Ontario By-elections

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onlinediscountanvils

Stockholm wrote:
The really big news in that poll is that the Liberals are running third in london West and it looks like their decisions to run the former OSSTF Pres. Ken Coran has totally backfired.

Don't they realize that the attack on teachers mightn't have even happended, if on Coran had already been in cabinet as a Liberal?

Ken Lewenza wrote:
Do I think a Ken Coran could’ve influenced Dalton McGuinty, who was a key driver on this education reform? I think so.

[url=http://metronews.ca/news/london/727199/teacher-impasse-could-have-been-a... impasse could have been avoided with Coran in London seat: CAW leader[/url]

LOL! What a fucking joke.

infracaninophile infracaninophile's picture

I don't get it, but the teachers' unions are STILL supporting the liberals:

http://educationactiontoronto.com/home/building-on-the-bill-115-struggle-by-nigel-barriffe-and-maya-bhullar

Geoff

I don't agree that all teachers unions are lining up behind the Liberals. I'd bet that ETFO is much less enthusiastic about Wynne and company than OECTA, which caved immediately, along with the smaller unions, and OSSTF, which had the misfortune of being led by a man who obviously had "Liberal ambitions".  ETFO, however, stuck to its guns, and won't soon forget who "done them wrong".

adma

Giambrone in Guildwood?

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2013/07/06/adam_giambrone_exmayoral_candidate_to_run_for_ndp_in_byelection.html

Yeah, he might be a familiar name; but somehow, the optics of such a parachute don't fit someone of Giambrone's calibre...

ctrl190

It is definitely an odd timing and riding for Giambrone. I always knew a political comeback was in the cards, but not in Scarborough, and not at the provincial level. Especially strange considering the likely federal vacancy in Trinity-Spadina which would seem more attractive for a candidate of his profile. 

Brian Glennie

As supporter of the ONDP I consider it an embarassment to have Giambrone engaged with the Party in any capacity. We've got enough to overcome without having to drag this guy's sordid baggage around with us. Why would anyone want to put Andrea in a position where she'd have to speak to the way this guy conducted himself?

Krago

In Etobicoke-Lakeshore the NDP have nominated Pak-Cheong Choo as their candidate. He was the NDP candidate in Markham-Unionville in 2011, and formerly a Public School Trustee with the Etobicoke Board of Education (1994-97). He is also a Governor the University of Toronto.

http://www.elndp.com/1/post/2013/07/pc-choo-selected-to-represent-etobic...

Also, Ottawa Public School Board Vice-Chair, Bronwyn Funiciello, won the NDP nomination in Ottawa South.

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/touch/story.html?id=8625644

Stockholm

Brian Glennie wrote:

As supporter of the ONDP I consider it an embarassment to have Giambrone engaged with the Party in any capacity. We've got enough to overcome without having to drag this guy's sordid baggage around with us. Why would anyone want to put Andrea in a position where she'd have to speak to the way this guy conducted himself?

For God's sake, what kind of prude are you??? Adam Giambrone had sex with someone. Big fucking deal!! Since when is it a scandal for a person to have sex? are you some religious right evangelical who thinks that "sinners" who have sex outside marriage will burn in hell for eternity? I have news for you - most people have sex lives and its no business of ours. Whatever Giambrone did sexually is between him and his then fiance. Since she is now his wife obviously she either forgave him or she didn't mind in the first place. Maybe they have an open relation - if so all the more power to them.

I think that crazy vendetta againt Adam Giambrone for having sex with another consenting adult was one of the most absurd episodes in recent Toronto political history.

Aristotleded24

onlinediscountanvils wrote:
Ken Lewenza wrote:
Do I think a Ken Coran could’ve influenced Dalton McGuinty, who was a key driver on this education reform? I think so.

[url=http://metronews.ca/news/london/727199/teacher-impasse-could-have-been-a... impasse could have been avoided with Coran in London seat: CAW leader[/url]

LOL! What a fucking joke.

So does that mean that if he had run federally under the Conservative banner that he would have Harper's ear on matters of anti-union issues? By that logic, why not run for the Ontario PCs, that way if Hudak ever gets elected then he can stop Hudak from busting the unions?

Brian Glennie

Stockholm wrote:

Brian Glennie wrote:

As supporter of the ONDP I consider it an embarassment to have Giambrone engaged with the Party in any capacity. We've got enough to overcome without having to drag this guy's sordid baggage around with us. Why would anyone want to put Andrea in a position where she'd have to speak to the way this guy conducted himself?

For God's sake, what kind of prude are you??? Adam Giambrone had sex with someone. Big fucking deal!! Since when is it a scandal for a person to have sex? are you some religious right evangelical who thinks that "sinners" who have sex outside marriage will burn in hell for eternity? I have news for you - most people have sex lives and its no business of ours. Whatever Giambrone did sexually is between him and his then fiance. Since she is now his wife obviously she either forgave him or she didn't mind in the first place. Maybe they have an open relation - if so all the more power to them.

I think that crazy vendetta againt Adam Giambrone for having sex with another consenting adult was one of the most absurd episodes in recent Toronto political history.

LOL... You read an opinon that doesn't directly correspond with your own so you respond with a shrill, personal attack on the writer who voiced it. It's just so darn predicatable.

