WikiLeaks' Assange in Ecuador embassy London: Seeks political asylum

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Bacchus

quizzical wrote:

i went and looked up extradition laws in Europe.

well tried to copy and paste and won't even do the link for some reason. so google  European Convention for Extradition and have a read!!!!!

it says nothing about  "questioning"!!!! going to type link out.

http://conventions.coe.int/Treaty/en/Treaties/Html/024.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extradition

 

Correct, It doesnt forbid it at all

Kara

6079_Smith_W wrote:

And the attempts to undermine the complainant haven't changed either. If people want to go after the Swedish prosecutors, fine, but going after an innocent party is not only pointless, it is highly offensive. I don't see that it proves anything at all, except the lengths to which some in the media will go. Using photos and hearsay and to kick around a sexual assault accusation in the open press is really low.

Great post. The attempts to smear the alleged victims are despicable and offensive. As far as I'm concerned, there are a few people here who need a serious reprimand. Defending Assange's right to protection from extradition to the US is possible without attacking the alleged victims. These same type of offensive articles keep getting posted and someone needs to make it clear that it is not acceptable at all.

I wrote a post offering an apology to Fidel before I finished reading the thread - might have to withdraw that unless Fidel disavows this disgusting article.

quizzical

Bec.De.Corbin wrote:
quizzical wrote:
'sealed indictment aside'???????? how can you even put that out there??????

'Supposed' 'sealed indictment aside'

I don't mind you quoting me or picking my posts apart but please select everything in a quote if you do. You left out a word, there's a big difference in the meaning when you drop that one word. I hope it wasn't on purpose to try and change what I said.

did you mean "alleged" when you used supposed? 'cause i took it to mean expected or understood to be waiting. therefore i negated it in my thoughts and quote.

 

Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

I meant supposed because nobody has seen it to prove it really exists... There is only hear-say and second hand information that is based on an e-mail sent in early 2011 by a guy whom turns out was pissed at Assange for geting his companies e-mails. And who knows that could be a plant by that executive to scare the crap out of Assange: if it is it's obviously working. How’s that for a false flag operation?

6079_Smith_W

Except Bec, if there is nothing to it then I'd have to say this is the most zealous prosecution of a sexual assault case in the history of the world. The cops should be so on the ball in our town.

First - the notion that this would clear the highest court in Britain without even a charge on the table. And secondly the fact that Britain is seriously pointing out that they can violate diplonatic sovreignty in order to carry out that warrant-without-a-charge.

And that we would coincidentally have someone playing a gag to scare the shit out of Assange at the same time as this unprecedented situation?

Sorry, but it boggles the mind - my mind anyway. I'm not one for conspiracy theories, but the idea that they would spend this much political capital, and damage their reputation this much without some ulterior motive? I simply do not believe it.

 

(edit) 

Your reference to him as a "wealthy European" got me thinking, though. Considering where he is really from, I am sure some of those Law Lords saw him as being born with one foot in the nick already.

 

Fidel

All the Swedes have to do is guarantee Assange's right not to be extradited to a country that violates basic human rights and tortures, and justice can then be carried out with Assange's full cooperation. It is Sweden and Britain that are failing to provide those guarantees with respect to basic human rights. And we can essentially expect no guarantees of law and order by that corrupt military regime south of us.

Fidel

deleted by Fidel

Fidel

Kara wrote:
 - might have to withdraw that unless Fidel disavows this disgusting article.

Disavowed and deleted.

Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

6079_Smith_W wrote:

Except Bec, if there is nothing to it then I'd have to say this is the most zealous prosecution of a sexual assault case in the history of the world. The cops should be so on the ball in our town.

First - the notion that this would clear the highest court in Britain without even a charge on the table. And secondly the fact that Britain is seriously pointing out that they can violate diplonatic sovreignty in order to carry out that warrant-without-a-charge.

And that we would coincidentally have someone playing a gag to scare the shit out of Assange at the same time as this unprecedented situation?

Sorry, but it boggles the mind - my mind anyway. I'm not one for conspiracy theories, but the idea that they would spend this much political capital, and damage their reputation this much without some ulterior motive? I simply do not believe it.

 

(edit) 

Your reference to him as a "wealthy European" got me thinking, though. Considering where he is really from, I am sure some of those Law Lords saw him as being born with one foot in the nick already.

