Saskatchewan NDP leadership

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Stockholm

Jan, the difference is that Gerrard Kennedy was already a member of the Ontario legislature when he ran for leader and he won three times provincially and served as minister of education before he decided to jump ship and run for the federal leadership. Ryan Meili is currently a private citizen. The next federal election is likely to be BEFORE the next SK provincial election. I think he could run at either level and no one would mind. in fact Broten would probably be happy to have Meili go federal and have his main rival as far away as possible in Ottawa!

6079_Smith_W

Stockholm wrote:

Broten would probably be happy to have Meili go federal and have his main rival as far away as possible in Ottawa!

I think a lot of people here in Saskatchewan might feel quite differently about it, and given the close nature of the vote, I think him taking an adversarial approach to this would be a big mistake.

 

Goggles Pissano

Ken Burch wrote:

If that's the case, do you have any theories as to why the overshelming majority of Wotherspoon supporters seemed to want to stop Meili?

I think the fact that Meili is not a current MLA did hurt him a great deal.  I believe that many people did like Meilie better, but he is a young medical doctor with a family to support.  He admitted that if he won the leadership race, he would have to set up a clinic in a community and work full time as a doctor and perform his leadership duties on the side.  OR, he would have to force an existing NDP MLA to vacate his/her seat and force a bi-election and run for the NDP in that riding. With only 9 sitting members and with the SP so popular, that could force the NDP to lose another representative in the SLA if the idea backfired.  Lingenfelter would have had no problem doing that, but Meili isn't that type of person either.  He is then forced to assume leadership duties as a part time side job, which isn't really practical for such a high profile responsibility.

 

Goggles Pissano

Stockholm wrote:

Ken Burch wrote:

Is Broten the "status quo" candidate, or does he represent something different?

And what was it about Meili that seems to have driven almost all of the Wotherspoon delegates to Broten as a bloc(even though Wotherspoon made no personal endorsement of Broten?

Its a bit of an exgarretion to say that "almost all" of Wotherspoon's voters went to Broten. The first ballot was Meili 39%, Broten34% and Trent W. with 24% (plus 3% went to Weir even though he had withdrawn) since the fianl vote was 50.1% to 49.9% its clear that of the 27% who voted for the candidates dropped off that ballot - 17% went Broten and 10% went Meili. I suspect that Wotherspoon's voters tended to preference Broten second because both Broten and Wotherspoon are sitting MLAs while Meili was the outsider. If you were an SNDP who put a higher priority on having a leader with a seat in the legislature - it makes sense you would preference the two MLAs as 1-2.

I'm disappointed that Meili lost. He strucjk me as a dynamic guy with lots of new ideas. The "good" news in this is that having come so close but having lost the leadership - Meili would now be the IDEAL candidate to riun for the federal NDP in the proposed new seat of Saskatoon West which has been drawn to be an almost certain NDP win next time. I look forwardded to a federal NDP "dream team" of candidates in the next federal election in Saskatchewan spearheaded by Noah Evanchul in Regina and Ryan Meili in Saskatoon!

Did you forget about Nettie Wiebe?  For those who are not aware of her, she was a past leader of the National Farmer's Union, and is a professor of Theology at St. Andrew's College at the University of Saskatchewan.  She is one of the most dynamically articulate people you will ever find. She has an astoundingly solid footing on all feminist, racial, and social issues, as well as being a foremost authority on all Canadian agricultural economic policies as well as global agricultural issues.

We just had the Canadian Wheat Board dismantled illegally, and now the federal government is going after supply management programs which will kill our entire dairy industry in Canada. Martha Hall-Findlay is in support of doing away with Supply Managment programs.

It is very crucial RIGHT NOW for Nettie Wiebe to be the voice of farmers on Parliament Hill as well as the voice for everybody.  She has the capacity to stun the entire nation.  The Conservative party has very good reason to be afraid of Nettie Wiebe getting elected to Ottawa.

jerrym

Nettie would be an outstanding addition to the federal caucus.