What has rendered Giambrone unfit to hold public office in the eyes of an awful lot of people isn't so much what he did as where he chose to do it. It represented a textbook career killing mis-step and I think it's really foolish for the ONDP to be associated with a politician who could so blatantly violate the public trust.

Skinny Dipper

As a teacher and ETFO member, I hope that Ken Coran loses in the by-election in London West.  He betrayed his fellow teachers when he attempted to negotiate a weak contract.  I think he knew last year that he might run for the Liberals provincially.  His knowledge affected the negotiations with the government and the actions not taken by his union.

While Ken Lewenza may assume that if Ken Coran had been in the Liberal cabinet, we wouldn't have had the same problems that we had in the past year.  Let us remember that another former OSSTF president, Earl Manners, became the human resources director in the Trillium-Lakelands District School Board which went to the Ontario Labour Relations Board to get a ruling that ETFO's instruction to continue the pause on extra-curricular activities was in violation of the Education Act.  If Ken Coran gets elected, I think he will switch his own opinions about labour rights very quickly.

Why did teachers fight this time?  It's because if this Liberal government could get away with taking the rights of teachers, the next time this or another government will do the same.

As a teacher, I am continuing my pause on extra-curricular activities, field trips, and attending staff meetings until my fellow teachers approve a freely negotiated contract.  The current memorandum of understanding agreed between my union and government was not freely negotiated.  I will remain on pause until September 2014 at the earliest.

Skinny Dipper

infracaninophile wrote:

I don't get it, but the teachers' unions are STILL supporting the liberals:

http://educationactiontoronto.com/home/building-on-the-bill-115-struggle-by-nigel-barriffe-and-maya-bhullar

Unfortunately for teacher, Andrea Horwath and the Ontario NDP were silent on teachers' labour rights.  Yes, the NDP did oppose Bill 115 in the legislature.  It was a no-risk vote as the Conservatives decided to support McGuinty and his Liberals.  However, after the vote, the Ontario NDP purposely remained silent.

Andrea Horwath may likely appear as a guest speaker at the Elementary Teachers' Federation of Ontario annual general meeting this August.  She may sing her praises for teachers.  However, she failed to support the teachers after Bill 115 was passed.  If the teachers cannot depend on her full support for teachers during difficult times, how can the teachers depend on her support if she wants the NDP to form the next government?  My fellow teachers and I do not want Andrea Horwath just to appear at special events for teachers.  We want her support outside of those special events.  This, we did not get from her or the NDP after Bill 115 was passed.  She purposely chose to remain silent.  Her lack-of-actions affects me on how I will support the NDP.  In the by-elections, I will not be campaigning for the local NDP candidates.  In the next provincial election, I will not likely be campaigning for the NDP.  I will also not be donating to the party.

Stockholm

Brian Glennie wrote:

Stockholm wrote:

Brian Glennie wrote:

As supporter of the ONDP I consider it an embarassment to have Giambrone engaged with the Party in any capacity. We've got enough to overcome without having to drag this guy's sordid baggage around with us. Why would anyone want to put Andrea in a position where she'd have to speak to the way this guy conducted himself?

For God's sake, what kind of prude are you??? Adam Giambrone had sex with someone. Big fucking deal!! Since when is it a scandal for a person to have sex? are you some religious right evangelical who thinks that "sinners" who have sex outside marriage will burn in hell for eternity? I have news for you - most people have sex lives and its no business of ours. Whatever Giambrone did sexually is between him and his then fiance. Since she is now his wife obviously she either forgave him or she didn't mind in the first place. Maybe they have an open relation - if so all the more power to them.

I think that crazy vendetta againt Adam Giambrone for having sex with another consenting adult was one of the most absurd episodes in recent Toronto political history.

LOL... You read an opinon that doesn't directly correspond with your own so you respond with a shrill, personal attack on the writer who voiced it. It's just so darn predicatable.

What has rendered Giambrone unfit to hold public office in the eyes of an awful lot of people isn't so much what he did as where he chose to do it. It represented a textbook career killing mis-step and I think it's really foolish for the ONDP to be associated with a politician who could so blatantly violate the public trust.

So I gather you think anyone who has ever had sex outside of marriage or been non-monogamous should be disqualified for life from ever running for public office. I guess we will have to agree to disagree on that. I was against the impeachment of Bill Clinton over his affair with Monica Lewinsky and as much as I hate his politics, I would not have Vic Toews expelled from the house of Ommins just because he committed adultery. perhaps you think Javk Layton should have resigned as NDP leader the day before the 2011 federal election when it was revealed he had once been a found in in a massage parlor?

Ps: remember Anthony Weiner the Democratic congressman from NYC? He resigned in disgrace just a year ago after posting pictures of his penis on twitter and having an affair while his wife was pregnant. He is now leading the polls and is the odds on favourite to succeed Michael Bloomberg as mayor of New York.

infracaninophile infracaninophile's picture

Thanks for this elaboration, SD. I'm not a teacher and not as well-informed on the details as you are. However, I was (as they say) "shocked and appalled" by the flagrant disregard for collective bargaining and workers' rights -- something that should concern us all, and especially the NDP. If they are not the allies of the workers, who is? I was not aware that AH had shown no support for the teachers post-vote, that is very worrying. Does that suggest that the NDP is prepared to throw other worker groups under the bus if needed for political popularity (teachers are always a focus of popular bashing, I think because most people can remember a teacher they hated. Firefighters and police have even better salary, pension and benefits and never attract the same opprobrium)?

