Occupy Toronto, part 2

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Catchfire Catchfire's picture
Occupy Toronto, part 2

 

Continued from here.


 

Issues Pages: 
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NDPP

I like Slumberjack found the over and under tones of the article in question and the attitudes expressed therein not at all consistent with any movement I would consider worth supporting. That being said, I have to say that on the now several occassions that I spent a bit of time listening to what the people who are actually down there have to say - I was gratified to hear discussions of some sensitivity, creativity and intelligence being contributed as to how NOT to go the bad old way of simply running people off or throwing out 'problems'. I got the impression that wouldn't be on or acceptable with most folks there. 

 I also believe that people really need to check it out and see if there's anything they might do or contribute to this thing to increase and enrich its possibilities.  As has been said, it's no easy task to keep a thing like that going. It's got all kinds of problems and challenges, but it does seem to me there's receptivity and openness to listen and learn there as well. The recent evening I attended, some very savy indigenous women activists and the excellent  No One is Illegal's Harsha Walia from Vancouver were listened to and questioned closely and intensely by the audience. The feedback indicated many people were unaware of many things but as importantly this was recognized and acknowledged along with the desire to listen and learn from those who did have information to share.

Most importantly, as  I thought I knew already, most of the MSMs 'reporting' coming out of Occupy Toronto does not accurately depict the reality and multiplicity of the thing itself. I also think as is usual with these endeavours, there are too few doing too much of the work, and some people are burning out as a result. My suggestion if you haven't yet been is to make a visit and see what you think and/or what you might do, if anything, to help..

 

Slumberjack

howeird beale wrote:
You just have to drop a token in the TTC.

howeird...and I'd just leave it at that, except for this one and only curiosity gleaned from the entire screed, particularly for those beyond the edge of the known universe.

Slumberjack

NDPP wrote:
... on the now several occassions that I spent a bit of time listening to what the people who are actually down there have to say - I was gratified to hear discussions of some sensitivity, creativity and intelligence being contributed as to how NOT to go the bad old way of simply running people off or throwing out 'problems'. I got the impression that wouldn't be on or acceptable with most folks there. 

I think it goes back to the earlier discussions about 'what is the one demand,' which talked about the need to formulate a simple and effective message to address the original concern of economy and Wall Street, with presumably the ultimate view of attempting to lay the one demand down on a wide open and almost limitless expanse, which in reality constitutes a horrific battlefield strewn with countless socio-economic victims and refugees.

The social democratic angle [the one that needs exposing frankly] that we find in this context is strikingly similar to the one played out elsewhere, wherever they've been asked to choose between practical and demonstrated solidarity with the serious concerns of left wing activism it seems, [and which effectively constitutes the ever widening margins of society as dictated through mutual agreement between power and those representing themselves as being in opposition to power] and presenting a reconcilable face through the application of so much political cosmetics as to bury what was originally represented in public.

That's the quandary isn't it?  In the first instance, does the movement formulate a demand to the economic apparatus that the lower to upper middle class, along with the unions, be better shored up as things progress, or will there be a consensus to permit all the victims to come forward at once; essentially a focus and a drive from the bottom up which attemps to carry everyone forward?

NDPP

Obviously, one hopes the latter. This drive is present in the little camp but needs reinforcing, participation and support to grow forth and multiply. They're up against the nitty gritty down there and the contradictions commented upon may indeed tear the thing apart in the end, but there does seem to be a core of people trying to go forward in a good way, while increasingly becoming aware of just how expansive the 'horrific battlefield' really is...

NDPP

I see that November 12 will mark one month for Occcupy Toronto's existence. They invite all supporters and allies to join their MARCH 'IN SOLIDARITY WITH ALL FIRST NATIONS'. Meet Saturday, November 12, at St. James Park @ 2:00 PM. Tell everyone to come.

This will be a good warm-up for the upcoming Indigenous Sovereignty Week events which start Mon, Nov 14:

http://www.defendersoftheland.org/toronto

NDPP

Roxanne Dunbar Ortiz at Occupy Boston (and vid)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GIBZRRENQk

"This is what we want. People together, helping one another..."

 

Slumberjack

wage zombie wrote:
Are your comments about the situation in Toronto informed by having visited the occupation?

