"Occupy Toronto" Part of the Democratic Renaissance?

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T. Truman
"Occupy Toronto" Part of the Democratic Renaissance?

 

The Democratic Renaissance Springs Forth into its Second Year

   A New Era of Enlightenment Emerges

 Eyes have been opened. Minds have been freed.

 At the time of its publication in the summer of 2010, who could have imagined that the Direct Democracy Ireland manifesto, with its foreshadowing of a Democratic Renaissance, would be the first document of its kind to accurately describe a political and intellectual movement yet to attain substance and form; an aspiration that resided solely in the hearts and minds of millions around the world, brought closer together through technology and social media; an audacity to dream a little dream of freedom, dignity and hope everywhere, emboldened by the unshakable belief that a life of endless political and personal freedom, coupled with economic prosperity, is possible.

 This movement, first described in the media as the Arab Spring, has only grown since its unleashing in the fall of 2010.

 Though the winds of change began to be felt in North Africa and the Middle East, the Arab Spring has blown into a whirlwind of revolution: Tunisia is free, Gaddafi is gone in Libya, the regime of Bashar - Al Assad is crumbling, and Egypt is slowly crawling toward a democratic denouement.

Be it prescient or just happenstance, the recognition of a Democratic Renaissance here in the West has today come to fruition, not only in the Republic of Ireland, but across Continental Europe and North America. People are involved and demanding a greater say, their inspiration those who have thrown off the shackles of political repression and fear—the foundation of totalitarianism and oppression; tens of thousands have gathered in city squares from Athens to London.

 But the Democratic Renaissance has brought with it much more than just new voices of political freedom: it has once again sent the  individual down a new path of empowerment and intellectual enlightenment, a path filled with new perspectives and new ideas of a future within the grasp of men and women everywhere, grounded in the ideas of reason, logic and common sense;  a path that markedly resembles one the human race abandoned long ago in favour of war, ideology and consumerism ...

 the Enlightenment.

 The Enlightenment of the 17th and 18th centuries took place in a time similar to ours. The world was torn by wars of religion, by imperial and economic conquest. Persecution and witch-hunts were widespread. Looking closely at the activities of today’s activists, one might be surprised to note the similarity both of tactics and the intended outcome of such confrontation: political and intellectual assassination without just cause or trial.

Now, as then, the call for more democracy and freedom has also unleashed a set of circumstances and events showing the world to be little changed from the past, when Europe itself was ruled by the heavy hand of the aristocracy and priestly enslavers. Even though we in the West have rid ourselves of private armies, mercenaries and countless wealthy overlords, there are those still struggling for their freedom in the Middle East and North Africa.

 Yet, as recent history has shown, humanity tends to move in the direction of less rather than more freedom, a world of shackles rather than a world in which people live in the full light of liberty and reasoned intellectual understanding. Really, how different is our world from that of our ancestors who struggled to free themselves from oppression and the tyranny of a ruling elite? Now, as then, do not the elite see the rest of us who dwell in rural prefectures, bankrupt suburbs and urban slums with indifference and contempt?

 Certainly the West has come a long way from feudal landlords and debtor prisons. But has the individual really gained any more power since the final days of revolution in the 18th century? We may be more prosperous, we may have more stuff, but are we really any more free?

 People in the West continue to face soft tyranny and systemic oppression, even now.

 Are today’s bankers any different than the lords and barons who ruled in centuries past? Back then, we were at the mercy and reliant upon the generosity of an elite class for our livelihoods and future prosperity. Today, can anyone get anywhere without a loan or a mortgage that must be repaid with the price of interest, doubling and some times even tripling the final price of your home or car? And what is the difference between being required to adhere to a dogmatic religious code of conduct and the need to be politically correct to gain entry into a good paying job?

 The major themes of the Enlightenment are kindred spirits with the zeitgeist today. As professor Paul Brain, Washington State University writes, “Like then, individualism, freedom and change replaced community, authority and tradition as core European values.”

