The Fourth Kind

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The Fourth Kind


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The Fourth Kind(Spoiler Alert)

Theatrical release poster



The Fourth Kind is a 2009 American science-fiction thriller film, starring Milla Jovovich, Charlotte Milchard, Elias Koteas, Will Patton, and Mia McKenna-Bruce. The title is derived from the expansion of J. Allen Hynek's classification of close encounters with aliens, in which the fourth kind denotes alien abductions.

The film purports to be based on actual events occurring in Nome, Alaska in 2000, in which psychologist Dr. Abigail "Abbey" Tyler uses hypnosis to uncover memories from her patients of alien abduction, and finds evidence suggesting that she may have been abducted as well. The film has two components—dramatization, in which professional actors portray the individuals involved, and video footage purporting to show the actual victims undergoing hypnosis. (At some points in the film, the actual and dramatized footage is presented alongside each other in split-screen.) Throughout the film, Abbey is shown being interviewed on television at some point years after the events of 2000.

The film was a box office success, earning US$47.46 million worldwide, from an estimated $10 million budget.[2]


Spectrum wrote: I mean let's say that if that extraterrestrial intelligence did not want you to identify the encounter, how would they mask it? In our everyday psychological make up, maybe, to have it appear that we were dreaming, and they supplied the "facets of imagery" to mask the experience? The face of the extraterrestrial while it's eyes may appear yellow may refer the experience to have an image of a bird(an owl let's say) superimposed over that experience to have the physical interaction falsified.

You might of recognized what I am saying here by recognizing some correlation to the movie mentioned in the title. At the time I made the statement I did not know about that particular incident, so it came as somewhat as a shock. Who knows maybe you've had such dreams too?:)

Just thought it interesting. Any thoughts on attempts to subvert the way people protect themselves when facing psychological situations that just are to much for them. Is this a thing in psychology in which this can be be used subvertly to erase the experience of programming?

Other kinds of movies come to mind? SALT? Others you might be able to think of.

Spectrum Spectrum's picture

Honey bee pheromones

The bees begin to build the comb from the top of each section. When filled with honey, the bees seal the cells with wax.


Nasonov pheromone

This pheromone is emitted by the worker bees and used for orientation.


Thanks, Spectrum. Will have to see this one. Very interesting topic. And I like Milla's movies, too.

I didn't realize it but apparently the other new one, Battle Los Angeles, is based loosely on real events that took place in 1942.

[url=]'Battle: Los Angeles' Based on a Real-Life UFO Attack (Maybe)[/url]

The Military supposedly fired 1500 artillery rounds at the thing. Nothing.



If you have not seen the movie you might not want to read what I wrote.


I watched the movie... very good, makes you think if it's real or not..


Unfortunately, the whole story is a hokes. The movie studio made it all up, even the news stories. None of it happened, it's just another horror story, but a good one.


trippie wrote:
Unfortunately, the whole story is a hokes

Are you referring to Battle: L.A., Fourth Kind, or the 9/11 Commission Cover-up?

Spectrum Spectrum's picture

Sucked in by all the TV and studio programming?:) Posssible:) Lets move past this and ask the question about a defensive mechansism that could exist in our makeup. Hypnosis as an accurate tool to draw out the truth?

I am wondering if Dr abigail tyler exists or not? And if they are real Can anyone link me so I can read up on them? Points go to best link or best debunking.Are the Nome, Alaska abductions from the movie The Fourth Kind based on anything real


About 30 minutes into the movie, it’s pretty doggoned obvious that the film is complete bunk. The so-called “archive footage” is directed with a purpose, often showing things that would have never been allowed to be included in a feature film, especially a purported docudrama. By the ending of the movie, it’s even more obvious that all this footage is faked with digital effects and godawful sound manipulation"THE FOURTH KIND" Movie Review by Kevin Carr.

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Mainstream scientists reject claims that the phenomenon literally occurs as reported. However, there is little doubt that many apparently stable persons who report alien abductions believe their experiences were real.[8] As reported in the Harvard University Gazette in 1992, Dr. John Edward Mack investigated over 800 claimed abductees, and "spent countless therapeutic hours with these individuals only to find that what struck him was the 'ordinariness' of the population, including a restaurant owner, several secretaries, a prison guard, college students, a university administrator, and several homemakers ... 'The majority of abductees do not appear to be deluded, confabulating, lying, self-dramatizing, or suffering from a clear mental illness,' he maintained." [9] "While psychopathology is indicated in some isolated alien abduction cases," Stanley Krippner et al. confirmed, "assessment by both clinical examination and standardized tests has shown that, as a group, abduction experients [sic?] are not different from the general population in term of psychopathology prevalence."[10] Other experts who have argued that abductees' mental health is no better or worse than average include psychologists John Wilson and Rima Laibow, and psychotherapist David Gotlib.[11]

Alien abduction


@ Fidel


I'm actually talking about the alien from the 7th dimension, Rush Limbaugh..;)


trippie wrote:

@ Fidel I'm actually talking about the alien from the 7th dimension, Rush Limbaugh..;)

How can you know for sure? We're talking about a country that became a national security state, and some say a military dictatorship in 1947, the same year of the Roswell incident. A number of former astronauts and US Military officials, former politicians etc have stated publicly that the incident at Roswell was real, and that the US Military's original statement to news reporters about a crashed UFO is the truth. And there have been a number of mysterious deaths surrounding US Military and other government officials since the Roswell incident beginning with the first US Secretary of Defense [url=]James Forrestal[/url].

We're talking about the most secretive governments in world history next door to us. It's said that the US Military's secrecy extends to 36 levels above top secret and largest defense contractors in the private sector operating similarly.

Skeptics suggest that because the atomic bomb was not kept secret from Asian countries that this is proof the US and other governments could not possibly keep something like knowledge of extraterrestrials from the public. In fact, they have kept other military secrets from the public for decades through the cold war period after 1945. And there are examples.

