What is this election missing? Empathy for Trump voters. - WaPo

363 posts / 0 new
Last post
Ken Burch

Why on earth would you post that?  There is no possible Left program or party that could ever make common cause with that person.  The basic argument the guy is making is that free speech means the right to be an overbearing jerk.

He also argues that the far right should be allowed to have platforms-never mind that, once a right-winger gets a platform, it becomes totally and permanently impossible to defeat that right-winger. 

Why even pretend that the structure of debate isn't totally rigged against progressive, transformative ideas and people?  Once the fascists are given the podium, it's over.

josh

The worse, the better.

After Hitler, us.

Michael Moriarity Michael Moriarity's picture

NDPP seems to think that neoliberalism  is way worse than fascism. I believe the opposite.

NDPP

Seems obvious in a thread about Trump voters to actually hear from one.  Both sides of the American duopoly  have their own multiplicities of 'truths', lies or nonsense among their adherents, as is also the case with the Dem voter in the post above mine. I chose this guy because he is somewhat articulate and because he is a first time Trump voter who previously voted Democrat since 1973. Understandably Americans themselves, such as Josh and Ken are far more invested in all of this than I am and hence would prefer to promote an exclusive Democrat view, but clearly that is not the intent of the thread. As for me, my position on Trump or Biden should be clear. The American duopoly is no friend of progressives in Canada or anywhere else.  A plague on both their houses.

Michael Moriarity Michael Moriarity's picture

NDPP wrote:

As for me, my position on Trump or Biden should be clear. The American duopoly is no friend of progressives in Canada or anywhere else.  A plague on both their houses.

This is not at all clear. I agree that "The American duopoly is no friend of progressives in Canada or anywhere else." However, it is way too easy to then say "A plague on both their houses." as if there is no difference between them. One of these groups will be in charge of the American Empire for the next 4 years (maybe much longer if it turns out to be the now thoroughly fascist Republicans). Plague on both is a cop out, a refusal to take responsibility for one's own actions, just like refusing to vote.

Ken Burch

NDPP wrote:

Seems obvious in a thread about Trump voters to actually hear from one.  Both sides of the American duopoly  have their own multiplicities of 'truths', lies or nonsense among their adherents, as is also the case with the Dem voter in the post above mine. I chose this guy because he is somewhat articulate and because he is a first time Trump voter who previously voted Democrat since 1973. Understandably Americans themselves, such as Josh and Ken are far more invested in all of this than I am and hence would prefer to promote an exclusive Democrat view, but clearly that is not the intent of the thread. As for me, my position on Trump or Biden should be clear. The American duopoly is no friend of progressives in Canada or anywhere else.  A plague on both their houses.

Thanks for explaining your motives for posting that link.  It sounded as though you thought Democrats and progressives should try to make common cause with this guy, when in truth he wouldn't vote for any Dem or any progressive- he damn sure wouldn't vote for Bernie.

The sort of Trump voters Dems and progressives SHOULD be trying to connect with are those who voted for the guy because Hillary was an economic royalist- not people like the writer you linked to, who are basically pissed off because- in one of their few genuinely progressive choices, the Democratic establishment recognizes the fact that the true face of the U.S. is multicultural, multigender, and anti-bullying.  Mr. Kunstler is just a guy who doesn't want to accept reality.

 

Ken Burch

NDPP wrote:

Seems obvious in a thread about Trump voters to actually hear from one.  Both sides of the American duopoly  have their own multiplicities of 'truths', lies or nonsense among their adherents, as is also the case with the Dem voter in the post above mine. I chose this guy because he is somewhat articulate and because he is a first time Trump voter who previously voted Democrat since 1973. Understandably Americans themselves, such as Josh and Ken are far more invested in all of this than I am and hence would prefer to promote an exclusive Democrat view, but clearly that is not the intent of the thread. As for me, my position on Trump or Biden should be clear. The American duopoly is no friend of progressives in Canada or anywhere else.  A plague on both their houses.

Thanks for explaining your motives for posting that link.  It sounded as though you thought Democrats and progressives should try to make common cause with this guy, when in truth he wouldn't vote for any Dem or any progressive- he damn sure wouldn't vote for Bernie.

The sort of Trump voters Dems and progressives SHOULD be trying to connect with are those who voted for the guy because Hillary was an economic royalist- not people like the writer you linked to, who are basically pissed off because- in one of their few genuinely progressive choices- the Democratic establishment recognizes the fact that the true face of the U.S. is multicultural, multigender, and anti-bullying.  Mr. Kunstler is just a guy who doesn't want to accept reality.

 

kropotkin1951

When it comes to foreign policy I see no difference. It is American Exceptionalism. American voters believe that the US has the right to rule the world because they are "home of the free". Empires rule with the consent of their own people except for dissidents. The US citizens not only believe in their system of government but believe they need to export it around the globe. Too me as an internationalist it makes no difference which party of the dueling oligarchies wins the election the beatings will continue world wide until all governments on the planet submit to US hegemony.

Pondering

The only Trump supporters I have sympathy for are anti-abortionists and Q Anon believers. 

Michael Moriarity Michael Moriarity's picture

Pondering

Empathy isn't the same as acceptance. I have empathy for them because they genuinely believe propaganda so they at least think they are doing the right thing. If I believed babies were being murdered I would be a dedicated anti-abortionist.  If I believed, As Aristotled appears to, that Covid-19 is a hoax in the sense of being wildly exagerated I would argue vehemently against government controls. 

It is the ones who know full well that the threat is real but still priorize self-interest whom I condemn. They do know better. They just don't care. Their money and power have greater value than the lives of commoners. 

Trump is mentally ill. I don't feel sympathy for him because he is generally happy and enjoying himself most of the time in his insanity. The people surrounding him don't have the excuse of insanity. They lick his boots in exchange for wealth and power. That includes his family. They have all made their deals with the devil. 

Emily Murphy is betraying her country. She is part of the failing checks and balances. She has it within her power to free transition resources. She is not doing it purely out of self-interest. She is more guilty than Trump. He is a madman. It is the people around him making the calculated decisions who are morally bankrupt. 

Those who have succumbed to brainwashing are not the guilty. They are victims. They are dying in denial, perhaps to protect themselves from the knowledge that they could be alive and well had they not believed the President of their country. 

JKR

Pondering wrote:

Emily Murphy is betraying her country. She is part of the failing checks and balances. She has it within her power to free transition resources. She is not doing it purely out of self-interest. She is more guilty than Trump. He is a madman. It is the people around him making the calculated decisions who are morally bankrupt. 

Unfortunately if Emily Murphy signed off on the transition to the Biden administration she would be inundated with death threats against her and her family from Trump cultists from all across the U.S.

Trump is basically a mob boss who has gained power by knowing how to intimidate people. He is by far the worst president in the history of the U.S.

Pages