I too want Ken Coran to lose in his election bid -- that type of quisling behaviour should not be rewarded. OTOH what to do in my own riding, which has a fairly solid extreme right wing voter base, is more difficult. The NDP cannot win here, but should I vote for them anyway? Support the Libs to keep the Tories out? In every election I make a decision based on the local issues at the time but it is problematic.

Stockholm

What exactly would constitute "support" for the teachers beyond opposing and voting against Bill 115? We're you expecting the entire NDP caucus to join a teachers picket line and declare that if elected the NDP will not even have to negotiate with the teachers unions...they will simply give them 100% of what they ask for?

Geoff

Had the NDP come out strongly against the bill based on the principle of protecting workers' rights, instead of meekly stating that they were waiting to for the outcome of a court challenge, teachers would have felt as if the NDP had their backs.  Unfortunately, the memory of Bob Rae linger on in the minds of some public sector workers (not mine, to be clear), and the lack of a clear message from the party about the importance of collective bargaining rights merely rekindles some of the resentment from years gone by.

I hope the campaign against Coran in London highlights his treachery.  What knowledge has he shared about OSSTF with the Liberals that might compromise the interests of his former colleagues?  What kind of deal might have been cut for him to prove his allegiance to the party?  Inquiring minds want to know.

Wilf Day

Krago wrote:
In Etobicoke-Lakeshore the NDP have nominated Pak-Cheong Choo as their candidate. He was the NDP candidate in Markham-Unionville in 2011, and formerly a Public School Trustee with the Etobicoke Board of Education (1994-97). He is also a Governor the University of Toronto. http://www.elndp.com/1/post/2013/07/pc-choo-selected-to-represent-etobic...

If the PCs run strongly in Lakeshore, could a three-way race give a victory there to the NDP?

Skinny Dipper

Stockholm wrote:
What exactly would constitute "support" for the teachers beyond opposing and voting against Bill 115? We're you expecting the entire NDP caucus to join a teachers picket line and declare that if elected the NDP will not even have to negotiate with the teachers unions...they will simply give them 100% of what they ask for?

A few years ago, Andrea Horwath did speak at ETFO's annual general meeting.  She did state that an NDP government would ensure that there would be fair negotiations with the teachers.  As a teacher, I don't expect any government to give me everything that I want.  I wouldn't expect an NDP government to give me and my fellow teachers everything.  I just want a future NDP government to respect the collective bargaining process between the teachers' unions and our employers--the school boards.

The frustruation among my fellow teachers with Andrea Horwath and the Ontario NDP is that she and the party seemed to pay lip-service to collective bargaining rights.  In a speech that Ms. Horwath made a few months ago in the legislature about education, she didn't even use the word "teacher" once.

My fellow teachers and I did not expect Andrea Horwath to support us unconditionally.  We did expect that she and her party would have placed a little more emphasis on supporting the collective bargaining rights of teachers after the Liberals and Conservatives passed Bill 115 which suspended the free collective bargaining rights of teachers.  Andrea Horwath and the Ontario NDP chose to remain silent.

Skinny Dipper

Geoff wrote:

Had the NDP come out strongly against the bill based on the principle of protecting workers' rights, instead of meekly stating that they were waiting to for the outcome of a court challenge, teachers would have felt as if the NDP had their backs.  Unfortunately, the memory of Bob Rae linger on in the minds of some public sector workers (not mine, to be clear), and the lack of a clear message from the party about the importance of collective bargaining rights merely rekindles some of the resentment from years gone by.

Thanks, Geoff.

The Ontario NDP was meek in its support for teachers' collective bargaining rights.  I don't know how Andrea Horwath and the Ontario NDP can expect teachers to support the NDP strongly in the by-elections and eventually in a provincial election when the party's support for teachers was meek (and weak).  As for me, I won't be helping any local by-elections.  I won't be donating any money to the NDP because of the party's weak support for teachers' collective bargaining rights.

Stockholm

The NDP voted against Bill 115 end of story. What I find amusing is how the Liberals will literally screw teachers with a total union bashing agenda - and then most teachers will quickly forgive and forget and vote for them anyways. With the NDP its not enough to oppose the Liberals union-bashing policies - the NDP has to be 100% unswervingly zealous in its defence of teachers...

Let's face it - the NDP will always be held to an impossibly high standard, while the Liberals viciously anti-teacher policies will be quickly forgiven. We have seen this movies before. People are even trying to juxtapose what McGuinty did within the past year to what the NDP did under Liberal Rae 20 years ago.

Brian Glennie

Stockholm wrote:
Brian Glennie wrote:

Stockholm wrote:

Brian Glennie wrote:

As supporter of the ONDP I consider it an embarassment to have Giambrone engaged with the Party in any capacity. We've got enough to overcome without having to drag this guy's sordid baggage around with us. Why would anyone want to put Andrea in a position where she'd have to speak to the way this guy conducted himself?