 

Actually the e-mail "gag" (would have) came first and this caused Assange to run to the embassy which started the diplomatic row between Britain and Ecuador. Britain threatened to enact that law after that, nice bluff, tip of the hat for Ecuador on calling it, but I never thought they’d really do it and in the end as it turns out they won’t. As you pointed out Assange isn’t worth it to them.

Think about it; what can you do once you know or suspect someone is digging in your garbage for information on you? Pretty much anything you want them to find you can get to them. Hummmmmmmm, and this won’t be the first time this trick was pulled. All the USA has to do is sit there and silently stare at Assange, he does all the work. It's brilliantly fucking evil.

 

Fidel

Assange Asylum Wins Correa Anti-U.S. Cachet as Trade to Suffer

Uncle Sam: We'll lay medieval siege to an entire nation in order to get to one whistleblower blowing whistles on our corrupt military dictatorship!

Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

Assange isn't a whistleblower, he only publishes other whistleblower's stuff... he is not the one whom finds it and exposes it.

Fidel

That's right. And Warshington wants to rendition Assange to Guantanamo and pay him generously to write new and improved whistleblower protection laws applying to everyone from Bradley Manning to the most gagged woman in U.S. history, Sibel Edmonds. It's too bad Assange is playing hard to get, though.

John Stockwell wrote:
"It is the function of the CIA to keep the world unstable, and to propagandize and teach the American people to hate and fear, so we will let the Establishment spend any amount of money on arms."

Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

I don't care what you or John Stockwell says, Assange is not going to Guantanamo.

quizzical

Bec.De.Corbin wrote:
Assange isn't a whistleblower, he only publishes other whistleblower's stuff... he is not the one whom finds it and exposes it.

just don't get the point of your saying this. i think e1 here knows he is a whistle blower by way of revealing only. 'cause even i do. if he didn't do the public revealing there'd be NO whistle blowing exposure imv.

bacchus...   it says suspects not those wanted for questioning without charges. whats interesting to me  is there is NO extradition for political reasons between European countries.  makes Sweden's actions a little more suspect imv. i don't believe in coincidences 1 little bit!

contrarianna

Bec.De.Corbin wrote:

Assange isn't a whistleblower, he only publishes other whistleblower's stuff... he is not the one whom finds it and exposes it.

Half correct at best, which is better than usual.

In most cases the classified cable material was not publisherd first by Wikileaks but, as per agreements, was redacted and published first in US and other newspapers.

These deals were broken by an Assange-antagonistic Guardian which handed the material to another newspaper not in the agreement, and then later, inscrutably, published IN A BOOK,by the Guardian's anti-Assange David Leigh, the uncrackable encryption code for the un-redacted encrypted cables which allowed anyone to access it who had a copy of the otherwise useless (the "insurance file") to access it.

The US government, of course, is not going after the established media  publishers of this classified material in the US or elsewhere, but rather after Wikileaks and Assange, the facilitating whistleblowing intermediary for at least 3 obvious reasons:

1) To prevent whistleblowers from having a safe means of getting information out.

2) It looks bad for the illusionary lip service to "press freedom".

3) The US government has a very long history of illegally leaking to the media classified documents by "anonymous government sources" designed to put the government in a positive light and further policy.

The Obama administration, with its unprecedented persecution and pursuit of whistlebowers of government wrongdoing( far more zealously pursued than the previous Bush administration), is also unprecedented for illegally and anonymously leaking classified documents to the media. Needless to say, there will be no persecution or prosecution of illegal pro-government leakers.

Quote:
Over the past several months, including just last week, I’ve written numerous times about the two glaring contradictions that drive the Obama administration’s manipulative game-playing with its secrecy powers: (1) at the very same time that they wage an unprecedented war on whistleblowers, they themselves continuously leak national security secrets exclusively designed to glorify Obama purely for political gain; and (2) at the very same time they insist to federal courts that these programs are too secret even to confirm or deny their existence (thereby shielding them from judicial review or basic disclosure), they run around publicly boasting about their actions....

http://www.salon.com/2012/06/07/probing_obamas_secrecy_games/

 

Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

You two are confused.

Assange and Wikileaks employees do not have the access to find and release the information they've published on their web site (from where ever they get it), only the real whistleblower who has the proper clearances to the information (like then Spc. Manning) could do that. Assange, as far as I know, has never been in a position to be a real whistleblower, he only publishes stuff others find and expose. He may try and present himself as one but he really isn’t; what secret documents did he ever have initial access to and exposed all by himself, none that I’ve ever heard of.