However, they have not kept UFOs a secret from the public. Millions of people around the world have seen them, filmed and photographed them. There exists other physical evidence including RADAR recordings to corroborate eye witness sightings. And yet the most secretive governments in history continue to avoid public disclosure concerning everything from trillions of US taxpayer dollars unaccounted for to conspicuously witholding government files on UFO reports while other western countries publish their's for the public record.

For 60 years they have denied any and all knowledge of UFOs to the point where it began to look like they were going too far out of their way to deny the existence of UFOs. Why not say that they just don't know? Would it be a sign of weakness, that the most expensive military and largest government bureaucracy in world history is fallible and that they have no idea what might people think they might be seeing other than the usual swamp gas and weather balloons apparently defying laws of physics? They hide behind multiple layers of secrecy and officially deny it all. Some of them have come forward after leaving the Military while a few have been blowing the whistle while still on the public payroll.

How can you know ?

sknguy II

I don't know how memories might be retreived if they had been physically erased, or blocked from being registered? These guys are doing some interesting memory research.



He has to be an alien, how else can he (it) make people like him (it).


You know I wish I know what was up with UFO and what not, but it's a subject I never really paid much attention to. Though the movie The Fourth Kind was very enjoyable.



I wouldn't believe everything the capitalists or Christian fundamentalists tell us about UFOs. If we listen to them for very long, we end up believing that in all of the universe, we're it. They don't believe in evolution. They want us to believe that mankind is the grand sum product of evolution in the entire galaxy and even the universe. Fundies like Pat Robertson will tell you that belief in UFOs is silly and the work of the devil etc. He's a wacko.

And I think belief in UFOs polls consistently higher among Americans than any of the cosmetic leaders propped up by the billionaire class and lunatic right wing fringe in that country.

Spectrum Spectrum's picture

Again artistically the creative way in which one may embed the story according to the way in which we see memory exposing itself,  as in Homer's case,  the writers obviously show where what Homer believed and what actually happened was representative of a deeper need to look at what was underlying the everyday life of Homer the night before.


Eternal Moonshine of the Simpson Mind

Homer now considers his life to be worthless and decides to commit suicide by jumping off a bridge. While falling, Homer's life flashes before his eyes, and he sees the full memory of the previous night.


In this sense then metaphorically we can draw comparisons so why would we not protect our-self from what is alien in comprehension and being subjected too, was to find something that is easier to cope with in something that we know is rational?

Spectrum Spectrum's picture

sknguy II wrote:

I don't know how memories might be retreived if they had been physically erased, or blocked from being registered? These guys are doing some interesting memory research.

Memory is an interesting subject to me as well so thanks for the link. Your article reference revealed a name I had come across before.


Joseph E. LeDoux Neuroscientist, New York University; Author, The Synaptic Self Like many scientists in the field of memory, I used to think that a memory is something stored in the brain and then accessed when used. Then, in 2000, a researcher in my lab, Karim Nader, did an experiment that convinced me, and many others, that our usual way of thinking was wrong. In a nutshell, what Karim showed was that each time a memory is used, it has to be restored as a new memory in order to be accessible later. The old memory is either not there or is inaccessible. In short, your memory about something is only as good as your last memory about it. This is why people who witness crimes testify about what they read in the paper rather than what they witnessed. Research on this topic, called reconsolidation, has become the basis of a possible treatment for post-traumatic stress disorder, drug addiction, and any other disorder that is based on learning.


The way in which we view memories explains to a degree why images retrieved through hypnotic regression was only as good as the last memory of the trauma that was experienced, so "they" were able to cloak the traumatic experience with imaging, or,  the mind chooses how one might see the aliens in a way that is modernized to present day experience?

Psychology professor Karim Nader is helping sufferers of post-traumatic stress disorder lessen debilitating symptoms—and in some cases, regain a normal life.Owen Egan See also: The Trauma Tamer


IC: Why is this research so important?

Karim Nader: There are a lot of implications. All psychopathological disorders, such as PTSD, epilepsy, obsessive compulsive disorders, or addiction—all these things have to do with your brain getting rewired in a way that is malfunctioning. Theoretically, we may be able to treat a lot of these psychopathologies. If you could block the re-storage of the circuit that causes the obsessive compulsion, then you might be able to reset a person to a level where they aren’t so obsessive. Or perhaps you can reset the circuit that has undergone epilepsy repeatedly so that you can increase the threshold for seizures. And there is some killer data showing that it’s possible to block the reconsolidation of drug cravings.

The other reason why I think it is so striking is that it is so contrary to what has been the accepted view of memory for so long in the mainstream. My research caused everybody in the field to stop, turn around and go, “Whoa, where’d that come from?” Nobody’s really working on this issue, and the only reason I came up with this is because I wasn’t trained in memory. [Nader was originally researching fear.] It really caused a fundamental reconceptualization of a very basic and dogmatic field in neuroscience, which is very exciting. It is the first time in 100 years that people are starting to come up with new models of memory at the physiological level.

So the movie is fictional yet can we see where the artist in writing presents the idea of how memory hides a traumatic experience in the Fourth Kind. Is this a truthful representation according to the way in which memory becomes capable of seeing one thing presently,  this becomes a representation process of the necessary truth uncovering where hypnotherapy allows a deeper look into the dynamics of what was traumatic.

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If you were a storyteller and were to relay the truth as an architectural structure of the youth growing up,  how would such a story be written? So to me it is important for one to realize the language at a deeper level is representative of the true experience.


So again I would point to one trained. How Jean Shinoda Bolen, M.D used a story to reveal the struggle of traumatic experience hidden in the language of myth.

Richards Wagners's Ring of Nibelung Jean Shinoda Bolen, M.D. Ring of Ring of PowerPower was interesting.

Strange that we could have seen A Jungian Understanding of the Wagners Ring cycle, portrayed in today's world and how could have this been accomplished. But by re-introducing a fictional story and embedding it with the archetypal structures of what Jean Shinoda Bolen called, "The Abandon Child, The Authoritarian Father, and the Disempowered Feminine." My wording

So with her background she was able to artistic help embeds the circumstance of dysfunction in a way that an artist may interpret an impression of the real world? It revealed the nature of the dysfunction from traumatic experience. So you get a jest now of why the idea of a deeper truth existing in the nature of people who are experiencing these things,  one would have to wonder about hypnotherapy as to revealing the true nature of the experience.

