The Legault government

346 posts / 0 new
Last post
cco

kropotkin1951 wrote:

This thread started with a post about the Legault government's religious symbols law. Can someone tell me if those laws were enacted and whether or not they are in effect during this pandemic.

Yes and yes.

kropotkin1951 wrote:

I am astounded at the percentage of seniors in care in Quebec.

It's because, much like daycares, those long-term care homes are more subsidized than in any other province. CHSLDs are for those requiring more than 3 hours of medical care a day.

kropotkin1951 wrote:

My wife worked in long term care for 25 years before going to work for the HEU and we thought that the standards under the BC Liberals had become almost none existent but what is coming out of the care homes in Quebec appears to border on criminal negligence on a institutional scale. I hope that when the pandemic passes some of the executives of the companies responsible for this forcible catastrophe are charged and sent to jail.

It looks like the guy who owns the home with the worst death rates has an extensive history of criminal activity. My guess is that he will indeed be back in jail soon, and there'll be a public inquiry about how he got permission to be a government contractor.

ETA: It's also worth noting that the man and his family gave more than $10,000 legally to the PLQ, and I'm guessing a lot more under the table. That might have had something to do with his success doing business with the government despite his criminal background.

Douglas Fir Premier

cco wrote:
kropotkin1951 wrote:

This thread started with a post about the Legault government's religious symbols law. Can someone tell me if those laws were enacted and whether or not they are in effect during this pandemic.

Yes and yes.

Congratulations, Québec... you played yourself.

jerrym

On CBC's the National, Quebec Minister of Health Danielle McCann admits that the provinces long term care homes had a large shortage of workers before COVID-19, saying that "we need thousands and thousands of people, not just a few hundred." indicating that then long-term care problem was severe well before this crisis. For a former Parti Quebecois independentiste Minister and now CAQ Premier, who is extremely jealous of provincial jurisdictions, to ask Trudeau for  help from the Canadian military shows how dire the situation is. 

Legault says long-term care homes are facing a shortfall of about 2,000 staff, but that 2,000 medical specialists have offered to step in since his appeal to them Wednesday.

He's also asked the federal government to send trained military personnel to help but says it is still unclear how many people are available. The premier estimated there may be between 60 and 100 qualified people who may be sent as reinforcements.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/covid-19-quebec-april-17-1.5535556

Quebec also seems willing to call the extremely well paid specialists, even though there are "retired nurses are waiting to be called that are more suited to the work than specialsts", according to the CBC National News. Roberto Bomba from the Quebec Nurses Union said, in referring to the specialists, "They better have a knowledge base and run around and care for the residents. But under no circumstances are they to put in requests for nurses. Our nurses are doing the work. They don't have time to babysit specialists." These quotes can be seen at this url (https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/1725790275768)

I would also say that the extremely poorly paid residential care attendants don't have time to babysit specialists also. It's another example of elites preferring to use other elites even when they are not the best choice. 

jerrym

Pondering wrote:

 

In Quebec, specialists are going to be working as caregivers, for 211.00 dollars an hour.

 

 

On CBC's the National, Quebec Minister of Health Danielle McCann admits that the provinces long term care homes had a large shortage of workers before COVID-19, saying that "we need thousands and thousands of people, not just a few hundred." indicating that then long-term care problem was severe well before this crisis. For a former Parti Quebecois independentiste Minister and now CAQ Premier, who is extremely jealous of provincial jurisdictions, to ask Trudeau for  help from the Canadian military shows how dire the situation is. 

Legault says long-term care homes are facing a shortfall of about 2,000 staff, but that 2,000 medical specialists have offered to step in since his appeal to them Wednesday.

He's also asked the federal government to send trained military personnel to help but says it is still unclear how many people are available. The premier estimated there may be between 60 and 100 qualified people who may be sent as reinforcements.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/covid-19-quebec-april-17-1.5535556

Quebec also seems willing to call in the extremely well paid specialists, who although highly trained often have skills to match this situation, even though there are "retired nurses are waiting to be called that are more suited to the work than specialsts", according to the CBC National News. Roberto Bomba from the Quebec Nurses Union said, in referring to the specialists, "They better have a knowledge base and run around and care for the residents. But under no circumstances are they to put in requests for nurses. Our nurses are doing the work. They don't have time to babysit specialists." These quotes can be seen at this url (https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/1725790275768)

I would also say that the extremely poorly paid residential care attendants don't have time to babysit specialists also. It's another example of elites preferring to use other elites even when they are not the best choice. 

Pondering

They keep announcing that the extra pay for essential workers is temporary but I don't think it will be easy to take away because now essential workers know they are essential. If the unions are smart they will be prepared to organize mass walkouts the week the top ups are taken away. Grind the economy to a halt if they refuse to pay a living wage. Not a fortune. Just a living wage.

The minute they take away the money they are saying essential workers aren't that important anymore. They aren't worth a living wage. Anybody can and will do their jobs if they don't want them. Now workers know that is untrue. There is no other army of workers ready to take their jobs. Their jobs can't be done from home or outsourced. Society will just have to find a way to pay them as they find a way to pay specialists 211$ an hour.

 

kropotkin1951

In BC it is going to be very easy to organize. The government instituted the HEU terms for all care workers. The HEU, unlike British unions, did not abandon the workers when the jobs were privatized but went in and reorganized employer by employer. They lost a lot in the process but they did not lose their solidarity.

jerrym

On April 16th Ipolitics reported that in Quebec "70 per cent of the dead lived in CHSLDs or long-term care residences (51 per cent), or other seniors’ residences (19.3 per cent)".  [https://ipolitics.ca/2020/04/16/70-of-quebecs-covid-19-deaths-are-in-lon...

