Pondering wrote:I live a few blocks away from an urban drop-in centre downtown. When the pandemic hit, they had to close their doors inside and all they could do was have people line up, grab their lunches, and go on their way. Had health officials consulted with them, I'm sure they would have said, "this drop-in provides a vital service to these people, and we believe that the threats to their physical and mental health from not having this space open far outweigh the risk of the coronavirus."
I'm pretty sure you are wrong about that. I haven't heard of any complaining of being shut down. They want to protect their workers and clients from Covid too. We are expanding services (not enough) but hotels are being transformed into shelters, warming centres are planned etc.
I'm pretty sure since I live in the area and know people connected to this drop-in that I know what I'm talking about.
Then why didn't you just say that the management running the place was against the closure?
From what I have heard and read, the medical community in Winnipeg is upset with the new code red restrictions because they do not go far enough. One of the biggest exemptions they are bringing up is how lax they are being with religious gatherings that have been the primary source of infection for many First Nations communities in Manitoba and Saskatchewan. One thing is clear, Manitoba is doing a crappy job in explaining or justifying what they choose to close, partially close or leave open. People are perpetually confused. This includes the restrictions for gatherings at home which seemingly allow a maximum of 5 people in addition to those resident in the homes (it was 10 while we were in code orange). That seems like a recipe for disaster (which it proved to be thanks to Thanksgiving celebrations).
Full lockdown would mean nobody who lives outside your home is allowed in and that is what we dealt with back in April. When things eased up, many of us just limited social gatherings to outdoor spaces in small diads or triads in outdoor spaces (parks, backyard, private patio). As things further eased, some cautious people identified their own extended bubble of many one to three people that they might invite indoors but still using social distancing and hand sanitizers and other precautions.
And of course, considerations need to be made for vulnerable people who do not have homes or family to be with. The Main Street Project and One Just City (along with other missions) are doing their best to ensure their safety and wellbeing. In fact, those organizations have been given funding to ramp up their facilities and services.
Does the situation suck for many, many people. Absolutely. It is not great on anyone's mental wellbeing to be denied social time with family and friends (especially hard when travel is involved). It is also hard on earnings for many people inspite of emergency relief measures put in place. I am working at 50% and maybe even less with this new surge and my partner who managed to keep working full time will probably be down to 25% in hours given the code red status. It is by no means a walk in the park for anyone - some more than others. WE KNOW THIS.
Those are not facilities the homeless get to hang out in no matter how cold outside. In Montreal a hotel is being opened up to use as a rooming house until March 31st. Shelter capacity is being increased and warming centres are being opened.
You have a preexisting preference for which you go hunting to find reasons to support. Your focus is not the homeless it is on keeping facilities opened. Next you will say people need these places for their mental health or something else again ignoring the fact that we are short on PPEs and staff.
If the best you can do is to insult my intelligence that is pretty sad.
When those medical experts have spent long days outside in winter day after day or are making less than the equivalent of $15/hour and can speak to that reality from first-hand experience, I will maybe consider their view that lockdown should go into effect.
Besides, the opinions of the "medical community" are very complex. It's only the medical experts who support lockdown that are receiving attention because that reinforces the media narrative. You're not hearing from medical experts who question unless you search things out yourself and you do your own research.
So far I am aware of one full-blown outbreak and a few known exposures. Besides, everybody knows there is a risk to coronavirus, and these gatherings can be a place where they can find emotional, social, and community support. What right does anybody have to tell them where they can and cannot gather?
What consenting adults do in their own homes and who they allow in are nobody's business, pandemic or no, and I really don't want to see expansion of any police or surveillance infrastructure go towards this enforcement, especially since we know it will be retained and then redirected against left-wing activits once the pandemic is over. Besides, I don't really trust the claim that private house gathering spread covid any more than they would spread any other infectious disease. So far that claim has been made by politicians and government ministers who constantly lie to the public, and media organizations that have a great deal to gain by making everyone scared of covid. It's the same story we heard all the time: Easter/Mother's Day/Victoria Day/Canada Day/August Long/Labour Day/Thanksgiving, almost on cue timed just to strike fear into people's hearts. Has anybody offered up any actual evidence that this is the case?
I live a few blocks away from an urban drop-in centre downtown. When the pandemic hit, they had to close their doors inside and all they could do was have people line up, grab their lunches, and go on their way. Had health officials consulted with them, I'm sure they would have said, "this drop-in provides a vital service to these people, and we believe that the threats to their physical and mental health from not having this space open far outweigh the risk of the coronavirus."
And that can very easily trigger health problems that are more severe and long-lasting than what the pandemic would have been. If a lockdown saves a person's life from covid, only to trigger poor habits that compromise that person's health and those habits result in a premature death down the road, I don't see how that can be defended from a public health perspective.
Maybe I would be more open to lockdowns if I believed they did some good, but I honestly believe that for the most part, the virus does what it wants to and lockdowns only give people the illusion of control over the pandemic. Even here in Manitoba, cases continued to go up even after it was mandatory for everybody to wear masks in any indoor spaces for a month. New case numbers are down in Manitoba sharply from where they were a few days ago, which cannot be explained by the lockdown measures. The new infection curve looks like it's at the crest in Ontario and (while bouncing around somewhat on each day) in Quebec. Saskatchewan is doing very well compared to us (have they ever had a new daily case count in the triple digits?), and I think a big factor is a higher level of population immunity from their multiple outbreaks in the spring. Furthermore, case numbers are a bit misleading. I was talking to someone the other day who had to isolate after testing positive for covid even without showing symptoms. Positive cases can range anywhere from asymptomatic to a miserable cough and sore throat to flat-tired on one's back to in an ICU. Is there any actual public health reason to publish case numbers, especially since it depends in large part on the amount of testing?
I can deal with stress and depression being in my life for the next 5-10 years over being hospitalized in ICU and mabye never leaving in the immediate future. It's as simple as that in my view. Acute disease treatment always trumps chronic disease treatment - or at least it should. The whole practice of triage in based on that assumption.
Manitoba First Nations communities bearing the brunt of the covid pandemic
To know that almost half of cases admitted to the ICU are Aboriginal blows my mind.
I'm pretty sure you are wrong about that. I haven't heard of any complaining of being shut down. They want to protect their workers and clients from Covid too. We are expanding services (not enough) but hotels are being transformed into shelters, warming centres are planned etc.
I was just in touch with "1 Just City" and they are still operating and providing services, even if limited by COVID-19 safety precautions. Here is a link that describes what they are doing during the pandemic:
https://www.1justcity.ca/covid-19-response
I'm pretty sure since I live in the area and know people connected to this drop-in that I know what I'm talking about.
Thank you for that update laine. It helps to have more information about how organizations are managing with the covid situation.