Assange helps whistleblowers get their information out to the public and that has its own merits that he deserves. He does not obtain it himself and he does not make the initial decision to expose it to the public; the real whistleblower does that.

kropotkin1951

I guess a better way to state it would be he aided and abetted whistle blowers.  Like other "crimes" that makes one guilty of much the same offense in  the eyes of police and prosecutors. 

Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

I think the US case against him, if there is one, is weak and on shaky legal ground. Assange runs a publishing web site not a hacking or spy ring. He has stolen nothing from the USA.

quizzical

making like the USA isn't and isn't going to go after Assange is hilarious. it's BS to pretend  they aren't.

Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

I'm not making like anything. Time will tell who's right.

quizzical

if you're not making like anything...where's the "time will tell whose right" come into it?

if the USA wasn't  going after him why'd they go after Equador for gving him assylum?

Bacchus

quizzical wrote:

Bec.De.Corbin wrote:
Assange isn't a whistleblower, he only publishes other whistleblower's stuff... he is not the one whom finds it and exposes it.

just don't get the point of your saying this. i think e1 here knows he is a whistle blower by way of revealing only. 'cause even i do. if he didn't do the public revealing there'd be NO whistle blowing exposure imv.

bacchus...   it says suspects not those wanted for questioning without charges. whats interesting to me  is there is NO extradition for political reasons between European countries.  makes Sweden's actions a little more suspect imv. i don't believe in coincidences 1 little bit!

 

He IS a suspect in a suspected crime and its not a political one (sexual assault of two women). I said nothing about political charges

Lord Palmerston

Exactly.  But since he's one of "us" we have to make an exception.  

Fidel

Bacchus wrote:
He IS a suspect in a suspected crime ...

Then why don't they question him? They question murder suspects in other countries. Why are they refusing to do their jobs when it comes to Assange? Are they wobbling for more pay?

Bacchus

*shrugs* because he isn't in someones custody? I dont know frankly but generally the swedes have been pretty good about human rights , womans rights etc.

 

More so than most countries

contrarianna

Bacchus wrote:

*shrugs* because he isn't in someones custody? I dont know frankly but generally the swedes have been pretty good about human rights , womans rights etc.

More so than most countries

This is all nonsense.

Interviews do not require "custody". Sweden has had ongoing offers in many locals to question him, with the procedurally consistent option  of then laying charges, if they so wish. The most recent offer was from within the Ecuadorian embassy. All offers have been snubbed, recently with the blatant lie that they never send interviewers out of the country.

Generalizing from your vague impression of Sweden  as "pretty good about human rights" does not work because there are many inconsistencies in this highly politicized case. Another politicized case resulted in torture:

Quote:
Ahmed Agiza and Muhammad Alzery (also Elzari, el-Zary, etc.) were two Egyptian asylum-seekers who were deported to Egypt from Sweden on December 18, 2001, apparently following a request from the United States Central Intelligence Agency.[1] The forced repatriation was criticised because of the danger of torture and ill treatment, and because the deportation decision was executed the same day without notifying the lawyers of the asylum seekers....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repatriation_of_Ahmed_Agiza_and_Muhammad_al...

Under the "Moderate" government in Sweden the ties with the US are even stronger with Karl Rove as an advisor to PM Reinfeldt who no doubt has plenty of input on Assange.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/andrew-kreig/rove-suspected-in-swedish_b_7...

and
http://www.justice-integrity.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=artic...

 The likely reason that Sweden has not interviewed him, followed up by laying charges, is that it would add a serious layer of embarrassment to Assange's extradition to the US.
Without charges being laid, the then unsealed US indictment would have priority for the incarcerated Assange and the sex assault allegations would be put in abeyance.

However, if charges were laid, the trial in Sweden would have priority--if it went to trial. Sweden's state and prosecution have not followed a pattern that could be described as normal, or legal, for Sweden's pro-active sex crime laws, and to have charges thrown out because of these inconsistencies would put Assange in a better light and make the extradition ruse more obvious to a lot of  people. Some of the procedural problems with the Swedish case can be seen in Naomi Wolf's article here:

"Eight Big Problems with the  Case Against Assange"

http://markcrispinmiller.com/2011/02/eight-big-problems-with-the-case-ag...

