist lobby, which is again complicit, like Libya and Ukraine, in the making of a massive and monstrous international crime. Like the terrorists they supported, they too will now safely flee accountability and await the next dog-whistle for their services from The Guardian etc..

iyraste1313

Thanks for these sentiments...hopefully we will be around to make sure they do not safely flee accountability...let us not forget! document who they are!

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

""Western-backed Jihadist rebels summarily executed over 100 hostages before leaving east Aleppo."

They just found this. You know. After the SAA and their allies ... delaying the final liberation of Aleppo, partly due to alleged humanitarian concerns of the Western regimes. The same regimes that noisily denounced Russia, etc., for fictitious killings and bombings. Meanwhile, the stinking jihadist proxies were butchering civilians like animals in a slaughter house.

Charming. eta - You think it's terrible what the Western regimes are doing and then you discover more, horrific atrocities by their jihadist pals.

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

Mass graves of tortured civilians found in Aleppo – Russian MoD

And there you have it - the real reason the brutal NATO & allied regimes and their lickspittle MSM have less and less interest in "reporting" on Syria and Aleppo.

Quote:
Mass graves with dozens of bodies of civilians subjected to brutal torture have been discovered in Aleppo neighborhoods left by militants, the Russian Defense Ministry said Monday.

That's the "moderate" head-choppers.

Quote:
Many of the corpses were found with missing body parts, and most had gunshot wounds to the head, according to a statement by Russian Defense Ministry spokesman Major-General Igor Konashenkov.

“The completion of a uniquely large-scale humanitarian operation by the Russian Center for Reconciliation in Aleppo will destroy many of the myths that have been fed to the world by Western politicians,” Konashenkov said in a statement. “The results of only an initial survey of Aleppo neighborhoods abandoned by the so-called ‘opposition’ will shock many.”

In addition to the massacres on militant-held territory, the area had been extensively mined: streets, cars, the entrances to buildings and even children’s toys had been booby-trapped....

The Russian military is currently involved in minesweeping the liberated areas and providing humanitarian aid to returning residents. On Friday, a Russian military police battalion arrived to help maintain security.

swallow swallow's picture

ikosmos wrote:

Mass graves of tortured civilians found in Aleppo – Russian MoD

And there you have it - the real reason the brutal NATO & allied regimes and their lickspittle MSM have less and less interest in "reporting" on Syria and Aleppo.

So little interest that the story is reported in [url=http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/mass-graves-discovered-in-aleppo-bodies-sho... CBC[/url] and many other lickspittle media outlets. 

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

OK, good point, but the Ceeb is still quoting that fucking SOHR. Send a goddam reporter to Aleppo, you sons of bitches. I dare you.

eta: And tell the truth!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Timebandit Timebandit's picture

They did. Assad gov't let them near but not in and they respected the boundaries set. http://newsinteractives.cbc.ca/longform/city-under-siege-aleppo-syria-ci...

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Timebandit wrote:

They did. Assad gov't let them near but not in and they respected the boundaries set. http://newsinteractives.cbc.ca/longform/city-under-siege-aleppo-syria-ci...

That article is from before the liberation of East Aleppo and the discovery of mass graves. Other news agencies are on the ground with camera crews. Has the CBC even tried to cover the latest news? 

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

swallow wrote:

ikosmos wrote:

Mass graves of tortured civilians found in Aleppo – Russian MoD

And there you have it - the real reason the brutal NATO & allied regimes and their lickspittle MSM have less and less interest in "reporting" on Syria and Aleppo.

So little interest that the story is reported in [url=http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/mass-graves-discovered-in-aleppo-bodies-sho... CBC[/url] and many other lickspittle media outlets. 

Great state media reporting. The rest of the world is reporting these masacres but don't worry everyone does it.

Quote:

While the Syrian war is now largely fought with mortars, tanks, and air power, death has come at close quarters as well. Human rights observers and the media have recorded numerous examples of massacres and organized torture, perpetrated by the government, opposition, and the Islamic State group.

It's also good to get the full feel for who was in East Aleppo. 

Quote:

The rebel withdrawal from east Aleppo last week marked Assad's biggest victory since Syria's crisis began in 2011.

So the article opens up with an unsubstantiated claim and ends with all the potential perpetrators being called "rebels."

Strange contrast in language from the recent articles where sources were alleging genocide.  The slant is always the key. 

Rev Pesky

Here's the view of Dr. Tim Anderson, senior lecturer at Sydney University, He's written a book entitled "The Dirty War on Syria: Washington, Regime Change and Resistance"

The link is to an interview with him.