Stockholm

She has also run and lost 4 times in what is the most winnable NDP seat in all of Saskatchewan. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

Aristotleded24

Stockholm wrote:
Jan, the difference is that Gerrard Kennedy was already a member of the Ontario legislature when he ran for leader and he won three times provincially and served as minister of education before he decided to jump ship and run for the federal leadership. Ryan Meili is currently a private citizen. The next federal election is likely to be BEFORE the next SK provincial election. I think he could run at either level and no one would mind. in fact Broten would probably be happy to have Meili go federal and have his main rival as far away as possible in Ottawa!

Right, the only reason anybody ever enters politics is to get elected, and the different candidates in a leadership race are by definition rivals and out to get one another. That way of thinking worked so well for the Liberals, didin't it?

Aristotleded24

Stockholm wrote:
She has also run and lost 4 times in what is the most winnable NDP seat in all of Saskatchewan. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

You're absolutely right. What were perennial Ontario NDP candidates like Irene Mathyssen and John Rafferty thinking running in so many elections, federal and provincial?

Oh wait....

Aristotleded24

Stockholm wrote:
She has also run and lost 4 times in what is the most winnable NDP seat in all of Saskatchewan. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

You're absolutely right. What were perennial Ontario NDP candidates like Irene Mathyssen and John Rafferty thinking running in so many elections, federal and provincial? Why didn't they take a hint from the voters and step aside, it's not like they ever got elected.

Oh wait....

Goggles Pissano

Stockholm wrote:

She has also run and lost 4 times in what is the most winnable NDP seat in all of Saskatchewan. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

I do not believe that any NDP candidate has won any Saskatchewan federal riding in many years.  The only consistently very close contests have been hers. Now, with potentially fully urban ridings in Saskatoon and Regina, that would definitely tip the balance in Nettie Wiebe's favour since she IS the strongest candidate of them all popularity wise.

If running many times and losing is a definition of insanity, then why has the NDP run a full slate of candidates federally for the last 52 years?  That sounds pretty dumb to me.  If Canadians don't like their ideas of social democracy and social equality, then quit.

 

Goggles Pissano

Aristotleded24 wrote:

Stockholm wrote:
She has also run and lost 4 times in what is the most winnable NDP seat in all of Saskatchewan. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

You're absolutely right. What were perennial Ontario NDP candidates like Irene Mathyssen and John Rafferty thinking running in so many elections, federal and provincial?

Oh wait....

Exactly.

Ippurigakko

Goggles Pissano wrote:

Ken Burch wrote:

If that's the case, do you have any theories as to why the overshelming majority of Wotherspoon supporters seemed to want to stop Meili?

I think the fact that Meili is not a current MLA did hurt him a great deal.  I believe that many people did like Meilie better, but he is a young medical doctor with a family to support.  He admitted that if he won the leadership race, he would have to set up a clinic in a community and work full time as a doctor and perform his leadership duties on the side.  OR, he would have to force an existing NDP MLA to vacate his/her seat and force a bi-election and run for the NDP in that riding. With only 9 sitting members and with the SP so popular, that could force the NDP to lose another representative in the SLA if the idea backfired.  Lingenfelter would have had no problem doing that, but Meili isn't that type of person either.  He is then forced to assume leadership duties as a part time side job, which isn't really practical for such a high profile responsibility.

 

 

voter going stop meili because he has no seat? same thing reason in fed ndp 2012 brian topp had no seat.

6079_Smith_W

Stockholm wrote:

She has also run and lost 4 times in what is the most winnable NDP seat in all of Saskatchewan. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

The most winnable seat?

You might want to check out the findings of the electoral boundaries commission.

http://behindthenumbers.ca/2011/08/09/the-strange-case-of-saskatchewans-...

We are the only province in Canada with no urban ridings whatsoever.

My riding? It currently borders on a riding that includes Regina city, 270 km away.

Maybe you should consider what you said upthread about being a bit down on Saskatchewan, and we will see what happens in the next federal election, assuming the new boundaries are adopted.

kropotkin1951

Stockholm wrote:

She has also run and lost 4 times in what is the most winnable NDP seat in all of Saskatchewan. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

Here is someone who lost many more elections in Saskatchewan before getting elected and winning his seat many times.