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

For Julian Assange, Justice Foreclosed

- snip -

About the state, though, there must be no illusions. A nation that goes to war on fraud, that insists “We don’t torture” when evidence to the contrary abounds, that kidnaps foreign nationals and puts them on planes to be delivered to dungeons, that spies on its people, asserts its right to lock them up indefinitely and lets documented CIA torturers off the hook of accountability because they were only following orders: that nation will plot, and it will double-cross, and it will kill. Sweden participated in the US program of extraordinary rendition. The United Kingdom has threatened to storm Ecuador’s embassy. The United States now says it does not recognize the historic right of persons to seek diplomatic asylum. Assange’s lawyers have said that he will go to Sweden if he gets an absolutely firm guarantee from the Obama administration that it will not arrest him. Such a guarantee is impossible in an empire of lies.

Fidel

The Nation wrote:
So here is the spectacle of Assange, as yet unindicted, bearing the dual brand of Sex Offender and Terrorist, the subhuman beings of the twenty-first century. The fusing of abuse and terror in his case thus implies two victims who must be believed, the women and the state. But the women’s claims are murky, and the state is not credible.

The Gladio gang says Assange is a terrorist. I think the women accusing Assange might help their own case if they were to distance themselves from the scum of the earth pursuing Assange but for "terrorism."

NDPP

Assange Blasts 'Perverse Transnational Totalitarianism' - Interview

http://rt.com/news/assange-interview-transnational-totalitarianism-021/

"The West's 'perverse' empire is leading to the collapse of human rights, WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange said. The whistleblower, currently holed up in the UK's Ecuadorian embassy expects to leave in a year if Sweden drops its case against him.."

Assange is interviewed by Venezuelan TV (and vid)

http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/331893

NDPP

The Assange Case  -  by Craig Murray

http://www.deliberation.info/the-assange-case/

Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

Quote:
On the alleged charges leveled by Sweden and when he will be able to leave the  embassy, Assange said, "I think the situation will be solved with diplomacy, or  through an unusual world occurrence that we can't predict, such as war with  Iran, the U.S. election or the Swedish government dropping the case.  I think  this is the most likely scenario."

So how would a war between the USA and Iran get him off the hook as a suspect for sex crimes in Sweden? Does he think he can sneek out while everyone is watching TV or something?

NDPP

Fascism Touchstone for 'Democratic' West   -  by Rodney Shakespeare

http://presstv.com/detail/2012/09/09/260677/fascism-touchstone-for-democ...

"Assange has not been charged with anything. Not in Sweden and not in the UK. Nor did he flee Sweden in order to avoid questioning. Indeed, he remained in Sweden for five weeks for the purpose of being questioned and was then given permission to leave. So, no charge, no questioning and permission to leave because the case against him, which had never had a real existence, had been dropped..."

Fidel

All they have to do is promise not to allow Assange to be renditioned to that gulag nation renowned for torture and basic human rights abuses; easy peasy. Are Swedish and U.K authorities interested in pursuing rape charges? It doesn't appear so. What's Ottawa's position on this? lol!

Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

What if they promise that then change their minds after he leaves the embassy?

Have Assange and his supporters thought of that?

quizzical

contrarianna wrote:
 Some of the procedural problems with the Swedish case can be seen in Naomi Wolf's article here:

"Eight Big Problems with the  Case Against Assange"

">http://markcrispinmiller.com/2011/02/eight-big-problems-with-the-case-against-assange-must-read-by-naomi-wolf/

interesting reading this. i noticed no one else has commented on it. are there CIA involved in this thread or somethin? 'cause it all seems prettyy relevant to me....

i didn't know who Karl Rove was or even Naomi Wolf before reading this.  now  i've heard 'bout and  googled them i'd be reluctant to be on the side Karl Rove is helping.

Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

Everyone here that is posting on this subject has read that article, it's been posted in other Assange threads...

quizzical

links?

Bacchus

Isn't he essentially locked up now?

quizzical

from my pov now the US  has started to punish ALL Equadorians for having Assange in their embassy in Britian takes this beyond Assange being "essentually locked up".

i think chatter trying to say the US  wanting him is alleged or this is about rape is demeaning and  exploitative.

i've been doing a site search looking for discussion  around Naomi Wolf's 8 points and can't find anything....some other chatter 'bout some things she said and wrote. nothing on the 8 things though. i see she called people out for exploiting women and rape to try and get Assange a long time ago.

Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

At least he has internet...

Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

quizzical wrote:

the US  has started to punish ALL Equadorians for having Assange in their embassy in Britian takes this beyond Assange being "essentually locked up".