For God's sake, what kind of prude are you??? Adam Giambrone had sex with someone. Big fucking deal!! Since when is it a scandal for a person to have sex? are you some religious right evangelical who thinks that "sinners" who have sex outside marriage will burn in hell for eternity? I have news for you - most people have sex lives and its no business of ours. Whatever Giambrone did sexually is between him and his then fiance. Since she is now his wife obviously she either forgave him or she didn't mind in the first place. Maybe they have an open relation - if so all the more power to them.

I think that crazy vendetta againt Adam Giambrone for having sex with another consenting adult was one of the most absurd episodes in recent Toronto political history.

LOL... You read an opinon that doesn't directly correspond with your own so you respond with a shrill, personal attack on the writer who voiced it. It's just so darn predicatable.

What has rendered Giambrone unfit to hold public office in the eyes of an awful lot of people isn't so much what he did as where he chose to do it. It represented a textbook career killing mis-step and I think it's really foolish for the ONDP to be associated with a politician who could so blatantly violate the public trust.

So I gather you think anyone who has ever had sex outside of marriage or been non-monogamous should be disqualified for life from ever running for public office. I guess we will have to agree to disagree on that. I was against the impeachment of Bill Clinton over his affair with Monica Lewinsky and as much as I hate his politics, I would not have Vic Toews expelled from the house of Ommins just because he committed adultery. perhaps you think Javk Layton should have resigned as NDP leader the day before the 2011 federal election when it was revealed he had once been a found in in a massage parlor? Ps: remember Anthony Weiner the Democratic congressman from NYC? He resigned in disgrace just a year ago after posting pictures of his penis on twitter and having an affair while his wife was pregnant. He is now leading the polls and is the odds on favourite to succeed Michael Bloomberg as mayor of New York.

1. Let’s compare apples to apples. Clinton and Toews represent well-funded parties which can almost always rely on a substantial percentage of voter support no matter what. The US Democrats and the CPC can similarly bank on a level of cooperation from the media that simply does not exist for the ONDP. We’re just on a whole different level when it comes to withstanding the fallout from a scandal.

2. Jack was the victim of a really underhanded smear job and, unlike Giambrone, he had absolutely nothing to hang his head about. I don’t see how you can even begin to equate these two men but your bringing up Layton’s experience certainly does foreshadow the absolute field day our opponents will have with us if we’re foolish enough to run Adam Giambrone as a candidate.

3. Anthony Weiner has about as strong a chance of becoming the next Mayor of New York as I do.

Stockholm

Brian Glennie wrote:

3. Anthony Weiner has about as strong a chance of becoming the next Mayor of New York as I do.

Polls say he has vaulted into the lead. Also that Republican Governor of South carolina who resigned in disgrace after leaving his wife and using state money to fly to Buenos Aires to see his mistress - just made a political comeback an got elected to congress. If anything the evidence suggests that being involved in a sex scandal tends to INCREASE support for politicians.

I for one believe in free love. I think SEX IS GOOD and the more of it people have - the better. I think we should embrace candidates with active sex lives and celebrate them - rather than expecting all our politicians to be a bunch of priggish Stepford Wives

Catchfire Catchfire's picture

Stockholm, please stop insulting other babblers who think Giambrone is a foolish choice for a candidate. Stop calling them priggish, prudish, religious, crazy, vendettaed or otherwise belittled. Not only is it childish, it's fairly at odds with what posters in this thread are actually saying.

Stockholm

Its not clear what anyone is saying about Giambrone - other than that he should be barred from seeking office for the rest of his life because the Toronto Star said he had sex with someone other than his then fiance. That was the sum total of the "scandal". Its rather amusing that we now have a mayor who is apparently a crack addict who cavorts with drug dealers and yet three years ago - we considered it a scandal that Adam Giambrone had sex! What were we thinking??

If we start disqualifying people from public life because they had extra-marital sex - where does it all end?

adma

Sometimes, it's not in the "having sex", it's in the public handling thereof  (And besides, it may be that AG's randy past *isn't* be the most contentious aspect of his present candidacy...)

Stockholm

What do you think is the right way to "handle" having journalists ask you point blank questions about who you slept with?

infracaninophile infracaninophile's picture

Stockholm wrote:

If we start disqualifying people from public life because they had extra-marital sex - where does it all end?

Well, at least we'd be rid of that *bleep* Vic Toews.Wink

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Stockholm wrote:

I was against the impeachment of Bill Clinton over his affair with Monica Lewinsky and as much as I hate his politics,

Sexual harassment is obviously a minor issue for you if you think a President using an intern as a sexual plaything is all right. It wasn't his politics it was his misuse of his position of power that was unacceptable.

I have no idea about the Adam story but there are definitely circumstances around sex that can led me to write off someone as a candidate I would vote for.  Screwing at work at minimum displays a total disregard for whoever is paying your wages and poor judgement. It is the connection to the workplace that is problematic and if you add a position of power into the equation it is not alright.

Aristotleded24

infracaninophile wrote:
Stockholm wrote:

If we start disqualifying people from public life because they had extra-marital sex - where does it all end?

Well, at least we'd be rid of that *bleep* Vic Toews.Wink

[url=http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/local/Toews-announces-resignation-21460... you should mention that...[/url]

Quote:
Provencher MP Vic Toews is to resign as MP effective Tuesday, according to a statement released by Toews today.

