Time to seriously consider boycotts against Russia and Sochi

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bagkitty bagkitty's picture
Time to seriously consider boycotts against Russia and Sochi

See below

bagkitty bagkitty's picture

I would recommend that people read the linked article. I would also recommend they NOT watch the video at the end of it unless they have particularly strong stomachs.

bagkitty bagkitty's picture

Dan Savage is issuing a call for a boycott of Russian Vodka in protest of the "Homosexual Propaganda" laws and increasing level of violence against members of the LGBT communities in Russia. There are also rumblings about a boycott of the Winter Olympic Games in Sochi. It looks like Russia seems hell bent on giving Jamaica and Uganda a run for their money as the most homophobic country on the planet.

6079_Smith_W

I understand the frustration and the desire to do something, but I don't see this as being any more effective than the Red Stripe boycott.

Stolichnya's international bottler is in Latvia, not Russia. It is distributed by Scottish company WM Grant and Sons. Russian Standard has a private owner. Neither is an export which is likely to have much effect at all on the Russian government.

If anything, I think drawing international attention around the Olympics is likely to have far more effect.

 

bagkitty bagkitty's picture

To quote the linked article:

DanSavage wrote:
Some are arguing—based on Stoli's outdated Wiki page—that Stoli isn't a Russian vodka. 'Presently the internationally distributed version of Stolichnaya is not a Russian vodka but is distilled and bottled in Latvia,' Stoli's Wiki page reads. 'In 2009, William Grant & Sons signed an agreement to distribute Stolichnaya in the USA, taking over from PepsiCo.' That's old news. On January 1, 2014, Stoli becomes a Russian vodka again. The SPI Group—which will be distributing Stoli in the USA before the Olympic games begin this winter—is owned by Yuri Scheffler, one of the 100 richest men in Russia. Stoli is a Russian vodka

[emphasis added]

6079_Smith_W

Sure, I read that; but they aren't likely to shut that plant, and they need someone to hawk their wares overseas, so those relationships are unlikely to change next year. Do we even know what positions the owners of these companies have taken on Russia's laws? That's the problem I have with this scattergun approach - it is more a feelgood reaction than anything that is likely to have any sort of real effect, and stands to hurt people who have nothing at all to do with the laws.

Again - embarrassing them around the olympics, and similar international fronts, is more likely to have an effect than going after what is a small (if well-known) part of their export market.

 

bagkitty bagkitty's picture

6079, hmmm, did you feel the same way about the boycotts of Chilean and South African wines and spirits in the aftermath of the Pinochet coup and under the Apartheid regime respectively?

lagatta

I faithfully respected those boycotts (Argentina as well as Chile, of course) until at least formal democracy was restored. I almost never drink vodka, and certainly never buy it, but I'm sure there are other Russian products I might boycott.

I'm relieved the marriage equality law passed in France - no problem boycotting French wines, but I have a lot of friends in France, and not all of them are straight... The rightwing movement against marriage equality was very scary indeed, in the country where not only Wilde, Stein and Toklas found greater acceptance than at home, but also many less prominent lgbt people... I'm hoping to be able to go to Paris this autumn (as a side-trip from a work-related trip) and don't think I would if that law had failed. Little as I like any kind of marriage, but equality and freedom are biggies.

6079_Smith_W

As I said, I don't favour the scattergun approach. To use a more relevant example, I didn't consider, not would I support a booze boycott in response fo the murders of journalists in Russia, or other examples of oppression in that country. As someone commented in another forum on this, we could make a similar case for boycotting goods from Dan Savage's country, or any number of jurisdictions.

If people want to do this, fine. It's just not a tactic I support, nor one which I think would be most effective. If you want to do something which will actually hurt, pick something which will have a real effect on that government. Unlike the tactics used against South Africa or Israel, there is no similar broad campaign here.

Again, this just reminds me of the Red Stripe thing which was not well-thought out.