Yesterday, Premier Legault annouced that the number of COVID-19 long term care home deaths had climbed to 80% of Quebec's. Today a chyron (a message scrolling across the bottom of the TV screen) stated the 85% of deaths in Quebec involved those living in long-term care homes. Legault, like Ford in Ontario, has asked for 1,000 more soldiers to aid in the fight against the virus. Beyond the immediate emergency response to this disaster, there has to be an enormous reform of the entire long-term care system that involves better living conditions for residents, as well as better pay, training and working conditions for all workers in the homes. 

jerrym

Premier Legault has asked the federal government to send 1,000 additional soldiers to help in the long term care outbreaks occuring in many of Quebec' senior care facilities. This is in addition to the 125 that the federal government has already sent. 

The Canadian Forces has already sent about 125 military health-care personnel and support staff to Quebec after the federal government received a request last week for assistance from that provincial government. ...

Quebec Premier Francois Legault also announced Wednesday that he was asking for another 1,000 military personnel to be sent to long-term care facilities in the province. ...

The military teams sent to Quebec long-term care facilities were comprised of nurses, medical technicians and support personnel. Similar teams would be brought together for Ontario’s request. ...

Legault said Wednesday that Quebec’s new request for 1,000 military personnel is centred on staff that can be used in non-medical tasks in the province’s long-term care homes. ...

The Canadian Forces has yet to officially receive that request but military sources say Quebec’s appeal for such a large number of personnel came as a surprise.

The Canadian military has limited numbers of trained medical staff. There are around 2,600 regular force medical professionals, said Department of National Defence spokesman Dan LeBouthillier. That figure includes approximately 460 doctors and nurses.

However, those 2,600 individuals have a primary job of taking care of the 68,000 regular force personnel as well as reservists on operations or full-time service. The number also includes positions such as medical lab technicians, medical technicians, pharmacists, dentists and dental hygienists.

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/national/defence-watch/canadian-military-...

 

jerrym

On Wednesday the Conseil pour la protection des malades (CPM), which works to protect the rights of patients, filed a complaint with the Quebec Human Rights Commission, alleging "discrimination and exploitation of seniors who live or have lived in a long-term care home (CHSLD) or seniors residence since the beginning of the COVID-19 crisis."

On CBC National News last night, the daughter of a resident of a Quebec long-term care home believes her mother died not from Covid-19 but from starvation and dehydration when many of the staff in the home left the job either sick or afraid for their own lives. 

The CPM complaint is calling for an end to the suffering of the elderly. It is also demanding that financial compensation be paid to residents whose right to receive dignified and safe care has allegedly been violated since the beginning of March. ...

The complaint alleges that at the beginning of March, the Quebec government and health authorities should have known that the majority of deaths caused by COVID-19 would involve the elderly based on information available in other countries.

The CPM also contends that the authorities should have known that CHSLDs were most at risk for outbreaks and transmission of the novel coronavirus that causes COVID-19. ...

The organization claims Premier François Legault and the Quebec government only declared that long-term care facilities were their priority in the fight against COVID-19 on April 2. The complaint alleges that the province therefore delayed authorizing and ordering exceptional measures to protect residents.

Paul Brunet, president of the CPM, wrote in the complaint that “thousands of elderly people (…) have been mistreated, neglected, several have died while the government, health authorities, CHSLDs and residences for the elderly have exploited and violated their fundamental rights to the dignity, integrity and security of their person.” ...

The CPM is asking anyone who believes they have suffered from a lack of care and services in a CHSLD since March to contact the organization so that they can be included in the complaint.

https://globalnews.ca/news/6857103/quebec-long-term-care-centres-coronav...

jerrym

The bankruptcy of Premier Legault's proposal to seek to overcome Covid-19 by fostering the development of herd immunity illustrates how ethically bankrupt this regime is. This is a province with the highest Covid death toll in the country, the greatest number of infections, as well as the greatest number and percentage of deaths in senior care homes, but he still proposes to begin openning up the Quebec economy under these circumstances, putting everyone, but especially seniors and those with underlying health conditions, such as diabetes, at risk.  

Premier Francois Legault pushed the concept of "herd immunity" on Thursday as he prepared to lay the groundwork next week for a plan to gradually restart the economy and get children back to schools.

The approach would involve exposing a large proportion of Quebecers to the novel coronavirus in a measured, gradual way, to help them develop a natural immunity.

The idea of reopening schools has garnered an unfavourable response among some parents, teachers and unions, who worry about kids returning to class just weeks after physical distancing and stay-at-home measures were enacted to slow the spread of COVID-19.

But Legault argued Thursday that less than 10 per cent of the province is currently naturally immune to COVID-19 — perhaps a bit more in hard-hit Montreal — and that number won't change unless the province starts resuming certain activities.

"The idea is to go very gradually so that people who are less at risk can develop antibodies to be able to become immune," Legault said. 

Quebec reported an 109 additional COVID-19 linked deaths Thursday, bringing the provincewide death toll to 1,243. The province also confirmed 873 new cases, bringing the overall tally to 21,838.

Legault stressed that the situation in long-term care homes — which accounted for 93 of the additional deaths Thursday — is much different than the rest of the province, which has had more stable figures. ...

Health experts have questioned the strategy, saying there are larger ethical questions that need to be considered.

Alison Thompson, a professor at University of Toronto’s faculty of pharmacy, said letting children be exposed in schools to COVID-19 is a far cry from a mandatory vaccination program. "It’s not just a matter of building immunity — they have to get sick first," she said in a recent interview, calling the proposal a "sickness strategy."

Legault has revealed little about the province's plan, but said parents won't be obliged to send their kids to school. ...

Quebec's association of pediatricians came out in favour of the plan in a two-page letter published Thursday, noting that one thing scientists agree upon is that COVID-19 isn't dangerous for most kids, who are confined largely to protect their grandparents. ...

