BitCoins?

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Thu, 2011-06-16 12:29

#1

sknguy II

BitCoins?

I'm curious if anyone has been involved in the BitCoin market? I'm trying to get my head around understanding Bitcoin's application other than what's explained in the Wikipedia. At this time there aren't any retailers that accept Bitcoins. I believe it's more in the realm of a fanbase trade and echange just yet. Interesting concept to have a currency that's not fixed and can be user valued.

A Youtube video on Bitcoins here, Yale law student's paper on legal aspects of Bitcoins here, And here is a site that promotes the use of Bitcoins.

Although I think the idea is unique, I could see market manipulation just like regular money. In this system, just as in regular money markets, there's is both value and volume to manipulate. But, this is probably something we'll see more of in the future though.

Fri, 2011-07-01 12:46

#2

Spectrum

Spectrum's picture

Interesting?

Sat, 2013-08-17 15:49

#3

abnormal

Bitcoin is already being investigated for money laundering - more accurately pretty much every senior person involved with Bitcoin has been subpoenaed over it's money laundering controls (or lack thereof).

http://tinyurl.com/l32q2ku

If you google "bitcoin money laundering" without the quotes you'll get dozens of hits.

BTW, if anyone thinks that simply being investigated over your money laundering controls (or lack thereof) is a "minor" thing you might want to read this:

Quote:

You’ll recall that HSBC was hit with $1.9 billion in fines over allegations about money laundering? You’ll also have noted that no one ever actually did prove that it shifted around money for Mexican drug dealers and all the rest. Rather, that it’s internal documentation processes were inadequate to show that it had not been doing so. It was not a $1.9 billion fine for laundering money: it was a $1.9 billion fine for not following the regulations about how to monitor and or prevent money laundering.

">http://tinyurl.com/k4vs5vh

and this

Quote:

HSBC bank has reportedly asked more than 40 diplomatic missions to close their accounts as part of a programme to reduce business risks.

">http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23565506

And the list goes on.

For the record, it's not just HSBC - it includes any number of international banks.

=================================

Sorry for the thread drift here but it's important to realize that Bitcoin is just one of many potential players in the "money laundering business".

Sat, 2013-08-17 18:01

#4

wage zombie

Bitcoin is great. I know of a health good / grocery store and a couple restaurants that take it here in BC. Wordpress and other online services accept it too.

I think this article gives a good description about how it works.

http://blog.priceonomics.com/post/47135650437/are-bitcoins-the-future

Sun, 2013-08-18 21:19

#5

CanadaOrangeCat

The crooks on Wall St., Bay St., and the City seem to have the bitcoin market cornered now. I would stay well away from it.

Sun, 2013-08-18 23:07

#6

NDPP

Germany Recognizes Bitcoin as 'Private Money'

http://rt.com/news/bitcoin-germany-recognize-currency-641/

"Bitcoin has been recognized for legal and tax purposes in Germany, making it the first country to take an official stance on the status of using the online currency as money. Berlin has acknowledged the virtual tender as a 'currency unit' and 'private money', according to German newspaper Die Welt..."

Wed, 2013-11-27 04:00

#7

wage zombie

Bitcoin now at $1,000 with more restaurants and bars in Vancouver accepting it every day.

Thu, 2014-03-06 11:50

#8

onlinediscountanvils

Newsweek: [url=http://mag.newsweek.com/2014/03/14/bitcoin-satoshi-nakamoto.html]The Face Behind Bitcoin[/url]

Thu, 2014-03-06 12:03

#9

Caissa

The CEO of a virtual currency exchange was found dead near her home in Singapore.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/bitcoin-exchange-first-meta-ceo-autumn-radtke-found-dead-1.2562077

Thu, 2014-03-06 17:06

#10

genstrike

Libertarians: We believe that money needs to be based on the gold standard, otherwise it's just made-up fiat currency. That's why we put all our money into bitcoins

Thu, 2014-03-06 20:38

#11

wage zombie

Bitcoin is for more than Libertarians.