The statement says Public Safety Minister Toews is to pursue interests in the private sector.

Stockholm

I didn't say I approved of Clinton's involvement. I said i was against his impeachment over it.

In the case of Giambrone, he had an affair with consenting adults who did not work for him...last time i checked in Canada it was still legal for consenting adults to have sex with one another - regardless of their marital status. I hope that continues to be the case.

Who cares what he did in his office? I've never heard anyone suggest Giambrone was less than hradworking or worked less than 40 hours a week (Mayor Ford is another story) - if he wants to have sex in his office - all the more power to him. Does it cost me anything that he sleeps with someone there rather than in a hotel room? NO! so what's it to me and why is it any of my business?

What if a married city councillor and his wife decided to have a spontaneous impromptu legover while they were both in his office - after hours? I suppose if it came out the tabloid press might find it a bit titillating - but otherwise we would probably all think it was cute that this married couple was still so "hot" for each other.

PS: in other news Elliot Spitzer is also making a political comeback and is favoured to be elected Comptroller of the State of New York. Good. 

terrytowel

Sarah McQuarrie (Adam Giambrone wife) doesn't have a problem with his cheating, why should anyone else care?

Catchfire Catchfire's picture

It's my party and I'll cry if I want to -- babble legend audra williams

Adam Giambrone was the co-chair of the Candidate Selection Committee for the Ontario NDP. In this capacity, he encouraged a young woman name Amarjeet Kaur Chhabra to run for the nomination. She is an amazing candidate, and decided to go for it. Chhabra won “Toronto Idol” for Scarborough, and ran for City Council for Ward 43. She is a young woman of colour, has a disability, moved to Canada in 1999, and is a labour organizer.

Giambrone, on the other hand, is like a cartoon of a Level 10 White Guy. He previously ran for Mayor but then had to quit the race after lying about sex with a 19 year old named Kristen Lucas. Read that story, folks, it speaks volumes about his character. Like, when he was caught he let his camp release a letter they claimed was from Lucas, threatening to fabricate an affair with Giambrone. Too bad they spelled her name wrong.

I don’t care who someone sleeps with but I care how they treat people, and Giambrone has displayed a pretty utilitarian approach to both young women and the truth.

The nomination meeting was set for July 7. On July 5, Giambrone resigned as the co-chair of the Candidate Selection Committee. He then called Chhabra, to let her know that he was going to run against her for the nomination. He announced to the media the day before, and then won the nomination by a very very narrow margin yesterday.

Giambrone has zero ties to Scarborough. He was, however, maybe polling about his electability in Scarborough in February? Which is pretty strange, given that he has never lived there, and isn’t prepared to say he’ll move there even if he’s elected.

 

Stockholm

I notice that Audra Williams also writes:

"A really similar thing happened to (person of colour) Wali Farah, who has run for the NDP before in Ottawa-South (and gotten them their most votes ever), when (white person) Bronwyn Funiciello announced she was running for the candidacy at the last minute and won. Huh."

I wonder if she realizes that Bronwyn Funiciello is a blind woman who is an activist in the disabled community. But I guess in her "heirarchy of the oppressed" an abled bodied man of colour "trumps" a disabled woman who is not "of colour".

pookie

Stockholm wrote:

I notice that Audra Williams also writes:

"A really similar thing happened to (person of colour) Wali Farah, who has run for the NDP before in Ottawa-South (and gotten them their most votes ever), when (white person) Bronwyn Funiciello announced she was running for the candidacy at the last minute and won. Huh."

I wonder if she realizes that Bronwyn Funiciello is a blind woman who is an activist in the disabled community. But I guess in her "heirarchy of the oppressed" an abled bodied man of colour "trumps" a disabled woman who is not "of colour".

Which has exactly what to do with AG and his nomination?

Stockholm

I thought this thread was about ALL the Ontario byelections. Did someone change the rules so that we are now only allowed to comment on Adam Giambrone and the other four contests are off limits?

onlinediscountanvils

Audra Williams wrote:
I just think it is so despicable for a shiny rich downtown white dude who was the co-chair of the Candidate Selection Committee to sneak in at the last minute and beat out a local community activist. How is that not a HUGE conflict of interest? The committee is supposed to vet candidates! Did he vet HIMSELF? Gah. To see folks calling this “democracy at work” makes me want to take to my bed forever.

Nice to see Giambrone and the ONDP following the fine example set by Dick Cheney and the GOP.

adma

Yeah, the knock against Funicello seems unfair--all the more so in that unlike Giambrone, she actually *represents* the area...