Catchfire Catchfire's picture

Won't someone think of the multi-national billionaire beverage corporations?

Handwringing aside, I think we should start considering a boycott of the Olympics. Hell, it's not even the first time we've done that to Russia!

6079_Smith_W

Um... right, CF.

Look. When the Russian LGBT Network calls for an action like this, then I'll consider it. An American columnist making that call? Not so interested.

And some of us remember that ridiculous round of boycotts.

 

Catchfire Catchfire's picture

On The Fountainhead Pub's (Davie Village, Vancouver) Facebook page:

Effective Immediately,

In light of the recent events occurring in Russia, The Fountainhead Pub will no longer be serving Stolichnaya (“Stoli”), Russian Standard vodka or any other products from Russia. We are doing this to make a small but worthwhile stand. Our thoughts are with the GLBT community members in Russia. We hope that the Russia government sees its error and swiftly corrects it’s decision.

Unionist

6079_Smith_W wrote:

Um... right, CF.

Look. When the Russian LGBT Network calls for an action like this, then I'll consider it. An American columnist making that call? Not so interested.

And some of us remember that ridiculous round of boycotts.

 

Yes. Exactly. An American who finds fault in Russia should actually have his heart examined. What a feeble attempt at diversion. How about a boycott of Saudi Arabia for treating women like, um, less than shit? And I have a huge list of other boycotts that we profoundly moral and upright human beings should undertake as opposed to looking in the mirror.

 

 

Catchfire Catchfire's picture

Unionist, with respect, I don't agree that this is just a "Russia is bad" issue. The IOC released a statement this week explaining why they were powerless to do anything about the prohibition of a "Pride House" at the Olympics. The IOC, like its corporate sponsors, have been spineless in dealing with this blatant (and state-sponsored) attack on gay rights. This is also an attack on the self-serving faux-progressivism of "Olympic values." I think Russian vodka is a fine symbolic place to start for a boycott as this action grows.

That's my personal opinion. As a mod, I will point out that this is the LGBT forum, and I don't think it's appropriate to tell one of our LGBT babblers posting on a campaign against LGBT oppression that he should have his heart examined.

6079_Smith_W

It made me think of a recent interview on As It Happens with an east coast Persian rug importer who is basically being put out of business by Canada's latest embargo against Iran. Yes, different action and different scale I know, but all the same someone caught in an action due to no doing of his own. In this case it is more likely to be laid off workers in Latvia.

Again I appreciate some of the frustration with the situation in that country on numerous issues, and I certainly don't think anyone should be compelled to drink or sell vodka if s/he doesn't want to. But I'm leery of boycotts generally unless they have a very clear focus, and that goes double for symbolic ones, because really, the results aren't symbolic at all.

One could also look at the call for a boycott against an upcoming movie based on a book by Orson Scott Card, and the campaign to have him removed from a position for which he was hired by DC comics. At least one person quit over it. Plenty of people for it, but also some significant voices speaking against it on points of principle.

Likewise, in the wake of the Jamaican boycott there were voices speaking against it as well:

http://outweekly.blogspot.ca/2009/04/no-boycott-for-red-stripe.html

I apologize if it seems like I am being unsupportive on this issue; I assure you I take it seriously. But I think boycotts and embargoes are blunt instruments at the best of times, and often do far more damage than good.

 

bagkitty bagkitty's picture

If you haven't read Towleroad today, here is the relevant link for the latest wherein SPI claims they deserve a pass because they  market to LGBT functions outside of Russia but fail to identify any concrete action taken inside of Russia while, nonetheless, asserting:

SPI wrote:

We fully support and endorse your objectives to fight against prejudice in Russia. In the past decade, SPI has been actively advocating in favor of freedom, tolerance and openness in society, standing very passionately on the side of the LGBT community and will continue to support any effective initiative in that direction.

Their failure to identify any concrete action (even if only one of their marketing campaigns) leaves me wondering when standing (by) became passionate.

