Ontario Budget 2

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mark_alfred
Ontario Budget 2

Doctors for Fair Taxation wants "the New Democratic Party to vote against this budget unless the government agrees to increase taxes on high-income-earning Ontarians."  I agree with this sentiment, and suggest we write and urge Andrea Horwath and the Ontario NDP to follow through with this recommendation.

Regions: 
NorthReport

Yes!

 

NDP conditions on Ontario budget include tax hike for highest earners

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ndp-conditions-on-ontario-b...

Brachina

You beat me to it Northreport :D

It a good idea, modest enough that Dalton will look like an ass if he doesn't agree. I think she maybe throw a couple more proposals at Dalton if he doesn't agree to this one along simular lines of different modest tax increases, but if he rejects them all, she'll bring his government down, because lets be honest he's wasting everyones time by not being reasonable.

mark_alfred

Many Conservative supporters accuse Doctors for Fair Taxation of being in a conflict of interest, since they are publicly funded.  I feel this is a red herring attack on a group that is advocating a good thing.  But regardless, it's useful to counter it with the fact that there is also Lawyers for Fair Taxation.  Here is their petition.

NorthReport

Definitely a step in the right direction by Horwath.
Ball is now in McGuinty's court - does he want an election or not?

 

NDP wants new tax for income over $500,000; HST off home heating

 

http://www.thespec.com/news/ontario/article/698498--ndp-wants-new-tax-fo...

 

Brachina

May as well continue the Budget discussion here.

Btw I wonder if the Mulcair ads with thier proNDP message will help Andrea. After all the Federal party is back to 30 percent on Ontario at the same time as the Ontario NDP. I think thier is a diffent brand connection there and if the ad campaign goes well for the NDP, both Mulcair and Andrea's boats may rise, which is especially good for Andrea because the Ontario NDP has no where near the Federal Party's money and is 3 million dollars in the hole (which is the same as the
liberals and half of what the Tories have)

Sid Ryan talked a big game, I hope his Union is willing to back it up with Hard cash if we end up in an election.

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

Horwath looked good on P&P tonight, and said there are a couple more measures coming out in the days ahead to put to McQuinty in return for NDP support in passing the budget. 

janfromthebruce

Andrea is doing this one right. This is reasonable request - since we are all in this together and how the extremely well off can defend against a slight increase will make them look greedie Kiss

Brachina

http://m.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/latest-ndp-demand-for-ontario...

So far so good. I'm starting to get the impression Dalton's going to crack and give in.

janfromthebruce

sure hope so Brachina

Howard

The Liberals seriously have to toss us a bone on this one. This is a bitter pill budget for New Democrats to swallow and I'd almost like to see an election fought over it. It is austerity without balanced budgets. There is no social progress. The Liberals resolutely refuse to raise revenues in progressive ways when it is obvious that Ontario is one of the most under-resourced governments in Canada.

Hamiltonian

I really hope Andrea's yet-to-be-released measures include thawing the wage freeze on social assistance. Their incomes must increase with inflation - they certainly aren't increasing with reality and the real costs of living... Taking a stand for the poorest of poor is core to NDP principles - we cannot afford to abandon this principle.

I would like to see Andrea and the NDP return to the negotiating table and suggest a 1% increase on the 2% mining tax. That would give us $100 million - enough to cover the $90 million cut to welfare.

Not to mention why is nothing being said about only $200 million being collected on $9 billion of resource extraction - we're giving our diamonds away folks! BC collects 13% tax and Sask 15%. Ontario needs to charge a fair amount before we run up a $16 billion dollar deficit!    Oh wait...

Gaian

Doctor Manderly wrote:

ahorwath-co@ndp.on.ca

Write to the Ontario NDP if want them to oppose the budget....

 

 

"And who," as the cheshire cat said to Alice,"are you?" :)

Doug

Doctor Manderly wrote:

I say election too!   Forget this...it  willl destroy Ontario for a generation

 

I take it there's a big donation to the Ontario NDP to go with that? Elections cost money.

Gaian

You jest, Doug. :)

Freedom 55

Yeah. The only people worth listening to are those with money.

Michelle

Yeah - people on social assistance aren't allowed to have political opinions because they can't donate to the NDP, right?

Life, the unive...

No one, not one person has said such a thing, but over and over you drag out your strawman and then set him ablaze.  Elections cost money, so if you are calling for an election, because that is what voting the budget down means, but aren't prepared to either donate to a campaign, or if you can't manage that financially volunteer your time then your calls are worse than meaningless.  If you can do both fantastic.  If you are not pledging to do either your calls for an election are little better than throwing a tire into oncoming traffic.