The Dirty War on Syria

Quote:
“It’s been disturbing, really, to see how many people, including I should say people on the left, liberal left people in western countries, who are captured by this, they can’t seem to find their way out of it.”

The quote refers to the propaganda that has captured many of the left, who, as he says, have been lied to many times in the past, but still can't seem to accept that they're being lied to again.

Here's a couple of short reviews of Anderson's book:

Quote:

Professor Anderson demonstrates unequivocally through carefully documented research that America’s “Moderate Opposition” are bona fide Al Qaeda affiliated terrorists created and protected by the US and its allies, recruited  and trained by Saudi Arabia, Turkey, in liaison with Washington and Brussels.

Through careful analysis, professor Anderson reveals the “unspoken truth”: the “war on terrorism” is fake, the United States is a “State sponsor of terrorism” involved in a criminal undertaking. - Michel Chossudovsky, Director of the Centre for Research on Globalization, Professor of Economics (Emeritus), University of Ottawa.

 

Anderson’s excellent book is required reading for those wanting to know the true story of the imperialist proxy war waged on Syria by the U.S. and its Western and Middle Eastern puppet states. This account could also be titled “How to Destroy a Country and Lie About it”. Of course Syria is only one in a long line of countries destroyed by Washington in the Middle East and all over the Global South for more than a century.

Anderson’s analysis is particularly useful for dissecting the propaganda war waged by the U.S. to hide its active support for the vicious Islamic fundamentalists it is using in Syria. In spreading this propaganda the U.S. has been aided not only by the West’s mainstream press but also by its prominent so-called human rights organizations. - Asad Ismi, International Affairs Correspondent for The Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives Monitor.

I haven't yet seen the book - it is very recently published - but I certainly recommend listening to the interview. After hearing Dr. Anderson, I would think most would want to at least have a look at his book.

swallow swallow's picture

kropotkin1951 wrote:

swallow wrote:

ikosmos wrote:

Mass graves of tortured civilians found in Aleppo – Russian MoD

And there you have it - the real reason the brutal NATO & allied regimes and their lickspittle MSM have less and less interest in "reporting" on Syria and Aleppo.

So little interest that the story is reported in [url=http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/mass-graves-discovered-in-aleppo-bodies-sho... CBC[/url] and many other lickspittle media outlets. 

Great state media reporting. The rest of the world is reporting these masacres but don't worry everyone does it.

I don't follow your point? Ikosmos was concerned that the "lickspittle media" was ignoring the (extremely serious) Russian reports of mass graves - I sinply linked one of many Western media reports on it. Plenty of reports from non-state media available via a quick google news search, if you prefer.

I'm not sure who you think is saying "don't worry everyone does it"? 

6079_Smith_W

ikosmos wrote:

OK, good point, but the Ceeb is still quoting that fucking SOHR. Send a goddam reporter to Aleppo.....

Hey ikosmos, is it too fucking much to ask you to get it through your skull to use curse words that don't in some way insult women?

I know you seem to be able to lard all kinds of other purple prose on, so I expect you have other options to choose from.

I must say, I don't see the attraction, or the point.

Never mind that many people who work at the CBC are themselves women, so they aren't sons of anything.

What is this, 1950?

 

 

 

NDPP

fyi Smith, SOHR=Syrian Observatory on Human Rights - which is some guy in his basement in England,  relentlessly quoted by western msm fake news outlets to buttress the gobbledygook on Syria so popular with you and other liberal imperialists here and elsewhere.

Rev Pesky

6079_Smith_W wrote:

ikosmos wrote:

OK, good point, but the Ceeb is still quoting that fucking SOHR. Send a goddam reporter to Aleppo.....

Hey ikosmos, is it too fucking much to ask you to get it through your skull to use curse words that don't in some way insult women?

I know you seem to be able to lard all kinds of other purple prose on, so I expect you have other options to choose from.

I must say, I don't see the attraction, or the point.

Never mind that many people who work at the CBC are themselves women, so they aren't sons of anything.

What is this, 1950?

You need to brush up on your understanding of good ole Anglo-Saxonisms. The 'son of a bitch' was referring not to a woman, but a female dog. So the receiver of said phrase was being referred to as a son of a female dog. It had nothing to do with human females.