One further point of clarification to the exchange in the previous thread. Most of the supposed "99%" are not actually on location at the encampments, even when added together across the continent.  If the slogan is worth it's salt however; they'd certainly have to be on location elsewhere from where they stand by virture of living in the corporatist society, if nothing else.  I don't know if it speaks to any truly democratic character that I'm aware of, when a minute representative fraction [or faction as it were] of the "99%" who have the wherewithal through means or proximity to be on site, offers up an opinion to suggest that the bringing forward of concerns from the wider locations are out of order. Eventually we'd have to ask ourselves who is actually being represented in such a strategy.

Slumberjack

The Situationists and the Occupation Movements (1968/2011)

Quote:
In the late 1950s and early 1960s a tiny group quietly lays the groundwork for a new type of radical contestation of modern society. Though at first almost totally ignored, the group's new tactics and new perspectives gradually begin to resonate with more and more people, particularly after the 1966 Strasbourg scandal makes headlines all over Europe. In early 1968, a group directly inspired by them (the Enragés) begins agitation in the Parisian universities, which leads to demonstrations, expulsions, and then several days of street fighting (in the which all the situationists take part). The police brutality and hundreds of arrests arouse sympathy from all over the country, forcing the government to back down and pull back the police. Students and other young people occupy the Sorbonne and invite everyone else to join them, to come together in a democratic general assembly to address the many problems they face and see what solutions they might come up with. (Does a lot of this sound familiar?) The situationists take part in the initial stages of the Sorbonne general assembly, where they advocate two main policies: maintaining direct democracy in the assembly, and appealing to the workers of the entire country to occupy their factories and form workers councils - i.e. direct-democratic workers' assemblies that would bypass the labor-union bureaucracies. Within two weeks (in one of the few movements in history to spread even faster than the current OWS movement) virtually all the factories of France are occupied by over 10,000,000 workers. The situationists and Enragés and others organized into a "Council for Maintaining the Occupations" (CMDO) undertake a massive effort to urge the workers to bypass the union bureaucrats and carry on the occupations in order to realize the radical possibilities that their spontaneous action has already opened up, noting that if they do so they will soon be confronted with the task of restarting the social functions that are actually necessary, under their own control. Here, finally, the situationists' desires are not fulfilled - the workers, understandably unsure of what to do in this strange and unaccustomed situation, allow the union bureaucracies (which had resisted the occupation movement from the beginning) to insinuate themselves back into the movement in order to deflate and dismantle it.

6079_Smith_W

Slumberjack wrote:

wage zombie wrote:
Are your comments about the situation in Toronto informed by having visited the occupation?

One further point of clarification to the exchange in the previous thread. Most of the supposed "99%" are not actually on location at the encampments, even when added together across the continent.  If the slogan is worth it's salt however; they'd certainly have to be on location elsewhere from where they stand by virture of living in the corporatist society, if nothing else.  I don't know if it speaks to any truly democratic character that I'm aware of, when a minute representative fraction [or faction as it were] of the "99%" who have the wherewithal through means or proximity to be on site, offers up an opinion to suggest that the bringing forward of concerns from the wider locations are out of order. Eventually we'd have to ask ourselves who is actually being represented in such a strategy.

In the first place, the 99%-1% dichotomy is not one of poltical values, but of economic disparity. 

There are plenty of issues, and plenty of strategies that are brought up through the occupy movement, and obviously not all of them are going to be the same in all locations. The prominence of aboriginal issues here in Canada is just one example.

For that matter, there are plenty of people and organizations who claim they represent a certain group or class of people and that their philosophy is the way to tackle those grievances. I seriously doubt they rest on any solid democratic foundation of all the people they claim to speak for.

And if they did, so what? Actually the Harperites might win that one. There are enough cases of people making terrible political decisions when things are put to an election, so that's not the ultimate measure of whether an idea is sound or not.

In the interest of fostering an open climate which is tolerant of alternative and radical thought, perhaps we should evaluate these grievances and strategies on their own merit, rather than trying to discredit the people making them by turning it into a numbers game.

After all, no matter what we say here, the ultimate test of these ideas will be whether they spead beyond the camps into real change. 

From what I can see, some of that shakeup is happening.

 

 

 

Slumberjack

6079_Smith_W wrote:
In the first place, the 99%-1% dichotomy is not one of poltical values, but of economic disparity. 