Quebec reports 9,500 health care workers are missing — 4,000 are recovering or infected with novel coronavirus while 5,500 simply haven't returned to the job.

"We need you," Legault said, reassuring them they would have the protective equipment they need. "The network cannot function with 9,500 people absent." 

The federal government announced 1,000 Canadian Forces members would help shore up staffing at long-term care homes.

A patients' rights group has filed a human rights complaint on behalf of long-term care residents in Quebec.

The Quebec Council for the Protection of Patients' complaint describes alleged discrimination and exploitation of those who live or have lived in long-term care or seniors homes since the beginning of the COVID-19 crisis and seeks financial compensation from the Quebec tribunal.

The province's seniors homes have been the epicentre of the fight against the novel coronavirus, accounting for nearly 80 per cent of deaths — something the council argues the province should have known given what had happened elsewhere.

https://www.toronto.com/news-story/9960228-legault-pushes-herd-immunity-...

bekayne

And this guy's at 95% approval?

jerrym

bekayne wrote:

And this guy's at 95% approval?

 

George Herbert Walker Bush's popularity hit 89% in 1991 during a crisis, the First Gulf War, because people intially tend to rally around a government during a crisis. The real test comes later. For Bush, it came in November 1992 where he won 37.4% of the vote and lost the election. 

swallow swallow's picture

Legault's approval rating is down to 69% at last poll and should be lower next time there's a poll. 

240,000 people in Quebec have signed a petition against re-opening schools. 

pietro_bcc

François Legault is blaming Aaron Derfel of the Montreal Gazette for Anglophones being more afraid of catching Covid-19 than Francophones. Damn lying news media. MQGA!

https://twitter.com/Aaron_Derfel

How irresponsible, reporting facts!

jerrym

Legautlt is getting more criticism.

 Analysts generally agree the wheels started to come off the bus in this province around the time the horror of Dorval’s Résidence Herron CHSLDbecame public knowledge.

Until then, Quebec seemed to have a decent plan for dealing with the COVID-19pandemic. Locking down the province, closing schools and daycares, pushing social distancing, freeing up 7,000 hospital beds and telling seniors to stay home seemed to be the thing to do.

To this day, Quebec health officials say the decisions taken early in the pandemic helped saved thousands of lives here.

Early on, Premier François Legault earned praise from all sides for his steady, fatherly, things-are-going-to-be-OK tone and decisive management style. It was the same for his gregarious director of public health, Horacio Arruda, who had Quebecers laughing in a tragic time as he talked about recipes for Portuguese pies.

On the night of April 10, reality kicked in when Legault’s crisis team, gathered in the Honoré-Mercier Building housing the premier’s National Assembly office, was told about the scope of the losses — 31 dead at the time — at the Dorval residence.

Legault had been warning all along the virus had to be kept out of such facilities, which house Quebec’s most vulnerable citizens.

“Once this virus enters a seniors’ residence, it’s a little like setting fire to hay,” Legault said on April 23 as his team struggled to control the spread of COVID-19 in hundreds of Quebec’s public and private residences. “Everything burns fast.” And that’s what happened. Suddenly, all seniors’ residences — the weakest link in the health-care system — were under scrutiny. ...

And in the last two weeks, it has become clear unlocking the province is even harder than closing it down.“We were here five days a week … trying to explain,” Legault said this week when asked by the Montreal Gazette about criticism of his crisis management. ...

But the confused messaging has been an issue. On Monday, for example, Legault warned teachers and daycare workers over 60 should not return to work now that Quebec is lifting some elements of its lockdown.

On Wednesday, with no particular explanation, the government sent out Deputy Premier Geneviève Guilbault to say only workers over 70 are at significant risk. 

At the start of the crisis, Arruda decreed grandparents should not be asked to babysit their grandchildren so parents can go back to work. On Thursday, that rule was out the window, too, with Arruda stating those under 70 can babysit under certain conditions. ...

And after saying caregivers wanting to visit CHSLD residents would need to be tested before being admitted, Marguerite Blais, minister for seniors, changed the rule Friday and said it is not necessary to do so.

Legault also preached the advantages of herd immunity, only to drop that concept after it became clear Quebecers took offence.

And with Quebec still short of health-care workers — 11,600 at last count — some have asked why Legault waited so long to call in the army to help at residences. ...

https://montrealgazette.com/news/quebec/analysis-as-covid-19-rages-montr...

 

cco

The Gazette is really twisting itself into knots trying to blame Legault for Résidence Herron, since it's run by a convicted drug trafficker and money launderer who got the franchise by delivering a bribe to the PLQ. Looks like they've fallen back on "whatever he did, he should've done it sooner and in English".

pietro_bcc

cco wrote:
The Gazette is really twisting itself into knots trying to blame Legault for Résidence Herron, since it's run by a convicted drug trafficker and money launderer who got the franchise by delivering a bribe to the PLQ. Looks like they've fallen back on "whatever he did, he should've done it sooner and in English".

The Gazette didn't blame Legault for Herron. You're just making stuff up, I read the Gazette so I know. They didn't blame anyone, they just broke the story and described what was happening.

pietro_bcc

Legault isn't responsible for the initial outbreaks in CHSLDs (the Liberals are), he is responsible for the incompetant management of the file after the outbreaks began though.

jerrym

With more than 60% of Quebec's Covid-19 deaths occurring in long term care homes (LTCs), the military report on this sitation identifies the terrrible conditions that have been allowed to develop in the LTCs. The fact the Legault government is now planning to hire 10,000 additional LTC workers tells everyone how grossly understaffed the homes were. Of course, there would have been no change, if the government could have survived long-term without doing anything. 