 And the similarities do not end there. As in the Renaissance, we are today coping with the end of one way of thinking and the emergence of new avenues of introspection. Just as the influence and importance of the church was on the wane then, science as a vehicle capable of providing future intellectual growth and economical, technological progress is today grinding gears and losing traction.

 Today’s science is not that of the 17th and 18th centuries when the Renaissance exploded through  this magnificent and powerful tool of investigation to enlighten people. We are now faced with boundaries and limitations that were not even conceived of then. John Horgan’s The End of Science is probably the best description of just how daunting—and possibly insurmountable—are the obstacles that now face those searching for tomorrow’s answers to today’s questions.

 If we were to truly take an unbiased look as the Western world today, we would find a civilization in decay; its economic structures crumbling; a people politically lost; an economy teetering on the edge. Worse, we are intellectually a fragmented and disjointed people driven by irrational fears and beliefs that stifle lasting economic, political and individual prosperity.

 Perhaps it is fitting, then, that the world should find itself in the throes of rebellion and revolution.

 For us in the West, the Arab Spring has become a Democratic Renaissance. It has brought forth an entirely new realm of political possibility and individual enlightenment.

 Truly, it can only be a matter of time before this energy and enthusiasm that fills the streets will find its way into other avenues of intellectual investigation and enlightened activity, exemplified by art, literature and philosophy.

 The following six essays will attempt to describe some of the intellectual possibilities emerging in this New Era of  Enlightenment, as well as discuss both the opportunities and obstacles facing the Democratic Renaissance as it moves into its second year.

 

Reprinted here with permission.

www.directdemocracyireland.org

Coming next:

Part II

 The Democratic Renaissance and its Meaning

 From Cairo and Athens to Dublin, A New Political/Intellectual Enlightenment Defined

 

 

 

 


http://public.wsu.edu/~brians/hum_303/enlightenment.html

 

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NDPP

Bob Rae At Occupy Toronto (and vid)

http://www.citytv.com/toronto/citynews/brightcovevideo/161137

"There's huge insecurity out there right now and a lot of frustration that banks got bailed out very quickly but others don't get bailed out so quickly.."

And that our 'representatives' go along with this and other things, like support for Zionist crimes in Palestine and warmaking and killing Libyans and Afghans and lots of other things too Bobby boy...

NDP MP Olivia Chow Weighs In..

http://www.cp24.com/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20111015/111015_Occupy/2011...

Olivia says same as Bobby Rae basically

 

takeitslowly

Bob Rae? ew.

janfromthebruce

Bob Rae and his liberals are part of the enablers for corporate rule! Bob Rae is such a hypercrit - egads!

socialdemocracynow

Look at all these lefties having an orgasm, it's just a fucking protest.. Calm down.

Catchfire Catchfire's picture

Bye, friend. Thanks for the memories.

Maysie Maysie's picture

I was there for a few hours yesterday in the miserable damp rain. It was very inspiring to see lots of people I know, and to see folks getting ready to stay there for a while. Various areas were being set up; a library, a medic tent. Food had been donated.

There was an unofficial babble corner when I ran into radiorahim, oldgoat and Matt Adams and Meagan Perry (rabble staffers). I saw Polunatic from afar.

I heard the rumours about Bob Rae being around but I didn't see him. I think the reason he was there was because St. James Park is in his riding. He surely wasn't there because of any solidarity reasons. Sheesh.

oldgoat

Great to see all you people there.  Papal Bull also showed up.  He's in TO for reading week. Got to chat with Derrick O'Keefe who was in from Van for a while.  Meagan got an interview with Rae for rabble.

 

Actually, most people wouln't have gotten to see Rae as he didn't stray more than 5 feet from the big media vans parked up at the north end of the park.

edmundoconnor

I was also there, and I probably saw a few of you (I can't be sure, as I only know Aristotled24 to speak to). I also saw John Turmel, aka KingofthePaupers.

janfromthebruce

well I couldn't get down because of a previous mtg commitment but I'm in TO in the next couple of weeks so I will most definitely stop by. Rae I suppose didn't want to miss an interview - lol.