Quote:
"son of a bitch" Also, SOB ; son of a gun. A mean, disagreeable individual, as in He was regarded as the worst son of a bitch in the industry, or He ran out on her? What an SOB, or He's a real son of a gun when it comes to owing you money. The first of these terms, calling a man the son of a female dog, dates from the early 1300s and is considered vulgar enough to have given rise to the two variants, both euphemisms.

6079_Smith_W

Oh, I had no idea. So it is a slur against someone by calling his mother a dog? I suppose that makes it not attacking women at all.

Again, Rev. I am not making these up. And if I seem a bit picky about it it is not just that these are ongstanding rules of respect that people have been called on in the past, but that it is a surprise to see the same person repeat it within a couple of days and not seem to get it. And that it is so appallingly dumb

 

6079_Smith_W

NDPP wrote:

fyi Smith, SOHR=Syrian Observatory on Human Rights - which is some guy in his basement in England,  relentlessly quoted by western msm fake news outlets to buttress the gobbledygook on Syria so popular with you and other liberal imperialists here and elsewhere.

That's nice. So because someone had to flee his country because he might wind up in jail for the fourth time, or worse, you want to undermine his reputation rather than look at how he does gather information. 

http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-syria-idUKTRE7B71XG20111208

No surprise. RT also has no problem gloating and attacking him over the fact that he cannot go home. No mention of his time in jail, or the threats and attacks on his family still there, of course.

https://www.rt.com/news/317813-sohr-visit-syria-long/

 

 

 

NDPP

Exposed: Syrian Human Rights Front is EU-Funded Fraud

http://landdestroyer.blogspot.ca/2013/04/exposed-syrian-human-rights-fro...

"NYT admits fraudulent Syrian human rights group is UK-based 'one-man-band' funded by EU and one other 'European country...One could not fathom a more unreliable, compromised, biased source of information, yet for the past two years his 'Observatory' has served as the sole fource of information for the endless torrent of propaganda emanating from the Western media. Abdel Rahman is not a 'human-rights activist'..."

I know you are in witch-hunting mode for him, but will you be apologizing to ikosmos for your false allegations above?

6079_Smith_W

What on earth are you talking about, NDPP?

And you are the one who started going after him because he was forced to flee the country, not me.

sherpa-finn

NDPP wrote:

fyi Smith, SOHR=Syrian Observatory on Human Rights - which is some guy in his basement in England,  relentlessly quoted by western msm fake news outlets to buttress the gobbledygook on Syria so popular with you and other liberal imperialists here and elsewhere.

So this activist in Syria gets chased out of his home country by a brutal dictator and takes refuge in the UK where he is concerned by the lack of coverage by the media of the rebellion. And the fact that travel restrictions on journalists means that that the little information that is coming out is mainly through Syrian Gov't channels.

So, using the magic of the cell phones and social media, he assembles a nework of 200 or so friends and fellow activists still in Syria to provide reporst from the ground on what is actually happening. Needless to say, the Syrian Gov't, its allies and associated toadies are horrified that alternative news is now coming out from behind the supposedly closed doors of the Syrian state. They decide to do their best to discredit this alternative news source, which has since taken the name of the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights. 

However, those other agencies and individuals in the know (United Nations, journalists and NGOs) agree that the SOHR is in fact an accurate alternative source of news. “Generally, the information on the killings of civilians is very good, definitely one of the best, including the details on the conditions in which people were supposedly killed,” said Neil Sammonds, a Mideast researcher for Amnesty International.

But of course, that is just Amnesty International, another western-funded NGO that has no credibility in matters of human rights abuses.  

ETA: And if you read the article above that NDPP posted, despite the headline, nowhere did the New York Times say that SOHR was "fraudulent". That editorial opinion was inserted by the "unbiased" writer of that article.  The NYT just observed (with some implication of respect and appreciation) how such a powerful information source could be based on such small and insignificant infrastructure as a network of friends with a thirst for truth and justice. One would like to think that the activist community of Babblers would be likewise impressed. 

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

US Hegemony in Syria: Up in Smoke.

 

Awww! And not invited to the Iran, Russia, Turkey Summit?

Does Uncle Sam want a candy?

Here. Eat some humble pie. Take a generous portion. Because freedom.

Canadian Eva Bartlett, in particular, shreds the lies of Democracy Now about some "moderate" secular uprising - which is an important service as many on the left continue to re-gurgitate this garbage - when, in fact the overwhelming majority of Aleppo's residents are overjoyed at the liberation of the city from the head-chopping, limb-severing, murderous, torturing Western-sponsored "moderates".

