Forty-nine dead, 53 injured in Florida nightclub shooting

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NorthReport

The fact that this shooter was interviewed 3 times bu the FBI means that this tragedy is only going to hasten our march towards a police state with its ensuing loss of individual freedoms Too bad

Misfit Misfit's picture

And the "Anglo-Saxon" guy from Indiana on the other coast, the newspaper article pointed out that he was bi-sexual. But what was his religious upbringing? His whiteness, maleness, Christianness, and Americanness is somehow not an issue. He is reported to be bi-sexual, though.

Taliesyn

Mr. Magoo wrote:

Quote:
...Therefore, the LGBTQ community is incompatible with the larger Muslim community.

Really?

I mean, maybe the much, much SMALLER Muslim community. 

Clearly you don't know much about Islam.  Go into almost any mosque and you will get a sermon from the imam about the evils of homosexuality, of the mixing of the sexes, of living among the infidels.  Of course, you will need to understand Arabic or Urdu to get their true views.  While I agree there are many individual muslims who do not believe these hateful things, it is far more common amongst muslims than christians.  And homosexuality is outlawed in EVERY muslim majority country in the world, and the punishment is often death.  

Quote:
So the left needs to choose sides.

It has.  No more homophobia!

I agree 100%.  So stop making excuses for fundamentalist Islam.

bekayne
bekayne

Taliesyn wrote:

And homosexuality is outlawed in EVERY muslim majority country in the world, and the punishment is often death.  

Not true. Check the wiki article.

NorthReport

The LA Times is reporting police were slow to respond as well Mateen's coworker at G4S notified his employer many times and eventually quit his job over Mateen's behaviour His coworker said he was expecting something bad to happen

Orange Crushed

Great, one form of deadly hatred is being used to justify another. 

This world is crazy. 

My heart goes out to all those who have lost loved ones. 

lagatta

Many of the vigils were that evening; fortunately for us the vigil here is on Thursday at a little park in the Gay Village, near Radio-Canada and Beaudry métro https://www.facebook.com/events/1032596896831720/ We are supposed to wear pink squares; I'll have to find some pink felt. I imagine that the MNA of that riding, Manon Massé, will be present.

mark_alfred

Antonia Zerbisias wrote:
I think we have a very dangerous cocktail being mixed in the U.S.

  • The American going-out-in-a-blaze-of-glory myth
  • Assault weapons freely available
  • Young men with more anger than they know what to do with 
  • Young men who grew up on the violence of movies, video games and a kind of emotional detachment/ alienation
  • Lives with no meaning
  • Lack of resources for mentally ill
  • Media quick to make killers famous 
  • Social media which allow self-aggrandizement
  • Add your own ...

ygtbk

mark_alfred wrote:

Antonia Zerbisias wrote:
I think we have a very dangerous cocktail being mixed in the U.S.

  • The American going-out-in-a-blaze-of-glory myth
  • Assault weapons freely available
  • Young men with more anger than they know what to do with 
  • Young men who grew up on the violence of movies, video games and a kind of emotional detachment/ alienation
  • Lives with no meaning
  • Lack of resources for mentally ill
  • Media quick to make killers famous 
  • Social media which allow self-aggrandizement
  • Add your own ...

This sounds like she's being deliberately obtuse by leaving out both ISIS and hatred of gays. Perhaps I'm missing some context?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3637414/Everyone-running-Gunman-bursts-gay-nightclub-Florida-shoots-20-people-taking-hostages.html

Taliesyn

bekayne wrote:

Taliesyn wrote:

And homosexuality is outlawed in EVERY muslim majority country in the world, and the punishment is often death.  

Not true. Check the wiki article.

I did.  A handful (Lebanon, Jordan, Bahrain, Turkey, Iraq) have legalized homosexual activity.  However, if you were to set foot in these countries you woudl find it is still widely frowned upon.  I would also expect Turkey, under Erdogan, will reverse this as they move to a more "Islamic" viewpoint - unless the lure of EU membership is greater.  But across North Africa and the bulk of the middle east homosexual activity is still illegal.  ISIS, like Saudi Arabia, still executes suspected homosexuals.

Misfit Misfit's picture

How many gazillion muslims live in the United States and don't shoot gay people? i don't want this becoming an anti muslim thread.

Misfit Misfit's picture

And the Roman Catholic Church used to tie gay people to bundles of sticks and set them on fire, so your point is???