Tommy_Paine

"Hypercrit"  I love that.

Niether one really gets it.  Or, if they do, they don't give voice to the fact that this whole thing is an indictment of political parties as agents of change, and that people view legislators as one of the biggest parts of the problem.

Geoff OB

I wish protesters the best and support the ideals for which they are protesting, but if what they're doing now is all they intend to do, they'll be forgotten days after they go home.  I'd be really interested to hear from the occupiers what they are going to do beyond demonstrating.

wage zombie

Geoff OB wrote:

I wish protesters the best and support the ideals for which they are protesting, but if what they're doing now is all they intend to do, they'll be forgotten days after they go home.  I'd be really interested to hear from the occupiers what they are going to do beyond demonstrating.

Why do you assume that anyone's going home before things change?

Gaian

The very shock that this has had on "the system" can be seen in the way the media resisted, then had to finally concede to its existence.

Reading an essay by Chris Hedges, Feb. 2, 2009, It's Not Going to Be OK, explains (quoting Sheldon S. Wolin):"Democracy is not ascendant. It is not dominant. It is beleaguered. The extent to which young people have been drawn away from public concerns and given this extraordinary range of diversions makes it very likely they could then rally to a demagogue."

Perhaps need is not only the mother of invention, but of social change?Anyway, one can see why Hedges is excited by it all.

I was lined up for an MRI investigation of my neck, Saturday, and remarked to the technologist that the procedure would keep me out of the rain in Toronto. I got the strangest look, in return, and a studied silence met my attempt at reconciliation at the end of the noisy procedure. I must be more careful around medical personnel.

Maysie Maysie's picture

Toronto Star: Chantal Hebert: Want real change? Hit the ballot box instead of the street

Chantal Hebert misses the point. The electoral system doesn't work for most Canadians, let's say, around 99% of them.

Quote:
If more young voters found their way to the polling booth, they would stand to change the stripe of the governments that craft the economic policies of the country. They would also force all political protagonists to recast their narratives.

Um, nope. The very nature of electoral politics is that whoever satisfies the status quo wins.

Then she says this.....

Quote:
Parties inevitably cater more to those who vote.

Followed by this....

Quote:
In politics, he who pays the piper often does call the tune and, until recently, corporate Canada and big labour very much paid the pipers.

Get your arguments straight, eh? Yeah we know parties cater to big businesses and corporations. Who have something better than a vote, they have money and influence.

And corporate Canada and "big labour" carry the same political weight do they? Fucking hell. Damn I hate Liberals.

Slumberjack

Tommy_Paine wrote:
Niether one really gets it.  Or, if they do, they don't give voice to the fact that this whole thing is an indictment of political parties as agents of change, and that people view legislators as one of the biggest parts of the problem.

It is that.  Its nothing people haven't been saying around here for years.

Geoff OB

wage zombie wrote:

Geoff OB wrote:

I wish protesters the best and support the ideals for which they are protesting, but if what they're doing now is all they intend to do, they'll be forgotten days after they go home.  I'd be really interested to hear from the occupiers what they are going to do beyond demonstrating.

Why do you assume that anyone's going home before things change?

History is littered with protests that have come and gone.  In the desperate situation facing so many Americans, I can see it having an impact in the US (unless it is high-jacked by the Democrats, which would please Chantal Hebert to no end, I suppose). 

However, my initial question is about what the protesters would see as successful next steps leading toward substantial change.  It's not a criticism, just a question.

Slumberjack

Maysie wrote:
And corporate Canada and "big labour" carry the same political weight do they? 

Obviously not the same by any measure, although their heads are often perceived as forming indentations on the same pillow.  And as tough and erroneous a rap as it might be for some to accept, that perception is out there in spades. It can't be entirely ignored anymore that whenever collective action emerges as the necessary response from organized labour, it is an entirely defensive effort geared towards salvaging as much as possible from what already exists. To my mind unions should be countering the relentless strategic moves of corporatism with relentless offensive tactics of their own. Workers everywhere should be bought on board wherever possible, represented by the various bargaining units, and protected if necessary by picket lines. Austerity for the sake of profits, bonuses and casino speculation should be met with persistent and uncompromising expansion drives. The decades old bunker mentality which has been employed many times too often is unfit for the times, because it facilitates the sort of fractured and fragmented terrain that allows corporate shills like Lisa Raitt and Harperites to kick worker's rights in the teeth.