The economy is political.  For everyone's benefit though, perhaps you'd care to exercise how they are not.

Quote:
For that matter, there are plenty of people and organizations who claim they represent a certain group or class of people and that their philosophy is the way to tackle those grievances. I seriously doubt they rest on any solid democratic foundation of all the people they claim to speak for.

I guess that's what it means when we hear talk about 'empowering the committees.'

Quote:
And if they did, so what? Actually the Harperites might win that one. There are enough cases of people making terrible political decisions when things are put to an election, so that's not the ultimate measure of whether an idea is sound or not.

I take it then that you're an aficionado of the FPTP electoral apparatus, where the voices of millions are routinely and effectively cut off from the social discussion in this country.

Quote:
In the interest of fostering an open climate which is tolerant of alternative and radical thought, perhaps we should evaluate these grievances and strategies on their own merit, rather than trying to discredit the people making them by turning it into a numbers game.

I didn't invent the 99% slogan...but I'm apparently included in that number by dint of not being part of the 1%.  It's not my numbers game.  Criticism here has been limited to evaluating social democratic attempts at subversion and appropriation by prescribing certain housekeeping initiatives to maintain the favour of authority, and to respond to criticism for having done so.

Quote:
From what I can see, some of that shakeup is happening. 

Would that there were enough of it to go around.

6079_Smith_W

@ Slumberjack

Of course the economy is political, and people have political opinions.  That was not my point. The numbers simply point out the great economic disparity in our society. They say nothing about what values those people hold.

And nice try on the FPTP smear. No, while I do favour democratic representation, I support a more proportional system. My point is that ideas should be evaluated on their own merit, not on how popular they are. It is common knowledge that the movement is so far focused on those camps and the groups which support them. That does not mean they are not valid.

And if I read it right, you seem to be saying that the occupy movement is ultimately just a whitewash of the system as it is. 

Hmmm.... I wonder why. Do you think those people should be devoting their time and energy somewhere else?

 

 

 

Slumberjack

I believe the social democratic experience as we've come to know it is a whitewash.  Wherever it's nostrums [appeasing the sensitivities of power] begins to take effect can arguably be described as undergoing the whitewash procedure.

6079_Smith_W

If I am not mistaken that is the same democratic principle you are appealing to in #7 as a means of undermining the occupy protesters, no?

If your criticism is issue-based, fine; make that argument. But if it is a case of criticizing a political model simply because it doesn't enjoy majority support, there are plenty of people with ideas - good and bad - who fall short there. It's pot and kettle argument, really. The only real proof there is is how far the movement spreads.

 

 

Slumberjack

6079_Smith_W wrote:
If I am not mistaken that is the same democratic principle you are appealing to in #7 as a means of undermining the occupy protesters, no?

Well, just to quickly bring us back to what is actually going on here, the disagreement centered around a discussion to do with restricting an Occupy zone to certain people.

Quote:
If your criticism is issue-based, fine; make that argument ......

The only real proof there is is how far the movement spreads.

I don't know if it would make a difference at this point...... 

It's already spread, so the question is if it can deepen. The proof is in it's potential after a wider and more visible security crackdown.

6079_Smith_W

 

Slumberjack wrote:

I don't know if it would make a difference at this point...... 

Actually, the question of locked spaces is a fair one, and it made me wonder as well what is going on.

On the other hand, there are a lot of reasons why that might be happening, and until I knew more, I wouldn't necessarily disregard the range of things people there are working on based on that one thing. 

Even if it is the product of stupid thinking, and not a necessary action, people do make mistakes.

(edit)

And although I see the need for organizing and working together, it's not like any one group of people owns the movement like it is a local franchise.  I have always seen it as defined by that concept of gross inequity, and how to fight against it.

 

 

 

Caissa

And just down the road in London:

Quote:

After a tense standoff blew past two deadlines to get out of Victoria Park, London police moved early Wednesday to force Occupy London protesters to leave.

Dozens of officers surrounded the park about 12:30 a..m., as Day 18 of the protest began, ordering the occupiers to vacate or risk trespassing charges.

Only hours earlier, the protesters had appeared to call the city's bluff, as a deadline for police to dismantle their camp came and went without incident.