6079_Smith_W

Taliesyn:

I suppose that is why the Islamic centre in Orlando held a vigil in support of the murdered people last night. Why a representative from that community spoke at the vigil here last night.

And why according to his co-worker the murderer hated African Americans as much as he did women and LGBT people, even though there is nothing about that in the Koran.

And why the Ottomans legalized homosexuality before any European nation did, back in the 1800s.

There are haters in all communities, and right now those who are in the majority are loving the fact that they can turn this and blame it all on Islam, even though they have done far more to oppress and attack LGBT people than any Muslims. Orange Crushed and Misfit are right. 

Know what I heard more than anything last night? You can't fight hate with hate. MLK's observation that you cannot drive out darkness with darkness. And that love is stronger than fear.

Probably heard it repeated five times. You'd think it is simple enough that people would get it, but evidently it takes awhile for it to sink in.

 

 

 

JohnInAlberta JohnInAlberta's picture

6079_Smith_W wrote:

Really? You don't see any connection between the organized campaigns demonizing LGBT people, and people who act on it? And this is hardly the only act of anti-gay violence.

Never mind that many of them are cheering it, and blaming the victims:

Pastor Steven Anderson: "fifty less pedophiles in the world"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUOBFjRGvPI&feature=youtu.be

Hours after the early Sunday morning shooting at a gay nightclub that left at least 50 people dead, Patrick sent a tweet from his personal account: “Do not be deceived. God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows.”

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/texas-lieutenant-gov-deletes-tweet-w...

That's all absolutely shitty, irrational and delusional but I still maintain that a bunch of asshole xtians had nothing to do with the shooter: he wasn't influenced by xtianity and he didn't buy into the xtian right message: he came to be from his own iteration of hateful Abrahamic dogma and his voting record indicated a left lean (by USian standards, anyway).

In no way am I saying that Pat Robertson (for example) and his ilk aren't an issue but this particular individual was a follower of islam and it's tenets.  None of it can be defended but the accurate statement is that "this was islamic-influenced terrorism", plain and simple.

JohnInAlberta JohnInAlberta's picture

Misfit wrote:
How many gazillion muslims live in the United States and don't shoot gay people? i don't want this becoming an anti muslim thread.

"How many gazillion xtians are there in the United States who don't attack women at Planned Parenthood clinics?"

"How many gazillion firearms are there in the United States that aren't used to shoot people?"

I'm sorry if I seem obtuse WRT this issue but excuses like this have to stop; they do nothing to help resolve it.  Religion ends up being a societal problem almost everywhere it has a toehold: it is, by definition, divisive, xenophobic and misogynist.  "Faith" has no place in any remotely modern society.

Misfit Misfit's picture

This mass murder happened in the United States by an American citizen who had security clearance to buy guns and was cleared by the FBI of suspicion numerous times. An ex-partner emphasized that this man was not religious. And another attempted mass murder was thwarted yesterday on a gay parade by another American citizen who has an assumed Christian identity, yet nothing is being said about Christianity or Christianity's violent past nor treatment of gay people. And heck, we also have to be careful not to use the word homophobia hastily lest we offend some other's sensibilities on this issue. So, the media and the anti-muslim zealots now have free reign to spin this as a "muslim immigrant terrorist attack" and to use this as an opportunity to spew hatred against Muslims around the world.

MegB

lagatta wrote:

That person insulted "the left" on a leftist site. Look at the crap he writes on his own site:

The NDP as problematic for me, because they are the party of socialism – and socialism has failed in EVERY instance where it has been tried.  Mulcair isn’t really a hardcore socialist – he was a Liberal MNA in Quebec, which just about makes him a Conservative.  But others in his party, who he would need to draw on to form a cabinet, scare me a lot more.  These are people who think Naomi Klein and David Suzuki are sane and rational.   And some of their promises will have EXACTLY the opposite effect they hope they will.

Fuck you. Have you read our policy statement?

Here is the rest of his Tory filth:

http://www.technicalbard.com/archives/1216

You have every right to freedom of speech, but this is actually a PRIVATE site and you have to abide by rabble and babble policy. Is that too much for a Randian free-marketer who wants to oppress the working class and poor to understand?

Fuck you again. Fuck off and die.

This creep claims to be a techie, but he is a climate change denier!