OnTheLeft OnTheLeft's picture

Maysie wrote:

Chantal Hebert misses the point. The electoral system doesn't work for most Canadians, let's say, around 99% of them.

And corporate Canada and "big labour" carry the same political weight do they? Fucking hell. Damn I hate Liberals.

And what's even more frustrating and ironic is that Hebert advocates for electoral reform/PR.

Hebert talks out of both sides of her mouth.

Catchfire Catchfire's picture

Geoff OB wrote:
However, my initial question is about what the protesters would see as successful next steps leading toward substantial change.  It's not a criticism, just a question.

Go down and ask them. In fact, you don't even need to ask, because they're already telling you. They're actually quite clear if you bother to take the time. 

Polunatic2

I thought this piece by Chris Hedges was well written and worth reading. Is there a message there for the NDP as well? 

A Movement Too Big to Fail

 

 

Maysie Maysie's picture

I heart Chris Hedges.

As for your question, Polunatic, I don't know.

Where was any mention of the OWS protests, and the planned Canadian protest day in the recent Ontario election, by the NDP? 

Where has the local Toronto NDP been, before and since the rally on Saturday? City councillors? MPPs? MPs?

.

*crickets*

 

.

.

*tumbleweeds blowing by*

.

The nicest answer I can conclude is, the message for the NDP is to hope all the protestors go away soon.

What I predict will happen is that the cops will move in at some point when there are no or fewer cameras, and illegally arrest everyone and take down the protest site. And then release them with no charges a day or so later. Maybe there will be a public inquiry. Some cop will get a few days off with pay. Wohoo.

But I'm a crabby activist of 30+ years. I'd love to be proven wrong. There's lots of things we can do.

Meanwhile, I just read on Krystalline Kraus' Facebook page that there's a march at King and Bay at 8am tomorrow. Be there if you can, peeps!

 

Polunatic2

Maysie, one would never know from looking at you that you've been in "the biz" for 30+ years! 

I did see some NDP luminaries there on Saturday which was a good thing. I think that lesson is to "be bold", work harder to address the root causes of problems and put forward creative solutions that will capture people's imaginations. 

Maysie Maysie's picture

Thanks Polunatic.

My trick is: start young and age well. I'm still working on that second part.

Cool

Damn, I missed the luminaries. Story of my life.

edmundoconnor

Olivia Chow and Andrew Cash were there, and spoke to the crowd. Other NDPers (including myself) were there in individual capacities.

Bob Rae seemingly spoke to the camera crews, and no-one else. Huge surprise there.

Catchfire Catchfire's picture

Maysie wrote:
Damn, I missed the luminaries. Story of my life.

Um...what am I? Chopped Liver?

 

Tommy_Paine

"However, my initial question is about what the protesters would see as successful next steps leading toward substantial change.  It's not a criticism, just a question."

I think a lot of people are impatient for something tangible to come of this right away, hence the demand for demands. 

The best situation would be for the establishment to start doing some things and asking, "there, will that make you go away?" With no one going away until substantial change is met.

It's a not a protest about demands as yet.  First, it was a protest to show that people who are hurting, people who are offended by the events of the last few years are not alone. 

In fact, not only do people see that they are not alone-- they now know they are in the majority, whether they are at home or on the street. 

Pause for a moment, and think about what starteling progress this is in only a few short weeks.

Ideas are being bandied about, and things will coalesce soon enough.  I suspect an event-- such as the European debacle coming to a head, or something not even on the radar-- will be the catalyst that will see demands come forth.

Tommy_Paine

I would be surprised if Chantal Hebert really understood what was going on regarding the Occupy movement, but I am shocked that she is so clueless.

