Austerity Coming to Ontario 2

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M. Spector M. Spector's picture

Brachina wrote:
Andrea's.giving you a chance to have your say, so if you want her to go to war over this, then that is what you tell her. I think this is a cleaver move on her part. It will put huge pressure on Dalton and if she does vote against the budget it will be because she has the mandate to do so.

I disagree. This is shameless tail-ending by the NDP. Policy-making by opinion poll - and unscientific opinion polling at that. Instead of leading, and educating the voters about what austerity means, the NDP is looking for a way out. They are desperately hoping their little "consultation" will show that Ontarians want the Legislature to "work" and don't want an election, etc. etc. blah blah. Then Horwath can tell us we can't complain, because the opinion polls told her Ontario prefers austerity over democracy.

Never mind that the poor Ontario voters think they have no alternative because the NDP isn't presenting them with one.

ygtbk

M. Spector wrote:

epaulo13 wrote:

if anything we can take from the struggles in greece is that debt and austerity are vehicles to transfer wealthe to the 1%. the priority is coming together and organizing to defeating these measures.

Exactly. Unfortunately, it appears the Ontario NDP will be following in the footsteps of their social-democratic colleagues in Greece.

Instead of hailing McGuilty's corporate tax "freeze" at a measly 11.5%, they should be calling for - at the very least - a return to the paltry 14% corporate tax rate that applied less than two years ago. Sid Ryan says such a modest step "could balance the books without job loss or cuts to services". 

If Sid Ryan said that he's incorrect. According to CUPE, taking the Ontario corporate tax rate back to 14% would raise $2.5 billion, nowhere near enough to balance the books when the deficit is over $15 billion. See:

http://cupe.ca/economics/austerity-doesnt-work-ontario-balance

Fidel

Sure, the NDP could nationalise everything in sight tomorrow. And they could pay for it with Ontario savings bonds or even start creating money tomorrow, because that's what provincial governments do all'a time.

They just don't want to. And it's because they are the same as the other two parties!!

It's like Paul the slasher Martin's federal budget in 1995. Cover the kids eyes and hide the cat. Fiscal Frankensteins are on the rampage, once again.

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

M. Spector wrote:
If an election is forced over the budget the voters will have a chance to vote either for or against austerity. Should we be deprived of that chance to actually make a democratic choice, or should we capitulate to the agenda of the One Percent? Should we fear the voters and our ability to present an alternative vision, and arrange things so that we have as little democracy as possible?

I get your drift, but it sounds to me like you are viewing the world through rose-coloured glasses. Do Ontarians want another election? I'm in Quebec, so I don't know. My instincts say Ontarians will probly be annoyed enough with having to have another expensive election that they'll give McQuinty another, stronger mandate.

Fidel

Yes because we all know that provincial governments in Ontario are equivalent to federal ones in Greece. Same thing, really. It's clear as an azure heaven in deep summer after reading the gems in this thread.

I propose that we merge all threads and forums separating discussions of Canadian and Ontario provincial issues. And throw Greece in there for good measure. Because according to M. Spector we are talking about the same things, really.

And I should rally support for M. Spector's thoughts on eliminating duplication of government bureaucracies 12 or 13 times over across Canada. And we should blame the NDP for these inefficiencies in colonial administrative bureaucracies, because it is politically expedient to do so regardless of facts.

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

"The idea that voting against the budget may force an election is bull, sorry."

 

Federally, a budget is a confidence vote. Is it not so provincially?

Fidel

I think we should just admit that it's all the NDP's fault as M. Spector reminds us so often. It's better this way.

ygtbk

Boom Boom wrote:

"The idea that voting against the budget may force an election is bull, sorry."

Federally, a budget is a confidence vote. Is it not so provincially?

Yes, it is.

Freedom 55

Boom Boom wrote:

Do Ontarians want another election?

 

Ask most Canadians at [i]any time[/i] and they'll rarely tell you they "want another election". But given a choice between this austerity budget and another election, it's a no-brainer.

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

When does the vote on the Ontario budget take place? I wonder if there be any polling before that vote? I'd be interested to see the polling results.