How's that?

Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

quizzical wrote:

links?

I'm sorry your search foo isn't working very well today; I know Fidel or maybe someone else here linked to it farther back in this huge thread, I remember reading it and I remember seeing it brought up several times (if I recall right).

Keep looking, its here somewhere.

quizzical

Bec.De.Corbin wrote:
quizzical wrote:

the US  has started to punish ALL Equadorians for...Assange in their embassy in Britian takes this beyond Assange being "essentually locked up".

How's that?

i spoke 'bout it and linked to it way above.

...not going to bother trying to look up sfa more about Naomi Wolf's 8 ponts. i think it was ignored in typical male babbler fashion. 

Fidel

Bec.De.Corbin wrote:

What if they promise that then change their minds after he leaves the embassy?

Have Assange and his supporters thought of that.

I think it might be unprecedented. Embassies are supposed to represent sanctuary or neutral ground where every other country's legal authorities (and their executive death squads since the cold war era) just don't tread. What the Gladio Gang risks is having their own embassies violated similarly. No country has more embassies around the world than the U.S. and U.K., and so I believe they would stand to lose the most. OTOH, they really don't like Assange and his crusade for military-government transparency and accountability to the public even less so. Of course, we 9/11 truthers already know the general reasons behind the "why not?" end of things. Democracy is just a word they recycle now and again for the sake of political expediency. The Gladio Gang's version of democracy and the average person's concept of it  are two totally different things altogether.

Slumberjack

I don't know about different conceptions.  There's an awful lot of people who believe we have it.

Fidel

You're right. I should have said the average babbler's conception of it. And I think babblers conception of democracy ranges from the overly exuberant to the atheists, so to speak, among us.

Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

 

Bec.De.Corbin wrote:
quizzical wrote:

the US  has started to punish ALL Equadorians for...Assange in their embassy in Britian takes this beyond Assange being "essentually locked up".

How's that?
Quote:

i spoke 'bout it and linked to it way above.

...not going to bother trying to look up sfa more about Naomi Wolf's 8 ponts. i think it was ignored in typical male babbler fashion. 

Actually I meant how has "the USA started to punish ALL Ecuadorians". How is the USA doing that? You're not very clear about that and I'd like to know... 

Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

Fidel wrote:

Bec.De.Corbin wrote:

What if they promise that then change their minds after he leaves the embassy?

Have Assange and his supporters thought of that.

I think it might be unprecedented. Embassies are supposed to represent sanctuary or neutral ground where every other country's legal authorities (and their executive death squads since the cold war era) just don't tread. What the Gladio Gang risks is having their own embassies violated similarly. No country has more embassies around the world than the U.S. and U.K., and so I believe they would stand to lose the most. OTOH, they really don't like Assange and his crusade for military-government transparency and accountability to the public even less so. Of course, we 9/11 truthers already know the general reasons behind the "why not?" end of things. Democracy is just a word they recycle now and again for the sake of political expediency. The Gladio Gang's version of democracy and the average person's concept of it  are two totally different things altogether.

No Fidel, when he's OUTSIDE the embassy, off its grounds, like on an airplane, they could change their mind and then arrest him or whatever. Once he leaves the embassy grounds he's fair game for whoever is pissed or whatever at him. Think about this: how smart is he if he thinks he can trust the nations he’s exposed as deceitful? Not very if you ask me.  

NDPP

Assange Lawyer: A Man Who Committed No Crime is Persecuted (and vid)

http://rt.com/news/assange-lawyer-garzon-interview-789/

Baltasar Garzon is no stranger to conflict when it comes  to fighting injustice carried out by state powers. In an exclusive interview with RT, the Spanish jurist explained why WIkiLeaks founder and whistleblower Julian Assange is 'worth defending'.."

quizzical

Bec.De.Corbin wrote:
Bec.De.Corbin wrote:
quizzical wrote:

the US  has started to punish ALL Equadorians for...Assange in their embassy in Britian takes this beyond Assange being "essentually locked up".

How's that?
Quote:
i spoke 'bout it and linked to it way above.

...not going to bother trying to look up sfa more about Naomi Wolf's 8 ponts. i think it was ignored in typical male babbler fashion. 

Actually I meant how has "the USA started to punish ALL Ecuadorians". How is the USA doing that? You're not very clear about that and I'd like to know... 

hey i told ya i linked to it and stuff in a early post in this thread go have a look for yourself...

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