Stockholm

BTW, since Nettie Wiebe is a farmer was used to head of the National farmers union etc...what would be the point of having her run in a purely urban riding? Why not have her run in the riding where her farm is located and her task can be to pain rural Saskatchewan orange. Given her background as an activist in the NFU - she should do better in a totally rural riding than in a totally urban one!

6079_Smith_W

Um.... to get elected? Or have you changed your mind since post #106?

Besides, not only is sustainable agriculture policy not not the only rural issue, not Wiebe's only issue, and not just an issue which affects rural people, you'd be surprised how many farmers live in town. 

And if you look at the corporate side of things, Cargill, Viterra, P&H, Richardson and most of the other large grain companies are all based in cities too.

Stockholm

Maybe she keeps losing because she's seen as a single issue agrarian candidate and she keeps running in ridings that are mostly in Saskatoon. Maybe if she ran in a purely rural seat she could re-ignite all that populist "prairie fire" that helped the CCF sweep rural Saskatchewan once upon a time!!

6079_Smith_W

No Stockholm. That's not actually how it happened.

Sounds to me like you are actually lobbying for her to come to Ottawa and become Ag minister. I think she'd be a great one, but we need her here for now.

 

jerrym

Stockholm wrote:

She has also run and lost 4 times in what is the most winnable NDP seat in all of Saskatchewan. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

In view of the fact that Jack Layton ran for mayor and lost, and lost twice when he ran for MP before being chosen as party leader, I guess the party was insane to pick him as leader. 

felixr

Well that's a disappointment. One of Meili's biggest gaffes was when he lost a SK NDP nomination before the last provincial election (Saskatoon Nutana?) and said he was leaving politics forever because he thought he'd been hard done by by Cam Broten who had organized the heck out of the riding and packed the nomination hall to muscle out a potential future leadership rival. As it turns out, Cam did run for the leadership next kick at the can and Meili did not leave politics forever. In the rematch, Broten showed his organisational advantage again. So while Broten is not my choice, he has shown he can organise and run machine politics better than Meili can. I still think the SK NDP made a big mistake. I still think Broten represents no renewal. I still think Broten has no appeal to rival or even differentiate himself from Brad Wall, but that is all history now. If Meili doesn't mind working as part of a team (as opposed to lead dog), he should consider the jump to federal politics and seek to make an impact in Ottawa. As has been mentioned before, it would not surprise me if Broten was not too sad to see him leave.

Aristotleded24

It seems that Meili's main concern is rebuilding the Saskatchewan NDP, and given the current state of the party, the party could use Meili's talents in that area. The Saskatchewan NDP, unlike its federal counterparts, cannot call in resources from across the country to help them build, so they have to take whatever advangate they can. It was also the weakness of the Saskatchewan NDP (particularly in rural areas) that has hurt the party federally. Yes, the riding boundaries are not well-drawn, but building up the party strength, in urban and rural areas, would only help the party throughout the province. Forget being happy with winning Churchill River and a few Saskatoon and Regina seats, don't you want to be in a position to win if MPs like Garry Breitkreuz or Gerry Ritz decide to call it quits?

Besides, judging by the close showing, many people in the Saskatchewan NDP agree. If Broten really is "not too sad to see him leave," he is only shooting himself in the foot. That was Link's big mistake was freezing out Meili from the party.

Robo

Stockholm wrote:

She has also run and lost 4 times in what is the most winnable NDP seat in all of Saskatchewan. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

Mel Swart ran unsuccessfully seven times federally and provincially (excluding his multiple municipal victories) from 1950 to 1971 before being eleced on his eighth attempt in 1975; once elected, he was continually re-elected until he retired in 1988. According your snide remark, was Mel Swart insane?

Goggles Pissano

Stockholm wrote:

BTW, since Nettie Wiebe is a farmer was used to head of the National farmers union etc...what would be the point of having her run in a purely urban riding? Why not have her run in the riding where her farm is located and her task can be to pain rural Saskatchewan orange. Given her background as an activist in the NFU - she should do better in a totally rural riding than in a totally urban one!