While deeply subjective, this whole nature of experience requires consistency by way of a measure which allows us to see that there is a science in nature of tools to cover subjective realities and alien experiences?


@ Fidel


Oh, I believe there are other living creatures in the Universe. I just don't have an opinion on them other then I have no clue as to what is happening on that front.


If you say there have been sightings, then by all means there have been sightings. It's just that it's a subject that I never developed an interest in.


Maybe some time down the line, maybe?


Oh I guess so. So what shall we discuss then?


Did you watch the movie yet?


Spectrum wrote:
Just thought it interesting. Any thoughts on attempts to subvert the way people protect themselves when facing psychological situations that just are to much for them. Is this a thing in psychology in which this can be be used subvertly to erase the experience of programming?

Former psychiatrist [url= Mack[/url] said that he observed PTSD in Vietnam war veterans. Apparently a brief audio re-enactment of a stressful memory was enough to cause emotional and physical reactions in his patients.

"In case after case after case, I've been impressed with the consistency of the story, the sincerity with which people tell their stories, the power of the feelings connected with this, the self-doubt," John Mack, a psychiatrist at Harvard University who has worked with people who claim to have been abducted, told PBS' NOVA. " I worked with people over hundreds and hundreds of hours, and have done as careful a job as I could to listen, to sift out, to consider alternative explanations. And none have come forward. No one has found an alternative explanation in a single abduction case."

Spectrum wrote:
Other kinds of movies come to mind? SALT? Others you might be able to think of.

I haven't seen that one. Is that SALT with Angelina Jolie released 2010?

[url=]Fire in the Sky[/url] about the 1975 abduction of Arizona logger Travis Walton. I saw that movie years ago, and it creeped me out a little. It was like the beings that took him had no regard for him whatsoever. There was one scene in the movie which I thought was quite disturbing. I really hope it never happened.

I've read some wild abductee stories before in various Canadian and American accounts. A few of them describe visitors that would be the products of our worst nightmares if only in appearance. I dunno. I think I'll keep one eye open at night from now on. bwbwbwa

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Fidel wrote:
Former psychiatrist John Mack said that he observed PTSD in Vietnam war veterans. Apparently a brief audio re-enactment of a stressful memory was enough to cause emotional and physical reactions in his patients.

Going through some of my books this afternoon just looking.....John Mack book came to view and then put it back quickly. Then with you mentioning, I went back to have a look for it. Left of his contents page he dedicates it to Budd Hopkins. I am sure you must of seen this introduction to hypnotherapy in the assessment of these memories he was able to withdraw?

Part of the education you might say is what memory is,  as I looked to understand it's implications. How the impact of such memories can be given strength by such emotional impacts. You point that out(to cause emotional and physical reactions), but if the memories are only as good as the last one you have, it is amazing that we can weed through "the coverings" you might say to reveal a bottom layer to the experience and find the source of it. The mind chooses to represent that memory of the circumstance in it's own way, as if the ideal imaging of experience can be used to mask the memory of such encounters. How one deals with it. This is the case not just with this issue.

Again this is all subjective valuations and as a believer in the depth of us as souls, it amazes me,  that such limits have been tracked to reveal even more layers to the human being. Yet, such definitions are a boundary condition of the circumstance of the lives we live now. Science does not look on it to kindly, yet know well not to comment to loudly on the fragility of the structure of consciousness for some individuals.

Why I attribute more measure to the Emotional IQ then the Abstractness of the IQ intelligence factor. To detach ourselves into the abstractness of the mind is to loose sight of the emotive part of our being. This is a important factor in memory development as I understood it.

This is a subject field with which many avenues which can be opened,  yet too to ask,  how much credibility should such a exercise be given to Hypnotherapy that we would discount all "other facets of the fragility of the human mind?" The consequences some have found themselves in, according to physiological and chemical conditions which allow mental aberrations shows signs of detachment from reality. Of course such abductions do not seem real to them, because it is subjective.

Devils Tower

So good question as to where to go from here. I tried looking for a scale determination as to encounters of various kinds. 1st , 2nd third or fourth?


Spectrum wrote:
The mind chooses to represent that memory of the circumstance in it's own way, as if the ideal imaging of experience can be used to mask the memory of such encounters. How one deals with it. This is the case not just with this issue.

Again this is all subjective valuations and as a believer in the depth of us as souls, it amazes me, that such limits have been tracked to reveal even more layers to the human being. Yet, such definitions are a boundary condition of the circumstance of the lives we live now. Science does not look on it to kindly, yet know well not to comment to loudly on the fragility of the structure of consciousness for some individuals.

Well I can only speculate. I think science has become a pursuit of funding, and bureaucrats, politicians and corporatists are the ones deciding what scientific inquiries will be funded. I know it's said that they tend to use a utilitarian approach to deciding these things, but people like Ralph Nader are saying that not even the narrow utilitarian rule of thumb is followed in science today. It's about profit,  an even narrower pursuit.

What puzzles me about the abduction scenario described by Mack et al is how consistent the memories are with patients describing the same beings doing the abducting and poking and prodding. Apparently the experiences described are independent of ethnicity, specific religious influences and regardless of geography.

The 20 missing people in Nome Alaska with nine still missing could plausibly be due to alcohol and people wandering from town. I don't know. But in another example of missing people, the USAF has lost hundreds of ace pilots from the 1950s forward. Many of them were previously involved in dogfights over Eastern Europe and Asia with crack Mig pilots and survived only to return to the continental USA where they apparently lost against some force or another. In one instance, about 20 USAF pilots were lost in the same day. And I don't think they'd been drinking and flying. Stacks and stacks of reports of these kinds have been shut away from the public and declassified over the years.