Utterly clueless.

Tommy_Paine

"The nicest answer I can conclude is, the message for the NDP is to hope all the protestors go away soon."

Actually, you have to sort of feel sorry for the NDP.

Ages ago, when they really were a revolutionary kind of party, the knock against them was that they were a revolutionary party.  So, they softened that aspect, over and over again-- like ejecting the Waffle in Ontario and turning to the media and saying "are we main stream enough now?"  Only to have the media snigger behind their sleeves and up the anti.  Over and over.

Until we take the word socialist out of the preamble. 

And even that won't do it.

Now, when the mood is revolutionary, the NDP looks too mainstream. 

And, I say that as an NDP member, who has never and likely will never vote anything but NDP.

This protest is a protest against Corporate power.  And governments are seen to be in the graps of that corporate power.  The NDP not nearly so much as the Democrats in the States-- "Republicrats" as some call them.  But the NDP, by trying to identify so much as mainstream for so long, have unfortunately put themselves on the outside of this protest.

Where they should be. 

Where they should understand they should be. 

Any attempt by NDP leadership to get out in front of this parade and start pretending to lead it would be seen as an attempt by the establishment to co-opt the movement.

 

Maysie Maysie's picture

UPDATE: The march that was scheduled for 8am tomorrow has been postponed.

@Catchfire: First you mock Torontonians, then you want to be one of us? Make up your mind, daddy-o.

@Tommy: Yup.

Slumberjack

Tommy_Paine wrote:
Any attempt by NDP leadership to get out in front of this parade and start pretending to lead it would be seen as an attempt by the establishment to co-opt the movement. 

That's the nice thing about enjoying no expectations.  You're off the hook by default.

Catchfire Catchfire's picture

I believe it has been several days since I have given Torontonians a hearty mock. Are youse due again?

I was only making the point that you know at least one luminary. This guy. You're welcome.

@Tommy & SJ I overheard a woman giving a municipal politican (Vancouver Votes 2011! Woo!) what for simply for walking around with promotional buttons with her name it. I don't even think she was distributing them (although she probably would have given on if you asked). The complainant's point was that any attempt to self-promote, even a subdued one, comes too close to co-optation. I think she was on to something.

Tommy_Paine

Maybe I am tactless above, in terms of the NDP.  Thinking about it, I know there are individual members, some who I have met, some who I have worked for, who are decent people who feel like we do and are doing their damndest.  And, I won't admit to saying so, but on local issues there are Liberal and (ulp!) Conservatives who side with people. 

But what the fuck happens in our Legislatures and in Ottawa?  Where does that get lost?

It's the system, maaaan. 

Political parties have-- even if they want to change the system, or tweek it-- bought into it wholesale, they represent the system. 

And let's look at our system.  It's a parliamentary system developed by Elgin to contain the "mob".  A sort of "democracy if necessary, but not neccesarily democracy."  It was developed to keep the establisment in power, and a system evolved so that any radical change would be bogged down, shut down or otherwise thwarted. 

It's a system based on the pony express being the fastest form of mail.  When it took two weeks to go from London to Toronto.  The age of sail, of the horse... with steam power being something new. 

Things move a little faster today.  Political parties and the machinery of legislating cannot cope--- even if it wanted to.

That's why we are seeing movements-- the Arab Spring-- the Occupy movement--- the anti-Corruption movement in India spring up from the streets, because change is needed faster than the process of "change from within" can provide. 

This is particularly accute in British Parliamentary systems that are designed above all else, to prevent change unwanted by the established power structures.

 

edmundoconnor

Is a politician's mere presence at an 'Occupy' event to be viewed as suspect and an attempt at co-option? You can go too far with this. It would be difficult to castigate politicians for not listening, and at the time barring them from your protests because you fear co-option. I'd suggest that this is a question of degrees. Bob Rae would clearly love to co-opt the movement, and has been roundly mocked for his never wandering far from the media vans in Toronto. I'd humbly suggest there's an acceptable middle ground between his antics and not showing up at all. Barring or lecturing people who aren't necessarily in lock-step with the movement speaks to concerns about the frailty of such a movement.