Interesting response from Dan Savage too - from the TR article:

Towleroad wrote:

Dan also points out that one of the commenters over at Joe.My.God. makes a very astute observation:

DSavage wrote:

So is the CEO of Stoli now subject to arrest and incarceration in Russia for writing this pro-gay letter?

Food for thought. Even though the CEO and company are based in Luxembourg, the company's owner Yuri Scheffler lives in Russia and the company's production process involves Russia, while this letter openly condemns the Russian government and explicitly supports homosexuality, thus making it "propaganda" under Russian law.

Queer Nation, meanwhile, has issued a press release in response to the SPI statement (which can be found over on Joe.My.God), I quite like their parting shot: "We will not help you fund the Russian war on LGBT people."

6079_Smith_W

Yes, I read the SPI statement yesterday from another news source.

I still see much more potential on the Olympic front.

bagkitty bagkitty's picture

The following is mostly in response to points raided by Unionist and 6079_Smith_W:

YES, there is a certain amount of, and let's coin a new phrase, "boycott fatigue" on the left and NO, a boycott of Russian vodka is not going to cause the Duma to reverse its actions and scrap the intensely homophobic legislation it passed and which Putin has recently signed into law. It is not "effective" in those terms. At the same time, I think a boycott has great utility.

Neither the MSM nor the self-proclaimed progressive media has done a particularly good job of making the public aware of what is unfolding in Russia - the recent flooding in Southern Alberta, the derailment and explosion in Lac Megantic and (let's not forget) the recent spawning of a new member of the Royal family have pretty much pushed any reporting of the final passage of the "Homosexual Propaganda" legislation into insignificant corners of the media (and if accessing digitial media, this assumes that the building you are in isn't blocking wi-fi access to LGBT sites in the first place). A boycott of the single consumer product that is most clearly identified with Russia and identifiable as Russian (and with the demise of the last Lada dealership, I don't think my assertion that this is the most identifiable product is in danger of being challenged) has the utility of providing a starting point for discussion. When I make it clear to the person taking my order in my local watering hole that I don't want "Russian vodka" in the screwdriver I am ordering, chances are they will ask why (actually talking with your customers is something I find most servers in drinking establishments do) and trust me I will be quite willing to explain why. If the boycott takes hold and expands (and PinkNews is reporting that gay establishments in the UK are picking up on it) it increases the chances that the discussion can force itself into the mainstream. That is utility I am referring to, and in terms of utility, the boycott could be effective.

As for waiting for a call from some "Russian LGBT Network" (as it was phrased above) to initiate a boycott... gimme a break. The recent legislation makes simple assertions that LGBT people should be full and equal members of society a criminal offence. Are you really suggesting that Russian groups risk being put in the position of being accused of "wrecking the economy" by initiating this - that they be the ones to to issue the call for a boycott? Sounds more like a recipe for martyrdom.

Bacchus

Actually the crew could be affected since if the movie does bad, the sequels will not occur, causing many to lose out of bad needly jobs

 

Having said that, I will so see that movie because he is a bigoted piece of shit

bagkitty bagkitty's picture

Catchfire wrote:

[,,,]

That's my personal opinion. As a mod, I will point out that this is the LGBT forum, and I don't think it's appropriate to tell one of our LGBT babblers posting on a campaign against LGBT oppression that he should have his heart examined.

Oh, since he said "an American" rather than "a North American" I assumed he was referring to Dan Savage, not me. Since I too have been known to indulge in a little gratuitous American-slagging I am quite willing to indulge others in doing it. Wink Let's chalk anythinig else up to what I am referring to as "boycott fatigue" especially considering that the humour behind my whole "Holier than thou" approach wasn't appreciated the last time I took it out for a walk. (got me accused of being sarcastic and obnoxious it did!)

6079_Smith_W

Thread drift, but my position on the Card boycott has nothing to do with any sympathy for him, because he has given no ground at all, and it seems to me he would like nothing better than to be made a martyr here.