WAY over the top lagatta.

swallow swallow's picture

Taliesyn wrote:

I did.  A handful (Lebanon, Jordan, Bahrain, Turkey, Iraq) have legalized homosexual activity.  However, if you were to set foot in these countries you woudl find it is still widely frowned upon.  I would also expect Turkey, under Erdogan, will reverse this as they move to a more "Islamic" viewpoint - unless the lure of EU membership is greater.  But across North Africa and the bulk of the middle east homosexual activity is still illegal.  ISIS, like Saudi Arabia, still executes suspected homosexuals.

The largest Muslim country in the world is Indonesia, which has no laws against homosexuality at all. 

Saudi Arabia - armed by our wonderful; government - and ISIS are hate regimes, no question. Their religion does not amke them so, howe3ver, their hatred does. 

I'll be sure and remind myself that every incident of gay-bashing I've experienced in Canada is due to the flaws of "Islam," though. 

Fuck you for taking this homophobic hate crime and trying to peddle more hate against another minority. 

Misfit Misfit's picture

Maybe the white male from Indiana with the Acura who was arrested yesterday was baptized as an infant? Why is this not newsworthy? I'll bet ya he was baptized. Yep! That is what good white Amrrican boys are...baptized!

6079_Smith_W

My point, JohninAlberta, is that the vast majority of anti-LGBT hatred, attacks, and laws are coming not from Islam, but from our society, and to a great degree from haters within organized Christian religion. They are the ones refusing to recognize gay-straight alliances in their schools, they are the ones calling gays pedophiles, denying marriage equality, and refusing to allow trans people from using the bathroom.

And while this is the largest mass murder in American history all you have to do is open the newspapers to see reports of LGBT people beaten and murdered every day. So yes there is a link in that they set this climate of hatred, and trying to pass it all of on Islam, as is being done by some in this thread, is denying the far greater responsibility that the rest of us bear.

And they are the ones who can't bring themselves to admit that it is even about LGBT people at all, like Florida's governor.

Apparently he did it because he is "anti-enjoyment":

http://www.boyculture.com/boy_culture/2016/06/astonishing-circular-argum...

Another think our culture does - minimize the people actually being attacked and make it all about us and and our prejudices.

And yes, I know not all Christians did this. That isn't what I said. I said that the vast majority of that hatred is not coming from Islam, but from haters within religions in our dominant society, and those who blame this all on Islam are missing that.

Go back and read the original tweet I posted.

 

 

Misfit Misfit's picture

Whether you go to church and practice your religion or not, everyone has a religious identity or a family background that is tied to a religious denomination. If a person is an atheist, then they are taking an active stance against all religions and more particularity, against the religious identity of their family. There were two attempted mass murders against gay people yesterday. Yet, the media identified the religious affiliation of only one of the two assailants. Both were male. Both were American citizens. Their maleness and their Americanness is both being downplayed in the media. And only the muslim was targeted by the media for his religious affiliation.

Unionist

Wow, is it ever easy for trolls to drop in, take over, and turn the conversation toxic.

Somehow this thread has become about RELIGION. Did you notice? Religion, ffs??

If they can do it here, imagine how this will play out in that anti-human society to the south of us.

This is really sad.

 

pookie

Misfit wrote:
This mass murder happened in the United States by an American citizen who had security clearance to buy guns and was cleared by the FBI of suspicion numerous times. An ex-partner emphasized that this man was not religious. And another attempted mass murder was thwarted yesterday on a gay parade by another American citizen who has an assumed Christian identity, yet nothing is being said about Christianity or Christianity's violent past nor treatment of gay people. And heck, we also have to be careful not to use the word homophobia hastily lest we offend some other's sensibilities on this issue. So, the media and the anti-muslim zealots now have free reign to spin this as a "muslim immigrant terrorist attack" and to use this as an opportunity to spew hatred against Muslims around the world.

I agree with much of this.  But I found that news conference by the ex-wife strange TBH.  They were married for four months after meeting online.  They had not been in contact in years.  She really wasn't in a position to comment on his current state of mind or religious proclivities.  It was, for example, reported that he attended a local mosque on Friday.

There simply isn't enough information to say with certainty what did not motivate him.

NDPP

Orlando Shooter Omar Mateen Not First G4S Employee To Go On Deadly Rampage

https://www.rt.com/uk/346492-orlando-shootings-g4s-vetting/

Orlando nightclub shooter Omar Mateen is not the first employee of British security giant G4S to go on a rampage. Sunday morning's attacks in Florida has raised questions over the quality of vetting procedures among the firm's recruits.