2dawall

Does anybody know Lawrence McCurry and why he is saying this?

 

http://canadiandimension.com/articles/4228/

Tommy_Paine

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/blogs/taibblog/why-occupy-wall-stre...

Something I came across today.

I saw this interview a few days ago.  It's ten minutes-- but it's not necessary to listen to it all. 

Ventura says a lot of good things here.... but there's the unabashed self promotion..... 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58FlcqRE1Aw

howeird beale

Jonah Schein was there, too. And Olivia Chow looked overjoyed by what was going on.

Aristotleded24

Tommy_Paine wrote:
"The nicest answer I can conclude is, the message for the NDP is to hope all the protestors go away soon."

Actually, you have to sort of feel sorry for the NDP.

Ages ago, when they really were a revolutionary kind of party, the knock against them was that they were a revolutionary party.  So, they softened that aspect, over and over again-- like ejecting the Waffle in Ontario and turning to the media and saying "are we main stream enough now?"  Only to have the media snigger behind their sleeves and up the anti.  Over and over.

Until we take the word socialist out of the preamble. 

And even that won't do it.

Now, when the mood is revolutionary, the NDP looks too mainstream. 

And, I say that as an NDP member, who has never and likely will never vote anything but NDP.

This protest is a protest against Corporate power.  And governments are seen to be in the graps of that corporate power.  The NDP not nearly so much as the Democrats in the States-- "Republicrats" as some call them.  But the NDP, by trying to identify so much as mainstream for so long, have unfortunately put themselves on the outside of this protest.

Where they should be. 

Where they should understand they should be.

Any attempt by NDP leadership to get out in front of this parade and start pretending to lead it would be seen as an attempt by the establishment to co-opt the movement.

This is a very important issue for the NDP that you raise, Tommy. Several of us among the NDP base are at least sympathetic to the Occupy movements, if not actively involved ourselves. For this reason, I think it is important that the NDP find some way to connect with the movement, to channel it into something more. You articulately pointed out how the NDP boxed itself out of these kinds of movements, and the difficulty of the NDP becoming involved, but I think this is something the NDP must do, and that the consequences for the NDP would be far worse if they ignored this movement.

Gaian

quote:"Maybe I am tactless above, in terms of the NDP. Thinking about it, I know there are individual members, some who I have met, some who I have worked for, who are decent people who feel like we do and are doing their damndest. And, I won't admit to saying so, but on local issues there are Liberal and (ulp!) Conservatives who side with people."

With recognition of complexity - the most compelling of Chris Hedges' summary of the human condition - comes hope for solution.

That's where Jack was as well, a decent guy who was doing his damndest. And he respresented the very heart of the institution that isn't ever doing enough. He can't have known what opportunity awaited out there on the streets...

kanyenorth

socialdemocracynow wrote:

Look at all these lefties having an orgasm, it's just a fucking protest.. Calm down.

This is, while totally inapropriate, very funny. We live in an age where he have to complain over everything. Do any of these protesters think their grandparents' social gap was any smaller? Do any of these protesters believe that they represent 99% of the population? If even 1% of the population showed up for a rally it would be impressive. Honestly, I understand that you are upset with the American right to a free market because it can cater to already successful individuals. But what can we accomplish?
Tax the rich and feed the poor until there are no rich no more?-10 Days After
These protests have not achieved anything but congesting major streets.

Catchfire Catchfire's picture

Yes, and we have to consider that if we treat the rich poorly, they may just up and leave our society and start one of their own. Then where would we be?

Gaian

And one suspects that the rich might just hold out for more than 10 days. Give them a month. But aren't we inviting more historical revisionism in responding to this? :)

Tommy_Paine

Found this today.

http://howconservativesdrovemeaway.blogspot.com/2011/10/occupy-wall-stre...