I guess the point would be to have her win?

Are you trying to say that she would be somehow less effective and less qualified as an Agriculture critic or the Minister of Agriculture simply because of the location of her constituency? Do her talents and qualifications diminish simply because she moves 50 km's to the east to set up her office?

Saskatoon is the agricultural service hub for all of central and northern Saskatchewan.  Regina is likewise for all of southern and central Saskatchewan. You cannot separate urban and rural in such a strongly agriculturally based province like Saskatchewan.  When agricultural exports are down and/or the price of agricultural commodities are down, the entire province, including Regina and Saskatoon, suffers immensely because of the number of businesses which are directly and indirectly reliant on the agricultural sector.

 

 

 

Goggles Pissano

6079_Smith_W wrote:

Um.... to get elected? Or have you changed your mind since post #106?

Besides, not only is sustainable agriculture policy not not the only rural issue, not Wiebe's only issue, and not just an issue which affects rural people, you'd be surprised how many farmers live in town. 

And if you look at the corporate side of things, Cargill, Viterra, P&H, Richardson and most of the other large grain companies are all based in cities too.

I missed this post. I think you summed up what I said much better than I did.

edmundoconnor

Stockholm wrote:

Maybe she keeps losing because she's seen as a single issue agrarian candidate and she keeps running in ridings that are mostly in Saskatoon. Maybe if she ran in a purely rural seat she could re-ignite all that populist "prairie fire" that helped the CCF sweep rural Saskatchewan once upon a time!!

A poll map from 2011 (when I worked on her campaign, incidentally) shows that Wiebe did very well in Saskatoon proper. It was the rural polls that saved Block's bacon. Wiebe was not a single issue candidate. In fact, her agrarian background barely came up in the urban polls that I canvassed.

Reorienting the NDP to appeal more to the rural vote (a worthwhile project) shouldn't have to rest on one woman's shoulders, however talented she is (which in Nettie's case is very).

6079_Smith_W

Thanks edmund, that's what I was looking for. All I could find was text files on the elections canada website, but I remember how the numbers changed on election night as rural polls came in.

knownothing knownothing's picture
Unionist

Ken Burch wrote:

Is Broten the "status quo" candidate, or does he represent something different?

Quote:
"To clear the record ... I support the Keystone XL pipeline because of a triple bottom line assessment looking at environmental, economic and social reasons," Broten told reporters Wednesday at the legislature. [...]

"Mr. Mulcair will make his comments. My job first and foremost is to stand up for Saskatchewan's interests, to develop our resources in a sustainable and responsible manner, and that's the approach that I'll be taking and our caucus and party will be taking with me as leader."

I dunno... remind me what the "status quo" was?

 

felixr

Aristotleded24 wrote:

If Broten really is "not too sad to see him leave," he is only shooting himself in the foot. That was Link's big mistake was freezing out Meili from the party.

Everything I know about Broten makes him sound like the quintessential backroom hack, now in charge of a dying party. It is a commentary on Meili's own shortcomings that he wasn't able to beat such a uninspiring rival.

Aristotleded24

felixr wrote:
One of Meili's biggest gaffes was when he lost a SK NDP nomination before the last provincial election (Saskatoon Nutana?) and said he was leaving politics forever because he thought he'd been hard done by by Cam Broten who had organized the heck out of the riding and packed the nomination hall to muscle out a potential future leadership rival.

Sounds more like sour grapes on Meili's part than anything else. People lose nomination races all the time, so I don't see what the big deal here is. Also, Broten has represented that seat since 2007, when the NDP was in government at the time and well before the leadership race. As it turns out, Broten didn't even run in the following leadership race.

kropotkin1951

Maybe the birthplace of the CCF will soon see the birth of a new party on the left that people will come to trust and support as an alternative to the two party system of a far right party and a centre right party.  Something like the QS but with a stronger INM focus.

Ken Burch

INM?