A report prepared by the Canadian military about Quebec's long-term care homes says the division between "hot" and "cold" zones, proper use of protective equipment and staffing shortages remain major challenges in the facilities.

The report was shared with the Quebec government Tuesday night and made public this morning, on the heels of a separate, more damning report a day earlier about conditions in Ontario.

The Quebec report provides an account of the conditions in 25 homes where members of the military have been assisting during the pandemic.

In many cases, the military describes how equipment and staffing were inadequate when they arrived but have since improved.

At the Centre d'hébergement Saint-Laurent in Montreal, for example, the report notes some staff weren't properly using protective equipment and were moving between "hot" zones, for those who have tested positive, and "cold" zones, which are supposed to be COVID-free. 

The report said military personnel helped train staff to improve the situation.

Problems in Quebec's long-term care homes, known by their French initials as CHSLDs, have already been well-documented. ...

Workers on the front lines have described chaos inside the homes, including a lack of protective equipment for staff and for residents who had not yet caught the disease. ...

For example, at Vigi Mont-Royal, another Montreal residence, the report notes a shipment of narcotic medications seemed to have disappeared, and care units were short of supplies of some items.

"A lack of medical equipment is often noted during shift changes, and the soldiers had to intervene several times to offer solutions to allow the nursing staff to do their work safely," the report says.

According to the report, there still aren't enough patient attendants, who provide much of the basic care in the homes.

At CHSLD de la Rive, in Laval, the report noted a persistent shortage of staff, saying "most of the people who work at the centre are volunteers with little or no CHSLD experience." ...

More than 1,675 troops have been deployed to long-term care homes in Quebec and Ontario to help with residents' day-to-day needs, to clean the facilities and distribute meals.

 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/quebec-caf-military-report-1.558...

 

lagatta4

Yes, it is scandalous, ma anche la francofobia di un certo iscritto. Things are pretty much as shitty in Ontario care homes.

And frankly, there are other questions to pose. Why don't we make the right to die rather than being a demented non-person a human right? Yes, of course I think any pressure on people with incepient dementia to sign off is deeply immoral, but I've had several relatives (all now dead) say they'd rather die than "end up like that".

I most certainly would, and do, and it is not because of a death wish. A lot of this crap comes from the hold religion still has on society, decades after the Quiet Revolution.

 

 

pietro_bcc

----

jerrym

Protesters are continuing to demand that Trudeau and Legault give asylum seekers who put their lives on the line to work in long-term care homes during the Covid-19 outbreaks in Quebec be given special status and allow to enter training programs for permanent jobs in the sector. 

Demonstrators were back in front of the prime minister's riding office in Montreal on Saturday, demanding a firm commitment from the federal and provincial governments for asylum seekers working on Quebec's COVID-19 front lines.

A few hundred — in cars, on bicycles or on foot — met in front of Justin Trudeau's Montreal office and honked their horns and displayed their solidarity as they travelled along the streets that create the borders of Trudeau's federal riding of Papineau.

The movement wants special status granted to asylum seekers working as orderlies and other jobs in the province's pandemic-hit long-term care homes.

Following the demonstration two weeks ago, Quebec Premier Francois Legault asked the province's Immigration Department to assess each request to determine if they could be eligible for a path to citizenship as immigrants instead of through the federal refugee system.

Wilner Cayo, head of the group advocating on their behalf, said the case-by-case approach is still tinged with the "logic of exclusion."

"We are asking for an extraordinary measure to accommodate all essential workers seeking asylum," Cayo said. "It’s a question of humanity, fairness, justice — these people are paying a heavy price, they are contributing to this war effort."

Cayo noted these people are doing jobs that are deemed essential during the pandemic and difficult to fill.

But other advocates have also noted those in the same situation working in other essential services such as food-processing or security aren't being given the same treatment. ...

Interim Parti Quebecois Leader Pascal Berube said the province has a duty to recognize those who helped during the pandemic.

But he supports the Coalition Avenir Quebec government's approach to assessing cases individually and said he wouldn't support an emergency measure for all asylum seekers involved in essential jobs.

"It is not automatic," Berube said. "I think the first step that has been taken is a step in the right direction because the cases are not all the same."

Berube said he is in favour of asylum seekers having places reserved in the Quebec government's push to hire and train 10,000 people to become full-fledged orderlies as of mid-September after taking part in a three-month paid training program.

Quebec solidaire immigration critic Andres Fontecilla also expressed his support for the movement."We started with a total refusal on the federal government's part and on the part of the Legault government and now we're at a case-by-case basis, but it's not enough," Fontecilla said, calling for a regularization of their status on humanitarian grounds as well as one of national gratitude.

There are no precise figures on the number of asylum seekers working in long-term care homes, but some advocates have estimated they number several hundred.

https://www.chroniclejournal.com/news/national/supporters-want-commitmen...

 

jerrym

Quebec's coroner has ordered a public inquiry into the high level of deaths in senior's homes in Quebec. 

Quebec's coroner Pascale Descary has ordered a large-scale public inquiry into the COVID-19 deaths of seniors in the province's long-term care facilities.

The process will be fully public and will allow Quebecers to follow the post mortem into this social issue, the coroner's office said in a statement Wednesday.

As of Tuesday, 3,642 of the nearly 5,300 deaths from COVID-19 in the province occurred within public long-term care facilities (CHSLDs) and another 932 stemmed from private care facilities (RPAs) for seniors; together they account for 86 per cent of COVID-19 deaths in the province.

Nearly three-quarters of those who died from the virus in Quebec were over age 80 and 92 per cent were over 70 years old.

A coroner and lawyer Géhane Kamel have been appointed to preside over the inquiry. Kamel has already been tasked with investigating the deaths at Herron Residence in Dorval, which will form the basis of the investigation.