And as for the phrasing, I didn't make it up:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_LGBT_network

http://www.lgbtnet.ru/en/

Again, I'm sorry if my comments seem like raiding, bagkitty. I don't intend them that way, but I have a real problem with the indiscriminate use of this tactic.

 

bagkitty bagkitty's picture

As for the boycott of Ender's Game/Orson Scott Card. I think it can be totally effective. The desired effect is to reduce the profit Card will realize from the film (and he has points in his contract with Lionsgate so reducing the box office affects him directly - since the crew do not receive points they can in no way be considered being at risk of becoming "collateral damage" - the consequences will be restricted to Card and the one percenters behind the production and perhaps Harrison Ford in front of the camera -- an entirely acceptable level of collateral damage in my estimation).

Unionist may want to avert his eyes from the following... since I am going to quote another American. Harvey Fierstein in this instance, as to the reasoning behind a boycott whose sole intention is to "hit" Card (in the pocketbook if nothing else):

HarveyFierstein wrote:

"Look at that asshole [Orson Scott Card] that wrote this new Harrison Ford movie [Ender's Game]. I think that you can have any opinion you want, but at least be willing to take the consequences of your opinion. It’s like, 'Well, I hope that people will be more understanding,' or what did he say? 'More tolerant of my views.' The quotes that got me about him weren’t against gay marriage -- he wanted homosexuality criminalized in the United States. That's what he called for. You want me to be tolerant of you wanting to criminalize homosexuality? Fuck you on your grave, you piece of shit."

 

onlinediscountanvils

I agree with bagkitty's points in post #17.

I don't drink, but I support the boycott in spirit. Foot in mouth

As for the potential impact on film crews, I'm sure Hollywood will find some other film to make in place of Ender's Game 2: Electric Boogaloo.

bagkitty bagkitty's picture

There is a report on Joe.My,God that the IOC has announced they have received assurances from the Russian government that "Sochi Athletes & Fans are [will be] Exempt from Anti-Gay "Propaganda" Laws".

I can think of no more appropriate time to quote from an article by James Steakley on anti-gay legislation in Germany at the time of the 1936 Olympics - to provide context if nothing else. [The article originally appeared in the Body Politic in 1974]

JamesSteakley wrote:

Hitler ordered all the gay bars in Berlin closed as soon as he came to power. But when the Olympics were held in that city in 1936, he temporarily rescinded the order and allowed several bars to reopen: foreign guests were not to receive the impression that Berlin was a “sad city.”

Sources elsewhere report "Nazi officials also ordered that foreign visitors should not be subjected to the criminal penalties of German anti-homosexuality laws."

I have yet to find a MSM article that draws this parallel... fortunately this is not the case in the comments sections of the LGBT media who are giving prominent play to the story.

 

bagkitty bagkitty's picture

Russian LGBT activists issue boycott call.

Their statement reads as follows:

statement wrote:

Dear Friends,

International support is essential for the survival of Russia's LGBT community right now. We appreciate and support all attempts to let the Russian authorities know that homophobic and inhumane laws will not go unnoticed and that Vladimir Putin's regime will not get away with antigay violence. We speak out in favor of boycotting Russian goods and companies and the Olympic Games in Sochi. We also appreciate the attention of international media; we need it. We would also support any legislative initiative aimed at holding the Russian authorities accountable for their homophobic campaign. Thank you for being with us in our hour of need.

