The Fourth Kind

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Fidel

Spectrum wrote:
If one had developed lets say Quantum Computing to new heights, then how would one not consider biological systems developed as drones? A human race evolved to one subservient to the goals and applications of Capitalistic intent? A society held in debt, owing, for their life's existence. As machines, would we know any better, and as drones, we already do some "bodies bidding?"

I think that capitalism is but one way way to organize society. And it's a system of economy which increasingly ignores several innate human characteristics in order to focus on one aspect of us, which is self-interest. It's a system of economy that rewards self-interest and greed above all other traits. What it produces, increasingly, are one-dimensional people capable of little more than being consumers and purchasers of goods and services. It distorts not only human nature but the results as well. Socialists have said it's not a very scientific assessment of humans. Capitalism results in unnatural competition and works on the basis of fear. Fear appeals to primitive parts of the brain and over-develops those parts of us which are probably going to be the end of us according to Frank Drake et al. If we continue fooling with nuclear power and weaponry, we increase the risk that we will use them on ourselves and destroy our own habitat over time or perhaps all at once. Capitalism consumes itself in more ways than just a few as is especially evident today.

I think that advanced civilizations out there will have developed better ways to organize and conduct themselves. Capitalism does not work when billionaire investors and "the market" are optimisitic about every part of the world. There has to be some kind of dog-eat-dog competition happening and only some of us rewarded for it. An advanced civilization will have learned to utilize everyone's capabilities and creativity for the best possible outcome. Kind of like buying many lottery tickets as opposed to investing in only a few. There are ways of increasing odds for success, and capitalism is probably not the way of the intergalactic community.

Spectrum wrote:
So should we adjust a view of the energy scale to include our own populations as already exceeding a one classification?

I think we will continue to be a type zero civilization for some time to come, maybe another 100 years or so. Only primitive societies will have been short-sighted as to continue relying on dead plants as an energy source. We will have to learn to harness the energy of the sun for all our needs. If we can expand our economies at merely one percent per year for the next couple of millenia, we should attain type II technological capabilities. Maybe only a few thousand more years to type III after that. But it's still a relatively tiny slice of time in the larger scheme of things. I think there will be people out there who represent indestructible species. I don't know if they will want to colonize the galaxy either. I think that line of thinking about the future would be like asking a child what he wants to be when he grows up. The kid might say, I want to live on a tropical island, drive a Rolls Royce everywhere and eat chocolate all the time.

Perhaps advanced species will have better things to do than copy-cat planet earth's imperialists of old. Perhaps there really are better things to do with their immortality and advanced technological capabilities. And perhaps they've sent probes piloted by highly intelligent drones to help us through our own technological adolescence. If they can help us avoid destroying ourselves by capitalism run amok or resource wars, then maybe we can live on and evolve into something better and more worthwhile than type 0. Maybe we are considered a precious "resource", too, I don't know. Perhaps we are destined for bigger and better things in the future...

Spectrum Spectrum's picture

Rusty the Tin Man with a Heart

Fidel wrote:
Capitalism results in unnatural competition and works on the basis of fear. Fear appeals to primitive parts of the brain and over-develops those parts of us which are probably going to be the end of us according to Frank Drake et al

Thanks for your clarity and your whole comment. It help to restore some of my faith based on truth objectification of the place we are currently at, with the views you have shared of our society. Our status.

Bicentennial Man

I was confusing some signs within our society of a progression of sorts with the ideas of technology advancements, yet there was little done on the human species itself in terms of that psychology. Stressing the value of an IQ above the ideas I have about the EQ,  how our society can escape that abstraction of being without attaching the human values seen in computerization development was a case i point about the development of those technologies.

Irobot

Did we want automatons what ever their guise to be the sheople of a society that looks at us no more then, cold and unsympathetic as sentient beings whatever our shapes. I mean what I had proposed of the Greys is unsettling to me, that such a servant of society could have been created  which does no more then the bidding of that civilization. What it was designed for.

Robots with Feelings

Even this idea is alien in that what I might have thought about as this dysfunction of our society could have been seen as a resource based on the objectification and goals of some alien civilization,  is really my primitive mind looking at it. I would want to think that spiritually the advancements in our psychology makeup would be the advance to those degrees of that  civilization could have developed too, that we would in part be develop our societies here on earth.

Robots feeding that primitve nature

Seven billion inhabitants on this earth......what would one put before them that such progressions would be to excel our civilizations as a family toward the future? Introduce some new religion, some corporate ideal, or something that is new to the peoples as to join them toward that future of sharing and growth, as potentials of us as beings?

Spectrum Spectrum's picture

Are We Alone?

 

Quote:

DR. HAWKING: If there is a government conspiracy to suppress the reports and keep for itself the scientific knowledge the aliens bring, it seems to have been a singularly ineffective policy so far.



Furthermore, despite an extensive search by the SETI project, we haven't heard any alien television quiz shows. This probably indicates that there are no alien civilizations at our stage of development within the radius of a few hundred lightyears. Issuing an insurance policy against abduction by aliens seems a pretty safe bet.



Why haven't we heard from anyone out there? One view is expressed in this Calvin cartoon. The caption reads: "Sometimes I think that the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us."