Freedom 55

That seems to be a popular sentiment 'round here, Michelle. Surprising and sad for a progressive message board.

Life, the unive...

Oh look another-

 

r

Doug

Michelle wrote:

Yeah - people on social assistance aren't allowed to have political opinions because they can't donate to the NDP, right?

 

Most people aren't on social assistance and could throw some dollars toward the party if they really wanted to. Calling for an election without considering likely results or the ability to run a campaign is dumb.

Aristotleded24

NorthReport wrote:
Definitely a step in the right direction by Horwath.

Ball is now in McGuinty's court - does he want an election or not?

 

NDP wants new tax for income over $500,000; HST off home heating

 

">http://www.thespec.com/news/ontario/article/698498--ndp-wants-new-tax-fo...

It would be nice if Greg Sellinger took that same approach here in Manitoba, as we're grappling with a higher than projected deficit partially brought on by flooding expenses. They're talking about protecting services, but no matter how much they spin, it sounds like austerity is coming to Manitoba.

Andrea Horwath for Manitoba Premier.

Doctor Manderly

Economists are saying passing those cuts will mean 20 per cent unemployment in Ontario...

If the NDP passes it, and they would wear it next election...

 

 

Gaian

"Economist are saying." somewhere....

Assuming pain-in-the-ass, robo-troll-like-communication.

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

..i've posted this in neoliberal rampage as well.

New poll shows a path out of Ontario budget impasse

Ontario government and NDP negotiators looking for a way out of their budget impasse should pay attention to results of a new poll conducted by Angus Reid Public Opinion on behalf of the Canadian Union of Public Employees (CUPE) Ontario, which shows voters would rather increase taxes on corporations and the wealthy than have public service reductions and cutbacks.

“This poll is encouraging for anyone worried about the budget, because it shows voters want the government to boost revenue with targeted tax measures for corporations and the most wealthy, so they can avoid any cuts to services and jobs,” said CUPE Ontario Secretary-Treasurer Candace Rennick, commenting on the poll.

“If this budget is not changed,” Rennick says, “we will see hospital bed closures and staff cuts, school closures and layoffs, and the closing of childcare centres in many communities. This poll confirms there is real support by voters for alternate ways to balance the budget.”

The poll, conducted by Angus-Reid Public Opinion for CUPE Ontario, surveyed 1,500 Ontarian adults online between April 2-3, 2012. The margin of error was +/- 2.5% 19 times out of 20. CUPE Ontario represents more than 230,000 workers in school boards, health care, municipalities, social services and universities.

Selected poll results:

  • Which is a preferred budget trade off? Raise the tax rate on corporations or impose budget cuts on school boards that could result in closures?
    61% raise tax on corporations/19% impose budget cuts on school boards
  • Which is a preferred budget trade off? Raise taxes on Corporations or keep hospital budgets to a zero% increase which could lead to bed closures and staff cuts?
    67% raise taxes on corporations/16% keep hospital budgets to zero increase
  • Would you support a new tax on earners over $250,000 if it allowed the government to provide a cost-of-living increase to those on social assistance?
    Yes: 76%         No: 16%           Don’t Know: 7%
  • Would you support reinstating the capital tax on banks and insurance companies if it allowed the government to avoid cuts to public services and jobs?
    Yes: 61%         No: 21%           Don’t Know: 17%

http://cupe.ca/government/poll-path-ontario-budget-impasse

Doctor Manderly

I say think  big....if the NDP proposes a HUGE jobs budget.... and sells it well...how can the Libs say no?  

 

Ontario has Great Depression level joblessness already....minor concessions are  is like rearranging deck chairs on the Titantic...

 

The ship would still be sinking...

Gaian

epaulo: "Would you support a new tax on earners over $250,000 if it allowed the government to provide a cost-of-living increase to those on social assistance?
Yes: 76% No: 16% Don’t Know: 7%"

This is the area that I had hoped Andrea would focus on, rather than HST on fuel bills.

Gaian

Gaian wrote:

epaulo: "Would you support a new tax on earners over $250,000 if it allowed the government to provide a cost-of-living increase to those on social assistance?
Yes: 76% No: 16% Don’t Know: 7%"

This is the areaq that I had hoped Andrea would focus on.

And why would she have put the tax increase income level at $500,000? Would $250,000 anger too many New Democrat supporters? Just a question.