The British firm is one of the world's biggest military and security providers. It employs more than half a million people - many of them ex-military in 110 countries including conflict zones like Iraq and Afghanistan.

Mateen's ex wife Sitora YuSufi has since told the press that during their 4 month marriage he repeatedly abused her, was emotionally unstable and displayed signs of bipolar disorder. She also said he expressed anger toward gay people..."

JohnInAlberta JohnInAlberta's picture

6079_Smith_W wrote:

My point, JohninAlberta, is that the vast majority of anti-LGBT hatred, attacks, and laws are coming not from Islam, but from our society, and to a great degree from haters within organized Christian religion. They are the ones refusing to recognize gay-straight alliances in their schools, they are the ones calling gays pedophiles, denying marriage equality, and refusing to allow trans people from using the bathroom.

...

And yes, I know not all Christians did this. That isn't what I said. I said that the vast majority of that hatred is not coming from Islam, but from haters within religions in our dominant society, and those who blame this all on Islam are missing that.

I think we agree that anti-LGBT rhetoric and violence originates from the religion of the majority in any given area, thus my despising all of them ... just like societal misogyny originates from xtianity, islam and orthodox judaism depending on where in the world you are.  I admit that I'm extremely prejudiced against those who express themselves as "religious" because of this.  

Having said that, each case should be looked at individually; I don't believe I ever stated that "islam is to blame for homophobia in general" -- and if I came across like that I can only apologize -- but in this particular case, yes, I think it can be held accountable for the negative influence it held over the mass-murderer.

6079_Smith_W

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/12/queer-muslims-mourn...

Quote:

We are now used to the fact that, every time a criminally misguided Muslim commits an act of violence, the entire religion and all its followers are questioned and placed under suspicion in a way that isn’t replicated with other faiths. We – and this of course includes queer Muslims – have to take extra care walking down the street at night and entering our mosques for fear of Islamophobic attacks. Muslim organizations and activist groups are tasked with the responsibility of releasing public statements, apologizing for the actions of terrorists and reminding the world that Islam promotes peace so innocent Muslims who are just trying to go about their daily lives don’t suffer repercussions.

 

Never mind that having to spend energy doing this defensive work takes away from dealing with the central issue here - anti-gay hatred.

 

 

 

 

 

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

An American citizen with legally attained assault weapon kills over 50 because he was a raging homophobe. People can blame religion til the cows come home. But this was a US citizen who had been under investigation 3 times in the past 5 years.

Seems to me someone didn't do their job. And Murica thinks it's 'freedom' to be armed to the teeth so this happens again and again and again. Americans don't care,they always pick their guns over reason. Why should I care?

6079_Smith_W
NorthReport

What the US is dealing with here is Home Grown Extreminism and Lax Gun Controls

We need to stop using the word terrorism to describe such events because the word terrorism in today's world implies something foreign whereas this was another murderous act committed by an American on other Americans

mark_alfred

ygtbk wrote:

mark_alfred wrote:

Antonia Zerbisias wrote:
I think we have a very dangerous cocktail being mixed in the U.S.

  • The American going-out-in-a-blaze-of-glory myth
  • Assault weapons freely available
  • Young men with more anger than they know what to do with 
  • Young men who grew up on the violence of movies, video games and a kind of emotional detachment/ alienation
  • Lives with no meaning
  • Lack of resources for mentally ill
  • Media quick to make killers famous 
  • Social media which allow self-aggrandizement
  • Add your own ...

This sounds like she's being deliberately obtuse by leaving out both ISIS and hatred of gays. Perhaps I'm missing some context?

No, you're not missing any context.  I feel she's hit the nail on the head regarding the root cause of many of these mass shootings and/or acts of violence. 

Misfit Misfit's picture

Where is the plethora of female mass murderers?

swallow swallow's picture

Yeah, blaming religion is stupid. It's young straight men who need to be profiled and policed. 

[url=http://www.salon.com/2016/06/13/overcompensation_nation_its_time_to_admi... Nation: It’s time to admit that toxic masculinity drives gun violence[/url]

bagkitty bagkitty's picture

commentoveratJMG wrote:

There's a very, very weird effort out there to strip the gay out of this story - which is astonishing given the people killed and where they were at the time. But it's a real thing - don't you let people make this about terrorism. WE were the ones sought out and killed. Make them say the word.