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

Don'tcha know that Ontarians [b]hate[/b] elections? They cost so much money! There's nothing they would love more than to get rid of elections altogether and save that money to give to the rich who are suffering so desperately from the economic meltdown they created that they have to have their taxes cut in order to keep gas in the Bentley! 

Elections are just a nuisance! We should avoid them like the plague. Let's crown McGuinty king and have done with it. It's not as if we have any better alternative to offer.

After all, Ontarians voted for minority government last time. Don't you remember, it was right there on the ballot! So we are now obliged to make minority government work, by effectively letting Dalton rule as if he had a majority!

Fidel

M. Spector wrote:

After all, Ontarians voted for minority government last time. Don't you remember, it was right there on the ballot! So we are now obliged to make minority government work, by effectively letting Dalton rule as if he had a majority!

Millions of votes were wasted, and another four million plus didn't bother voting.

 

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

Well, they just had an election a short while ago - I doubt Ontarians will look kindly on having another one forced on them by a budget defeat. I think there's precedent for punishing Opposition parties that force an election. But, on the other hand, as previous posters wrote, it could be the Liberals who get punished by bringing forth this horrible budget. That's why we need polling before the budget gets voted on - if possible.

I wish there was a thread that discussed how to bring down deficits and debt without harming the most vulnerable in society. I'd like to see a budget that taxes the shit out of the most profitable corporations and the rich, personally.

Freedom 55

I guess I just don't see what's so scary about the [i]possibility[/i] of another election. [I'm guessing that Maysie's point was that the 3rd place party can't "force" an election. If an election is triggered it'll be a group effort brought about by the [b]Liberals[/b] presenting an intolerable budget, and the New Democrats [b]and the Tories[/b] voting against it.] No one knows what the outcome of such an election would be, but what's the worst case scenario? The NDP gets wiped-out? There's no more New Democrats at Queen's Park? How is that any worse than having 17 New Democrats who vote on what will likely be this legislature's most important piece of legislation [i]as if they were Liberals[/i]? What's the difference to the average Ontarian? Am I supposed to give a shit if Horwath loses her seat and has to find work elsewhere?

Maysie Maysie's picture

Yes, Freedom55, exactly.

I recall in yesterdecade when the "balance of power" was wooed and courted by the minority government, that the minority government had to compromise some/most of their idiocy (such as fucked-up budgets) in order to appease the party that held the balance of power.

Times have changed, I realize that.

I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but a non-confidence vote is a non-confidence vote. Rejecting the budget is rejecting the budget. Not sure how they became conflated. Either rejecting the budget of a minority government automatically triggers an election or it doesn't.

To use that as a threat to the balance of power (in this case, the ONDP) is bullshit, but the Ontario Liberals have learned from the federal Tories apparently.

It doesn't mean the ONDP has to take it.

Stand up for social justice principles, ONDP, for once in your damn life.

Life, the unive...

Maysie wrote:

The idea that voting against the budget may force an election is bull, sorry.

Shame on you.

For someone who is so hyper-critical of others you might want to check your facts.  The government controls the order paper.  All money bills are automatically votes of confidence in the Westminister parliamentary system.  When the government places the budget vote on the order paper for the day there will be three options facing the NDP. 

1. do nothing and abstain because they do not support the budget, but won't force an election 

2. vote for the budget as it is presented (which at that point may or may not include amendments)

3. vote against the budget which will cause the government to fall (assuming all the PCs show up and also vote against as they have signalled- which I actually doubt they will do- they are in no shape to go into an election either.)

Those are the choices.  There are no others.  So the NDP is exactly correct in their poll.  Exactly.  What you suggest is pure hypebole and not how our system works.  It is fantasy of the most ignorant kind.

 

The real shame should be on all those people who supported and stressed the need to strategicly vote for the McGuinty Liberals.  Now we have the worse of all worlds.  Hudak policies with no way to really stop them short of another election.  If you voted strategically and suggested others should do so and are upset with the budget the person you should blame is staring back at you from the mirror.

Life, the unive...

Maysie wrote:

Yes, Freedom55, exactly.

I recall in yesterdecade when the "balance of power" was wooed and courted by the minority government, that the minority government had to compromise some/most of their idiocy (such as fucked-up budgets) in order to appease the party that held the balance of power.

Times have changed, I realize that.