Michelle

Life, the universe, everything wrote:

No one, not one person has said such a thing, but over and over you drag out your strawman and then set him ablaze.  Elections cost money, so if you are calling for an election, because that is what voting the budget down means, but aren't prepared to either donate to a campaign, or if you can't manage that financially volunteer your time then your calls are worse than meaningless.  If you can do both fantastic.  If you are not pledging to do either your calls for an election are little better than throwing a tire into oncoming traffic.

Yes, I can afford it.  And I have already said in two other threads, and in my response to the NDP's poll (which I also posted in one of these threads), that if they actually managed to stand on principle for a change and vote this budget down in order to stand up for people on social assistance and public sector workers, not only would I donate money and volunteer time to the campaign, I'd probably also take out a membership card.

Doctor Manderly

Me too....If the NDP votes down this job killing mean budget ....I will work super hard on whatever is needed...and donate heavily....

Look at the polls....Ontarians hate the budget....The NDP can stand up and be save our province....Michelle...have you written to Andrea and or Dalton yet ?

If not click below for contact info

 

http://rabble.ca/babble/ontario/email-andrea-dalton-now-save-ontario

janfromthebruce

I for one can't afford another election and would think the money better spent on those we say we care about - people on SA, restricted incomes, disability, childcare, schools and so on. I'd rather those millions go there rather than on ads, signs, and so on. That said, I hope McGuinty "sees the writing on the wall" and taxes above 250,000.00 earners, and re-invests the savings into those other areas.

 

Incidently schools close when there is declining enrolment and doesn't effect staff since their numbers are dependent on the total number of students, although EAs and support staff would be effected. Remember, about 90% of the education budget is in staffing costs.

Brachina

So much melodrama, truth is and this pains and enrages me to say this, but Dalton is probably to the left in some areas of Dexter and Seliger which makes Andrea even more left wing still. This isn't a destroying Ontario for a generation budget, is a lousy budget, but Andrea can improve it , but it still won't be great, but lets not not go over bore with hyperbole, its doesn't contain massive layoffs.

Gaian

The polls suggest that Mainstreet isn't up to altruism at the moment.

Howard

I'm looking for Andrea to improve the budget (a lousy one) and failing that, to vote against it.

So far, I feel like Andrea has offered several constructive suggestions and I would like to see some of them implemented. Otherwise, let the writ drop.

wage zombie

Gaian wrote:
The polls suggest that Mainstreet isn't up to altruism at the moment.

The only polls quoted in this thread completely contradict what you're saying.

Doctor Manderly

Brachina...if economic times were good you"d be right.... they are not...

 

The cause of the deficit is massive unemployment in Ontario...

 

And if the NDP  passes a severe cuts budget when Ontario needs them to stand tall ...and protect the next generation....

 

It will hurt them come election time...

 

We need Job Creation in Ontario on an unprecedented mass scale...Not massive job killing cuts!

 

The future of our province it at stake!

 

 

 

 

 

 

*** the Public Opinion research I have seen on this says that average folks do not want it either...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

???Hopefully this impact would not spill off to the Federal level the way the Bob Rae thing did??? 

 

Invite you folks to consider emailing Dalton  and Andrea on the subject...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Doug

Gaian wrote:
The polls suggest that Mainstreet isn't up to altruism at the moment.

 

That really depends. People aren't for freezing social assistance but they are for freezing public sector wages. They are for higher taxes on the wealthy...unless it reduces the number of jobs available. I don't think the general public are really firmly in anyone's court at the moment.

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

Gaian wrote:
The polls suggest that Mainstreet isn't up to altruism at the moment.

For the vast majority of Ontario voters, defeating the austerity agenda has nothing to do with "altruism". Good old fashioned self-interest will suffice very nicely.

Doctor Manderly

M. Spector wrote:

Gaian wrote:
The polls suggest that Mainstreet isn't up to altruism at the moment.

For the vast majority of Ontario voters, defeating the austerity agenda has nothing to do with "altruism". Good old fashioned self-interest will suffice very nicely.

Self interest for the Ontario NDP if they want to get re elected....

...And self interest for voters since we want a future for this province!

Freedom 55

[url=http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/story/2012/04/10/toronto-ndp-budge... NDP lists final budget demands[/url]

 

So Andrea plays her hand, and...

Quote:
she wants a $250 million job creation tax credit.

Horwath also wants the Liberals to keep Ontario Northland in public hands and help sectors affected by the budget like horse racing and tourism.

 

Unfreeze social assistance? Nah, fuck 'em.

Stop cuts to the public service? Meh, why bother?

 

Rot in peace, ONDP.

Howard

The Liberals need 1 non-Liberal vote to pass the budget right?