6079_Smith_W

idle no more, I expect.

kropotkin1951

Indeed.  Sorry but after the multiple threads I thought it was a safe acronym because it was now in common usage.

Just to be clear CCF stands for Co-operative Commonwealth Federation and QS stands for Québec Solidaire. 

Policywonk

kropotkin1951 wrote:

Maybe the birthplace of the CCF will soon see the birth of a new party on the left that people will come to trust and support as an alternative to the two party system of a far right party and a centre right party.  Something like the QS but with a stronger INM focus.

Actually, the CCF was founded in Alberta (the founding Convention was in Calgary in 1932). The Regina Manifesto was adopted at the next Convention in Regina in 1933.

felixr

Aristotleded24 wrote:

felixr wrote:
One of Meili's biggest gaffes was when he lost a SK NDP nomination before the last provincial election (Saskatoon Nutana?) and said he was leaving politics forever because he thought he'd been hard done by by Cam Broten who had organized the heck out of the riding and packed the nomination hall to muscle out a potential future leadership rival.

Sounds more like sour grapes on Meili's part than anything else. People lose nomination races all the time, so I don't see what the big deal here is. Also, Broten has represented that seat since 2007, when the NDP was in government at the time and well before the leadership race. As it turns out, Broten didn't even run in the following leadership race.

Here are the articles about the dust-up:

Meili withdraws from NDP race in Sutherland

Broten must dig out from "landslide" win

 

Ken Burch

kropotkin1951 wrote:

Indeed.  Sorry but after the multiple threads I thought it was a safe acronym because it was now in common usage.

Just to be clear CCF stands for Co-operative Commonwealth Federation and QS stands for Québec Solidaire. 

OK, I just hadn't seen Idle No More's name reduced to an acronym...didn't really deserve the snark(also, I'm not a TOTAL idiot, and was familiar with the other abbreviations).

That said, I agree with you about including the INM values in a new left party for Sask, should the SNDP continue to be unable to get their act together(and there's no reason to think they WILL get it together any time soon).

knownothing knownothing's picture

I agree. I didn't vote for Broten in the leadership but I was willing to give him a chance but after he threw Mulcair under the bus to support that pipeline, I don't know what I am going to do.

Anyone want to start the CCF again with me?

We will just call it the CCF. That would be awesome!

kropotkin1951

Ken Burch wrote:

OK, I just hadn't seen Idle No More's name reduced to an acronym...didn't really deserve the snark(also, I'm not a TOTAL idiot, and was familiar with the other abbreviations).

You have a very thin skin. Tell me is there anyway to answer your posts without you taking it as snark.  I'll bet most people I asked would say they don't know what the CCF stands for and even more so for QS.  I will try to read your mind better next time so you don't accuse me of calling you an idiot when I was trying to clarify a post you asked about.

Aristotleded24

felixr wrote:
Aristotleded24 wrote:

felixr wrote:
One of Meili's biggest gaffes was when he lost a SK NDP nomination before the last provincial election (Saskatoon Nutana?) and said he was leaving politics forever because he thought he'd been hard done by by Cam Broten who had organized the heck out of the riding and packed the nomination hall to muscle out a potential future leadership rival.

Sounds more like sour grapes on Meili's part than anything else. People lose nomination races all the time, so I don't see what the big deal here is. Also, Broten has represented that seat since 2007, when the NDP was in government at the time and well before the leadership race. As it turns out, Broten didn't even run in the following leadership race.

Here are the articles about the dust-up:

Meili withdraws from NDP race in Sutherland

You mean this part?

Meili also said in an interview with The StarPhoenix he had heard stories that Saskatoon Massey Place MLA Cam Broten was helping Anwar in his campaign with a view to knocking out Meili as a rival in a future NDP leadership race. He did note he did not have evidence of Broten's involvement.

In his statement withdrawing from the race, Meili said he had made a mistake by speculating and giving credence to the issue. He said he had apologized to Broten and Anwar for his comments.

I do have to question why Meili would even publicly speculate like that in the first place, and why the Star Phoenix would print something that is, quite frankly, unsubstantiated gossip.