Some of former pilots and retired military officials have spoken out on their death beds saying they saw things while in service. Why would they be so fearful of whistleblowing in the most democratic nation on earth? We can only surmise that the USsA is actually not very democratic, and that there are very few options for whistleblowers in general. In fact, some have described an elaborate bureaucratic system in the US Military and Government that is based on a "need to know" hierarchy of security clearance. US Military officers have described being in fear of breaching this security. Why? Because there are shoot to kill orders in place. There are people in US Government who simply don't want to know or be privy to certain kinds of information for fear of their safety and that of their families.

I think they are hiding something. And if it's what we think it is, then it's the biggest story in history. It's an ongoing cosmic Watergate of stellar proportions.

Spectrum Spectrum's picture

Cover of the Voyager Golden Record

Cover of the Voyager Golden Record Explanation of the Voyager Golden Record cover by NASA

The point is if you have been doing this awhile in terms of bringing information out from those deeper layers,  some of it should be useful in terms of identifying methods for communication right now.

Alien language is a generic term used to describe a possible language originating from a hypothetical alien species. The study of such a hypothetical language has been termed xenolinguistics, although alternative terminology such as exolinguistics has found its way into use through the medium of science fiction.

Communication with Extraterrestrial Intelligence (CETI) is a branch of SETI research that focuses on composing and deciphering messages that could theoretically be understood by another technological civilization. The best-known CETI experiment was the 1974 Arecibo message composed by Frank Drake and Carl Sagan.

CETI research has focused on four broad areas: mathematical languages, pictorial systems such as the Arecibo message, algorithmic communication systems (ACETI) and computational approaches to detecting and deciphering 'natural' language communication.

The aliens would already know we are pictorial creatures who see experience in ways of visualizations and emotion so it would be most appropriate that layers above would be laced with imaging that is purposely placed in the mind for the latest retrieval of memory,  that is contained within the world of it's own definitions? If that last memory is non-stressful, how light and memorable the experience? So aductees go on with their life oblivious to the circumstances of the abduction?


[url= abduction is the theme of art exhibit[/url]

It's official. Gel and hair spray aren't the most hair-raising things you'll find in Balance Hair Salon in Jersey City.

Tomorrow, the salon, which doubles as an art gallery, will host the UFO Abductee Experiences Exhibition featuring paintings by self-proclaimed "artist-abductee" David Huggins of Hoboken.

Huggins said when he was 8 years old, he encountered a mysterious creature he called "little Big Foot."

Frightened, Huggins said he ran and told his mother what he had seen. Unsurprisingly, she did not believe him.

Huggins said aliens have continued to make contact with him throughout his life. After each encounter, however, Huggins experiences "partial amnesia."

That's pretty weird. Huggins says "the grays" are interested in mating with people who are musical, literary and artistic. It must be why Tony Clement is taking guitar lessons - he's found a group of people who actually enjoy his company? Apparently they aren't all that interested in scientists, engineers or planet earth's great political minds by what I've read in these kinds of accounts. And that's too bad for them. They don't know what they are missing. Or perhaps they do.

In 'True Canadian UFO Stories' by J.R. Colombo, one person says that the grays are just one of dozens of different species visiting earth.  And here's the kicker. The grays are us! Apparently they've come to retake possession of the earth. All species harmless. The overall outcome of these visitations and contacts, one author who has it on authority says, will be good.

Spectrum Spectrum's picture

Fidel wrote:
That's pretty weird. Huggins says "the grays" are interested in mating with people who are musical, literary and artistic. It must be why Tony Clement is taking guitar lessons - he's found a group of people who actually enjoy his company?

LOL....that was funny:)

The beehive mentality was more then a demonstration of socialist political system or an economic idea about the way social systems work, so  thought I would add Pheromones for a reason. Smells, can be a strong reminder of experiences. The Beehive hexagonal shapes for housing seem appropriate for selective types of worker Bees too?

So you try and breed out "the nature of the gray's mentality as workers" who respond to whom? So their is a hierarchical function within that society of aliens(maybe some debate about a matriarchal link on links?) as well you see?:) So who thought to breed this out of them?

Who knew the grays would be "a symptom of a capitalistic system that existed years before" and became a struggle within the evolutionary discourse of a species gone wrong now needs to right itself?:) So a lesson learnt about the formalizations within society of developmental responses not only to systemic function within society as evolutionary biological expressions, but of neurological functions manifest as brain visualizations house in the forefront of the brain as we use the web:) Got to explain the big heads?:)


Spectrum wrote:
So you try and breed out "the nature of the gray's mentality as workers" who respond to whom? So their is a hierarchical function within that society of aliens(maybe some debate about a matriarchal link on links?) as well you see?:) So who thought to breed this out of them?

I know I said before that they are us. But here's another kicker. The answer to your question above, according to Dr. Steven Greer,  is "us" again.  He says "the greys" are not alien, not extraterrestrial biological entities at all. They are homemade nano-bio-machines apparently created by our own elites in majestic. Greer says they are preparing us for the big lie.




I think Greer says, or it's actually his opinion based on some of the disclosure witnesses/whistleblowers, that the big lie will be US Government claiming that aliens are going represent a threat to the planet sometime in the near future. Apparently Werner von Braun told a school teacher in the 1970s, or was it 60s? - that there would be several lies in all. According to that person's discussion with von Braun, the lies would come in this order:

1. The Soviets(it's the 1970s and cold war raging onward) want to take over the world and enslave everone and their dogs on the planet under a communist dictatorship.

2. The next lie would be that the communist countries want to weaponize space, and therefore America has no alternative but to win the phony race to weaponize satellite space and all other space outside those orbits or some such.

3. Terrorism would be the next false threat

4. And when the terrorist bogeyman story becomes too flimsy to prop-up in the minds of the sheeple at some point, then the alien threat would be trotted out for all the world to become terrified by.

The polarized good versus evil meme fits perfectly with military-industrialism and authoritarian rule by the elite few in general. Whatever the claim is, they have to find new enemies for Americans and then the world to live in fear of. People then demand more security as per cold war era through today and into the future and thusly enabling and re-invigorating the National Security state except world-wide in scope at some point.

