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Mr. Magoo

You seem to have already deleted your picture.


KarlL wrote:

JKR wrote:
SocialJustice101 wrote:
According to a recent Ipsos poll, Lib voters would want their party to prop-up the NDP vs Ford, by a 3-1 margin.   And that's among the remaining Liberal voters.   The percentage should be even higher among regular Liberal voters, a significant portion of who is already backing the ONDP in this election.


The NDP would win a sizeable majority if instant runoff voting was being used instead of plurality voting. As things stand, the PC's could come in second place and still win a "wrong winner" phoney FPTP majority government.


True - but I am wondering where this argument ends up, given that the NDP has endured in the bad times as a 3rd party (or 4th party, federally, from 1993-97) , holding seats notwithstanding waves for other parties, precisely because we don't have a runoff leading to a two-party showdown. 

FPTP certainly isn't ideal but over the long run, a runoff system would have elected countless majority Liberal governments, as the usual second choice of most non-Liberal voters (even if that may be less true of hardcore partisans).  In some respects, minority achieves a more representative outcome,  The 1/5th (hopefully 1/4th, from my perspective) of the electorate that votes Liberal on June 7 could have a smattering of seats and some role in determining the outcome, as opposed to them all being corralled under the NDP.  Why should it be the latter based on their reluctant 2nd choices?

IRV may be better than FPTP in elections with more than two candidates but IRV is also a flawed disproportional system. This is why PR systems are preferable, even when they are moderately proportional.


Sean in Ottawa wrote:

It is hard to imagine why you would do runoff rather than some kind of PR -- even with some limitations if people thought they were needed.

At the end of the day, the desire for runoff vs PR is based on the willingness to accept either perpetual majority or minority governments.

I think that governments must not only cooperate with the house but also over longer term with previous and past governments to provide stability. To that end minority multiparty government is best to avoid huge changes when the population has barely moved. Ongoing minority government, with parties used to working with each other would likely be more stable over a longer term even if some times there is short term instability in composition of government.

I agree that PR systems are much better than IRV even though IRV is better than FPTP. I think more cooperation and less tribalism within our politics would be a huge improvement over the status quo.