Bartlett points out that independent media confirm what is appearing in PressTV (Iran) and RT (Russia) and cites a number of these journalists.

Rev Pesky

sherpa-finn wrote:
...So this activist in Syria gets chased out of his home country by a brutal dictator and takes refuge in the UK where he is concerned by the lack of coverage by the media of the rebellion. And the fact that travel restrictions on journalists means that that the little information that is coming out is mainly through Syrian Gov't channels.

So, using the magic of the cell phones and social media, he assembles a nework of 200 or so friends and fellow activists still in Syria to provide reporst from the ground on what is actually happening. Needless to say, the Syrian Gov't, its allies and associated toadies are horrified that alternative news is now coming out from behind the supposedly closed doors of the Syrian state. They decide to do their best to discredit this alternative news source, which has since taken the name of the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights....

Do you have any independent evidence that this character was in fact imprisoned in Syria, that he was chased out of his country, and that he indeed has many contacts whom phone him on a regular basis?

The reason I ask this is because I remember Ahmed Chalabi. Do you remember him? The source of much of the information about Iraq's nuclear program, the representative of the Iraqi 'government in waiting'. A man who had extensive connnections in Iraq, a man who had been jailed and beaten by Hussein's government. In fact, a man very much like our friend here, the SOHR.

Chalabi was the real thing too.  

sherpa-finn

Dont' trust me, Rev: take a look at the NY Times article that NDPP linked to above, which he tried to pass off as a denunciation of Rami Abdul Rahmanand and the SOHR.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/10/world/middleeast/the-man-behind-the-ca...

The main differences between him and Chalabi?  Chalabi was a well known national political operator fom Day 1, with obvious personal political interests to advance. Mr Rahmanand, not so much. 

Chalabi insinuated himself into senior political circles with British and America politicians to foment for war. Last I heard, Mr Rahmanand was still a shopkeeper in Coventry.  

Finally, the information coming out of SOHR has been repeatedly verified by independent sources after the fact. (Ref earlier citation by Amnesty International.)  The information coming from the late, not particularly grieved, Mr Chalabi was never verified but was still accepted at face value by those who should presumably have known better (or themselves had an interest in not asking too many questions).

ETA: FWIW, I don't think anyone here said Rahmanand had been imprisoned by Assad.

6079_Smith_W

I did (that he had been imprisoned in Syria, so we can all put two and two together) The article I cited pointed out that he had been imprisoned three times, and left when he felt they might come for him again.

Or who knows. Maybe it is all just lies and there aren't really any bombs, and no one has been killed.

(edit)

In fact, maybe we can use the comment thread from this article as a sticky for all the prying and smearing questions we can possibly use, from why is he living off of government money, shouldn't we know what he was in jail for, because they never let polical prisoners out, to how come he's running a news organization if he just got out of jail?

https://news.vice.com/article/monitor-accuses-russia-and-syria-of-reveng...

 

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

Reuters wrote:
  Unpredictable as always, Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan is turning on his American partners, claiming that he has evidence, including images and video, of the United States supporting ISIS in Syria.

Reuters reports that Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan said he has evidence that U.S.-led coalition forces give support to terrorist groups including the Islamic State and Kurdish militant groups YPG and PYD, he said on Tuesday.

That's gotta hurt. Isn't Turkey a member-state of the (predatory) NATO military alliance? What happens when one of your allies says that you're funding terrorists? Hide under the bed and hope it will blow over? But that's hardly a "shining" anything on a hill. lol.

Does Obama want a cookie? Talk about crash and burn. Still, I suppose Obama could still try to "gift" the President-elect, Donald Trump, with more poison pills and the like.

 

RT wrote:
Earlier on Tuesday, Moscow accused Washington of “sponsoring terrorism” in Syria. Commenting on the latest National Defense Authorization Act signed into law by President Barack Obama, the Russian Foreign Ministry pointed out that the new bill “openly stipulates the possibility” of delivering more weapons to Syria, and added that those arms “will soon find their way to the jihadists,” which Russia would view as a “hostile act.”

Erdogan’s comments echoed those from the Iranian Defense Minister Hossein Dehghan, who told RT that Washington appears unready to play a serious role in fighting Islamic State, as it has fostered terrorists itself and now wants them to remain in the Middle East.

Keep saying "moderate" head-choppers. "Moderate" terrorists. Oh, and "moderate" massacres.

6079_Smith_W

Considering he accused the U.S. last summer of being behind the failed coup in his country, and has accused them of backing the Kurds in Syria, this isn't really a surprise. There are some who might say it is a good opportunity for him to take the heat off himself for his own failures and alleged actions.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-a-tures/how-erdogan-enabled-isis_b_10...