Masha Gessen, author, journalist, activist
Kseniya Kirichenko, lawyer and legal scholar
Alexei Davydov, Radical Faggots Union; political council member of the Moscow chapter of the Solidarity Movement
Maria Baronova, activist, Bolotnoye Case defendant
Alexander Artemyev, journalist
Olga Krause, poet, musician, activist
Tasha Granovskaya, social worker, LGBT activist
Bulat Barantaev, Homosexuals, Relatives and Friends Movement; member of the political council,Novosibirsk chapter of the Solidarity Movement
Mitya Aleshkovsky, photographer, activist
Karen Shainyan, journalist
Galina Chachanova, freelance translator
Yana Mandrykina, attorney
Elena Nikitina
Alexander Agapov, editor, Livejournal.com
Elena Rifat Hakimova, activist
Olga Kurachyova, journalist, LGBT activist
Zlata Bossina, Quarteera e.V., an organization for Russian-speaking LGBT and friends in Germany
Tagira Abdullayeva, LGBT activist, medical neurologist
Anastasia Putseva, business consultant
Tasya Krugovykh, filmmaker
Yulia Selezen, philologist
Anna Mikhailina
Akram Kubanychbek

6079_Smith_W
Catchfire Catchfire's picture

bump

Left Turn Left Turn's picture

I'm surprised that no one has yet posted Ellen Woodsworth's article on this topic. Published on Rabble no less.

I agree with her position.

[url=http://rabble.ca/news/2013/08/this-about-more-just-russia-homophobia-and... is about more than just Russia: Homophobia and the Olympics[/url]

Quote:
In June Russia, host of the 2014 Sochi Winter Olympics, passed a federal law which will seriously impact the rights of Russians, all Olympic athletes, staff, volunteers and foreigners who are LGTTBQ (Lesbian, Gay, Transgendered, Twin Spirited, Bisexual, Queer).

This has led to a call for a boycott of the Olympics. Calls for boycotts of the Olympics are not new tactics as a way to protest.

...

Calls for a boycott are not supported by the queer community in Russia or by Olympic athletes. As Mary Woo Sims, former B.C. Chief of the Human Rights Commission says:

"I think it is unfair to place pressure on the athletes to boycott the Sochi Olympics. I remember how my sister and my family felt when Hong Kong, as a British Colony boycotted the Moscow Summer Olympics. She had trained and competed hard to represent Hong Kong and our family saved and sacrificed to support and be there for her. Frankly, the pressure should be on the IOC to consider the human rights record of a country before awarding any games to it. And to be bold and prepare to withdraw the Games from a country that subsequent to being awarded the games, oppresses and violates the human rights of its community. In the meantime, corporate sponsors should be contacted to withdraw sponsorship. Economic pressure should not just be directed at Russian vodka companies, it should also be directed at multinational corporations who are sponsoring the Sochi Olympics."

The LGTTBQ movement in Russia, athletes around the world and others echo her comments. They feel that the Games should go on in Sochi and that the public outcry against homophobia in Russia can strengthen the situation of queers in Russia as well as raise the rights of queers internationally. They think that a boycott could lead to even further repression of queers within Russia. They are saying "use the games to speak out, but don't walk out."

...

Protests currently underway are the boycott of Russian vodka, but many say this is not enough since sponsors of the Olympics such as Coca-Cola, Panasonic, VISA, Samsung, and Procter & Gamble should also be forced to stand up publicly against homophobia. People are urged to contribute financial support to Russian LGTTBQ organizations.

...

Human rights are fragile. Homophobia is very powerful and must be fought against by all -- locally and internationally.

The whole world is watching the IOC and Russia. We are calling on all countries to stand up loud and proud for LGTTBQ rights.

NDPP

Gay Rights in Russia: Facts and Myths

http://rt.com/news/russia-gay-law-myths-951/

 

Sochi Olympics Boycott (and vid)

http://youtu.be/KZv0NskSsf0

panel discussion

 

Russian Jews Outraged After Stephen Fry Compared 'Gay Propaganda' ban to Nazi Germany

http://rt.com/news/russia-jews-fry-comment-396/

"Russia's Jewish community has lashed out at British actor Stephen Fry after he compared the country's 'gay propaganda' ban to Hitler's persecution of Jews by Nazi Germany. Fry, an openly gay Jewish British writer, actor and television host, urged UK Prime Minister David Cameron and the IOC to boycott the Sochi 2014 Winter Olympics.."