I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but a non-confidence vote is a non-confidence vote. Rejecting the budget is rejecting the budget. Not sure how they became conflated. Either rejecting the budget of a minority government automatically triggers an election or it doesn't.

To use that as a threat to the balance of power (in this case, the ONDP) is bullshit, but the Ontario Liberals have learned from the federal Tories apparently.

It doesn't mean the ONDP has to take it.

Stand up for social justice principles, ONDP, for once in your damn life.

So how much will your cheque be for so that the ONDP can mount an election campaign.  They don't come free.  So unless you are offering to do a lot of volunteer work and/or make a finacial contribution you are talking out of your hat.

Life, the unive...

Freedom 55 wrote:

I guess I just don't see what's so scary about the [i]possibility[/i] of another election. [I'm guessing that Maysie's point was that the 3rd place party can't "force" an election. If an election is triggered it'll be a group effort brought about by the [b]Liberals[/b] presenting an intolerable budget, and the New Democrats [b]and the Tories[/b] voting against it.] No one knows what the outcome of such an election would be, but what's the worst case scenario? The NDP gets wiped-out? There's no more New Democrats at Queen's Park? How is that any worse than having 17 New Democrats who vote on what will likely be this legislature's most important piece of legislation [i]as if they were Liberals[/i]? What's the difference to the average Ontarian? Am I supposed to give a shit if Horwath loses her seat and has to find work elsewhere?

Really you think the budget is the worse that can happen and having no NDP MPPs there won't make a difference?  That's just plain stupid or so profoundly ignorant of all the things that can happen with no checks on them it makes no difference.   What have you missed about what is happening with a majority government on the federal scene?  Stupid is as stupid does I guess.

Maysie Maysie's picture

The McGuinty Liberals are acting like Mike Harris Tories. This is NOT okay.

The budget isn't a hypothetical thing out there. Real people are going to be affected by it if it passes. I'm not into discussing various political maneuvers the NDP can do (namely vote with the government) unless the move is to stand up to the Liberals, reject the human-hating proposed budget and tell people why and get them onside.

Jeez, of all the points in history, now is the time! I know Ontario is still lagging behind but there's momentum in the NDP right now, isn't there?

While I appreciate ONDP asking for opinions, I cynically feel that it's a PR move, just to know how many lefties they're pissing off, and how many approve.

Yes, the ONDP is who I look to for leadership since they're all we've got. Leadership means not supporting this budget.

 

Life, the unive...

Maysie wrote:

The McGuinty Liberals are acting like Mike Harris Tories. This is NOT okay.

The budget isn't a hypothetical thing out there. Real people are going to be affected by it if it passes. I'm not into discussing various political maneuvers the NDP can do (namely vote with the government) unless the move is to stand up to the Liberals, reject the human-hating proposed budget and tell people why and get them onside.

Jeez, of all the points in history, now is the time! I know Ontario is still lagging behind but there's momentum in the NDP right now, isn't there?

While I appreciate ONDP asking for opinions, I cynically feel that it's a PR move, just to know how many lefties they're pissing off, and how many approve.

Yes, the ONDP is who I look to for leadership since they're all we've got. Leadership means not supporting this budget.

 

I understand the budget will hurt people, people who can least afford to be hurt.  I expect so does the NDP caucus.

However, where is your offer to donate and/or volunteer as much as possible with your demand for action.  The NDP cannot sustain an election campaign across this province on self-righteousness.  It takes money and volunteers.

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

I agree with you Maysie. But I still want to see some polling before the budget vote, if possible, just to get an idea what might be coming if there is an election called because the budget doesn't pass.

 

ETA: If polling shows that defeating the budget will result in a McQuinty or Hudak majority if an election is called, is that really what anyone wants?

NDPP

This is looking like a good-cop/bad-cop shakedown on behalf of the big bankers (Drummond et al) to cut social spending and intensify the class-war that all political parties seem to be advancing. Look at Europe and see how  supposed social-democrats and 'socialist' parties rolled over there. Ours are even wimpier. Doesn't look good folks. Look who they're consulting on this latest bankster piracy:

Tim Hudak: McGuinty's Budget Must Confront the Crisis

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2012/03/27/tim-hudak-mcguintys-budge...