A coroner with medical training, Dr. Jacques Ramsay, will be appointed to assist Kamel due to the complexity of the subject and the large number of deaths, the coroner's office said.

"It is important to remember that coroners intervene in cases of violent, obscure or deaths that could be linked to negligence. Deaths outside these (parameters), including those that result solely from a coronavirus infection, are not investigated by the coroners," the coroner's office said in its statement.

Kamel and her team will look at deaths in several types of residences and in several regions in order to paint a representative portrait of the situation at the provincial level. 

To be analyzed as part of the investigation, the deaths must meet the following criteria:

  •  the death occurred while the person was living in a CHSLD, an RPA or a home for vulnerable people or people losing their autonomy (RI)
  •  the death occurred during the period from March 12 to May 1, 2020
  •  the death was communicated to the coroner because of its violent or obscure nature or because it is possibly linked to negligence. 

Kamel will be tasked with making recommendations into the matter "to avoid further deaths and protect human life," the coroner's office stated, adding that details of this investigation and the date of the first hearings will be released at a later time.

https://montreal.ctvnews.ca/quebec-coroner-orders-public-inquiry-into-co...

Misfit Misfit's picture

Legault assembles team to fight racism in Quebec. There are criticisms already.

1. There is a former police officer who has worked with indigenous people on the team but are no First Nations or Inuit on the task force. Legault says that there are no First Nations MNA's in the National Assembly.

2. Legault says that the majority of Quebec people are not racist but there is still racism in Quebec which he hopes to tackle right away.

https://nunatsiaq.com/stories/article/quebecs-anti-racism-task-force-flawed-without-inuit-voices-makivik/

The former police officer could have a bias when it comes to matters of carding and other problems dealing with systemic discrimination involving police.

All the people appointed to the committee are from his own governing party.

https://montrealgazette.com/opinion/columnists/macpherson-just-dont-call-it-a-committee-on-systemic-discrimination

His action plan seems like a public relations stunt that is designed to display that his government is serious about racism while at the same time wanting to rightly censor the issues that are to be addressed.

 

lagatta4

If there are no Indigenous people in the National Assembly, it is essential that the task force include First Nations and Inuit representatives, from Indigenous organisations or civil society. And today is National Indigenous Peoples' Day.

There is a lot of police violence against Indigenous people. Perhaps it is less visible to people in cities as much of it occurs in remote regions, but it is a constant concern for First Nations and Inuit people here. One group that faces particular dangers not only from the police but from other men is homeless or precariously housed women from Northern Québec, (Inuit, Eastern Cree etc) who have fled domestic violence in their home regions.

kropotkin1951

White settlers with a powerful political movement, based on the fact that they have been discriminated against inside of Canada's institutions, denying that systemic racism exists at all levels of Canadian society. WTF

Misfit Misfit's picture

https://montrealgazette.com/opinion/columnists/macpherson-just-dont-call-it-a-committee-on-systemic-discrimination

"The “laicity” law forbids newly hired teachers and certain other government employees from wearing religious symbols on duty.

While its defenders argue that it applies equally to symbols of all religions, in reality it disproportionately affects Muslim women who wear the head covering called the hijab.

The legislation even includes an admission that it is discriminatory, in the form of “notwithstanding” clauses overriding the protections against discrimination in the Quebec as well as the Canadian charters of rights."

 

Well, it deliberately affects Sikh people as well.

I don't feel comfortable attacking Quebec on this. I have enough racist shit here in Saskatchewan that I don't need to deflect and point fingers at Quebec. And yes, as a western Canadian, we have played a role in our racism and hatred against francophones living in Quebec and elsewhere. I do not feel that it is my place to be addressing this issue. It comes across as me deflecting onto Quebec what isn't happening in my own back yard.

I don't speak French so I am limited in my resources to get a clear idea of the street reaction to what is happening with white politicians denying and minimizing systemic racism, saying that racist deniers are nice people, and that they are genuinely serious in wanting to eradicate racism from their institutions which does not appear to be sincere.  I wish I had a better grasp of the local grassroots reaction to what is going on in Quebec right now.

The Quebec government invoked the notwithstanding clause in order to enact their secularism law. They know that there is systemic discrimination within their institutions.

Where is the outrage?!? Or is there any significant outrage aside from the small number of civil liberty proponents outside of the minority communities affected?

I am going to say no more.

 

kropotkin1951

That article from the Gazette talked about "the talk" that all black kids in Canada are given by their parents. My sister gave her sons the talk when they were growing up and they are almost fifty now. Sadly the racial profiling in the Toronto area is worse now than it was thirty years ago when they were teenagers. I warned my son about the dangers of the police but not with the same urgency given he is a well spoken white person.

"You’ve heard the expression “white privilege,” but you don’t know what it means? Here’s an example: It’s me and my white sons not needing to have what Black people call “the Talk.”

That’s when parents of young Black men tell them how to behave so they won’t get arrested or worse, not if they are stopped by police, but when."

Misfit Misfit's picture

My comment does not belong in the Legault thread but I am a white person who lives in an unassuming small city in Saskatchewan. I am a taxi driver who has had to call the police from time to time for help.

I honestly thought that I was a human being until I dealt with our local police detachment. In my many encounters with them I can recall a few positive experiences but the rest left me feeling angry, humiliated, dehumanized, and or violated. I know that First Nations, black, and people of colour face much much worse. I don't know how they do it.

Pondering

Misfit wrote:

The Quebec government invoked the notwithstanding clause in order to enact their secularism law. They know that there is systemic discrimination within their institutions.

Where is the outrage?!? Or is there any significant outrage aside from the small number of civil liberty proponents outside of the minority communities affected?

I am going to say no more.

