Ford Desecration Pt IV - the march to Detroit continues

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mark_alfred

There's a couple of web initiatives trying to raise money to buy the video.  The most prominent of these is being run by the Gawker reporter who first broke the story:  rob-ford-crackstarter.  I have mixed feelings about donating to it though.  The whole societal trend toward vigilantism, betrayal of trust, and lack of privacy is unsettling.

NorthReport

Prominent Ford supporters are not going to personally show up to purchase the video.

The problem for the Ford supporters, and I'm sure it is being, or already has been, explored by them, is how to get rid of all the evidence, and the people who have the video know that, which is the one of the many reasons they are so jumpy as reported on Gawker. 

One scenario is that the police will get the video, and report that it was destroyed acquiring it, or there is no incriminating evidence on it, whatever, and probably that is what Ford is counting on. 

Deny! Deny! Deny!

And Ford's brother has justed tweeted that he has never seem any evidence of his brother's involvement with something like coke.

This appears to be all part of a well orchestrated campaign, and Ford has powerful friends in very high places, with big bucks. 

Too bad the actual video was not acquired before this hit the press.

 

 

 

Boze

Who's entitled to privacy in the age of cell-phone cameras?

Nobody. A lesson for those who do things they'd rather people not find out about. Everyone's dirty laundry is fair game. With Google Street View and the like, it's only going to get harder to keep secrets. Either own your crack smoking by standing up and admitting you like to puff the pipe, or don't smoke crack.

NorthReport

I think that's true, as it will soon be hard to see any sunshine at all, here on the BC Coast, as the drone proponents move in on North America as well. 

Paladin1

We are past the point of needing proof to sink Fords ship with this Crack missle.  All the video owners need to do is to go on record and say "Hey someone stole the tape".

 

One side will say LOL you never even had a tape in the first place.

The other side will say WTF the RCMP stole the tape on Harpers orders.

Either way the damage is done.

 

Lets face it. It doesn't matter who you are, all of us have some kind of secrets in our closet. If the media gets you in their sights your fucked.  I can't stand Ford, don't get me wrong (or get me wrong on purpose) but something about this whole raising money to buy apparently secretly recorded camera footage doesn't sit well with me.

NorthReport

I agree.

Was the guy who secretly recorded Romney which basically did him in, paid for his efforts?

Is anybody still alive in that videotape besides Ford? If so, they may get caught up in this as well.

NorthReport
Boze

NorthReport wrote:

I think that's true, as it will soon be hard to see any sunshine at all, here on the BC Coast, as the drone proponents move in on North America as well. 

 

The crucial question is who controls these technologies. Is global surveillance avaiable to us all, or only to governments and other centres of power? Who watches the watchers?

NorthReport

Quite the imagery for the centre of the universe.

$59,663 - 9 days left to reach $200,000

http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/rob-ford-crackstarter

mark_alfred

There was an interesting interview with Robin Doolittle, one of the Star reporters who viewed the video, on CBC Radio.  She was asked whether the Star had made a purchase offer to the video producers, and she stated that none had been made, since the fear was that the purchase of the video would become the story, rather than the video itself.  However, she stated there was some conflict about this position within the ranks of the Star.  It's an interesting interview.  Well worth listening to.

Interesting how there is no such conflict within Gawker.  They want that video and consequences be damned.  They'll do whatever it takes to get it.  The fundraising to purchase the video is now over $60,000.  At the rate it's going it will be over $200,000 in a few days.

The difference between the coverage by the Star and Gawker can almost be an analogy to the difference between the States and Canada.  Even the tone of the written articles shows a real difference.  There's an almost artificial stifling politeness to the Star story, whereas the Gawker story blatantly proclaims Ford is a "wild lunatic" who "smokes crack cocaine".  I think this stems from different libel laws in each country, with the States being far more lax about it.

Generally I prefer the slow steadiness of Canada, but in the case of Ford, Toronto is becoming a laughing stock internationally.  People are reading about this and wondering why we've not tossed this fool out long ago.  There's an interesting article about this in Macleans, entitled "the Ford Zone".

Junkyard Dog

Prominent Ford supporters are not going to personally show up to purchase the video.