Before Fry, the suggestion of an Olympic boycott was first made by a US Republican Senator in response to Russia's  Snowden asylum.

Russian Politicians Rebuke US Senator's Call to Boycott Sochi Winter Olympics

http://rt.com/politics/olympics-sochi-boycott-outrage-210/

"The Republican senator from South Carolina told The Hill newspaper that President Barack Obama should consider boycotting the 2014 Olympic Games.."

 

 

bagkitty bagkitty's picture

More attention should be focused on the role of the IOC in all this. This article in GayStarNews would be a good place to start.

GSNarticle wrote:

Gay Star News asked the global Olympic bosses what they were planning to do to ‘make sure the LGBT community in Russia can have a visible, proud, safe presence at the games’.

But the IOC replied the games were not the place for ‘political’ statements. Any participant who steps out of line may be punished, not by the Russians but by Olympic chiefs themselves.

LGBT rights campaigners have called on athletes to wear ‘rainbow pins’ to show their support for LGBT people in the opening and closing ceremonies.

But the IOC pointed GSN to rules banning that.

The Olympics own charter describes such things as ‘propaganda’ – the same word used by the Russians in their new anti-gay law which stops homosexuality being ‘promoted’ to minors.

Under rule 50 of the IOC’s charter: ‘No kind of demonstration or political, religious or racial propaganda is permitted in any Olympic sites, venues or other areas.’

GSN had asked what the global Olympic chiefs thought about plans for athletes to wear rainbow pins or hold hands during the opening and closing ceremonies.

We also asked if the IOC would provide a safe space – or Pride House – for LGBT athletes, spectators, dignitaries and others during the games to celebrate gay sport and community.

But their spokeswoman told us: ‘Regarding your suggestions, the IOC has a clear rule laid out in the Olympic Charter (Rule 50) which states that the venues of the Olympic Games are not a place for proactive political or religious demonstration.

‘This rule has been in place for many years and applied when necessary.

‘In any case, the IOC would treat each case individually and take a sensible approach depending on what was said or done.’

The message is clear, athletes, coaches and others who step out of line – for example by wearing rainbow pins – would not just risk arrest from Russians, but also punishment from the IOC.

Clause 50 states the penalty for violation can be ‘disqualification or withdrawal of the accreditation of the person concerned’ without appeal.

 

Catchfire Catchfire's picture

Agreed -- the IOC have been unabashedly craven about this.

Great poster too.

bagkitty bagkitty's picture

Thanks, I think Godwin's Law has to be suspended in this case... the analogy is just too apt.

Aristotleded24

Would an international campaign really work? It seems to me that Russia gets off on being isolated from the international community and doesn't really care what the international community thinks. As for a boycott, wouldn't that mean that the Russians simply win more medals than they would have otherwise because of less competition?

I think the only pressure to change will come from within Russia, and any support that people outside Russia give will have to be respectful of that. And not to negate the homophobic aspect, but Russian anti-gay laws are part and parcel of a larger campaign of repression directed against the Russian people, and that aspect receives almost no media attention.

abnormal

Fact is that Olympic boycotts have never worked.  The only people that have ever been punished are the athletes that have spent their lives training for the games but who were forbidden to compete.

 

 

Catchfire Catchfire's picture

Aristotleded24 wrote:
Would an international campaign really work? It seems to me that Russia gets off on being isolated from the international community and doesn't really care what the international community thinks. As for a boycott, wouldn't that mean that the Russians simply win more medals than they would have otherwise because of less competition?

While I would caution against the generalization of "Russia" in this statement (I think it's more to do with Putin's style of ruling, which has some traction and effectiveness with the populace at large rather than being a national trait), I tend to agree with the idea that this resistance plays into Putin's hands somewhat. But why should that mean that we stop it?

kropotkin1951

Maybe we should just start boycotting the whole Olympic movement everywhere given its record of displacing the poor while spending reams of public money on events for the jet set. If I drank vodka I would would switch to Polish or Canadian brands.