 

The notwithstanding clause was used against anglophones to pass Bill 101 so Quebec doesn't see its use as objectionable. 

Misfit Misfit's picture

I think the point was that they know that their secular law is a form of systemic discrimination. They have said outright that there is no systemic discrimination in Quebec knowing full well that if they invoke the notwithstanding clause to override charter protections that they are knowingly and deliberately systemically discriminating against others with their legislation. They are not saying that they feel that their  secularism law is a justifiable and necessary form discrimination for whatever reason they wish to give, they are claiming that virtually none exists except for little traces here and there which need to be weeded out.

Because of this claim they hould have had no problem in unanimously consenting to reform systemic discrimination within the RCMP across Canada.

lagatta4

La Charte de la langue française was essential to ward off national oppression and assimilation. I don't know if you remember how oppressive not only signage but unequal expectations was for francophones before its enactment. Not to mention that in its absence it meant that Québécois who were not otherwise reactionary, on the contrary, would fear immigration as immigrants would gravitate to English, the language of the bosses - even Latin-speaking immigrants such as Italians and Portuguese.

La Charte has had an extremely positive impact in Québec, and has greatly reduced social tension and violence.

And frankly, Anglophones who live here should learn French.

Misfit Misfit's picture

I learned in high school that things were just awful for francophones. People from the rural communities would move to Montreal to look for work. They didn't speak English and lacked the education courses to get office jobs. They were hired as taxi drivers, domestic housekeepers, janitors, and other low income jobs. They were the majority yet they were the lowest socioeconomic demographic in their own province. The influence of American television programming was also working to erode the French language. I don't know and many western Canadians cannot possibly know or grasp how extreme the oppression was against the French.

Last year I had two separatr instances where I chatted with someone from down east with a French last name. I asked if they were from Quebec. Both of them had a family story that was similar: their father was originally from Quebec and spoke French. Their father's family moved from Quebec to Ontario for work when their father was in grade school.  Their father was beaten and pulverized in school for being French to the point where he refused to ever speak French again. Therefore their father never taught them to speak French because he was too ashamed. 
 

There are a lot of French people in western  Canada who do not know how to speak French. In my small town there are a few well established French families. They were never harassed like those stories I heard about from growing up in Ontario and they never spoke French either. Their great grandfather spoke French fluently. Their grandfather knew some French. The next generation could speak a few words and didn't really identify as being French either. By that time,  being French just meant having a French last name.

Both of these scenarios are very bad. No one should be harassed and bullied for being French. It speaks to the vilest and darkest horrors of our racist past imaginable.

The second group is another disaster. Being French is more than simply having a French last name while living as an English  person in western Canada. Something is seriously lost with people nicely and pleasantly assimilating as though nothing is wrong.

I know very little about Quebec and it's history. From my limited awareness, it is obvious and clear to me that Law 101 was both necessary and just.

Europeans learn to speak many languages in school. Canadians fight over having to learn just two. This does not speak well for us.

kropotkin1951

If one agrees as I do that French speaking people in Canada suffered and to some extent still suffer systemic discrimination it is hard to wrap my head around the Bloc MP's who don't see their own Islamophobia as systemic. Frankly I think that asshole Bloc MP when he looks at Jagmeet hates the turban more than the skin tone.

So tell me Lagatta how is this playing out in Quebec. Will it win the Bloc more seats or send them back to being irrelevant.

 

Pondering

The English did not keep the French down in Quebec. Outside of Montreal and the Eastern Townships it would be rare to find an English speaker. The French upper class looked down on business. They went into the professions. Yes English bosses hired people who could understand them. duh. Look around Montreal. Who do Chinese businesses hire? Who do Greek businesses hire? Who do family owned businesses hire? I agree that many parts of bill 101 produced a fairer, wait, not fairer, they produced a more French province. They did so by oppressing English speakers not promoting French. If it was about protecting and promoting French day one should have been French being taught on TV at every level. Even now English speakers in Montreal are barred from government courses. 

The Quebec government at every level overwhelmingly white French people  born to white French people. They are fully in power and they didn't buy into the whole drop culture and buy into the notion that they only wanted to preserve the language rather than dominate. Bill 21 is a natural progression from Bill 101. It is needed to protect the Quebecois culture from the other, of which the English is only part of.

The problem demographically was that Protestant Schools were the catch-all for immigrants instead of French so the English community was growing and would eventually overtake French. The French (as they were known then) did not and do not want that. 

Just as the French could see the danger of a growing English community they see the same danger in immigrant communities. They see Montreal again as the threat. They leave Montreal specifically to escape English and immigrants. They don't want their kids going to a school that is 50% immigrants. They want their kids to have the same experience growing up as they did. They certainly don't want all of Quebec to end up a soup like Montreal. 

I believe I read that Bill 21 has 85% support among francophones. It is the new tool of Legault and the Bloc for maintaining power. The rest of Canada will continue being opposed to Bill 21. Quebecers will continue to support it. Politicians will be forced to give their opinions. I expect years of Blanchet in the house. 

Bill 101 and bill 21 are based on the same logic and the same desire to preserve the Quebecois culture. Bill 101 prevents French parents from sending their children to an English school and prevents French schools from teaching English from an early grade. If the population has to be forced I question who is really being served. More recently they tried to bar French students from attending English CECEPS. I bet everyone in the 1% is fluently bilingual. 

The grand majority by far of English people who remained in Montreal did learn French and do speak it. The ends do not justify the means. If a society accepts the fairness of trampling on the rights of a minority then they will see it as fair to do the same to another minority in support of the same goal. 

The francophones formerly known as The French always had control of the Church, Politics, and the Professions. This was not a case of English people preventing French businesses from succeeding in Montreal. 