Professor

Hi Folks I had to drop in here to offer my support and condolences for/to Stockholm who obviously is one of those New Democrats who has to carry the cross while being pelted by the stones from the idealistic dippers who just don’t understand how politics works. First: On Giambrone. The Liberal media is pumping the story of his sexual past which incidentally his wife seems to have overcome. This begs the question. Shouldn’t we? Note that Benzie and Cohn each have a separate article on his scandalous past as a means to try to set the agenda for the by-election going forward. This is classic message track foundation building from the dynamic duo themselves. Progressives should ignore this and move on as it only helps feed their starving beast. Also anyone who is upset that Adam won the nomination should ask themselves the question? What is democratic process and could the other guy not have managed to get a few more votes in the room (I. e more than 12 to win the friggin thing? You gotta organize man.  This is real politics and not some student union. Get those big boy pants out of the closet and put ‘em on.  Next, regarding the NDP and their supposed nonsupport of teachers during bill 155: They voted against it and devoted time in the debates to the issue. This took away from other more important issues that deserved pressing attention. They have always (with the exception of the social contract) gone to bat for labour and have stood up in their places time and time again and raised the flag so I believe their bona fides are in fact bona fide. If Skinny Dipper is a real NDP supporter and not just a Liberal operative doing some agent provocateur routine I would suggest that he/she gets over his/herself. Teachers are not the center of the universe. It is a big Province and you have to give to get so in short get over it. Please stop the whining is starting to sound like the classroom I just left behind. If you aren’t going to door knock and donate then who cares. Go read a book or write your manifesto. You too are not the center of the universe. You dig me?

felixr

Aristotleded24 wrote:

[url=http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/local/Toews-announces-resignation-21460... you should mention that...[/url]

Quote:
Provencher MP Vic Toews is to resign as MP effective Tuesday, according to a statement released by Toews today.

The statement says Public Safety Minister Toews is to pursue interests in the private sector.

Hooray!

felixr

Stockholm wrote:

Its not clear what anyone is saying about Giambrone - other than that he should be barred from seeking office for the rest of his life because the Toronto Star said he had sex with someone other than his then fiance. That was the sum total of the "scandal". Its rather amusing that we now have a mayor who is apparently a crack addict who cavorts with drug dealers and yet three years ago - we considered it a scandal that Adam Giambrone had sex! What were we thinking??

If we start disqualifying people from public life because they had extra-marital sex - where does it all end?

Except that the Toronto Star reported that he expensed to the city the taxis he used to shuttle his lovers to and from his rendezvous. So not only was he a fool, but he seems to be one that abused the taxpayer's resources for his fooleryas well.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

Stockholm wrote:

I notice that Audra Williams also writes:

"A really similar thing happened to (person of colour) Wali Farah, who has run for the NDP before in Ottawa-South (and gotten them their most votes ever), when (white person) Bronwyn Funiciello announced she was running for the candidacy at the last minute and won. Huh."

I wonder if she realizes that Bronwyn Funiciello is a blind woman who is an activist in the disabled community. But I guess in her "heirarchy of the oppressed" an abled bodied man of colour "trumps" a disabled woman who is not "of colour".

The issue with Giambrone, Stocks, is that it goes without saying that, as a middle aged white man, he can't possibly be as passionate about feminist, anti-racist, and other anti-oppression as the other candidate, the candidate he recruited and then betrayed by running against her and beating her, thus guaranteeing no riding association will EVER nominate her.  That had to be part the reason he was chosen...the argument that his whiteness and maleness will distance himself from the real pain of women and people of color, which will make him "safer" in the eyes of the obsessed about(and, in real life basically nonexistent)"moderate swing voters".

He might win that way, but can he care after changing anything that matters AFTER he wins?  Can any candidate that conveys "safety" and "reassurance" be capable of actually caring about making life different?

Giambrone was nominated as the safe, bland passion free candidate, using the same logic that lost the BCNDP an election they should have been guaranteed to win.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

Professor wrote:

Hi Folks I had to drop in here to offer my support and condolences for/to Stockholm who obviously is one of those New Democrats who has to carry the cross while being pelted by the stones from the idealistic dippers who just don’t understand how politics works. First: On Giambrone. The Liberal media is pumping the story of his sexual past which incidentally his wife seems to have overcome. This begs the question. Shouldn’t we? Note that Benzie and Cohn each have a separate article on his scandalous past as a means to try to set the agenda for the by-election going forward. This is classic message track foundation building from the dynamic duo themselves. Progressives should ignore this and move on as it only helps feed their starving beast. Also anyone who is upset that Adam won the nomination should ask themselves the question? What is democratic process and could the other guy not have managed to get a few more votes in the room (I. e more than 12 to win the friggin thing? You gotta organize man.  This is real politics and not some student union. Get those big boy pants out of the closet and put ‘em on.  Next, regarding the NDP and their supposed nonsupport of teachers during bill 155: They voted against it and devoted time in the debates to the issue. This took away from other more important issues that deserved pressing attention. They have always (with the exception of the social contract) gone to bat for labour and have stood up in their places time and time again and raised the flag so I believe their bona fides are in fact bona fide. If Skinny Dipper is a real NDP supporter and not just a Liberal operative doing some agent provocateur routine I would suggest that he/she gets over his/herself. Teachers are not the center of the universe. It is a big Province and you have to give to get so in short get over it. Please stop the whining is starting to sound like the classroom I just left behind. If you aren’t going to door knock and donate then who cares. Go read a book or write your manifesto. You too are not the center of the universe. You dig me?