Of course its traditional, when Russia gets the Olympics it gets boycotted. None of the other countries in the last two decades that have had the Olympics were as evil as the original evil empire. I find the idea of boycotting Russia but none of the other venues rather old school cold war thinking. How's the campaign to boycott Saudi oil because of its monarchy's brutal and murderous homophobia going? I guess Russian vodka is a way easier target

Unionist

[url=http://www.montrealgazette.com/life/backs+campaign+against+Russian+anti/...ébec solidaire backs campaign against Russian anti-gay law[/url]

 

6079_Smith_W

Evidently things are happening already - even in cases where it was not clear whether it was a sign of protest.

Swedish athliete compelled to repaint rainbow nails:

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/trackandfield/story/2013/08/17/sp-track-field-o...

Russian relay team members kiss on the podium:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2013/08/18/kseniya_ryzhova_and_ta...

 

bagkitty bagkitty's picture

Yes, the Swedish pole vaulter demonstrated her solidarity at the International Track and Field competition being held in Russia... and then was chastised and cautioned by her sports federation for doing so. 

Meanwhile "The U.S. Olympic Committee is officially condemning Russia's anti-gay laws while simultaneously insisting that all U.S. Olympians competing at Sochi adhere to them." [emphasis added]

@abnormal... which athletes are your referring to? The 1 percenters from the NHL who are going to be representing their birthplaces at the Olympic games, or the "elite" athletes who are hoping for endorsements if they are successful. This is not the summer games, where whatever the equivalent of a Horatio Alger story unfolds (like the emergence of a marathon runner from the uplands of Kenya or Ehtiopia), this is the modern, largerly professional and incredibly money conscious Olympics we are talking about on the one hand and the Russian government scapegoating an identificable segment of its population on the other. While it would be unfortunate for the individuals involved to miss this opportunity, unfortunate doesn't mean you end up imprisoned.

NDPP

Canada Should Bar Russian Politicians Who Support Anti-Gay Law: NDP

http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/canada-should-bar-russian-politicians-who...

Good idea..

But not a peep to be heard about our resident Israeli Defence Attache and his Mavi Marmara/Cast Lead involvement, nor anything but warm welcomes to Zio butchers like Shimon Peres or Avigdor Lieberman.

Let alone Barack the kill list peace laureate president

Why are the ndp so disgustingly careful to always make sure any foreign leaders they complain about are only those on Hannibal Lector's official shitlist.?

bagkitty bagkitty's picture

Good link. Poor judgment as to where to go off on a tangent.

abnormal

NDPP wrote:

Canada Should Bar Russian Politicians Who Support Anti-Gay Law: NDP

http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/canada-should-bar-russian-politicians-who...

Good idea..

...

Why are the ndp so disgustingly careful to always make sure any foreign leaders they complain about are only those on Hannibal Lector's official shitlist.?

If you're going to extend the list beyond the "official shitlist" the obvious question is where do you start (or stop for that matter).

For example, should you add in any politician from an Islamic country that espouses sharia law?

abnormal

????????????????????

richardp

kropotkin1951 wrote:

Of course its traditional, when Russia gets the Olympics it gets boycotted. None of the other countries in the last two decades that have had the Olympics were as evil as the original evil empire. I find the idea of boycotting Russia but none of the other venues rather old school cold war thinking. How's the campaign to boycott Saudi oil because of its monarchy's brutal and murderous homophobia going? I guess Russian vodka is a way easier target

 

Precisely.  If anti-gay legislation is indeed our target, then let's please line up the entire Middle East and Africa for condemnation as well.  If misogyny is an issue here then please add India to that list.

infracaninophile infracaninophile's picture

What about a boycott of companies that sponsor the Olympics? Since I don't watch TV I won't know who they are , but there must be a list somewhere. An organized boycott of their products and services might be more effective as a protest than something aimed at Russia directly.