"Ontarians are staring at a $30 - billion deficit on a $411 billion accumulated debt. These numbers are so staggering that they lose meaning unless we step back to gain perspective. I did that recently in New York, where I met with leaders in the global financial community.

THese individuals are utterly impartial, and see things only through the unforgiving realities of global economies and market conditions. A singular theme emerged repeatedly - the link between unsustainable debt and economic growth. Businesses know that governments with high debt loads cannot afford lower taxes or the best infrastructure - two basic attractions for investment...

Ontario's debt is the symptom of an underlying illness: over spending. On that point, if there's some good thing to have emerged from the debacle in Greece, it's that people now understand how neglect of debt issues can quickly become a crisis..At such times, heavily indebted governments lose all fiscal room to manoeuvre - and can lose control of their own destinies as a result..."

This contemplated budget is precisely a strategem to 'lose all fiscal room to manoevre and lose control of their own destinies as as result'. The sellouts in government and opposition  will now dicker and dither over how best to extract maximum political capital for themselves,  while crushing those on the bottom of the economic ladder in the interests of those on top whose looting of wealth solely for their own ends, increases to unparalleled levels.

Freedom 55

Life, the universe, everything wrote:

That's just plain stupid or so profoundly ignorant of all the things that can happen with no checks on them it makes no difference.

Blah, blah, blah. If they want to be checks then they should fucking act like them, not doormats.

And FYI, I'm neither ignorant nor stupid.

Doug

ygtbk wrote:

If Sid Ryan said that he's incorrect. According to CUPE, taking the Ontario corporate tax rate back to 14% would raise $2.5 billion, nowhere near enough to balance the books when the deficit is over $15 billion. See:

http://cupe.ca/economics/austerity-doesnt-work-ontario-balance

 

Quite so. Congratulations, you just found 1.5% of the budget! So we can forget about cutting that much this year, but then there's next year. If spending rises to match what was raised, the problem remains. That's not political, it's accounting. A healthy business as usual in the public sector with spending growing at 5% per year as it has the last few years can't happily co-exist with an economy growing at 2% for very long.

Michelle

Maysie, I LOVED your responses to that "survey"!  Good for you!  I also find that it's best to just ignore people who say that you don't have a right to an opinion until you write a cheque.

Freedom 55 wrote:

I guess I just don't see what's so scary about the [i]possibility[/i] of another election. [I'm guessing that Maysie's point was that the 3rd place party can't "force" an election. If an election is triggered it'll be a group effort brought about by the [b]Liberals[/b] presenting an intolerable budget, and the New Democrats [b]and the Tories[/b] voting against it.] No one knows what the outcome of such an election would be, but what's the worst case scenario? The NDP gets wiped-out? There's no more New Democrats at Queen's Park? How is that any worse than having 17 New Democrats who vote on what will likely be this legislature's most important piece of legislation [i]as if they were Liberals[/i]? What's the difference to the average Ontarian? Am I supposed to give a shit if Horwath loses her seat and has to find work elsewhere?

EXACTLY.

What people are forgetting is that NONE of the parties have any money for an election right now, not just the NDP.  So none of them want an election.  They're all playing chicken.  The NDP should call their bluff. 

And if that does throw us into an election, then you know what?  Let's just do it.  Let's have an election where NONE of the parties has any money to campaign the way they normally do.

I swear, if the NDP ever had enough backbone to take a radical action like risking an election six months after the last one by voting down a budget that hurts people on social assistance and demonizes public sector workers, I would not only donate and volunteer, I'd probably even join the party again.

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

I would wait and see what the polls say before advocating for an election now. Does anyone really want to risk a McQuinty or Hudak majority?

Life, the unive...

Freedom 55 wrote:

Life, the universe, everything wrote:

That's just plain stupid or so profoundly ignorant of all the things that can happen with no checks on them it makes no difference.

Blah, blah, blah. If they want to be checks then they should fucking act like them, not doormats.

And FYI, I'm neither ignorant nor stupid.

I didn't say you were, but the opinion you are expressing is.  There is a difference.  Saying it won't matter one little bit if people like Andrea Horwath or Jagmeet Singh are no longer in the Legislature is the stupidist of stupid.

Life, the unive...