Well, of course not. Who said they would? The likes of Stephen Harper and Mike Harris, et al don't get their own hands dirty, nor do the business "leaders" they hang with. No, such men have underlings to carry out any messy scutwork, particularly that which involves dealing with the peons.

But it occurs to me that creatures like Ford don't much like paying hush money - which is what this would have amounted to if the video's peddlers had personally approached him to see if he'd be willing to pay for it - unless it's absolutely necessary, and even then, it's hardly something they enjoy. If these guys are genuinely afraid of this little situation they've brought about, I can't say I blame them; Pissing off powerful bullies is not a way to stay healthy, and I don't doubt Ford is boiling mad at this mess being dumped at his feet. I can't imagine if the fury generated would be worse if it's all lies, or if there's any truth to it, though.

Either way, Ford is definitely going to want revenge. If the video is indeed for real, then the guys responsible may want to release it in order to protect themselves. Of course, if it's true, then Ford knows exactly who these guys are, and he's going to go after them regardless.

voice of the damned

I think this stems from different libel laws in each country, with the States being far more lax about it.

Sullivan Vs. The New York Times, which held(according to the Globe's recent video on the topic) that you can't be sued for libelling a public figure, even if your story was false, as long as you believed the story to be true.

nicky
HumbleOne

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Our mission is to ridicule the timid ignorance which obstructs our progress, and promote intelligence - which presses forward.

 

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A. No. Our stories are purely fictional. However they are meant to address real-world issues through satire and often refer and link to real events happening in the world

NorthReport

Having a twin brother sounds like a brilliant defense and should put this matter to rest once and for all. Laughing

nicky

Does anyone know how much money has so far been pledged to Gawker to buy the video?

Stockholm

The Ford family is worth hundreds of millions of dollars. Is there a possibility they could pay the hoodlums the $200k and get a hold of the video and destroy it?

Mr.Tea

Stockholm wrote:
The Ford family is worth hundreds of millions of dollars. Is there a possibility they could pay the hoodlums the $200k and get a hold of the video and destroy it?

Well, one very plausible theory going around is that the drug dealers initially made the tape in order to blackmail Ford and extort money from him and when that didn't work, they're now trying to sell the tape to the media.

voice of the damned

Stockholm wrote:
The Ford family is worth hundreds of millions of dollars. Is there a possibility they could pay the hoodlums the $200k and get a hold of the video and destroy it?

Well, sure, but as I think has been pointed out, that would in no way guarantee that the film is destroyed. The person who made it could just forward it to another cell phone, sell the original to the Fords, and then turn around and sell the other copy to a media outlet.

Of course, if, and I'm saying IF, you are a wealthy customer of crack dealers, there would probably be people in the underworld who would be happy to "deal with" a double-crossing blackmailer on your behalf. You probably wouldn't even have to ask.

 

 

 

NorthReport

$65,000. but I doubt very much this approach will work. Hush money or the police will shut it all down before that happens.

http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/rob-ford-crackstarter

nicky wrote:

Does anyone know how much money has so far been pledged to Gawker to buy the video?

nicky

If the druggies have offered to sell Ford the video that may result in a charge of blackmail

If Ford buys the video and destroys it or even hides it from the police that may result in a charge of obstruction of justice.

Any deal for the video between Ford and the (other) druggies may well therefore have criminal consequences.

On the other hand, there is nothing illegal, as far as I can see, about the druggies selling the video to the medai.

mark_alfred

It is such a bizarre story that I almost wonder if the federal Conservatives didn't hire some actors to approach the Star, to have a potential distraction story in the background that could be activated at a moments notice via a gossip site in the States, in case the Conservatives found themselves in need of a distraction.

Sineed

Giving $200,000 to crack dealers/murderers in order to get rid of Rob Ford is a Pyrric victory, no?

NorthReport

What is the Martin Proserity Institute?

If these good people are so concerned about Toronto why don't they volunteer their services to help the city for nothing, otherwise folks might think they are suggesting a make-work project for themselves.

 

 

voice of the damned

What is the Martin Proserity Institute?