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

Freedom 55 wrote:

Unfreeze social assistance? Nah, fuck 'em.

Stop cuts to the public service? Meh, why bother?

Rot in peace, ONDP.

Yeah, what the fuck? They want to give $250 million to capitalists to "create jobs" (euphemism for finding new and innovative ways to appropriate surplus value from the labour of others)?

McGuilty has already said he's not going to raise taxes or spend an additional penny. Horwath has already said she doesn't want an election. Unless they change their positions, the only possible outcome is that the NDP caucus will find a way to let the budget pass while appearing to oppose it (e.g. by some NDP members getting a case of "budget flu" or by not having a whipped vote so that a couple of members can vote for - and ensure passage of - the Neo-Diperal austerity program).

Fidel

I tend to think the government wielding major-minority power will wear their own record in power. Voters won't remember which MPPs voted for the budget when unemployment sky rockets and debt soars higher off the graph. Pinocchio's face will be there on the big dart board come election time when he has to explain himself to the electorate. Horwath can simply say that the McGuinty threatened to take Ontario hostage for another expensive election six months after the last one unless things went their way on the budget. Horwath can emphasize that our dysfunctional electoral system is still broken, and that's just the way the Liberals and Tories prefer things to be in old Ontario.

Michelle

Appalling.

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

Fidel wrote:

Horwath can simply say that the McGuinty threatened to take Ontario hostage for another expensive election six months after the last one unless things went their way on the budget.

McGuilty threatened nothing of the sort. He presented a budget, as he was legally required to do, and if the opizishin voted it down, there would be an election. It's the opizishin, not the government, that threatens an election (in this case, specifically the Conservatives and not the NDP).

Besides which, it's pretty pathetic to say to millions of voters "We caved to the Liberal austerity agenda and thereby cost you hundreds of dollars each in order to save you [but in reality ourselves] from the horror of having an opportunity to vote on your own fate. And just think of all the money we saved the Liberal government by making sure you didn't get that opportunity!"

The amount saved by not having an election on the austerity issue, by the way, is about $92 million.

That's about 7/100ths of a percent of the McGuilty budget.

It's also far less than half as much as the NDP wants the government to give away to employers as an incentive to "create jobs".

Funny how there's always money for corporate giveaways but none for allowing people a say in how they are to be governed!

Doctor Manderly

Pass it on...The NDP has the balance....unless you act now, they are going to pass a ""Slash and Burn" Mike Harris budget....

Economists predict massive unemployment if the NDP lets these cuts go through...

If we all write to Dalton & Andrea .......we can save Ontario...tell all your friends!!!

e-mail Dalton now at:

dmcguinty.mpp.co@liberal.ola.org

e-mail Andrea now at :

ahorwath-co@ndp.on.ca

 

RevolutionPlease RevolutionPlease's picture

Meh, it's not much but I think Andrea's request for the measly 1% for only ODSP recipients, I understand, is still there.

Wow, this is where we are, eh? I was heartened by the poll that shows most would accept more taxes. Landlords alone were granted a 3% increase, how are people supposed to survive? The inflation on food?

Ya, I know altruism ain't that cool but we can be the pushers of a trend.

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

Politics has nothing to do with altruism. Every party and every candidate aims to appeal to the perceived self interest of the voters. No candidate asks for your vote because it will result in a benefit to someone other than yourself.

We don't need to promote political altruism. If only voters would truly vote in their own best interests, we would have far better governments than we ever have had before.

Doctor Manderly

This is not altruism...  this is our mutual survival....The NDP if they stand up for Ontarians can gain from this....

Aristotleded24

So could someone please explain to me how Horwath is complicit in Ontario passing an austerity budget? Near as far as I can tell, she's using the leverage she has in the minority Provincial Parliament to try and gain concessions in the budget that will benefit Ontarians. Kind of what Jack Layton did in 2005. The NDP will either be able to point to specific improvements or have clear evidence that McGuinty has no intention of governing for the best interest of Ontario. Either way, win-win for the NDP, and helps to break the cynicism that politicians are always "bickering." Will any budget that passes be perfect? No, but Horwath may still be able to wring worthwhile concessions.

Heck, Horwath even mentioning taxing high-income earners in Ontario whereas the NDP in Manitoba won't even touch that issue makes me jealous of the Ontario NDP.

Doctor Manderly

She could vote against the measure ...she has the balance of  power...  But that would trigger an an election...

 

Have you had a chance to email either Dalton or Andrea with you views on the budget

 

Agree she is caugnt between a rock and the hard place...Unfortunately so is Ontario!!

 

 

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