Thu, 2014-03-06 22:41

#12

onlinediscountanvils

It's also for Magic: The Gathering enthusiasts.

Thu, 2014-03-06 23:38

#13

genstrike

Not just libertarians. Also drug dealers, child pornographers, money launderers, and a special kind of morons who would invest thousands of dollars something called Magic: The Gathering Online Exchange and then wonder why they lost all their money.

Thu, 2014-03-06 23:43

#14

radiorahim radiorahim's picture

radiorahim's picture

Software freedom activist Richard Stallman on Bitcoin.

Quote:

Bubbles can happen in bitcoin just as they can happen in housing, or in tulips, or anything that people speculate in. Bubbles can happen, and that’s nothing special or different. Is bitcoin a miracle? I’m not sure what that would mean – there are good and bad things about bitcoin. One good thing about bitcoin is, you can send money to someone without getting the permission of a payment company. So for instance, if you want to support WikiLeaks – which is very good thing, and which the US government doesn’t want to let people support – and has used extrajudicial means to chase off the Internet partially – well, with bitcoin you can do it.

On the other hand, there is a potential problem with bitcoin, which is, it might get used for tax evasion. I’m not in favor of tax evasion, but we have to realize that the biggest and most harmful cases of tax evasion are lawful. Governments don’t dare make businesses pay the sort of taxes that they ought to and they wouldn’t dare make rich people pay the taxes that they ought to. And thus, if we really want to put an end to tax dodging, we really need to change the tax laws so that businesses can’t offshore their profits. Now, we’re speaking from London, and as we know, there were big protests against the offshoring of profits that the UK government doesn’t have the courage to stop.

Thu, 2014-03-06 23:57

#15

wage zombie

genstrike wrote:

Not just libertarians. Also drug dealers, child pornographers, money launderers, and a special kind of morons who would invest thousands of dollars something called Magic: The Gathering Online Exchange and then wonder why they lost all their money.

Disappointing to hear this kind of slagging from you. You sound like Vic Toews. Drug dealers and child pornographers!

Fri, 2014-03-07 02:42

#16

Bacchus

Actually its true, places like Silk Road loved them and Drugs and Porn and even oher worse dealings used them

Fri, 2014-03-07 03:46

#17

wage zombie

Yeah but all those things use cash too.

What about Mazacoin?

Quote:

As a Crypto-Currency, MazaCoin is uniquely qualified to hold and preserve the wealth of a sovereign nation. The forward looking and courageous decision of the Traditional Lakota Nation to adopt a Crypto-Coin as their national currency will pave the way for other countries in the world to abandon out-dated and dysfunctional forms of fiat currency. MazaCoin will create an economic foundation upon which the Traditional Lakota Nation can build lasting wealth and prosperity for their people. And MazaCoin will take it's place in the world of Crypto-Currency as a solid Alt Coin backed by the unique legacy of an ancient culture and nation. MazaCoin is another historical first in the grand renaissance of money that is the Crypto-Currency revolution. The entire world will benefit from MazaCoin, and all are welcome to join our community.

Fri, 2014-03-07 17:40

#18

wage zombie

I'd also like to mention, when it comes to money laundering, Bitcoin doesn't really enable that.

Mostly I think people just don't have much understanding of the technology.

Fri, 2014-03-07 22:48

#19

Red Winnipeg

wage zombie wrote:

Mostly I think people just don't have much understanding of the technology.

That's true. I think it's also true that if people feel they can't control how technology is used by individuals (or subpopulations of individuals), many of them get nervous.

Sat, 2014-03-08 20:35

#20

wage zombie

I don't think there's much of an understanding of what a game changer bitcoin is. And if there's any political philosophy I'd associate with it, it is anarchism.

But this isn't just some libertarian fad. The value of bitcoin isn't the speculative number on an exchange, it is in the code. It is about the technology.

