Social distancing, class, and hypocrisy

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Aristotleded24 wrote:

Pondering wrote:
There is only one measure and it has nothing to do with anyone's opinions or the socio-economic backgrounds of doctors. 

As always look to the health care facilities in your own community. Are nurses being forced to work overtime?

Yes they are. This has been an ongoing issue for several years due to underinvestment in health care. Why that justifies locking down the population, when lockdowns don't even curtail the spread (remember that among poorer communities in Toronto, covid spread accelerated among the poorer areas of the city).

You forgot this part..."Are they able to take vacations? Is there extra capacity to take care of all patients if there is a covid-19 surge?"

Lockdowns do curtail the spread with varying successes depending on individual conditions. 

That covid spread continued accelerating in the poorer areas of the city does not mean it would not have accelerated without restrictions. It has been very well documented that restrictions are not as effective for essential workers and those living in more crowded multi-generational homes. Their condition would not improve by having Covid accelerating in all communities. They would have even less access to health care than they already do. 

Yes, there has been longterm underfunding of health care. That means we have even less surge capacity than other places that do fund their health care systems better, yet still have restrictions. 

Your insistence that restrictions don't work is rooted in your misunderstanding of what restrictions are intended to accomplish. They are intended to slow transmission not stop it and certainly not eradicate it. 

Contagious diseases passed through human to human contact increase and decrease depending on the frequency and type of human to human contact.  That isn't debatable. 

Which restrictions to use and how effective each type is can be debated. 


JKR wrote:

Scientific consensus on the COVID-19 pandemic: we need to act now; The Lancet; 31 October 2020


Effective measures that suppress and control transmission need to be implemented widely, and they must be supported by financial and social programmes that encourage community responses and address the inequities that have been amplified by the pandemic.


Japan, Vietnam, and New Zealand, to name a few countries, have shown that robust public health responses can control transmission, allowing life to return to near-normal, and there are many such success stories. The evidence is very clear: controlling community spread of COVID-19 is the best way to protect our societies and economies until safe and effective vaccines and therapeutics arrive within the coming months. We cannot afford distractions that undermine an effective response; it is essential that we act urgently based on the evidence.

You mean how the fact that Japan is currently experiencing its third wave of covid makes the country a success? I guess by that metric Canada must be more successful because nationally we are near the top of our second wave.


Something we can all get behind:

For 2nd day in a row, Ontario associate chief medical officer of health Dr. Yaffe calls out lack of paid sick time, evictions ban as contributing to COVID spread. “It’s not like we’re saying people are doing this on purpose … People need to be supported to do the right thing."


What's going on in India?

Following some news articles announcing India had reached near herd immunity and widespread reports on the ground of services and businesses opening up [1], most of the country has once again locked down this month following a reported ‘surge’ in cases and ‘spikes’ in deaths and the herd immunity hypothesis being withdrawn [2/3]. The figures circulated on mainstream media sound huge but are small in the context of India’s total population. By my calculations using the government’s own cumulative data since March 2020, only 0.95% of the population (13.7 million) have tested positive for SARS COV2 and 171,000 of those cases had COVID 19 entered on their death certificates, which amounts to 0.0124% of the entire population; just over one every ten thousand [4/5]. To protect those vulnerable to fatal infection the remaining 99.9% have suffered lockdown and all the attendant hardships. 80% of India’s population work in the informal sector on a day to day, hand to mouth basis and many have again suffered a loss of income [6].

India has much greater public health problems than that posed by SARS COV2 which comes nowhere near the top ten causes of death, trumped by the following highly communicable diseases: diarrhoea at 720,000 deaths per annum, lower respiratory tract infections at 520,000 deaths per annum and tuberculosis at 450,000 deaths per annum  [7]. India has never locked down to prevent these fatalities which are a regular annual occurrence. So, why does the spread of SARS COV2 warrant locking down the population once more? In the light of the data presented above, the public health rationale doesn’t appear to make sense given a far greater burden is presented by other communicable diseases that proliferate unchecked.

This shows why we must question the motivations of anyone claiming that an urgent priority for global health right now should be to vaccinate everyone in the world with the covid vaccine, or the idea that we have to keep massive restrictions (including travel restrictions with developing nations, which in particular hurts the newcomer families that the left claims to care so much about) or public health measure in place (possibly for years) until this happens.


India shows the fundamental weakness of a impoverished nation using a British style federal democracy. Nothing gets done in emergencies. Their elite controlled "democracy" is not only criminally negligent in its support of its population but often brutally murderous at the best of times. COVID is almost the least of their problems. In countries with a functioning government they would not be starting with such a public health and safety deficit.

voice of the damned

kropotkin1951 wrote:

India shows the fundamental weakness of a impoverished nation using a British style federal democracy.

Is Britain known for being a FEDERAL democracy?


voice of the damned wrote:
kropotkin1951 wrote:

India shows the fundamental weakness of a impoverished nation using a British style federal democracy.

Is Britain known for being a FEDERAL democracy?

No but British style democracies most certainly are, like Canada, India, Australia, etc. Of course devolution has almost created a federation because any attempt by London to overturn legislation passed in Scotland or Wales would certainly lead to a constitutional crisis.



This is why social distancing mandates should have been rejected by the left:

Manitoba's Opposition New Democrats have received a warning, but no fine, for holding an outdoor news conference that attracted a large crowd during the COVID-19 pandemic.

NDP Leader Wab Kinew says two enforcement officials visited his legislature office recently and left after issuing a warning about the event.

The provincial Justice Department did not comment other than to say its investigation has concluded and no fines will be issued.

Kinew held a news conference outside Manitoba Hydro headquarters in downtown Winnipeg in mid-March and was joined by striking workers at the utility.

Outdoor public gatherings at the time were capped at 10 people under COVID-19 health orders, and several dozen people attended the news conference.

Kinew says he offered to pay any fines when he received the warning.

With social distancing top of mind, any time there is a protest people are going to watch for social distancing violations. The group's critics will watch for it in order to distract from the protest, and the media will watch for it because it gives them easy clickbait to get attention while being able to ignore the issue that sparked the protest in the first place. Even the most thoughtful, carefully organized protest is easily derailed by one person not wearing a mask or doing social distancing. Suddenly, it becomes all about a group disobeying the social distancing rules, the issue that sparked the protest is forgotten in the public mind, and instead of advancing its cause, the group is forced to play defense.

Unfortunately this is not the last time something like this is going to happen.