A second key deadline -- 10 p.m. Tuesday, by when the protesters were told they'd be charged with violating a bylaw against being in the park at night -- similarly passed with no action by authorities.

But all that changed after a groundswell of supporters and onlookers dissipated and protesters settled in for the night.

http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/2011/11/08/18939481.html

Slumberjack

6079_Smith_W wrote:
I have always seen it as defined by that concept of gross inequity, and how to fight against it. 

Many people correctly see it as that. But realistically as well, when Occupy talks about corporatist greed, on the one hand the discourse represents a series of maintenance operations to try and prevent things from getting any worse for the middle class, even as that particular lobby in their more honest moments can be bought to acknowledge further sacrifice as potentially being necessary in order to achieve even that goal, while in the second instance, certain elements have been attempting to use the occasion to serve notice that they can no longer tolerate corporatism's most glaring effects, either to experience or to behold in a society of such obvious largesse wherever one lifts their chin from the ground. To be polite about things, it is certainly the case that not every interest applied to the respective Occupy endeavors arrived from the same vantage point, and thus far not everyone is willing or able to perceive a common destination. In merely adopting a wait and see approach as to what could potentially emerge from all of this, we'd have to set aside a lot of history.

NDPP

here's some of their General meeting stuff:

http://occupyto.org/2011/11/07/ga-minutes-nov-6th-2011/

looks to me like the PTB are tiring of the Occupations and begin to plot to end them. I suggest that if there is support for such things, in TO, then people had best bestir themselves and get their asses out to join Occupy TO's march on Saturday. Info above. I see the camp's continuation as important, if only for its as yet unrealized potential. Realization will come directly commensurate with participation by progressive forces. Otherwise its demise is imminent and assured.

NDPP

Transforming Easy Cynicism into Deep Resistance...by Phil Rockstroh

http://dissidentvoice.org/2011/11/transforming-easy-cynicism-and-other-f...

"...Let us have a little rendezvous with reality..."

Rockstroh's take on Occupy

6079_Smith_W

Slumberjack wrote:

when Occupy talks about corporatist greed, on the one hand the discourse represents a series of maintenance operations to try and prevent things from getting any worse for the middle class.

In merely adopting a wait and see approach as to what could potentially emerge from all of this, we'd have to set aside a lot of history.

Really? I agree that some of it is diffuse and with differing opinions, and with its share of fucked up decisions (like most real organizations, actually), but when I look at the issues being raised by the ACTION, as opposed to just the many words, most of it raises the plight of the poorest and the homeless - those who have no choice but to live that way. And it has also kept aspects of the rich and the powerful in the spotlight.

Is it perfect? Of course not. But would we be seeing these issues on the news with such regularity otherwise?

Look at the excuse Vancouver is using to try to shut them down. 

Look at what happened in London, Ont last night.

There was someone from Regina on the radio this morning who said the city sent out health and safety officers concerned about them being in the cold (something they DON"T do about the real homeless)  - and they took away their donated port-a-potty. 

And interestingly enough, that story was followed by this other story of people living in tents in the cold:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/sudbury/story/2011/11/09/sby-attawapiskat-...

...oh, and the movement demonstrated that they have the power to shut down the port in Oakland. Surely that, and them cracking one of the oldest and strongest social institutions in England must count for something.

In short, if you see something that is not being done, or which you think is being done wrong, I think the proper response is to grab a shovel and get in there, and try to make that change. After all they are the ones who are putting themselves on the line right now while there is an opportunity. It begs the question of who is waiting and seeing.

 

Unionist

6079_Smith_W wrote:

 

In short, if you see something that is not being done, or which you think is being done wrong, I think the proper response is to grab a shovel and get in there, and try to make that change. After all they are the ones who are putting themselves on the line right now while there is an opportunity. It begs the question of who is waiting and seeing.

 

Well said.

 

6079_Smith_W

 I was just thinking - how often is the issue of public access to property - private, and government - brought front and centre, with people doing the hard work of taking a stand in the cold to point it out? 

... and with the property owners actually forced into the open to react?

It seems to me this is a golden opportunity for anyone who is concerned with the issue of property.