Or at least, this is what the Disclosure Project people have concluded.

ETA: Oh yeah, about the big lie. It will be a hoaxed alien encounter or light show in the sky of some sort. Maybe a 9/11 style attack on a scale of the sci-fi movie Independence Day with man-made ufos over the White House and destroying it with some kind of far out pulse weapon or something like that. I dunno.

Spectrum Spectrum's picture

Fidel wrote:
They are homemade nano-bio-machines apparently created by our own elites in majestic. Greer says they are preparing us for the big lie.

I wonder what that lie might be Fidel. What do you speculate it to be? Why such elaborate "seductions of the populace" to such treatments?

Fidel wrote:
created by our own elites in majestic.

Again you tweaked my memory knowing of course about  Whitley Strieber.


Purported Harry Truman letter authorizing "Majestic 12"


Maybe President Obama will come clean then by revealing the facts of Majestic 12?

It would be a break through indeed if we understood the manipulative control of people could have amounted from such a feature of a sector of our population that we would ask why, as much at it might be speculation Fidel from your side, we had always been dealing with human beings? :)

Mind control (also known as brainwashing, coercive persuasion, mind abuse, thought control, or thought reform) refers to a process in which a group or individual "systematically uses unethically manipulative methods to persuade others to conform to the wishes of the manipulator(s), often to the detriment of the person being manipulated".[1] The term has been applied to any tactic, psychological or otherwise, which can be seen as subverting an individual's sense of control over their own thinking, behavior, emotions or decision making.

Spectrum Spectrum's picture

More in above comment.


Spectrum wrote:

So do you believe that extraterrestrials exist?

Uh! Hard question. Hard answer: I don't know. After weighing the evidence in one hand and US Government propensity for deliberately deceiving the world by the other, I think it's highly likely that they do exist and are visiting earth. I must admit to wanting to believe. I would like more hard evidence, and I think the US Government and all governments including the Russians know more about UFOs than they've let on.

I think it's possible that people have had close encounters with genuine ETs. And I think those people are then targeted by the majestic people for another kind of close encounter in order to terrorize the genuine abductee.

I think it's possible that people see disembodied spirits or ghosts which are not alien in origin but inter-dimensional in nature.

I think it's possible that genuine ETs are coming here inter-dimensionally and not necessarily travelling millions of light years.

I think it's possible that the US Government guys and Ozzies cloned "the greys" using genetic material retrieved from ETs in their capture sometime around 1951 or so.

I think the Philadelphia experiment actually took place at Rhode Island. And I think there are a number of high security military facilities other than S4, Area 51 and Andrews AFB.

Of course, I can't be sure of any of this. I'm just another one they keep in the dark and feed sheep dip.

Spectrum Spectrum's picture

So do you believe that extraterrestrials exist?


Fidel wrote:
1. The Soviets(it's the 1970s and cold war raging onward) want to take over the world and enslave everone and their dogs on the planet under a communist dictatorship........................................................

Some of the older folk can attest I am sure to this mentality, and to the idea of a weapons leading to a time line much as your saying. So we live terrorism,  and the battle against?  We are caught up in that,  while we see a revolution of a kind of the younger generation directing the roles of governments in the middle east.

Some would say we have the agendas tied up in the revolution of communication and the control of it in our own countries? But suspect of democracies lead the way to a democratic society?:)

Dr. Steven M. Greer (Disclosure Project / CSETI / SEAS Power) @ the Conscious Life Expo-11 February 2007


Steven M. Greer (June 28, 1955) is an American physician, ufologist, author, lecturer and founder of the Orion Project and The Disclosure Project

On another note...

Space travel is indeed a interesting subject as I had detailed previously in conversations and this is not the same Orion Project I think Greer is contending,  but something much different?

Interesting way to blur the lines of reality, yet interesting that such a collection of the brightest minds had gathered back then, that such a name as "Stanislav Ulam" could be introduced. For those not familiar,  look up the ULam spiral and the Riemann Hypothesis.

This fits with the ideas of the first nukes, and to the idea of a "chain reaction?" (911?)


Thanks Spectrum. I did not know about the first Project Orion. Very interesting.


Susan Clancy's [url=]Abd... How People Come to Believe They Were Kidnapped by Aliens[/url] A book review by Canadian Stanton Friedman, 2006

Friedman demolishes, dismantles, debunks and destroys Dr. Clancy's research into false memories explanation for sleep paralysis theory of the abduction phenomenon.


[url=]Ex-Defense Minister speaks about advanced alien energy technology for greening the planet avoided by our governments[/url]

However, the generous news reporter decides to maintain his credibility as a corporate media newz drone regurgitating the usual healthy skepticism expected of all modern day inquisitors with this:

And is it possible that, some day, somehow, the aliens might be able to bypass our government's alleged reluctance to go public with its knowledge of our friends out there? Why, indeed, haven't these clever aliens spoken to us directly?

We shouldn't blame Matyszczyk for asking dumb questions like this one. Why would he assume that advanced species would want to interfere in our fledgling planetary democracy? Why does he assume that our best and brightest would even understand technology and ideas that could be millions of years in advance of our own? Maybe it's like former US military officers and other whistleblowers have said all along, that they seem to be interested in nuclear weapons installations and preventing them from being used?

Here's a question to ponder. Why did Charles Darwin sail thousands of miles to spend nearly five years on remote islands in the sea? Was it because he felt the need to interfere with nature? Did he want chimps and birds to have advanced technology from England?

Spectrum Spectrum's picture

Fidel wrote:
Here's a question to ponder. Why did Charles Darwin sail thousands of miles to spend nearly five years on remote islands in the sea? Was it because he felt the need to interfere with nature? Did he want chimps and birds to have advanced technology from England?