Tomorrow’s Apps Will Come From Brilliant (And Risky) Bitcoin Code

I'm happy to to give my take on any questions babblers have about bitcoin, but have assumed by the general hostility of some responses that people aren't really interested.

I wouldn't be interested in having a conversation about investing in gold & silver bars. It's too bad that's how people understand bitcoin.

Between Vancouver and Burnaby there are at least a dozen restaurants that accept bitcoin now. http://coinmap.org/

Wed, 2014-03-12 00:32

#21

genstrike

All right, lets look at the three purposes of money here.

1. Money as a medium of exchange. Bitcoin does this well for some people - drug dealers and other unsavoury types who need to transfer large sums of money discretely. For the rest of us, it kind of sucks because we can't exchange it at very many places. On a weekly basis, I need to exchange money for goods at places other than those dozen restaurants in Vancouver.

2. Money as a store of value. Bitcoin fails at this because it's too volatile. And this is even before we take into account people storing their value in bitcoins and then storing those bitcoins in reliable places such as Magic: the Gathering Online Exchange without the pesky big-brother government throwing up a bunch of red tape and regulations like deposit insurance.

3. Money as a measure of value. Again, Bitcoin fails at this because it's too volatile. Were I selling stuff, I wouldn't price things in bitcoins because it's so volatile that I'll have to go around changing the pricetags on everything. I'm guessing that those restaurants in Vancouver that accept bitcoin probably do their prices in $CAD and simply look up the bitcoin exchange rate of the day if someone happens to come in wanting to buy a sandwich with bitcoins.

Anyways, since you said you're answering questions about Bitcoin, I have one. You say that the value of bitcoin "isn't the speculative number on an exchange, it is in the code. It is about the technology."

So, here's a graph of the value of bitcoin and trading volumes over the past six months: http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/bitstampUSD#rg180ztgSzm1g10zm2g25zv

If the value is in the code, why did the value of a bitcoing go from $100 to over $1100 to $600 in just six months? What changed in the code and the technology to make bitcoin worth 11x as much, then lose half that value, over a period of six months?

And, why does that chart look suspiciously like the value is being driven by speculation, with big changes in value largely coinciding with high-volume days?

Wed, 2014-03-12 03:03

#22

wage zombie

No doubt the value has been driven by speculation, as well as events such as exchanges going under and government regulroy bodies commenting (and the resultant speculation--this happens with national currencies too). For the geeks, the speculative aspect is viewed as, at best, an unsavoury side effect which is at least driving adoption for now.

Yes, as more people have started hearing about it, there have been waves of speculators. That's what tends to happens when people get the impression they know about "the next big thing". I suppose that's what makes it easy to criticize--that all it is is hype about being the next big thing. But it's not the speculators and libertarians who are building the code. It's geeks.

I don't think volatility will be an issue long term. Other things may be, but volatility will not. The volatility is there because nobody really knows what will happen with it.

You are right that many venues that do take bitcoin convert to CAD right after the transaction. There are a bunch of tools that make this pretty easy. But I think most businesses that do accept bitcoin as payment keep some amount of it.

Your options to purchase locally with bitcoin are limited. It looks like only the mattress chain Best Sleep Centre is taking it in Winnipeg. ETA: Santa Lucia Pizza and Plato's Cave also accept it.

I do know of a grocery store that accepts it.

At one point businesses didn't take interac. Then it became available, and now everybody takes interac. That there are no businesses near you that accept bitcoin as payment isn't a very hard problem to solve.

Thu, 2014-08-14 20:26

#23

Rev Pesky

wage zombie wrote:

...At one point businesses didn't take interac. Then it became available, and now everybody takes interac. That there are no businesses near you that accept bitcoin as payment isn't a very hard problem to solve.

Interac was not a new currency. It was the same old currency being moved in a new way. You want Bitcoin to be stable...tie it's value to an existing currency.