Apparently, it's the think-tank headed by Richard Florida, that urban theorist who came out with the formula about how you can judge the quality of a city by how many gay people live there, ie. the more, the better(nothing against gays living in cities, but his formulation strikes me as a little sound-bitey, and possibly patronizing).

From his twitter feed...

  • RT @TorontoStar: [email protected]Richard_Florida on the new dynamic of contemporary #capitalism and the need for new tools to harness it: http://t.co/WRu… about an hour ago
  • Probably gives you an idea where he's coming from. His recent piece in the Globe did have a few substantial points, however.  

    http://tinyurl.com/a22rvvo

     

     

     

    NorthReport

    Tks votd,

    When I saw their pumpedup google description of themselves below well you know the rest.............

    Martin Prosperity Institute | The MPI is the world's leading think-tank ...martinprosperity.org

     

    onlinediscountanvils

    onlinediscountanvils wrote:

    Catchfire wrote:
    Racism?

    Surprised The hell you say!

    [url=http://ethnicaisle.wordpress.com/2013/05/17/innocent-bystanders/]Innocent Bystanders[/url]

    Quote:
    Doolittle and Donovan basically repeated an old-age practice of marking certain people out as weird, threatening ‘others’, using subtle foreignness as a kind of shorthand for that not-so-subtle Canadian xenophobia. It’s irresponsible, it’s stupid, and they should do what they can to fix their mistake.

    NorthReport

    $72,000 raised - 8 days left

    www.gawker.com

     

    Michelle

    mark_alfred wrote:

    It is such a bizarre story that I almost wonder if the federal Conservatives didn't hire some actors to approach the Star, to have a potential distraction story in the background that could be activated at a moments notice via a gossip site in the States, in case the Conservatives found themselves in need of a distraction.

    That's exactly what I was thinking.  As someone said above, if this video is a hoax, Rob Ford just got re-elected.  Well, who are we kidding?  He's re-elected anyhow.  The majority of voting Torontonians (the only ones who count in an election, so I don't buy into this whole, "only a quarter of Torontonians voted for him" thing) were stupid enough to vote for him the first time despite all the ridiculous stuff he's done, and they'll vote for him again because he seems like an everyday Joe who keeps getting picked on by the media and "mean" lefties.  (Well, and many lefties ARE "mean" and keep making nasty comments about his appearance, which is really stupid, because no one over the age of 12 likes to watch schoolyard bullying shit like that.)

    Stockholm

    Keep in mind that Ford and his brother are both Conservativeparty members and Doug Ford wants to run in the next election...if the federal Tories wanted to create a diversionary scandal why would they pick in the Fords who are so heavily identified with the Tory brand. There already stories about how this crack video is lethal for Hudal and the Ontario PCs

    NorthReport

    How long has the Toronto Star been on on this whichhunt against Ford?

    The Star seems to have crossed the line

    So far at least it looks like the score is: 

    Ford 3

    Toronto Star 0

    And so far they have only raised $75,000 with 8 days left.

     

     

    Paladin1

    $72'000 for some drug dealers, that's great. While they're at it they should donate some money to the starving, homeless and mentally ill citizens in Toronto too.

    Paladin1

    If this video isn't produced The Star will be paying for Ford's comfortable retirement.

    mark_alfred

    I didn't read anywhere that the producers of the video tried to extort money from Ford with the threat of the video.  I'd be interested to read that article, though.  I did read that CNN-Canada contacted Ford's office to ask about the video after Gawker got in touch with CNN to see if they would be on board to purchase it -- and then since Ford's office became aware of it Gawker decided to publish the story of having viewed it, followed by the Star.

    My "hire some actors to have a potential distraction story" was just a passing thought.  I, like many lefties, do engage in conspiracy thoughts sometimes.  But I think that scenario is super-unlikely.  I think Ford is quite worried.  Most of the papers have editorials calling on Ford to address this more thoroughly.  He cancelled his radio show (or perhaps AM-640 itself cancelled it).  International coverage has largely questioned the integrity of Torontonians for electing this guy in the first place.