Why SHOULD Giambrone ever get an NDP nomination when he's too far to the right and too bland and passionless to be worthy of one?  His decision to seek the NDP nomination against a young woman of color he encouraged to run for it the first place(something that should have made him feel obligated never to enter that nomination contest himself)is obviously based on a belief that women shouldn't be in politics, and shouldn't get NDP nominations in winnable seats...it can't be based on any progressive or positive motivation.  for

This trend could easily lead to a situation in which Andrea Horwath herself is virtually the only woman who matters in the ONDP caucus.  No female leader who tolerates a preference for white male candidates over women or POC has any right to call herself a progressive, because ONLY women and POC can truly take the lead in fighting passionately for the issues affect them...and a party that equates "electability" with not having a multicultural, gender-equality based face can't ever implement progressive policies in government.  Party caucuse dominated by straight white men simply don't do anything progressive.

edmundoconnor

Having actually been at the Scarborough—Guildwood meeting (I was simply an observer) and observed the fallout since, I thought I'd offer my observations.

Ken, I wouldn't be so sure about no riding association ever nominating Chhabra. Yes, she lost, but she did everything right: she congratulated Giambrone, and vowed to work the doors for him. She has not said a peep publicly about the ensuing controversy. She gained/re-affirmed the respect of the people in the room, and it's unlikely people have heard the last of her. If I was a member of that riding association, I'd be encouraging her to look at a federal run in Scarborough—Guildwood, with 2015 being nearer than you think. Heck, I'd put in a good word for her in my neck of the woods in Markham.

Giambrone made a series of major, major mistakes in 2010. He's publicly offered his profuse apologies for his handling of whole episode. Does that count as 'enough' contrition? I don't mean this to sound cheesy, but am a New Democrat at least partly because I have love, hope, and forgiveness in my heart. Judgement and unbending morals are the other side's bag. Not mine.

The ONDP does have a problem with racism and sexism, but it's not accurate to simply say that the ONDP is racist and sexist. Yes, the party does not accurately reflect the make-up of the province by a long stretch, but there are points of hope. Exactly 50% of caucus are women, which of course the other parties at Queen's Park can't match. Yes, Jagmeet Singh did pretty much on his own in BGM, but the fact that Neethan Shan was chosen as party president does indicate to me that the party as a whole is open to change from being a bunch of white women and men. Are there issues? Yes. Is there a degree of institutional racism and sexism? Certainly. Am I wanting to change the situation from inside the party, while dealing plenty of defeats to the PCs and Liberals? Darn straight.

One final thing: Ken, by saying, "Party caucuse dominated by straight white men simply don't do anything progressive", you're showing you don't know your history. The Saskatchewan CCF was dominated by white men, and yet they enacted government auto insurance, and healthcare, to name just two measures. I'd call that progressive. Similarly, the British Labour Party (also dominated by white men) established public health care in the UK. I'd also call that progressive.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

edmundoconnor wrote:

Having actually been at the Scarborough—Guildwood meeting (I was simply an observer) and observed the fallout since, I thought I'd offer my observations.

Ken, I wouldn't be so sure about no riding association ever nominating Chhabra. Yes, she lost, but she did everything right: she congratulated Giambrone, and vowed to work the doors for him. She has not said a peep publicly about the ensuing controversy. She gained/re-affirmed the respect of the people in the room, and it's unlikely people have heard the last of her. If I was a member of that riding association, I'd be encouraging her to look at a federal run in Scarborough—Guildwood, with 2015 being nearer than you think. Heck, I'd put in a good word for her in my neck of the woods in Markham.

Giambrone made a series of major, major mistakes in 2010. He's publicly offered his profuse apologies for his handling of whole episode. Does that count as 'enough' contrition? I don't mean this to sound cheesy, but am a New Democrat at least partly because I have love, hope, and forgiveness in my heart. Judgement and unbending morals are the other side's bag. Not mine.

The ONDP does have a problem with racism and sexism, but it's not accurate to simply say that the ONDP is racist and sexist. Yes, the party does not accurately reflect the make-up of the province by a long stretch, but there are points of hope. Exactly 50% of caucus are women, which of course the other parties at Queen's Park can't match. Yes, Jagmeet Singh did pretty much on his own in BGM, but the fact that Neethan Shan was chosen as party president does indicate to me that the party as a whole is open to change from being a bunch of white women and men. Are there issues? Yes. Is there a degree of institutional racism and sexism? Certainly. Am I wanting to change the situation from inside the party, while dealing plenty of defeats to the PCs and Liberals? Darn straight.

One final thing: Ken, by saying, "Party caucuse dominated by straight white men simply don't do anything progressive", you're showing you don't know your history. The Saskatchewan CCF was dominated by white men, and yet they enacted government auto insurance, and healthcare, to name just two measures. I'd call that progressive. Similarly, the British Labour Party (also dominated by white men) established public health care in the UK. I'd also call that progressive.

I didn't say that the ONDP was "racist and sexist"...just that something sad and reactionary happened in this nomination.  The only possible case you could make for nominating Giambrone was the belief that the ONDP couldn't win this by-election unless its candidate was a white guy.  Beyond that, there simply couldn't have been any possible reason for Giambrone to jump in at the last moment to stop Chhambra.  None at all. 

And the stupid part of this is, his poll ratings in the Toronto mayor's race prove that this guy can't EVEN claim superior electability.  If he was running a weak third place in that contest, he can't possibly be a strong candidate in this one.  How can he even pretend he could do well in this race if he did badly in a previous one?

And what could there possibly have been about Chhambra that could have justified the white men conspiring at the last minute to stop her?  Why didn't she deserve this shot?