The comment appears in response to a story about the MSM trying to hammer this square peg of an anti-LGBT hate crime into the round hole of its preoccupation with "Terrorism (Inc.?)". It is definitely worth reading the piece, and watching the attached video - it is worth watching because it is one of the rare times the machinations of the MSM in framing a story truly goes off the rails. Hats off to Owen Jones from the Guardian for refusing to play along.

Last night I sat through the CBC's Wendy Mesley hosting the Sunday night panel discussing the attack - the panelists were a Toronto based academic specializing in international affairs, a Kingston based academic specializing in "security" and a third individual (no indication if he was an academic or not) who is recognizable as one of CBC's "go to" anti-jihadi Muslims. At least within the context of this discussion, none of participants dropped the pearls and identified themselves as part of the LGBT communities -- I guess they have figured out it easier to frame the discussion in the approved manner if your "go to" list of panelists doesn't include anyone who might rock the boat.

I am completely disgusted with how the MSM is handling all this - they are refusing to contextualize what happened. I posted something over on Towleroad on this...

me wrote:

I am fuming after having watched the CBC (the Canadian national broadcaster) devote an entire panel discussion to this as an instance of "Islamicist" terror. It was a hate crime, it was a hate crime nurtured in the theological cesspool that is the southern U.S. - it was fertilized by the hundreds of pieces of anti-gay legislation in state and local governments, it was watered by the courting of anti-gay clerics by the Republican party (Kevin Swanson being probably the most notorious) - it was the chickens coming home to roost after the shameless pandering to the homophobic ravings of bible/koran/torah wavers by state and federal politicians - anxious to perpetuate the lie that they were defending religious freedom when they were, in fact, enabling religious entitlement and license. The murderer was not someone alienated from the society he was living in, he was simply a slightly distorted reflection of the deeply disturbed religious hysteria that surrounded him. He could have just as easily been a Christian fire-bombing the club.

swallow swallow's picture

Stanley Almodovar III, age 23
Peter O. Gonzalez-Cruz, age 22
Juan Ramon Guerrero, age 22
Luis Omar Ocasio-Capo, age 20
Eric Ivan Ortiz-Rivera, age 36
Edward Sotomayor Jr., age 34
Luis S. Vielma, age 22
Eddie Jamoldroy Justice, 30
Darryl Roman Burt II, 29
Deonka Deidra Drayton, 32
Alejandro Barrios Martinez, 21
Anthony Luis Laureanodisla, 25
Jean Carlos Mendez Perez, 35
Franky Jimmy Dejesus Velazquez, 50
Amanda Alvear, 25
Martin Benitez Torres, 33
Luis Daniel Wilson-Leon, 37
Mercedez Marisol Flores, 26
Xavier Emmanuel Serrano Rosado, 35
Gilberto Ramon Silva Menendez, 25

mark_alfred
JohnInAlberta JohnInAlberta's picture

(This may seem tangential at first; please be patient).

I'm not a huge fan of Apple's products these days; "innovation" seems to be a bit of a lost watchword at One Infinite Loop since Steve Jobs' passing.  Today, however, I could not be more pleased with the CEO of the company, Tim Cook.  At today's World Wide Developer Conference Mr. Cook started the keynote -- which is always watched "by millions of people" worldwide -- by asking for a moment of silence for the victims of the Orlando mass murder.  

Contrasted with many (most?) corporations which are so afraid of "alienating" or "offending" the religious population, it's really great to see such a large firm take a progressive stance which may indeed cost it customers amongst some of the more backwards nooks of the US and the rest of the world.

mark_alfred

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/10/03/us/how-mass-shooters-got-t...

Seems there's lots of these mass shootings in the States.  Note that there's a wide variety of people perpetuating these crimes (IE, there's no single race or religion or ideology common to all the shooters -- with the exception that they're almost all men (only one woman is listed here)).  And note that the weapons were mostly legally obtained, rather than bought off the black market.  And it's either automatic/semi-automatic rifles or handguns.  No handguns (Canada would be wise to ban them as well) and no automatic rifles allowed would help stem this, I feel.

contrarianna

Misfit wrote:
Where is the plethora of female mass murderers?

Very few, but one may be about to become president.
https://www.salon.com/2016/06/10/fbi_criminal_investigation_emails_clint...