Michelle wrote:

Maysie, I LOVED your responses to that "survey"!  Good for you!  I also find that it's best to just ignore people who say that you don't have a right to an opinion until you write a cheque.

Thanks for the bullshit reconstruction of my comments.  Feel free to wrongly paraphrase anyone you like.

What I said is that if you want the NDP to put their money where their mouth is, as it were, the people calling for that should also put their money where their mouth is.  That's not saying you have to write a cheque to express an opinion.  That's saying if the NDP does vote against the budget, thus making an election highly likely, the call for those actions are meaningless if you are then going to cut and run.  So by all means call for the NDP to vote down the budget, but back up your words with a willingness to help with what that will create.  It's called being responsible for your words and the deeds you are calling for in others.   Or if you like being politically mature. 

When I sent in my response that is exactly what I did.  I asked the NDP to vote down the budget, even if it meant and election and I pledged to do what I could to support the NDP in my riding and provincially so that the strongest possible message could be sent, with NDP success, about how wrong this kind of 'austerity' is when the real target is the people who had nothing to do with the economic times in the first place.  That's taking resposibility for what you are asking others to do in your name.

Freedom 55

Life, the universe, everything wrote:

Saying it won't matter one little bit if people like Andrea Horwath or Jagmeet Singh are no longer in the Legislature is the stupidist of stupid.

 

If they vote like Liberals than, no, it certainly doesn't matter. Except to those who are so deludedly hyperpartisan that they think a red and orange knife in the back is preferable to a solid red or blue one.

Life, the unive...

Yes I'm hyper-partisan.  That's the problem.  Couldn't possibly be your hyperbolic temper tantrums.

MegB

Life, the universe, everything ... you think you can pull back on the insulting language?  Thanks.

Life, the unive...

Ah so it is okay for some people to be insulting, but not others.  Oh so typical of this place.  It reminds me of high school all those years ago where the cool kids get to say anything they want, but if we nerds speak up we can expect to be shorted.

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

Boom Boom wrote:

I would wait and see what the polls say before advocating for an election now. Does anyone really want to risk a McQuinty or Hudak majority?

..for as long as i've been voting the big bad cons have been used to scare people into voting for the ndp or liberals. when what is needed is a more militant and active population. years of moderate leadership in the union movement and the ndp has created passive responses to crisis and when the shoe does drop all people can do is look around for someone to save them rather than getting radical and personally involved beyond elections. the struggle we face goes much further and deeper than this budget. capital has taken us to the brink of disaster economically and enviromentaly. the response needs to match the attack. que students is an example of where this needs to be taken.

Doug

You can't scare up a more militant and active population in time for an election in May.

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

..people already know how fucked up things are. they don't need to be made scared. they need leadership that goes beyond elections or they will look for other solutions such as the new movements that have been confronting capital globally. the speed to which they have grown leaves little doubt that we need not wait years.

NDPP

Ontario's 2012 Budget: Completing The Job Mike Harris Started  - by Hugh Mackenzie

http://rabble.ca/blogs/bloggers/mgregus/2012/03/ontarios-2012-budget-com...

"The crazy irony of Premier Dalton McGuinty's ninth budget is that it completes the job of cutting government down to size started by the Mike Harris CONservatives in the 1990s...the result is the same.

Ontario is not in a fiscal crisis. It is in recovery - more slowly than we would wish, but recovery -- from the deepest recession to hit the world since the 1930s.

Most notably, the budget ignores the proverbial elephant in the corner of Ontario's fiscal room - the structural fiscal capacity gap left behind by tax cuts implemented since the late 1990s that Ontario could not afford.

The budget is decidedly not fair..."

janfromthebruce

Huh, Doug? I'm actually with Life here. I don't think Ontarians want another election. Having said that, I think Andrea can negotiate a better deal for vulnerable Ontarians. I personally feel that Hudak would come to power and it would be hell. It would be like the lovely Harris years. I remember that election where unions sat on their butts (basically) as payback to Rae and we got Harris, and the common sense revolution - how'd you like those apples?

Seriously, I think it would be a very bad strategic move - and no, I sure wouldn't be out doing all the supporting and campaigning and running a office. And $$$ - tapped out - 2 elections, an leadership convention, you got to be kidding right?