 

Slumberjack

I think you're falling back on a worn out argument, which apparently has some utility for Unionist as well, of a similar type that is often employed by those military affairs specialists spread out all over the social commentariat, which says if one hasn't actually been in the trenches...one hasn't earned the privilege of engaging in critical analysis. We routinely observe such tactics coming from a position of woefully inadequate visibility as to what the targets actually do or have done, which is usually followed up by the target falling into the trap of revealing a dissertation or C.V. of some sort, which can then be picked over by turning everything into a feats of strength contest.

6079_Smith_W

No, I didn't say don't offer criticism, but it helps to be supportive in whatever way you can, and acknowledge people's work and intention. 

And I haven't had that much time myself, so I'm not talking about battling credentials.  Really, I am just talking about doing what you can if you have the means, even if that is bringing some firewood or food, or taking away some garbage and recycling. And if not, well, at least don't work against them.

We are fighting for a common goal in a lot of things, after all. We aren't all going to approach it the same way.

 

 

NDPP

Occupy Toronto - Food Wish List

http://occupyto.org/2011/11/11/occupy-toronto-food-wish-list-081111/

"The food tent is looking for the following items...

 

Occupy Toronto Sets Up Camp in Queen's Park

http://www.cbc.ca//news/canada/toronto/story/2011/11/12/toronto-occupy-q...

"Some Occupy Toronto protesters are setting up camp in Queen's Park..."

your help and support needed now...

Doug

Way to miss the point while still being supportive. If nothing is compared to the 1960s again, it will be too soon. Occupy and the hippies aren't really the same beast.

6079_Smith_W

Doug wrote:

Way to miss the point while still being supportive. If nothing is compared to the 1960s again, it will be too soon. Occupy and the hippies aren't really the same beast.

I don't know. I think he uses a simplistic term - hippies - to describe a series of movements which were far more diverse and broad-based. In that, I get your criticism.

But if we get beyond the hipster bias against the word "hippie" I think there are quite a few parallels that he gets right. I have no problem with a comparison to the 60s, because there were one or two constructive things which actually came out of that era.

Besides, I think there are more than a few "hippies" supporting the movement this time around. I don't have a problem with that, as it is not an exclusive club, nor is it the vehicle for any single agenda.

Sineed

NDPP wrote:

 

Occupy Toronto Sets Up Camp in Queen's Park

http://www.cbc.ca//news/canada/toronto/story/2011/11/12/toronto-occupy-q...

"Some Occupy Toronto protesters are setting up camp in Queen's Park..."

your help and support needed now...

Apparently, Queen's Park is the property of the University of Toronto, not the city, and it is leased to the province. So the city wouldn't have jurisdiction, and couldn't evict Queen's Park protestors. Perhaps the province could, as the lease holder...

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

Defend Occupy Toronto - A Statement From the Greater Toronto Workers' Assembly

[Please attend the Occupy site as soon as you can. A solidarity demo has been called for 11pm Tuesday November 15]

Mayor Rob Ford has given the notice of eviction to Occupy Toronto. We, the Greater Toronto Workers’ Assembly, express both our unequivocal support for Occupy Toronto and our intention to mobilize our members, allies, and resources against any forced eviction and unprovoked arrest. We are not a faceless organization: mass movements and radical change are not inspired by distant and isolated attacks on the capitalist system, but by the courage of neighbours, friends, and co-workers who stand against injustice and inequality.

We are workers, organizers, and activists and we are angry, we are militant, andwe are not going away. We are the real faces you can no longer ignore, the faces that Occupy Toronto has given voice to, the faces of workers, unionized and non-unionized, public and private sector, employed and over-worked, underemployed, and unemployed; to women and trans people; to persons of color; to immigrants, status and non-status; to house-workers, paid and unpaid. These are also the faces of the GTWA and our allies. This is a clarion call to our members, our allies, and the citizens of this city: join in the defence of Occupy Toronto (St. James Park, as soon as you can make it, solidarity rally starts at 11pm) .

While our resources are meagre, our conviction is unshakeable. There are times when a principle alone has more material force than the crude matter of police batons and jails. We remember G20: we were there and we are here too. Mr. Ford, one day the sun will set on your mayoralty. As you recede into the recesses of history, we who fight for a better Toronto will keep the name ‘Rob Ford’ alive as the penultimate expression of reactionary buffoonery. Occupy St. James Park. Occupy workplaces. Occupy government offices. Occupy everywhere.