 

Just an idea. 

bagkitty bagkitty's picture

richardp wrote:

Precisely.  If anti-gay legislation is indeed our target, then let's please line up the entire Middle East and Africa for condemnation as well.  If misogyny is an issue here then please add India to that list.

What a remarkably ignorant thing to say. Does your blanket condemnation apply to Turkey... which essentially decriminalized homosexual activity at almost exactly the same time as Victorian England was putting harsh penalties into place to punish the same (and codifying it throughout the Empire... a legacy that continues to haunt the Commonwealth to this day)? Does your blanket condemnation apply to South Africa where sexual orientation was included in human rights legislation immediately following the downfall of the Apartheid regime and which was the fifth nation in the world to give blanket recognition to same sex marriages?

bagkitty bagkitty's picture

Unionist wrote:

Yeah, and how about banning any representative of the Vatican from Canada? I'd support that in a heartbeat. And I'm just talking about homophobia here. You know, a state whose law bans homosexuality altogether (except when it involves priests raping children, of course)? Isn't that a tad more onerous than the Russian law?

This deliberate conflating of homosexuality and pedophilia, in support of such a minor rhetorical point, is offensive and has been reported to the moderators. Conflating the two is something we have come to expect from the cranks in NOM and the FRC... I don't think babble is an appropriate place to be doing the same.

Unionist wrote:

I'm having trouble figuring out how and when we got holier than Russia, but no one else. What's this about?

I think you are being deliberately obtuse. The suggestion to boycott Russian products and/or the Olympics to be held in Sochi are a direct response to a particular triggering event - the passage in June of the laws prohibiting so-called "gay propaganda". Particular event, particular solution - and within a compressed timeline. In broad terms it is both fair and legitimate to question if such a tactic is or can be effective. Drawing comparisons to situations that are not even roughly analagous contributes little of any value to the debate.

That boycotts are not being called for to deal with the institutional homophobia of some other states is best explained by the lack of a contemporary triggering event to mobilize people around the boycott tactic. When institutional homophobia expressed in the criminal law of a former British colony (think Nigeria, or Jamaica or anyplace else whose criminal law is a carry over from their formal colonial masters) boycotts are not only likely to be totally ineffective, they are probably impossible to mobilize people around in the first place. When, however, a state (think Russia or Uganda) is in the process of enacting new and more draconian anti-LGBT laws, boycotts are a perfectly legitimate tactic to suggest.

Unionist

Actually bagkitty, my post was obtuse and offensive - I seriously can't explain why I did that. I apologize and retract it.

Skinny Dipper

If most of us find it moot to boycott Russian products and services, we can boycott many of the international sponsors such as Coca-Cola.  Let them the sponsors know that they will not profit from discrimination against the LGBTQ community in Russia.  We can also boycott watching the Sochi Olympic games on TV.

Do I feel sorry for the athletes?  No.  The Olympics is a business where the athletes will want to profit if they win a medal or two by getting more endorsements from companies.

MegB

Bagkitty is dead on Unionist. Thank you for your retraction - it is much appreciated.

richardp

bagkitty wrote:

richardp wrote:

Precisely.  If anti-gay legislation is indeed our target, then let's please line up the entire Middle East and Africa for condemnation as well.  If misogyny is an issue here then please add India to that list.

What a remarkably ignorant thing to say. Does your blanket condemnation apply to Turkey... which essentially decriminalized homosexual activity at almost exactly the same time as Victorian England was putting harsh penalties into place to punish the same (and codifying it throughout the Empire... a legacy that continues to haunt the Commonwealth to this day)? Does your blanket condemnation apply to South Africa where sexual orientation was included in human rights legislation immediately following the downfall of the Apartheid regime and which was the fifth nation in the world to give blanket recognition to same sex marriages?

 

No, of course it doesn't, and my apologies -- I ripped a quick post and didn't consider specific nations, instead posting generalizations.  Again, my apologies.

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