 

Freedom 55

Boom Boom wrote:

Does anyone really want to risk a McQuinty or Hudak majority?

 

Are those the only two options? I thought the NDP was brimming with confidence these days. Why wouldn't it be an opportunity to gain seats, or even form government?

If the NDP is going to vote with the government on this Mc[b]G[/b]uinty already has his majority. So yeah, I'll take my chances with another election.

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

You're assuming folks are politically aware. I think the vast majority of the electorate are dumbasses when it comes to politics. All they want is 'steady as she goes' with no surprises. Occasionally we do get surprised, though, as last year's orange crush in Quebec showed.

Freedom 55

Doug wrote:

You can't scare up a more militant and active population in time for an election in May.

 

Nor will you ever as long as people are convinced that the needs of the public should be subservient to the needs of the party, and not the other way around.

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

Freedom 55 wrote:

Are those the only two options?

Did you read my post? I said Ontarians need to look at the polls to see if a McQuinty or Hudak majority is in the cards before taking the government down on a budget vote.

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

janfromthebruce wrote:

I personally feel that Hudak would come to power and it would be hell. It would be like the lovely Harris years. I remember that election where unions sat on their butts (basically) as payback to Rae and we got Harris, and the common sense revolution - how'd you like those apples?

The post immediately preceding yours points out that the McGuilty budget is simply finishing the job that Mike Harris started. Is that what you want the NDP to support?

Yes, Rae poisoned the well so that the unions sat on their butts and let Harris in. But if Andrea Horvath said "no, we won't vote for a wage freeze for public servants" she'd have labour election volunteers coming out the wazoo for the ensuing campaign, and the vast organizational resources of the trade union movement at the disposal of electing an NDP government.

On the other hand, the NDP voting for the McGuilty budget would ensure that the labour movement sits on their hands come the next election.

MegB

Life, the universe, everything wrote:

Ah so it is okay for some people to be insulting, but not others.  Oh so typical of this place.  It reminds me of high school all those years ago where the cool kids get to say anything they want, but if we nerds speak up we can expect to be shorted.

Feel free to provide me with examples of similar language being used against you in this thread, and I'll be happy to consider those as well.

Life, the unive...

Try 73, 75 and 79.  But I'm not one of the cool kids so I'm not allowed to sit at the table.  I just have to sit here while the cool kids get to fling whatever they want at others.

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

Good post, MS - something to think about. But I'd still watch the polls, if there are any, before the budget vote. No sense shooting yourself in the foot.

Life, the unive...

M. Spector wrote:

janfromthebruce wrote:

I personally feel that Hudak would come to power and it would be hell. It would be like the lovely Harris years. I remember that election where unions sat on their butts (basically) as payback to Rae and we got Harris, and the common sense revolution - how'd you like those apples?

The post immediately preceding yours points out that the McGuilty budget is simply finishing the job that Mike Harris started. Is that what you want the NDP to support?

Yes, Rae poisoned the well so that the unions sat on their butts and let Harris in. But if Andrea Horvath said "no, we won't vote for a wage freeze for public servants" she'd have labour election volunteers coming out the wazoo for the ensuing campaign, and the vast organizational resources of the trade union movement at the disposal of electing an NDP government.

On the other hand, the NDP voting for the McGuilty budget would ensure that the labour movement sits on their hands come the next election.

If you are going to attack people could you at least get their name right.  It is Horwath.

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

If there are polls showing that bringing down the government on a budget vote would result in a McQuinty or Hudak majority, then what's the point? If, on the other hand,  polls show the ONDP becoming government, then go for it!

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

Life, the universe, everything wrote:

If you are going to attack people could you at least get their name right.  It is Horwath.

So the best counter you can come up with is to attack me for a typo? Not surprising.

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

Boom Boom wrote:

If there are polls showing that bringing down the government on a budget vote would result in a McQuinty or Hudak majority, then what's the point? If, on the other hand,  polls show the ONDP becoming government, then go for it!

I wish you'd quit spamming us with the same post over and over again, Boom Boom. We get it already.

The NDP has to vote for the Mike Harris agenda until such time as the polls predict an NDP majority. Got it.

NDPP

Yes, because the harder we're squeezed the better their prospects...

our pain, their gain.

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