Please attend the Occupy site as soon as you can. A solidarity demo has been called for 11pm tonight. The scheduled GTWA Solidarity Tuesday meeting is still being held.

6079_Smith_W
M. Spector M. Spector's picture

Derrick O'Keefe wrote:

You cannot evict the idea -- at long last expressed in no uncertain terms -- that you, the 1 per cent super-rich, have been getting away with crimes against the people for far too long.

You cannot evict the idea that the rich and the powerful are responsible for the social and economic crisis we face.

You cannot evict the idea that money must cease to dominate and corrupt politics.

You cannot evict the idea that everybody, all 100 per cent of us, deserves a home, a permanent, safe and comfortable roof over their heads; this is an idea that you cannot evict no matter in how many places you try to evict the homeless who have joined our encampments. You cannot evict from sight and from mind the social problems that your 1 per cent centric system has created and perpetuated.

You cannot evict the idea that the environmental crisis is driven by the insatiable and irrational system of capital accumulation that you sit atop.

You cannot evict the idea that the war machine is paid for with the blood and treasure of the 99 per cent, and yet serves only your 1 per cent interests.

You cannot evict the bonds of international solidarity that have already been forged, with actions like the Egyptians' sharing lessons of struggle in New York or the Boston Occupation of the Israeli consulate in solidarity with the Freedom Waves flotilla to Gaza.

You cannot evict this rebellion because it has become global, beginning in Tunisia and spreading from there and picking up People Power and indignation along the way.

You cannot evict the joy we have all felt in joining a movement that has finally spoken to class injustice, and to the exclusion of the 99 per cent from power at all levels.

[url=http://rabble.ca/blogs/bloggers/derrick/2011/11/open-letter-1-you-cannot...

 

NDPP

Indigenous Declaration of Solidarity

http://occupytoronto.org/2011/11/16/indigenous-declaration-of-solidarity/

"We the First Nations Defenders of the land wish to convey the message that we have come to aid in the peaceful occupation of St. James Park...

Occupy Toronto, Press Statement Nov 15

http://occupyto.org/2011/11/16/press-statement-november-15th/

"We call on everyone to come to the park and stand with us to defend our right to continue this process.."

THEY STAND FOR YOU - STAND WITH THEM TORONTO!

 

 

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

EVICT FORD. OCCUPY TORONTO.


Rally and march
Saturday, November 19 at 2:00 p.m.
Assemble at St. James Park
(on King St E, between Church and Jarvis)

In just a few weeks, the Occupy movement has become a global phenomenon, with over 1,400 protests worldwide. In Toronto, a peaceful occupation has been underway at St. James Park, raising demands for economic and social justice for everyone. Polls in Canada show that a clear majority of people support the protests.

But now Mayor Rob Ford is trying to evict the protesters. We think it's time to evict Rob Ford instead. Ford's attacks on good jobs, public transit and city services has turned public opinion against him - and in every ward of the city. While the millionaire mayor spends millions on high-priced consultants, he's trying to make ordinary people pay for the economic crisis.

We won't let him do it. Please join us this Saturday to be part of a city-wide rally and march. Show your support for the Occupy movement, and its demands for a better world for everyone.

"You can't evict an idea whose time has come!"

Organized by Occupy Toronto

Web: http://www.OccupyTO.org

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/OccupyToronto

Twitter: https://twitter.com/OccupyToronto

NDPP

A Revolution or Evolution

http://www.metronews.ca/toronto/local/article/1027947--a-revolution-or-e...

"They argue disbanding the camp will destroy their movement and prevent them from working collectively to understand and resolve social and political problems. Here are some excerpts from their sworn statements..."

Toronto's Protesters Have Right to Stay Put

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/opinions/opinion/torontos-protesters...