Of course we are after the understanding of what lies at the "basis of the reality" we work with? The "Truth of it,"  so how does one approach it? Mathematically and theoretically?  This is a beginning, and part of the evolutionary question as to what is a derivative of nature we know and love:)

Math Will Rock Your World by Neal Goldman

By the time you're reading these words, this very article will exist as a line in Goldman's polytope. And that raises a fundamental question: If long articles full of twists and turns can be reduced to a mathematical essence, what's next? Our businesses -- and, yes, ourselves.

You had to understand Darwin's mentality and his desire to dig deep.?:)

I suppose you are two fathoms deep in mathematics,and if you are, then God help you, for so am I,only with this difference,I stick fast in the mud at the bottom and there I shall remain.Charles Darwin

You hear of the "Psyops operation" to influence political leaders who came over for a visit to Afghanistan?

Yes, if you are smart enough with your news reports and advertising you can subvert not only politicians but the entire populations as well.


Speaking of psyops, apparently Col. John Alexander was a psyops specialist for the US Military.

[url=Ret"> Col. Claims UFOs Are Real...Denies Cover-Up[/url]  "I can assure you the flying saucers, given that they exist, are not constructed by any power on Earth." - Harry Truman

Disclosure is well underway? No cover-up though. Uh-huh?

[url= files: RAF tornado crew spotted UFO over North Sea[/url] "'We were doing 0.8 Mach and it readily overtook us.'' UFO as big as a Hercules C-130 cargo plane

[url=Britain">'s Actual 'X-Files' Released[/url] 

AOL News wrote:
One file, designated DEFE 24/2032 (p10-34), is titled "U.N. Discussions on UFOs." It "contains papers dealing with United Nations discussions on UFOs in 1977-1978 generated by the Foreign & Commonwealth Office and the [Ministry of Defense]."

The document reveals how the Ministry of Defense used its influence to stop the country of Grenada from getting the U.N. to form a special agency to conduct UFO research. Grenada continued its campaign "for a full U.N. debate on UFOs, calling on the U.N. General Assembly to make 1978 'the year of the UFO.'"

This reporter is well aware of the 1978 event. I was the person who produced the entire UFO U.N. presentation for Grenada...

I think we are like indigenous people on islands in the Carribe and shores of America long ago who thought they were alone. Occasionally, though,  we see ships on the horizon and wonder what they might be. They are far off and seem small to the naked eye, like driftwood or debris from a storm perhaps. Not to worry. Busying ourselves with day to day routines is all we can do in the mean time.

Spectrum Spectrum's picture

Fidel wrote:
Occasionally, though,  we see ships on the horizon and wonder what they might be.

It's a weather balloon Fidel.Cool


So, I have a question for you. Is this statement below accurate,  as to your beliefs?


UFO's are real and aliens are not?


Some clever skpetics have asked why the aliens don't send out recovery teams if UFOs have crashed and become stranded on earth in relation to the Roswell and other well known incidents. I think that's a good question. But we have sent probes to the Moon and Mars and sometimes never see them again. Some [url=]rockets carrying satellites have crashed[/url] unceremoniously. Not much left. Because of the cost of retrieval, we abandon the failures most times and make more.

I think that UFOs are real and controlled by intelligent beings. They could even be robots of a sort, as in [url= von Neumman probes[/url]. This is what scientists suggested to Arthur C. Clarke when he was doing research for his sci-fi novel, The Sentinel. They told him that the most efficient way to explore space would be to send out probes controlled by artificial intelligence.

I have no idea really. It could be that the "greys" are AI and self replicating themselves. Perhaps their creators are long extinct. Perhaps not. It could be that these are exploratory ships, and the far away masters will be arriving at some point. Perhaps not. Perhaps the masters themselves began life as artificial AI and achieved human equivalent intelligence long ago and are now what we might consider god-like in their phase of artificial evolution, or something. Or perhaps the masters themselves have evolved to a state beyond the physical and existing as higher frequencies of energy or as light forms. I wish I could write sci-fi like a John Wyndham or an ArthurC. Clarke.

Question: Remember the space creature from the sci-fi story, The Thing. Was the life form assimilating creature the pilot of the UFO buried in ice millenia ago? Or was it just a stowaway?

VO Narration from The Thing wrote:
Who knows what has come from the galaxy? Who knows what lurks in the sky? Beyond God. Watch those around you. For who knows what today, tonight, or tomorrow will bring.


[url=]Lisa Randall speaks with Charlie Rose about string theory[/url] Mathematics is leading physicists into multi-dimensional reality. Will Large Hadron Collider wdetect particles travelling in extra dimensions? Will LHC experiments warp space-time? (4 years ago)

Spectrum Spectrum's picture

Are there Extra Dimensions of Space?


A QGP is formed at the collision point of two relativistically accelerated gold ions in the center of the STAR detector at the relativistic heavy ion collider at the Brookhaven national laboratory.

Some of these issues in relation to the LHC are what I tried to explain to Searosa.


Brookhaven National Laboratory

HOT A computer rendition of 4-trillion-degree Celsius quark-gluon plasma created in a demonstration of what scientists suspect shaped cosmic history.

Here's what has to be considered. There is a calculated energy value to the collision process. You add that up as all the constituents of that process, and what's left is,  so much energy left to be discerned as particulate expressions as beyond that collision point. This may not be truly an accurate portrayal yet it is one that allows perspective to consider the spaces at such microscopic levels for consideration.

The perspective of valuations with regard to the LHC is whether or not there is sufficient energy within the confines of LHC experiments in which to satisfy the questions about extra those dimensions. It seems the parameters of those decisions seem to be sufficient?


Alex Buche-University of Western Ontario / Perimeter Institute

Robert Myers-Perimeter Institute
Aninda Sinha-Perimeter Institute


application/pdf iconQuark Soup: Applied Superstring Theory

It is believed that in the first few microseconds after the Big Bang, our universe was dominated by a strongly interacting phase of nuclear matter at extreme temperatures. An impressive experimental program at the Brookhaven National Laboratory on Long Island has been studying the properties of this nuclear plasma with some rather surprising results. We outline how there may be a deep connection between extra-dimensional gravity of String Theory and the fundamental theories of subatomic particles can solve the mystery of the near-ideal fluid properties of the strongly coupled nuclear plasma.