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

Well, it would be highly amusing were the Turkish President to make public the information he claims to have.

I suppose the US undoubtedly has some dirt on him as well - as it's probably SOP of the US regime to make vassals provide some "guarantees" of subservience - but much of this is probably things already in the public record through, e.g., the "questionable" Russian media (oil trade with the terrorists, a porous border for traffic to and from Syria, etc.) .

The way Obama is stumbling from one diplomatic disaster, insults to allies, peevish arming of unsuccessful terrorists, etc., to another, this just might be the cherry on top, the icing on the cake, the stinky floater left in the toilet for the next US regime to "clean up".

Supplemental: The Duran also has a story about Erdogan's request for US "help" in taking Al-Bab after the gruesome burning alive of 3 Turkish troops by the "less moderate" head choppers.  What WILL the Americans do? Should be interesting.

Defeated by ISIS in Syria Erdogan calls in the US

 

 

 

NDPP

M of A: Syrian Roundup

https://t.co/SHCDNP9kWN

"Aleppo liberated - Turkey's problems increase."

 

Vanessa Beeley, Andrew Ashdown Interviewed

https://youtu.be/B0XjWWb806w

The truth from East Aleppo

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

A bit of a Syrian "round-up".

1. "Moderates" shell Russian Embassey in Damascus

Quote:
The Russian embassy in Damascus was shelled twice on Wednesday afternoon, the Russian Foreign Ministry said. The shelling happened at 10:00 and 10:19 GMT, according to the statement. One shell hit an inner yard of the embassy complex, without exploding, TASS reports. Another shell landed near the diplomatic mission, and de-mining specialists have been working to defuse it. The ministry described the attack as a provocation aimed at derailing peace settlement in Syria.

2.  "Moderates" poison the water supply in Damascus.

‘No water for 5 days’: Damascus struggles after rebels reportedly poison supply (RT EXCLUSIVE)


Quote:
The Syrian capital has been without water for five days. Western media has blamed the government for disrupting the supply, but there is evidence that rebels are behind the water crisis, with renewed video threats. RT’s Lizzie Phelan reports.

Damascus continues to be considered the safest place in Syria. But it has an Achilles heel, and that’s the water supply – currently under rebel control. Last week, the government accused the rebels of contaminating the reservoir at Ein al Fija spring’s water pumping station, which serves about 65 percent of Damascus, with diesel and other poisons.

Blame the Syrian government! They're starving their own citizens because ... never mind why!

3. In other news in Syria, Russian sappers sweep Aleppo for mines, discovering shells made in US, Germany (VIDEO)


Quote:
Russian bomb disposal teams are continuing to sweep schools and mosques of Aleppo for booby-traps, mines and munitions after they were wrested from rebel control. Recovered explosives come from various parts of the world, including the US and Germany....

The teams discovered and defused some 14,700 dangerous items, including 6,700 IEDs. The munitions discovered in stockpiles left behind by various armed groups ranged from small arms rounds and hand grenades all the way up to rockets meant for multiple-rocket launchers.

Footage of the ongoing demining operation released by the Russian Defense Ministry showed crates full of various munitions; some of them marked “Produced in Yugoslavia by Ordnance Corps United States Army.”

USA! USA! We're number one in arms sales!

4. Finally ....

Details of Russo-Turk ceasefire plan in Syria


M. Sleboda wrote:
That Erdogan is claiming ability to speak by & for all jihadi & Islamist "rebels" (but JFS and ISIS) in Syria speaks volumes.

But as all areas with JFS/AQ presence are supposedly excluded it is not clear where this can/would actually apply, even if Erdogan does indeed have that kind of control over his other erstwhile proxies, which I doubt, as JFS/AQ are almost everywhere and especially in almost total control of Idlib.

Will Ahrar Al Sham, Jaesh Al Islam, and Jund Al Aqsa etc etc actually stop fighting b/c Erdogan says to? Do his ratlines to them give him that much leverage over them?

Will JFS/AQ be expected to "disappear", shave off their Wahhabi beards and become moderates too, as it is expected much of ISIS forces did in Jarablus?

I am skeptical, but who does one make peace with if not one's enemy? And Erdogan's Islamist regime is indeed Russia and Syria's enemy, have no doubt.