An article by University of Toronto law professor David Schneiderman, arguing in favour of Occupy Toronto protesters

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

[url=http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/toronto/occupy-toronto-evic... surprise: notorious right-wing judge rules Occupy Toronto must leave the park[/url]

NDPP

OCCUPY TORONTO IS BEING EVICTED. Please Come and Support at St James Park ASAP

Please contact Toronto Mayor Rob Ford (416) 397-3673 or email: [email protected]

"City manager says by midnight, mayor pressing for sooner..."

www.occupyto.org

Uncle John

32 HOUR WORKWEEK WITH NO REDUCTION IN PAY

- will reduce unemployment

- will mitigate wealth disparity

- is simple

Unionist

[url=http://news.nationalpost.com/2011/11/21/occupy-toronto-protesters-vow-to... surprise - church refuses to grant sanctuary to protesters[/url]

Quote:

The dean of St. James Cathedral said the church gave the city permission to issue trespass notices to protesters camped out on cathedral lands.

“The courts have spoken,” the Very Reverend Douglas Stoute told reporters at an afternoon news conference. He said he was concerned about the potential for violence after some Occupy members said they had no intention of leaving the park.

“That kind of [talk] invites violence and chaos,” Dean Stoute said, expressing hope that the dispute would be “resolved smoothly.”

Amen.

NDPP

re: 'the courts have spoken'  the dean just happens to be married to a Superior Court Judge...

Occupy Toronto Campers Defy Eviction Order

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/story/2011/11/22/occupy-toronto-tu...

"Occupy Toronto protesters remain hunkered down in St. James Park after a midnight Tuesday eviction deadline. The Occupy Toronto livestream website which has provided video feed from the downtown park carried a banner after midnight reading

'Occupy Toronto Eviction Watch Has Begun'

CBC POV: 'Do you agree with the Judge's decision?''

so far most do...

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

Linda McQuaig wrote:

As lawyers from the Law Union of Ontario point out: "Some inconveniences to local park users is a small price to pay for the larger price being paid by the 99 per cent worldwide in the face of an economic system that privileges the few over the many."

Are occupations really necessary to draw attention to their cause? Perhaps not. But I'd trust their judgment over mine. After all, they've managed to change the public discourse, putting inequality front and centre -- something activists and writers, myself included, have failed to accomplish despite decades of trying.

[url=http://rabble.ca/columnists/2011/11/occupy-movement-moves-us-new-income-...

 

Doug

It looks like the police are coming this morning. They're assembling at locations close to St James Park as well as behind Police HQ. 

Maysie Maysie's picture
NDPP

Livestream: police have brought a sound-cannon to the site

NDPP

Livestream: Buses of riot police have arrived at St James Park

NDPP

Livestream: Judy Rebick calling for anyone able to attend the Park and stand in solidarity. General Assembly at noon

Uncle John

32 hour workweek with no reduction in pay

- reduces unemployment

- gets some money back for the working class from the 1%

- Is a concrete demand we can talk about, agitate for, and implement in the current system.

As I warned elsewhere on this board, the power of the State in a Monarchy is Absolute. Indeed the whole constitution in monarchist countries is set up EXACTLY to suppress popular operations such as Occupy. Of course, when I spoke about abolishing the Monarchy her a few months ago, many people on this board told me I was wasting time. Another thing they do in monarchies is lock people up in concentration camps, also known as 'unconstitutional detention facilities', invented by the British Empire we still seem to have a massochistic love for.

Considering Monarchy is EXACTLY set up to suppress protest movements, people might start listening up. Nothing will substantially change while there is a monarchy. Maybe this fact will start to percolate through some stubborn skulls. Anyone who has tried to suppress Republicanism in Canada has also suppressed Occupy, in modern Internet meme talk, LIKE A BOSS.

Anyone within the ranks of the popular movement who supports the Monarchy is a class traitor. Pure and simple.

If you want to change the system, you have to ... uh .. change the system. DUH!

 

NDPP

CP 24 News coverage: One of the remaining resistors awaiting arrest held up a sign with the defining message of this Occupation:

'O Canada: Our Home ON Native Land!'

nussy

Police are respectful and show contraint. 

RevolutionPlease RevolutionPlease's picture

Hundreds of OFL members in the park.

6079_Smith_W

Uncle John wrote:

 Another thing they do in monarchies is lock people up in concentration camps, also known as 'unconstitutional detention facilities', invented by the British Empire we still seem to have a massochistic love for.

Since you're off topic already, I'll just point out that the Brits didn't invent concentration camps. The Russians, the Spanish and the Americans did it first. So at least one of those wasn't a monarchy.

Sorry for the interruption. I know it must be a very tense and shitty day in Toronto.

 

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