The QGP has directed attention to a method of expression with regard to that collision point.


First direct observation of jet quenching.


At the recent seminar, the LHC’s dedicated heavy-ion experiment, ALICE, confirmed that QGP behaves like an ideal liquid, a phenomenon earlier observed at the US Brookhaven Laboratory’s RHIC facility. This question was indeed one of the main points of this first phase of data analysis, which also included the analysis of secondary particles produced in the lead-lead collisions. ALICE's results already rule out many of the existing theoretical models describing the physics of heavy-ions.

See: 2010 ion run: completed!

Spectrum Spectrum's picture

Early on looking at spaces, it was a struggle for me to understand how extra dimensions would be explained. It was easy using a coordinated frame of reference as x,y,z, yet,  how much did you have to go toward seeing that rotation around each of those arrows of direction would add greater depth of perception about such spaces?

It's easier if you just draw the picture.

A section of the quintic Calabi–Yau three-fold (3D projection)

In superstring theory the extra dimensions of spacetime are sometimes conjectured to take the form of a 6-dimensional Calabi–Yau manifold, which led to the idea of mirror symmetry.


The benefit of phenomenological approaches in experimental processes to attempt to answer these theoretical points of views.


The first results on supersymmetry from the Large Hadron Collider (LHC) have been analysed by physicists and some are suggesting that the theory may be in trouble. Data from proton collisions in both the Compact Muon Solenoid (CMS) and ATLAS experiments have shown no evidence for supersymmetric particles – or sparticles – that are predicted by this extension to the Standard Model of particle physics. Will the LHC find supersymmetry Kate McAlpine ?

Thank you Tommaso Dorigo


Also see:


Beautiful theory collides with smashing particle data."

Implications of Initial LHC Searches for Supersymmetry"

More SUSY limits"



[url=]Rainbow Eagle speaks[/url] Peace shield,  star people, and the future created by each one of us. Are we standing before a fork in the road? Are we gazing into the precipice?

[url=]UFOs: Generals, Pilots and Government Officials Go on the Record[/url] Leslie Kean, investigative journalist

“At last, a serious and thoughtful book about this controversial subject. Skeptics and true believers will find a treasure trove of insightful and eye opening information. This book is bound to set the gold standard for UFO research.”
—Michio Kaku, Ph.D. Author of Physics of the Impossible and host of Sci Fi Science on the Science Channel

"What if they are Muslims?" - Stephen Colbert, comedian


[url=]2012 Prepare for the Alien Invasion? First Contact?[/url] Dr Carol Rosin, former elementary school teacher, spokesperson for Werner von Braun, and former SDI consultant.(YouTube)

Werner von Braun's list of false threats to US and global security as revealed to Carol Rosin:

1. The Evil empire/Soviet Union

2. rogue nations or "nations of concern" and terrorism

3. asteroids,

and finally

4. the "ET threat"

Carol apparently began speaking publicly about these false concerns in 2000, before 9/11/01.

The ultimate false flag deception coming soon?


[url=Area"> 51: An Uncensored History of America's Top Secret Military Base[/url] Book  release: May 2011 wrote:
Product Description
It is the most famous military installation in the world. And no credible insider has ever divulged the truth about his time inside of it. Until now. This is the first book based on interviews with scientists, pilots, and engineers - 58 in total - who provide an unprecedented look into the mysterious activities of a top-secret base, from the Cold War to today. With a jaw-dropping ending, it proves that facts are often more fantastic than fiction, especially when the distinction is almost impossible to make.



[url= JFK killed because of his interest in aliens? Secret memo shows president demanded UFO files 10 days before death[/url]

An uncovered letter written by John F Kennedy to the head of the CIA shows that the president demanded to be shown highly confidential documents about UFOs 10 days before his assassination. The secret memo is one of two letters written by JFK asking for information about the paranormal on November 12 1963, which have been released by the CIA for the first time.
Author William Lester said the CIA released the documents to him under the Freedom of Information Act after he made a request while researching his new book 'A Celebration of Freedom: JFK and the New Frontier.'

Spectrum Spectrum's picture

 Was JFK shot to stop him discovering the truth about UFOs?

It seems HAARP is getting pretty intrusive into the population base as a conspiracy theorist issue, adding to it's information base?? Maybe the Chem-trails are used to help with signal propagation?

In regards to the Grays, imagine you wanted to make them to appear more human like, with all the inclinations of the tribe, the bee workers, you want them too, at least appear human, how would you go about mastering this.

You know there are going to be a lot of mistakes a long the way so there will be hybrids....what do you do with them? You can't introduce them back into the population so who knows what the "masters of the plan" are doing with them, their culling techniques.....but that's beside the point now that they've master it?

As drones( genetic designed workers to do the work and bidding of of their master designers, like rovers to Mars) in our population, are they unsympathetic creatures working as psychopaths. Ummmm... jut throwing it out there wondering if they had succeeded in creating Sheople?:) And what exactly are their jobs?:)

Should I take Alien Abductions seriously? I mean I could create all kinds of scenarios but it has me wondering if it's just a flight of fancy or whether we are being manipulated as we might be in some corporate sense of the free market?:)

Imagine, "the masters of the plan[real aliens]," Spock like,  trying to destroy the emotive fabrications of human beings,  as if trying to erase the illogical side that destroys good logic?:) Totally abstract beings 'without that human side' and the side that helps with imprint memory?


That's very interesting about HAARP. I had no idea.

I don't know that they would want to create sheople. Why and for what purpose? If they are advanced enough to come here, or send robotic drones to scout the place, then they should be clever enough to create robots to do work for them at home as well as anywhere else.

As some UFOlogists have said, their technology is surely many times more advanced than our own, and they most likely could have enslaved all of us and our dogs by now. And yet it hasn't happened. Unless, of course, you're correct in that our world leaders are controlled to some extent by ETs. We already know they will sign free trade agreements with the worst human rights abusers here in our earthly domain and at the drop of a hat.