Misfit Misfit's picture

Yes, I'll take issue with what you just posted. There have only been three female Secretaries of State in the entire history of the United States: Madeline Albright, Condoleeza Rice, and Hillary Clinton. The United States has been engaged in horrific violent warfare throughout it's entire history, yet you attack a women in a position of authority and use it distastefully against her, but say absolutely nothing about the other male Secretaries of State who sanctioned blood thirsty warfare with Henry Kissinger being but one notorious example. Do you call Canadian soldiers who served in WWI and WWII mass murderers? They were killing in the act of duty. So singling Hillary Clinton out because she was the Secretary of State at the time, and is now running for President of the United States is sexist and demeaning.

Unionist

Quite right. Clinton should not be singled out.

[url=http://tsl.news/opinions/5757/]An Open Letter From Scripps Faculty on Commencement Speaker Madeleine Albright[/url]

Quote:

As concerned Scripps faculty members, we are outraged at the selection of Madeleine Albright as the 2016 Commencement speaker and will not participate in this year’s graduation ceremony. 

We are all familiar with Albright’s recent problematic statement that “there is a special place in hell for women who do not support other women.” Our opposition to her speaking at commencement, however, has to do with her record during her service as U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations and U.S. Secretary of State. In those roles, she supported several policies that led to the deaths of millions of people.  

[url=http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/03/17/condoleezza-rice-rutgers_n_4980... Faculty Doesn’t Want ‘War Criminal’ Condoleezza Rice To Give Commencement Speech[/url]

Quote:
On Thursday, professors at Rutgers-Newark voted to call on the administration todisinvite the former United States Secretary of State because of her role in the Iraq War and in the Bush administration’s torture program. Last month, professors at the larger Rutgers-New Brunswick campus voted in favor of an almost identical resolution.

 

 

6079_Smith_W

Can we maybe leave it to those on the right to deflect this tragedy and water down who the targets of this hate crime were?

There are enough of them doing it, after all.

 

 

Misfit Misfit's picture

For the record, I spelled Condoleezza wrong. You can add that to the "spelling errors of people's names that I purposely look up before I type them in so that I don't get them wrong but get them wrong anyway" list.

Unionist

6079_Smith_W wrote:

Can we maybe leave it to those on the right to deflect this tragedy and water down who the targets of this hate crime were?

To quote myself:

Unionist wrote:
This is a hate crime against LGBTQ people. It is a crime of the unrestrained firearms cartel against innocent civilians. It is a crime against humanity by the United States and its economic/political elites - the ones who are getting ready to replace Obama by another of their own.

Which of those elements of this tragedy would you like us to de-emphasize?

 

contrarianna

Misfit wrote:
Yes, I'll take issue with what you just posted. There have only been three female Secretaries of State in the entire history of the United States: Madeline Albright, Condoleeza Rice, and Hillary Clinton. The United States has been engaged in horrific violent warfare throughout it's entire history, yet you attack a women in a position of authority and use it distastefully against her, but say absolutely nothing about the other male Secretaries of State who sanctioned blood thirsty warfare with Henry Kissinger being but one notorious example.....

It was you who raised the question about gender and mass murder.

Positions of great power to freely act on malevolent impulses is indeed relavent to the question.

There are obviously very many extremely able and caring women in the US who could easily fill the entirity of all government positions, thus making it by far the best government it ever had.

That does not mean that the 3 you mentioned would be among them. Whatever the reasons, personal and/or institiutional, these people have embodied the most destructive dimensions of the administrations they have been in.

Clinton, as revealed by successive FOI email releases, has demonstrated that she was always on the most militarily aggressive side of the Obama administration pushing against POTUS for more war and killing. The first victims of her actions are women:

Quote:
Foreign Policy in Focus columnist Conn Hallinan recently took on the grim task of attempting to tally those killed in foreign policy disasters related to Clinton. According to some calculations, the 2003 U.S.-led invasion of Iraq killed over one million people due to war-related causes. Nearly a quarter million Afghans have died since the 2001 U.S. invasion of Afghanistan, and millions more have been forced to flee their homes and become refugees.
In June 2014, I spoke with Yanar Mohammed of the Organization of Women’s Freedom in Iraq, who warned against further U.S. military intervention in the country. “These wars are against women,” Mohammed said, “and women are becoming the first victims.”

https://www.salon.com/2016/02/10/dear_madeline_albright_and_gloria_stein...

As for the notorious war criminal Kissinger you bring up--a close friend and mentor: “Kissinger is a friend, and I relied on his counsel when I served as secretary of state”.... 