"Bailouts, subsidies, tax breaks, special rights and privileges, regulations designed to restrict competition—to name a few of the many ways the government protects and stimulates corporate interests, and those things are every bit as anti-free market as, not to mention directly related to, the high taxes and excessive bureaucracy that gets Tea Partiers riled up. In other words, aren't these two groups—Occupy Wall Street and the Tea Party—raging against different halves of the same machine? Do I have to draw a Venn diagram here?"

 

howeird beale

kanyenorth wrote:
socialdemocracynow wrote:

Look at all these lefties having an orgasm, it's just a fucking protest.. Calm down.

Do any of these protesters think their grandparents' social gap was any smaller? Do any of these protesters believe that they represent 99% of the population? If even 1% of the population showed up for a rally it would be impressive.

 

I think one of the Occupy protesters signs, widely reproduced in the MSM, sums it up best: "CEO pay up 144%. How about you?"

Student and blogger (oh, and reeeeaaally lame rapper), huh? Do you get grants or loans for school? Or is mommy paying for everything? 'Cuz it used to be you could get out of college and your debts wouldnt be so high that you would have to declare bankruptcy if you didnt get a 60k+ job within 6 months.

Lame tweets, too, dude. "Occupy a job," huh, huh, daz funnee I nevah hurd dat one before. I was there and i work my ass off pal. How about you. Do you even launder your own shorts?

1% huh? Happens all the time: over 200,000 came out on a bitterly cold January day to protest against the 2nd Iraq invasion. That's more like 10% of Toronto population. While occupy was going on, 28,000 were simultaneously gathering to protest a quarry which will screw up the water supply for a million people in this province. There's your 1%

Block traffic on a Saturday morning, really, that's all you got? Those FIENDS!

Gotta ask, is that your face on the video on youtube? Or are you just trying to hide the fact that you're from the suburbs and still have your bum wiped for you? 'Cuz I'm thinking using the N word in a rap is a pretty dangerous move for a soft pink rich kid.

To quote from Risky Business:

"Go to school. Go learn something."

To quote from Spike Lee:

"What do you know 'bout me? Y'all can't even pee straight."

Uncle John

People are a little scared of revolutions, unless they are revolutionaries. Governments, of course, are especially scared. A lot of the negativity Occupy is going to get is going to come from this fear.

The actual 1% really have nothing to fear, so long as the demonstrations remain peaceful. China has something like 30,000 strikes and protests a year, and they know how to suppress them very well. The Chinese Communist Party is there to stay. They will exterminate half their own population if they feel it is necessary. And they have the means to. For thousands of years tiny governments have been able to suppress whole populations. In that respect, nothing has changed.

A large number of people within the 99% are not going to support the Occupy movement, even if the Occupy leaders imply they represent the whole 99%. They will back the 1% and the State. Some through self-interest, some through loyalty, and some through fear.

I am really afraid this is not going to end well. In the US, if Occupy turns into a second revolution, the revolutionaries have the right to bear arms, and may be able to force the State into a standoff. Right now, most of the gun people are with the Tea Party, so the State doesnt have to worry too much. If the Tea Party joins up with the OWS, things are really going to change. Not only that, but the US state was formed in rebellion and revolution, so some more is not out of the ordinary. The cat, as it were, is out of the bag. Not Canada. As in the UK, it is about the Authorities, who WILL prevail.

Ironically the people here in the Occupy are also among the most ardent supporters of gun control, which means they will have no means to defend themselves if the state, in all its power, goes to the streets as well. Here, only the police, military, and the criminals have guns. Given the order to start firing, they will. This is what frightens me. I don't want to die before my kids get to know me better.

In Canada, we had the Upper Canada Rebellion, Riel, the Winnipeg General Strike, and the FLQ. All of those uprisings were put down mercilessly by governments of all political stripes. If this gets out of hand, the Crown will prevail. That is what the Crown is for, as a backstop to eternal political Authority. Oh I guess now we know why the Armed Forces got the Royal put back in. They were expecting trouble.

So if you consider yourself a leftist and you are a monarchist and/or a gun control supporter, you are supporting the two most effective tools the State has to suppress you. You are really not a leftist but a faux-leftist who likes to use ideological trickery to lull the population, so that you will continue not to be bothered. Just post a few times here and vote NDP and up the workers!!!