Politicians soon saw that they have a problem. Quebec needs immigrants. Many Quebecers still have a garrison mentality in which Quebec is a spec in a sea of others at risk of being wiped out culturally. 

Montreal francophones are different than in the regions. I think we form a distinct society that is politically out of step with the rest of the province.  Montreal is the threat to Quebec that must be contained.  Quebec does not support multiculturalism. They don't just want people speaking French at work, they want them speaking French at home. They want assimilation. 

The only thing protecting any kind of minority rights is the Canadian government. An independent Quebec would pass laws more regressive than Bill 21. 

Misfit Misfit's picture

Btw, welcome back Pondering. I noticed three days ago that you were MIA for quite a while and was worried that you may have been ill. I even checked on your tracking to scan how long you were absent from the board. I am pleased to find you back and with us again and that you are ok.

Misfit Misfit's picture

Pondering, do you feel that English Canada is ultimately responsible since had they not been racist And oppressive that francophones wouldn't need to feel so protective and fearful of losing their culture and language?

kropotkin1951

Misfit wrote:

Pondering, do you feel that English Canada is ultimately responsible since had they not been racist And oppressive that francophones wouldn't need to feel so protective and fearful of losing their culture and language?

Interesting question but could you please define English Canada for me. It seems to me from a Western Canadian perspective that the Golden Square Mile crowd oppressed all Canadians regardless of language, be it French, Cantonese, indigenous, Irish, Ukrainian,  or even Cockney speakers.

By the mid-19th century, the Montreal mercantile elite, residing in the Square Mile, firmly held the reins of Canada's economy. The merchants successfully connected Canada by building a network of railroads and exploiting maritime routes and the port of Montreal, which l remained the principal port through which immigrants arrived, and also through which Canada's produce was shipped to and from Britain and the Empire.

For decades, the wealth accumulated from the fur trade, finance, and other industries made of Montreal's mercantile elite a "kind of commercial aristocracy, living in lordly and hospitable style," as Washington Irving observed.[9] In 1820, John Bigsby penned his impressions of the city:

I found, but did not expect to find, at Montreal a pleasing transcript of the best form of London life — even in the circle beneath the very first class of official families. But I may be pardoned; for I had seen in the capital of another great colony (Cape Town) considerable primitiveness of manners.. (In Montreal) at an evening party at Mr Richardson's the appointments and service were admirable; the dress, manners, and conversation of the guests, in excellent taste. Most of the persons there, though country-born, had been educated in England (Britain), and everything savoured of Kensington. There was much good music.. Some of the show-shops rival those of London in their plate-glass windows, and its inns are as remarkable for their palatial exterior as they are for their excellent accommodation within.. Montreal is a stirring and opulent town.. Few places have so advanced in all the luxuries and comforts of high civilisation as Montreal.[10]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Square_Mile#Montreal's_mercantile_community_(1642-1930)

Pondering

Thank you for your concern. It is appreciated. I withdraw periodically for a few reasons. Sometimes the news is just overwhelmingly disheartening. This time has been a combination of factors. Annoyance at the gross mismanagement of Covid 19 and the sensation of watching a never-ending train wreck. At the same time I have been investing a lot of thought into racism and understanding the experiences of racialized people in Canada. I ususally attend protests so I have been torn about not attending the BLM protests. 

Looking for a means to do something concrete to make a difference I decided to order 2 books (on July 1st) and after reading them donate them to a library or school.  So far my choices are Me And White Supremacy - Layla F. Saad, and White Fragility by Robin DiAngelo although they are subject to change. I'm wondering if I would be better off with something on indigenous people in Canada. 

Misfit wrote:

Pondering, do you feel that English Canada is ultimately responsible since had they not been racist And oppressive that francophones wouldn't need to feel so protective and fearful of losing their culture and language?

No not at all. I think that politicians exploit differences to increase fear between groups in order to maintain control. Divide and conquer consistently works remarkably well. Quebec politicians deliberately set up the English community as scapegoat to divert attention from their own crimes which isn't to say the English community was without fault. Having said that the French were subjegated by the Church and by Quebec politicians and leaders. Sometimes not knowing the details lets a person see through all the crap. What I see is a battle over who gets to exploit the people not whether or not we will be exploited. The heart of the Quite Revolution, social justice, has been discarded in favor of creating boogie men and promoting the garrison mentality. 

I find the battle between two colonial powers ironic as if either can claim victimhood on stolen land. Anyone with wealth in Quebec has fluently bilingual children.  

jerrym

Canada has negotiated with Quebec an agreement to create a path to permanent residency for health care workers who put their lives at risk in hospitals and long-term care homes, but this agreement will not extend to other asylum workers who put their lives at risk in essential services such as food services and security. Once again half measures is all that the Trudeau government does. 

The federal government is granting permanent residency to some asylum seekers who cared for patients in hospitals and long-term care homes at the height of the pandemic last spring, in a one-time program that became more restrictive as Ottawa negotiated with Quebec. ...

The compromise with Quebec, where most of the affected asylum seekers live and which has an agreement with Ottawa to oversee immigration, is to grant permanent residency if they worked in a hospital or other health-care institution and meet other eligibility requirements.

The decision would affect about 1,000 claimants across Canada. ...

hose working in hospitals and understaffed care homes risked exposure to COVID-19 — sometimes with fatal consequences — and have come to be known as "guardian angels" in Quebec. ...

To be eligible for permanent residency, asylum seekers must:

  • Have applied for asylum before March 13 and have a work permit.
  • Have worked in patient care at a health-care institution for at least 120 hours between March 13 and August 14.
  • Have six months of experience in patient care at a health-care institution by Aug. 31, 2021.
  • Meet other criteria related to permanent residency, notably health and safety requirements. ...

The federal government had initially envisioned broader eligibility requirements, which would have included other workers in hospitals and care facilities, such as security guards and maintenance staff.