Quote:
Henry Kissinger, Hillary Clinton’s Tutor in War and PeaceLast night, Clinton once again praised a man with a lot of blood on his hands.
http://www.thenation.com/article/henry-kissinger-hillary-clintons-tutor-...

mark_alfred

https://theintercept.com/2016/06/13/stop-exploiting-lgbt-issues-to-demon...

Article on the folly of using this hate crime as an excuse to target Muslims in general.

Quote:
Depicting anti-LGBT hatred as the exclusive (or even predominant) province of Islam is not only defamatory toward Muslims but does a massive disservice to the millions of LGBTs who have been – and continue to be – seriously oppressed, targeted, and attacked by people [who] have nothing to do with Islam. The struggle of LGBTs around the world is difficult enough without having them cynically used as some sort of prop to bash a group that itself is already being bashed from multiple directions.

6079_Smith_W

Unionist wrote:

Which of those elements of this tragedy would you like us to de-emphasize?

Do I really need to spell out what I am talking about? Or should I wait until someone jumps in and explains how Putin is the victim here.

There's lots of people making lots of hay with this, some of it valid and some of it frankly gratuitous. 

We might all think this is a tragedy, but most of us don't feel it so personally that we have to think about the prospect of walking to the corner bar and having the same thing happen to us.

http://thestarphoenix.com/news/local-news/orlando-shootings-confirm-need...

Quote:

The Orlando shooting confirms the need for extra security measures, and to never run from the fight for equality, says the manager of Saskatoon’s oldest gay nightclub.

“I’d like to think nothing like that could happen here, but it proves why we do all this. It’s about being accepted,” said Divas Nightclub general manager Aaron Paetsch.

Like I said, there are enough people on the right moving this away from the central issue. How about we leave the white house for at least until we know the scope of this anti LGBT hate crime. Sorry to be a stick in the mud, but I got more immediate things on my mind. THings that aren't being already dealt with in 15 different threads.

swallow swallow's picture

Putting the relative merits of Secretaries of State and their respective death tolls in another thread would be fab. 

Unionist

swallow wrote:

Putting the relative merits of Secretaries of State and their respective death tolls in another thread would be fab. 

Perhaps. But ignoring/denying the thesis that this murderous, imperialistic state enables massacres of all kinds - homophobic, mysoginistic, random, overseas - that would not be fab. It would be whitewashing the United States and its crimes against its own people and people around the world.

 

contrarianna

mark_alfred wrote:

https://theintercept.com/2016/06/13/stop-exploiting-lgbt-issues-to-demon...

Article on the folly of using this hate crime as an excuse to target Muslims in general.

Quote:
Depicting anti-LGBT hatred as the exclusive (or even predominant) province of Islam is not only defamatory toward Muslims but does a massive disservice to the millions of LGBTs who have been – and continue to be – seriously oppressed, targeted, and attacked by people [who] have nothing to do with Islam. The struggle of LGBTs around the world is difficult enough without having them cynically used as some sort of prop to bash a group that itself is already being bashed from multiple directions.

I agree

His supposed late adoption of religion has little to do with Islam and a lot to do with finding a mirror for his own irrational hate in ISIS. And though ISIS claimed responsibility, there is no evidence of collusion.

Quote:
Co-workers described him as unstable, with one saying he “talked about killing people all the time.”
Mateen is further described by other coworkers as prone to using racial, ethnic, and sexual slurs, and seemed to be in “constant anger.” One co-worker, identified as Daniel Gilroy, said he wasn’t surprised by the shooting and that “I saw it coming.”....

His work as a security guard gave him easier access to legally buying weapons.


http://news.antiwar.com/2016/06/12/islamist-gunman-kills-50-at-orlando-g...

-------

A relevant perspective:

LGBT Muslims Information on Sexual Diversity in the Muslim Community

Quote:
Those of us queer and Muslim have been deeply affected by what happened in Orlando. We are in mourning and stand with our LGBT family. Yet, we have been put in a position where on top of suffering like the rest of the LGBT community we are asked, “How does it feel to be Muslim today?”
There have been LGBT Muslims since there has been Islam, just like there have been LGBT people since there has been any other faith. We are human, first and foremost. As LGBT people LGBT Muslims face whatever LGBT people face; and as Muslim people LGBT Muslims face whatever Muslim people face....

http://islamandhomosexuality.com/we-are-hurting-too/

 

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