Finally, I wasn't calling for anyone to leave the ONDP...just pointing out an outrage when I saw it.

And yes, parties dominated by white men have sometimes done progressive stuff in the past.  But white men have gone massively reactionary as a group now(I say this as a member of the badly outnumbered white male left)and there's no chance at all of changing that in our lifetimes.  Nominating guys like Giambrone can't change it, that's for damn sure.

Skinny Dipper

Professor,

I know that teachers are not the centre of the universe.  I think my fellow teachers and I do not expect Andrea Horwath and the NDP to stop everything in order to spend 100% of their time supporting the teachers.  My colleagues and I have noticed that immediately after Bill 115 was passed by the Liberals and Conservatives, the NDP went completely silent.  My friends sent them emails, letters, and phone calls to the NDP only to be given no replies.  What's the saying in politics?  It's great to be liked.  It's bad to be hated.  It's worse to be ignored.  The Liberals and Conservative hated the teachers.  Andrea Horwath and the NDP pretended to like us.  However, she and the NDP chose to ignore us once Bill 115 was passed.  They have ignored us since.  In a 10+ minute speech in the legislature on public education, Andrea Horwath mentioned all the stakeholders such as the government, trustees, board officials, students, and parents.  She didn't use the word "teacher" once.  It is troubliing when someone couldn't use the name of a major stakeholder in education.  Essentially, we teachers felt used by Andrea Horwath.

I am trying to figure out Andrea Horwath's tactics and strategies in attempting to gain support across Ontario.  Judging by some of the issues that she is promoting such as lower auto insurance rates, plus no tax on home heating and hydro, I think that the party is trying to gain support from Conservative voters.  Perhaps that is why she has ignored the teachers.  Don't offend Conservative supporters who do not care about teachers' labour rights.

Skinny Dipper

Andrea Horwath's speech on extra-curriculars (Feb 2013).  A 12 minute 47 second speech--she didn't use the word "teacher" once.  If she had mentioned teachers, I would not be making comments about her lack of active support for teachers after Bill 115 had been passed by the Liberals and Conservatives.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEmFQRCJqZI

Krago

Ken Burch wrote:
How can he even pretend he could do well in this race if he did badly in a previous one?

2006 Toronto Municipal Election

Ward 43 Scarborough East

Paul Ainslie -- 4,677 38.7%

Jim Robb -- 3,388 28.1%

Abdul Patel -- 1,738 14.4%

John Laforet -- 933 7.7%

Mujeeb Khan -- 495 4.1%

Glenn Kitchen -- 495 4.1%

Amarjeet Chhabra -- 351 2.9%

 

Brian Glennie

onlinediscountanvils wrote:

Audra Williams wrote:
I just think it is so despicable for a shiny rich downtown white dude who was the co-chair of the Candidate Selection Committee to sneak in at the last minute and beat out a local community activist. How is that not a HUGE conflict of interest? The committee is supposed to vet candidates! Did he vet HIMSELF? Gah. To see folks calling this “democracy at work” makes me want to take to my bed forever.

Nice to see Giambrone and the ONDP following the fine example set by Dick Cheney and the GOP.

I didn't find Andrea's statement to be especially reassuring:

“Time and time again the Liberals have chosen to put well-connected insiders ahead of the families that make this province work."

http://ontariondp.com/en/adam-giambrone-nominated-as-ndp-candidate-in-scarborough-guildwood

 

autoworker autoworker's picture

These by-elections are being held during the dog days of Summer, when students are NOT in school, and teachers are envied for their time off, while many working class voters are struggling to get by, and worrying about what their kids are up to, while they're at work.. If Horwath hopes to connect with these people, and actually get them out to vote for her, it's probably more prudent to move onto other issues that concern them, at the moment, and not remind them of that fact. How much, realistically, could Horwath have extracted from Wynne? It's not as though the ONDP currently has the means to fight the good fight in a general election. Besides, how many Ontario voters even know of Bill 115, let alone have the inclination to educate themselves about the issue, and discuss it outside forums such as this?

infracaninophile infracaninophile's picture

Skinny Dipper wrote:

Andrea Horwath's speech on extra-curriculars (Feb 2013).  A 12 minute 47 second speech--she didn't use the word "teacher" once.  If she had mentioned teachers, I would not be making comments about her lack of active support for teachers after Bill 115 had been passed by the Liberals and Conservatives.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEmFQRCJqZI

Wow, Skinny Dipper, you're absolutely right. Not one mention of teachers -- in fact she had to have gone out of her way to avoid mentioning them, and it's hardly as if simply including them in the list of Ontarians concerned about school issues would have been provocative or even construed as "support." it does look like a deliberate, calculated omission, for reasons I can't fathom. Far simpler, and more honest (IMO) would have been to state -- not necessarily here, but in public discourse -- "yes, teachers have good pay and benefits, as do police and emergency response personnel, that we all envy, but they also perform important jobs that we as a society need and value, and they have the right to bargain their terms of employment in a fair and equitable manner. The health and well-being of our society depend on it."

This was way before the "dog days of summer" and the by-elections. I've gotten a few calls in the last few days from NDP recruiters soliciting my $$$ and my time. I think I will bring up this issue; I think it is an important one. It's not just about teachers.

 

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