    As for Ford targeting the dealers who betrayed him, that assumes he knows who they are.  What if he regularly gets crack from whomever he can find?  What if he had a memory blackout at the time of the video shoot, and has no idea whom it could be or when it was?

    mark_alfred

    NorthReport wrote:

    And so far they have only raised $75,000 with 8 days left.

    If it keeps going at the current pace, then the $200,000 should be raised in 6.5 days.

    lagatta

    I read that Florida story, yep, gays, hipness, creative professions, gentrification, his usual schtick... But he made a very odd comment (in the context of his own "analysis") about Québec, in that Globe piece.

    Michelle

    Hmm.  I thought I read in a couple of places that the people who did the video offered it to Ford first and he refused.  Let me see if I can find it...I hope I didn't just see it in a comment section or something!  I've been having fun reading the comments after the articles on this one... :)

    Edited to add: my apologies - I was sure I'd read that in a couple of places, but I must have just been seeing people speculating.  I'll edit my post above.

    Michelle

    It's Gawker raising the money, not the Star.  I also have mixed feelings about raising money to buy a video from drug dealers.  I love how Gawker has spun it that they're raising the money in order to give them to nice, principled guys who are worried about their safety.  If the video is genuine, then Ford already knows who they are, and a couple hundred thousand dollars isn't going to be enough money for them to get out of his reach.

    (Edited to remove reference to them attempting to shake Ford down on it - thought I'd read it in an article, but must have just been speculation by commenters that I was remembering.)

    mark_alfred

    Hey, no worries.  It's been a fun couple of days to read the news.  Second only to the coalition attempt, I'd say.

    mark_alfred

    mark_alfred wrote:

    NorthReport wrote:

    And so far they have only raised $75,000 with 8 days left.

    If it keeps going at the current pace, then the $200,000 should be raised in 6.5 days.

    To clarify, I feel it will be 6.5 days in total.  It's been going on for about two days now, so it seems it will be raised 4.5 days from now, if the pledges continue at the same rate they have been (approximately 30G a day).  By Saturday it should hit $200,000.

    Junkyard Dog

    As far as we know, the drug dealers have not approached Ford or his people with the intention of selling their questionable 'treasure,' so this little exercise can't be classified as extortion or blackmail. Peddling the alleged goods to the highest bidder in the media may not be the most lily white of activities, either, but it's not particularly illegal. Unless the whole thing turns out to be a fake, of course.

    You gotta wonder why these druggies would seize on such a scheme, though, and the very fact that it seems plausible at all does not exactly speak well of Mayor Fathead. I myself thought the whole thing insane the first time I heard about it, but the more I thought on it, the less 'out there' it seemed. Ford's tenure at City Hall thus far has been like a particularly sleazy reality show, one with an especially unappealing, ugly-minded oaf of a star, and this alleged behavior fits in well with the tabloid television level that Ford seems most comfortable operating in. And you know what? If you operate like a Toronto Sun story magically come to life and practically revel in such a reputation, much as a pig happily rolls in its own filth, then you can't very well complain when its less savory aspects come around to haunt you.

    Or rather: You can, but it makes you a complete slimeball hypocrite.

    How long has the Toronto Star been on on this whichhunt against Ford?

    Ah, yes. The evil leftist Toronto Star, and it's 'which hunt' against poor, persecuted, inoffensive, helpless, defenseless widdle multimillionaire Rob Ford. Boo hoo hoo hoo hoo!

    Gimme a break. Boss Hogg has been repeatedly caught with his meaty paw in the cookie jar, the Star reports on it, usually in their stiflingly polite and bloodless neoliberal terms, and that constitutes a witch hunt?

    morose about th...

    I'm wondering about the rules for commenting on this story.

    I noticed that the CBC's website doesn't allow people to comment on this story any more. The first day it broke I read a number of comments there. Now they're gone.

    The Toronto Star doesn't seem to be allowing comments either.

    On the other hand, The Toronto Sun is allowing comments. Of course, being The Sun, the moderators are removing anti-Ford comments as fast as they can.

    I wonder about the legal issues. I don't think the video is a matter for the police. You can't arrest someone for using drugs on video. At least I hope they can't. If I'm right about this (and I pray that I am. Otherwise any street camera footage of kids smoking pot could be used to mass-arrest pot smoikers), then there is no legal reason to ban comments.