And whoever the troll was that said that abolishing the Monarchy was not a 'High Priority', I hope they are happy now. Now, you can see the real reason for the Crown. And whoever believes in gun control, way not to have a revolution and surrender to the state. When the state and the criminals have all the guns, they can do whatever they want to you. Or make you do anything just by pointing one at you.

All of this is proving that I have probably been right. The State curtails freeedom. Now you are going to see how. The problem is not 'the rich' or 'the bourgeoisie' or any other political rhetoric designed to demonize one sector of the population over the other. The problem is Government. As it always has been. Until Government is severely curtailed it will bail out banks and wage wars and do whatever the hell it wants.

Go home. You are in the wrong country.

2dawall

OK I will try this again.  Does anybody know this guy and why he might be saying this when nobody else is (or  at least that I can find).

 

There was one more thing that kind of freaked me out. As I was leaving the media tent I spotted a woman who I recognized from many protests around town, she is a blogger for a popular alternative news site. After introducing myself, I asked her if she still wrote for that site and she said she did. I then asked her "as a journalist, are you not concerned with the lack of transparency in this movement?" What happened next made me feel like I was in the body snatchers film. She replied with "Go away, you're scaring me with your aggressive language, and I don't wish to talk with you anymore!" What??? I was shocked. Surly this woman had seen me around at other events as I her? How was asking her this question aggressive in any shape or form? I left the park more disturbed than I have ever been from a day of protest with maybe the exception of the day of the G-20.

 

2dawall wrote:

Does anybody know Lawrence McCurry and why he is saying this?

 

http://canadiandimension.com/articles/4228/

Mr.Tea

This Friday, I'm helping to lead Shabbat services for the Occopy Toronto folks. 5 o'clock in St. James Park. Look for the "School Tent"

Policywonk

Uncle John wrote:

In Canada, we had the Upper Canada Rebellion, Riel, the Winnipeg General Strike, and the FLQ. All of those uprisings were put down mercilessly by governments of all political stripes. If this gets out of hand, the Crown will prevail. That is what the Crown is for, as a backstop to eternal political Authority. Oh I guess now we know why the Armed Forces got the Royal put back in. They were expecting trouble.

The Rebellions of 1837-1838 (including the Lower Canada Rebellion) eventually lead to representative self-government (or responsible government), which was a key demand of the participants in both rebellions. I wouldn't put the October Crisis in the same list as either the Winnipeg General Strike or the Rebellions of 1837-38.

NDPP

Arrival of Mohawks Takes Occupy Up a Notch  -  by Ezra Levant

http://www.torontosun.com/2011/10/31/arrival-of-mohawks-takes-occupy-up-...

"...Do you think they'll enforce the law if Mohawk warriors bring their machine guns to downtown Toronto?

Or do you think they'll pull another Oka or Caledonia - just cut a big cheque to the criminals and give them the park."

vile lies and trash from Ezra the levitating ant

Maysie Maysie's picture

Some yurts have illuminated a problem.

Quote:

They're circular, adorned with esoteric symbols and often spotted on the windswept steppes or high-mountain pastures of Central Asia.

...

With winter fast approaching, the three yurts, erected over the weekend, are meant to provide warmth, shelter and a communal space for the ever-growing tent city in downtown Toronto. Despite their humble nomadic roots, the stylish yurts are a far cry from the chilly tents where most protesters sleep.

...

It remains to be decided how the largest yurt, next to the food station, will be used. Some proposals include a safe space for women, a general assembly area or a warm place for people to hunker down at night. The last option, though, could pose problems.

"Who gets priority access to sleeping in a yurt?" asked protester Jeff Wong.

Occupy Toronto organizers keep the large yurt under lock and key.

"We have to make sure [the yurts are] policed properly so they don't turn into crack dens," said Antonin Smith, who works on the Occupy Toronto food team.

This is not what democracy looks like.

 

howeird beale

Why? Why not?

 

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