IF Erdogan feels he has "saved enough face" and goes through with this and does indeed have the requisite leverage over the "rebels" to make them comply AND closes the Turkish border - then Putin can cut the US, UK, France, Saudi Arabia & Qatar out of the equation altogether, as without the Turkish border, they won't be able to get arms & supplies to their proxies in sufficient quantities to sustain more than a guerilla/terrorist campaign.

Will Erdogan now have to fight his own disgruntled jihadi proxies at home as well as the PKK?

I also suspect that if Clinton has won the election instead of Trump, we would even now be beginning plans for joint US-Turkish "safe zones" and "no fly zones" in Syria. But with Trump taking office and his sentiments on the "rebels" well known, Erdogan will not want to be caught holding the bag alone....

iyraste1313

re Qatar...interesting piece by Voltairenet, claiming that Russia made agreements with Qatar previous to the victory in Aleppo....

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

Russia is much better at gritting their teeth and sitting down with anyone if it means that problems can be solved. If you look deeper at public debate in that country what you see is some pretty harsh criticism of Putin, for example, for being such a liberal on negotiating with various "devils". These nuances are, of course, lost in the Western MSM narrative. It doesn't fit the profile of an authoritarian tyrant who silences all dissent.

This is in contrast to the preferred SOP of the US regime, which conducts diplomacy via threats and ultimatums, filling the air with the delicious fragrance of its own flatulence and expecting others to say nice things about the "aroma".

"The United States is the indispensable country." Fffffffftttt! "A shining city on the hill." Brrracckkkk! Before peace can be assured in Syria, Assad must go!" Brrrrrrkkkkkkkkkk!!!!

The United States of Smelly Farts. I think we have a new thread idea ...

Tongue out

Rev Pesky

A rather sharp example of how differently the battle for Aleppo, and the battle for Mosul are reported:

Battle for Mosul

Quote:
A handsome, shaggy-haired Shia Shabak militiaman cheered every time an explosion shook the besieged Islamic State-held city of Mosul.

The teenager, whose vest was crammed with six AK-47 magazines and a hand grenade, had a lot to celebrate. Iraq’s second-largest city, only 10 kilometres away to the northeast of this hamlet, was being rocked by bombs and missiles dropped by waves of Iraqi and coalition warplanes screaming across the sky unseen.

...The conflict with Iraqi and Kurdish forces has created scores of ghost towns that have been turned into rubble. Hospitals and mortuaries as far away as Baghdad and Erbil are crammed with the grievously wounded and the dead. The UN predicts that the current mayhem and extreme brutality that ISIL has imposed on approximately a million civilians is creating a humanitarian crisis rivalling the one that has finally gotten the West’s attention in Aleppo.

...Though encircled on land and hit from the air by Iraqi and coalition aircraft every time they poke their heads out of their tunnels and other hiding places, ISIL remains a diabolical foe. It still thinks nothing of burying, burning or bulldozing its victims.

Key parts of its latest defence strategy have been to use civilians as human shields on the front lines, according to both Iraqi and American sources.

...what will be the next monstrous iteration of Sunni extremism in Iraq, which first found its voice in Osama bin Laden’s Al-Qaeda and, more than ever today, has global as well as regional aspirations?

It will be some time yet before we get any of those questions answered. Until then, the celebrations on the streets around Mosul will need to serve as a bellwether.

..."the current mayhem and extreme brutality that ISIL has imposed on approximately a million civilians"...

As opposed to the warm and fuzzy hug they gave to the citizens of Aleppo, cruelly torn apart by the Syrians and Russians.

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

You could find the same sort of thing in Al Jazeera (that rabble.ca links to for general news) .

Here's some cautious reporting on what would be a momentous and outstanding breakthrough.

BREAKING: Rumours of Putin-Erdogan Syria CEASEFIRE deal sweep Middle East

Wow.

 

NDPP

Rebels Accused of Poisoning Damascus' Water Supply

https://youtu.be/9WamWPpiJ9k

"Damascus without water from main water supply for 5 days."

 

US Law To Arm Syrian Rebels a Hostile Decision - FM Spokesperson

https://youtu.be/jcWUYRlHT_o

MANPADS to Western jihadi proxies in Syria

swallow swallow's picture

ikosmos wrote:

The United States of Smelly Farts. I think we have a new thread idea ...

Tongue out

Magoo, your prediction came true! 

NDPP

A View of the Syrian War From the Golan Heights   -  by Robert Fisk

https://t.co/FFKDfyhviq

"Al Qaeda never attacks Israel. Israel never attacks al Qaeda..."

 

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