    So why won't the CBC or Star take comments on Ford's crack video?

    onlinediscountanvils

    My guess is that it's as simple as neither outlet having sufficient staff to moderate the inevitable shitstorm, so they just don't allow comments. I don't know what's typical of the Star, but the CBC routinely has stories where the comment section is closed.

    mark_alfred

    Junkyard Dog wrote:

    You gotta wonder why these druggies would seize on such a scheme, though, and the very fact that it seems plausible at all does not exactly speak well of Mayor Fathead.

    It does seem odd.  From the sound of it, the dealers sound in agreement with Ford's politics, sharing an hostility toward Justin Trudeau:

    Quote:

    Next, the voice raises the name of Liberal Leader Justin Trudeau. The man says he can’t stand him and that he wants to shove his foot up the young leader’s “ass so far it comes out the other end.”

    Ford nods and bobs on his chair and appears to say, “Justin Trudeau’s a fag.”

    So it's not political.  It must just be opportunism on their part.  I think after the alleged military ball incident and the Sarah Thomson incident, that they realized they might be able to get good money giving some people proof that Ford is a reckless partier.

    mark_alfred

    onlinediscountanvils wrote:

    My guess is that it's as simple as neither outlet having sufficient staff to moderate the inevitable shitstorm, so they just don't allow comments. I don't know what's typical of the Star, but the CBC routinely has stories where the comment section is closed.

    That's interesting.  The fact that there's a potential "shitstorm" regarding this story does suggest that Ford STILL has some very passionate supporters here.  When I've checked the comments of the various international press covering this, there's not been a huge amount of comments, except for a few making snide comments about Canada.

    I had thought for a while that having two different news organizations, one south of the border, simultaneously and independently giving similar reports on this, would be enough.  But, it does seem clear that having the actual video may be necessary.

    Kaitlin McNabb Kaitlin McNabb's picture

    Hey all,

    a reminder that terms like "fathead" and the like are not appropriate on babble because, regardless of intent, they can alienate and hurt people within our babble community.

    Thanks!

    mark_alfred

    NorthReport at May 20, 2013 - 10:57am wrote:

    And so far they have only raised $75,000 with 8 days left.

    It's now 18:30, and it's at $80,000.  So, five grand in 7 hours thirty minutes.  So, a bit more than 15G a day.  With seven days left, it may not reach 200G.  Seems to be slowing down.  At this rate it will be $195,000 that they end up with, and likely the rate of donations will slow down further during the week.  So, it may not make the $200G by the deadline.  Seems the dealers set their price a little too high.  They should just hand it over to the Star and be done with it.

    http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/rob-ford-crackstarter?c=home

    voice of the damned

    So, it may not make the $200G by the deadline.  Seems the dealers set their price a little too high.  They should just hand it over to the Star and be done with it.

    Well, I think the more likely course of action for them would be to sell it for whatever amount of money indiegogo has managed to raise by the deadline.

    And since the Star reporters have publicly criticized the crowdsourcing efforts, they probably won't be in much of a position to make a counteroffer against indiegogo.

    mark_alfred

    If indiegogo has not raised the $200G by the deadline, then they've raised zero.

    Quote:
    This campaign will only receive funds if at least $200,000 is raised by Mon 27 May 11:59PM PT.

    voice of the damned

    mark_alfred wrote:

    If indiegogo has not raised the $200G by the deadline, then they've raised zero.

    Quote:
    This campaign will only receive funds if at least $200,000 is raised by Mon 27 May 11:59PM PT.

    But what exactly does that mean? Does it mean that they will only buy the video if they get 200 grand and no less?

    And if that's what it means, who is putting that stipulation on indiegogo? The dealers? Because my theory is that the dealers would be willing to sell for less than their original price, if no one has offered it. I really don't see the dealers saying "Well, we can't get $200 000, only $150 000, so I guess we might as well just give it to the Star for free".  

    Unless indiegogo is now in a legally binding situation where they can't offer anything less than 200 grand. Not sure how they would have gotten into such a situation.

     

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