But after weeks of negotiations with Quebec, Ottawa decided to tighten the program. As is the case with all who settle in the province, the asylum seekers will still need a certificat de sélection du Quebec (CSQ) from the province.

The program is open to both those whose cases are still open and those who have been denied permanent residency. An eligible asylum seeker's spouse and children will also be granted status under the program if they live in Canada. ...

"I think what it offers right now is a glimmer of hope," said Toronto-based immigration lawyer Adrienne Smith. Her clients, some of whom work in Ontario's long-term care homes, are facing delays of up to two years for a hearing with the Immigration and Refugee Board of Canada.

"They're putting their lives on the line right now, not even knowing they're going to be allowed to stay in the country," she said.

Montreal-based community group La Maison d'Haiti, which was consulted over the summer about the federal program, estimates there are thousands of asylum seekers in the province. The group's executive director, Marjorie Villefranche, is frustrated with the end result. She says the group pushed for all those who were working in what Quebec defined as essential services during the pandemic to be included. "They think that they came here and claimed for asylum the wrong way. It's like a punishment," she said of the provincial government.

Many Haitian asylum seekers reach Canada by crossing at an unofficial entry point at Roxham Road near Hemmingford, Que. ...

Paul Clarke, executive director of Action Réfugiés Montréal, said while it's always good news when asylum seekers are granted status, this measure does not go far enough. "There were asylum seekers who were working in warehouses all through the pandemic making sure that there was food at your local Loblaws or Provigo," he said. "It's a time to be generous with people who need protection."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/asylum-seekers-guardian-angels-c...

jerrym

Although Legault and Trudeau allowed those asylum seekers who worked in long term care homes and hospitals to have a route to permanent resdiency they did not even given that to security guards at these places. 

Doll Jean Frejus Nguessan Bi says he couldn’t sleep at all last night.

The asylum seeker from Ivory Coast works as a security guard in hospitals and long-term care homes in the Montreal area, where he watched many of his colleagues stop coming in as deaths linked to COVID-19 began to mount this spring.

But while Nguessan Bi kept working, he said he found out Friday that he would be excluded from a new government program to fast-track the permanent residency applications of some asylum seekers working on the front lines during the pandemic.

“Why (not) us? We who gave our hearts and our love… Why are we abandoned?” he said in an interview at a protest camp across the street from Prime Minister Justin Trudeau’s Montreal riding office Saturday. “What did we do to deserve this?” ...

Ottawa announced Friday that asylum seekers working in specific jobs in the health-care sector would be eligible for permanent residency without first having to wait for their asylum claims to be accepted, as is typically the process. ...

But asylum seekers and their supporters say Ottawa’s plan excludes thousands of workers without permanent status in Canada who have laboured on the front lines during the pandemic, often at great personal risk to themselves and their families. ...

That includes security guards and janitorial staff, factory workers, and farm labourers, among others.

“I have friends who worked with me in security that abandoned (their posts) because they were afraid of getting infected. But I stayed,” said Nguessan Bi.

He said he wants Trudeau and Quebec Premier Francois Legault to do something to help asylum seekers who are not eligible for the new program.

Several dozen people rallied in front of Trudeau’s office on Saturday to demand permanent residency for all asylum seekers. ...

“It’s an act of recognition. They deserve status,” Joseph Clormeus, a member of Debout pour la dignite, a Montreal advocacy group that organized the rally, told the crowd.

Anite Presume, a Haitian asylum seeker who came to Quebec in August 2017 from the United States, was among the protesters.

She works in a medication factory, and said she kept working during the pandemic despite the risks.

“To take the bus, we were all stressed, but we still went to work because it was essential. They needed medication for the hospitals,” she said in an interview.

She said she has not received a response yet to her application for asylum in Canada, and lives under a cloud of uncertainty and stress about her future.

“It’s a feeling of rejection,” Presume said, about not being included in Ottawa’s regularization program. “They rejected us as if we did nothing.”

The program was the result of negotiations between the federal government and Quebec, who have had a strained relationship on the question of immigration, and in particular the asylum claimants, in recent years.

Public support has been building for asylum seekers’ demand for permanent residency after it was revealed that refugee claimants were among those toiling in Quebec’s long-term care facilities, which were hard-hit by COVID-19.

https://chatnewstoday.ca/2020/08/15/why-not-us-asylum-seekers-on-covid-1...

 

pietro_bcc

I don't know why you're including Trudeau in your criticism of the criteria being too narrow, when its universally agreed upon that Trudeau wanted more broad eligibility criteria but Legault said no because he believed that it would cause more people to seek asylum.

jerrym

pietro_bcc wrote:

I don't know why you're including Trudeau in your criticism of the criteria being too narrow, when its universally agreed upon that Trudeau wanted more broad eligibility criteria but Legault said no because he believed that it would cause more people to seek asylum.

Even when he wants more he too readily settles for less IMO, probably because he is usually about the grand gesture rather than the result.

lagatta4

Pondering, I'm bloody sick of your anti-Québécois racism. And I'm no friend of the racist and reactionary CAQ, a modern incarnation of L'Union nationale.

lagatta4

Some posters would deny the national oppression of people in countries south of the US, due to the attested repression and in some cases utter genocide of Indigenous peoples from Mexico to Tierra del Fuego. That is useless. There has been an increasing awareness of these evils among activists in all those countries, and also up here in Québec. We have to build solidarity between Indigenous peoples and others who are at least in part settlers against imperialism and colonisation throughout the Americas. And not deny the self-determination either of Indigenous peoples or of Latin speakers from Québec to Patagonia.

I loathe the CAQ. There are governments just as loathsome much farther south, in particular Bolsonaro in Brazil.

Pages