I think that scientists summed it up with their various discussions of the Drake equation. An aggressive and war-like civilization would most likely destroy themselves long before they ever achieved a technically advanced stage of development that would allow them to surf the galaxy.

Perhaps they have created "berzerkers", or probes ready to take out planets and whole species should they represent a threat to the galactic scheme of things. Just a wild guess. 

I think some of the recent press releases about former military officers' accounts are interesting. Retired USAF and US Military officers are talking about saucers disabling 10 ICBMs hidden in underground silos. The military had no control of them for days. Another person talks about UFOs caught on video tape and disabling a nuclear-armed test missile travelling 8000 mph. And yet the military continues to claim they are not concerned with UFOs. If the retired officers' claims are true, then obviously there are people in government who will be concerned.

I think UFOs are finishing the task Copernicus first set out to do, which is to reveal that man is not at the centre of the universe. If word gets out it would surely disrupt the pecking order here on the blue planet.

Spectrum Spectrum's picture

Fidel wrote:
I don't know that they would want to create sheople. Why and for what purpose? If they are advanced enough to come here, or send robotic drones to scout the place, then they should be clever enough to create robots to do work for them at home as well as anywhere else.

Think of Hal in 2001: A Space Odyssey

Try as I might it is difficult even in my eyes to be unsympathetic and empathetical to biological designed "mechanical systems"  as I would want to project our own human features into them as well. The Grays are programed computerized systems designed to do the "masters of the plan" work across the Universe?

Sure, I don"t know what to make of it, but it's the same question one can have about UFO's and the alien contact subject.

My interest here was of course a psychological one in terms of how our memories are/were used to cover experiences that our own makeup are but prey to the advancements of a species that is familiar and much more intelligent about our capabilities.

Sure more creative writing here, and speculations.


Okay, interesting. I have to admit I've only ever seen the movies, 2001... and  2010: A Space Odyssey  and not read the books as Clarke suggested we should. Apparently they are a bit more detailed than Kubrick's cinematic interpretation. So eventually, by 3001: The Final Odyssey, a resurrected Dave Bowman and HAL become one, "Halman", and reside in the monolith's computational matrix. And the original 2001 could be several allegories, one of which seems to parallel Homer's Odyssey. I think I get it now. And each of the Odyssey novels takes place in its own parallel universe, which explains why the alien monoliths still exist at the end of 2010. I'll have to read them at some point.

So, could the real aliens have left behind a monolith similarly in order for mankind to leapfrog evolution or perhaps only in terms of accelerating technological advances? Could that be what Roswell was about, leaving behind a few droids and their space craft for us to reverse engineer?

Aeronautical engineer and physicist [url=]Bob Wood[/url] has some very interesting Majestic documents on that web site. [url= says(youtube)[/url] that McDonnell Douglas Corporation studied UFOs for years. They even went so far as to interview a number of eye witnesses ranging from police officers to UFO abductees in order to try to understand the technical capabilities.

Wood goes on to suggest that we're not being visited by many different species but perhaps half a dozen or so. Why the government secrecy? Wood says they've been lying for so long about UFOs that it's likely they are lying to the public about a number of other important issues as well.  US shadow government has a lot to lose with policies for disclosure, accountability and transparency to the public.

Spectrum Spectrum's picture

Hi Fidel,

 You probably recognized Steven Greer in the YouTube link. I have no connection or in support of the views of that presentation. Just have to be a good drawer as to the evidence of, eh?

If one had developed lets say Quantum Computing to new heights, then how would one not consider biological systems developed as drones? A human race evolved to one subservient to the goals and applications of Capitalistic intent? A society held in debt, owing,  for their life's existence. As machines, would we know any better, and as drones, we already do some "bodies bidding?"

A graph of Kardashev scale values during the late 20th century, projected into the early 21st century. Based on data at Kardashev scale.


The Kardashev scale is a method of measuring an advanced civilization's level of technological advancement. The scale is only theoretical and in terms of an actual civilization highly speculative; however, it puts energy consumption of an entire civilization in a cosmic perspective. It was first proposed in 1964 by the Soviet Russian astronomer Nikolai Kardashev. The scale has three designated categories called Type I, II, and III. These are based on the amount of usable energy a civilization has at its disposal, and the degree of space colonization. In general terms, a Type I civilization has achieved mastery of the resources of its home planet, Type II of its solar system, and Type III of its galaxy.[1]

The original and the final draft for this particular scale had energy consumptions ranging so widely from each other, that Kardashev himself revised the scale as to include values between, in hundredths. The human civilization as of 2010 is currently somewhere around 0.72, with calculations suggesting we may attain Type I status in about 100–200 years, Type II status in a few thousand years, and Type III status in about 100,000 to a million years.[2]

Spectrum Spectrum's picture

The Kardashev scale gives some perspective on what type of civilization we are dealing with. Where we are on the scale, yet how is development in terms of the psychology of that species who could ever have the ability to develop such drones to do their work across the universe and skip the aging process?

Or, some other development in terms of rooms that one sits in, that these supposed dreams are  a direct connection to a place with which that civilization works spirituality as a scale for us to move forward too in a evolutionary development within our time?

As a human how could such a civilization exist that the idea of these drones could be devoid of the human nature that we carry as our own emotive intellects. Such a civilization could be devoid of these constructive emotional elements in developing biological machines called Grays. Maybe that is what they are lacking, yet such a spiritual development would say otherwise?

Materialistically evidence has to confirm whether such truth can exist.  Things existing outside our perimeter of views,  needs to shock us into believing that such evidence is possible. Hide it, and it then becomes true that such thing does not exist.

We know what it's like, all the way from the idea of a Frankenstein, Rusty the Tin Man,  to Bicentennial man, culminating in some form of Irobot? Robots hmmm....:)

Consider this we are already sending or drones out into the universe just lacking of scale to energy manipulation, what values can be assigned to perceptive as to the basis of life as constituents of the very fabric that makes this universe as it is? Imagine such a energy perspective about life?

So should we adjust a view of the energy scale to include our own populations as already exceeding a one classification?