I found this post, number 37, very disheartening.
Apparently I shouldn't quote from it here but I could not let it pass unanswered because it is by a mod. That means I am taking the chance of being banned but it is worth it.
So, you wanna be a Liberal, be a Liberal and own it. Just know that in a lot of discussion about the NDP however, you'll be looking in as an outsider. Hell, you can even be a fiscal conservative. We even have a history of one doing well here for years, because he happened to be a very pleasant and courtious guy. *waves at Heywood*. Social conservatives can expect a short life.
What if you don't want to be a Liberal? What if you are just someone who supports Trudeau specifically and are angry at the NDP?
There seems to be just as many posters here that support Trudeau as support the NDP not because they are Liberals but because they preferred Liberal policy. This has been referred to as a Liberal invasion.
Nathan Cullen said this:
Cullen, who has been the MP from Skeena–Bulkley Valley in B.C.'s Northern interior since 2004, doesn't think so. Most New Democrats have an "allergic reaction" to big deficit spending, he said. The working poor are usually the first to understand that deficits are unsustainable, and "pay-as-you-go spending is ingrained in our thinking."
Not only is Cullen comfortable with the NDP position, he thinks the New Democrats couldn't get away with running deficits in the same manner the Liberal party can.
Deficits were and are inevidable even without the Liberal infrastructure program. Economists even in the Globe and Mail and National Post were criticizing the focus on having a balanced budget and were referring to 10 billion dollar fluctuations as no big deal given the size of our economy.
The NDP was unwilling to be truthful because the NDP believes they don't have the credibility to defend running a deficit. Instead they expected Canadians to believe that a 2% increase in corporate taxes would pay for all their promises.
The NDP is unwilling to make the progressive arguments. but we are supposed to just accept that the NDP is the progressive party.
Most people who voted Liberal and/or support Trudeau did so because he presented the most credible package not because they are Liberals.
There are many men here who vehemently defend prostitution. Is it okay for me to infer they must all be Johns due to their enthusiastic support?
It's not okay to impose identities on other people.
Understand however, that the bulk of members here are having a hard enough time sorting out their feelings about the NDP, and most of the fire coming at the party as it currently stands is coming from the left.
It is my understanding that such situations are exactly why rules of civility exist. We are adults. Having a hard time sorting out feelings is not an excuse to harass or attack other posters, or shouldn't be. Some posters that haven't been around for awhile have expressed their surprise over the abusive behavior being tolerated.
When I come across flame wars I usually can't tell who was at fault first and I generally couldn't care less. I'm just not interested and it taints the site.
How broad an audience does babble want to serve? It's valid to want to limit it to primarily activists, but you don't have many of them here. Or to activists and NDP supporters, but not a lot of those seem to hang out here either. You could add academics, but those seem few and far between as well. It seems the constituency you are aiming at doesn't want to be here or doesn't exist.
There is insufficient appreciation for those of us who don't fall in those categories.
This thread suggests separate forums for NDPers and Liberals.
I'm all for it. The Liberal forum would have no posters at all, or maybe 1. The NDP forum would have a flurry of posts from about 5 posters then it would die except for occasional flurries of trying to make it seem active, and maybe not even that.
Liberal supporters, or at least those who appear to be often wander into this crossfire, and muddy and confuse things. You are also walking into what may be an already tense family disagreement. I am of the belief that this is more often intentional, has a certain passive aggressive flavour, and thereby drawing a level of hostility.
What is more passive aggressive than throwing out that kind of accusation against members of babble? I guess you are disinterested in why former family members left. The urge is to close ranks.
Here is something else Nathan Cullen said in the same interview.
If two political leaders say the exact same thing, depending on who says it, the reception can be totally different.
That happens here too but it should not be supported by moderators.
As far as I know the only person here who identified as a Liberal is Debater and he destroyed his membership based on the Liberal position on C 51. The rest have all cited specific reasons why they decided to support the Liberals or Trudeau during this election.
Calling any of us liars is not okay. Repeately challenging our right to participate in conversations including personal slurs is not okay. If NDPers need a protected zone create one. You want a specific "no pondering zone" make one but in the general political forums I should be entitled to the same respect as anyone else.