More seriously, there could be three possible explanations of why we haven't heard from aliens. First, it may be that the probability of primitive life appearing on a suitable planet is very low. See: NASA's 50th Anniversary Lecture By Professor Stephen Hawking

Fidel

Spectrum wrote:
Did we want automatons what ever their guise to be the sheople of a society that looks at us no more then, cold and unsympathetic as sentient beings whatever our shapes. I mean what I had proposed of the Greys is unsettling to me, that such a servant of society could have been created which does no more then the bidding of that civilization. What it was designed for.

Yes, and it's also beyond my level of understanding. I don't know, they create these things a long time ago. They could be cyborgs or perhaps even fully organic. It's a new species and develops their own consciousness and evolving intelligence. And perhaps the masters themselves are extinct a long time. Perhaps the masters have evolved from organic species to cyborgs to uploading consciousness itself to machines. Perhaps their last stage of evolution was to become pure energy forms existing on another plane of reality. Durac suggested an alternate neutrino universe. Perhaps travel at the speed of thought is possible for them. It's fun to guess.

DR. HAWKING wrote:
If there is a government conspiracy to suppress the reports and keep for itself the scientific knowledge the aliens bring, it seems to have been a singularly ineffective policy so far.
Furthermore, despite an extensive search by the SETI project, we haven't heard any alien television quiz shows. This probably indicates that...

And Hawking has been criticized for his comments and typified by that Calvin comic. Why would an advanced civilization need us or our planet for their own purposes? Surely they will not desire our dead plant energy reserves or what's left of them. Surely a type III, IV civilization won't need to enslave us if they can create their own robots as resourceful and intelligent as self-replicating robots piloting von Neumann probes. I'm somewhat limited in my views of science fiction myself and relying on Arthur Clarke and others for a serious guesstimate as to what they could be up to. But I think that imperialism surely can't be on their agenda. Our most valuable asset here is the real estate itself. If they are imperialists, then perhaps the planet could be used as some kind of forward operating military base or even an outpost or base station for exploration. I have a Mulder hunch that they've been here for a long time and generally have no desire to interfere in human development in a direct and obvious way. It's possible they have worked to accelerate human evolution in more subtle ways. Perhaps our best and brightest wouldnt have a clue as to what they might say to them. Lord Rees has suggested that our five senses and brains are just not evolved enough to understand the universe. Apparently it's not just more than we can know, the universe is much stranger than we know.

And then there is the theory that governments are insulating us from the truth for our own good. Some abductees have described the physical appearance of some species visiting us as something close to our worst nightmares. I can understand that view in some respects. I think a lot of people are easily freaked out by physical appearances of some of their own kind. Some of us could never be emergency room physicians or nurses because of the blood and gore and conditions of accident victims even. Some of us never realize what delicate constitutions we may possess until experiencing the abnormal first-hand. Just an example. 

But it's also an easy excuse for avoiding the truth. I think most of us are thirsting for truth, democracy and accountability in government. Most of us want transparency in government, but what we get is silence and secrecy on everything from the Kennedy assassinations to 9/11 attacks. They still won't release some of the evidence from the JFK murder until, what, 2029? Government secrecy and democracy are generally incompatible themes. They've lied to us a lot. And as Canadian physicist Stanton Friedman has said, both governments and corporations make it a business of keeping secrets. The Corona spy satellite that was finally put in orbit by 1960 is a good example. There were 12 rocket failures, and the public knew nothing about them. That took some effort.  And the public knew nothing of its existence until 1995 or so. This UFO thing, I think, really is a cosmic Watergate. It's the biggest story in the history of man, and our lamestream news media fell down on the job not reporting it for years. I think disclosure is happening now, gradually. Nothing earth-shattering and more of a spoon feeding kind of thing with leaks here and there by government and military people.

At the end of the sequel, 2010 A Space Odyssey, the NASA guys receive a message from the monolith on, was it Europa, a moon of Jupiter? ALL THESE WORLDS ARE YOUR'S EXCEPT EUROPA. Some UFOlogists claim that the Apollo guys saw base stations of all shapes and sizes on the dark side of the moon. And there hasn't been a moonshot for decades.

And the truth is that they have not kept UFOs a secret. Edgar Mitchell says the truth has been leaking out for the last 50 years. Hawking tells us as much when he says government secrets are difficult things to manage. A large percentage of the world population doesn't trust government. What the world yearns for is glasnost on a global scale.  It's time to put away the religious and political doctrine that says we are the crowning end product of the universe. We are not alone, and it's time to grow up and admit that truth. Like indigenous people of the Americas centuries ago spotting the first ship sails on the horizon, I think something similar is happening today. They are anchored offshore and waiting for the right moment to announce their arrival.

Fidel

[url=http://www.nsa.gov/public_info/_files/ufo/key_to_et_messages.pdf]This(pdf)[/url] is interesting. Observe info in the url address.

Spectrum Spectrum's picture

Interesting Fidel,

Just letting pdf load while using dial up. Thought to look around a bit before reading the file.

Quote:

List of cryptographic key types

This glossary lists types of keys as the term is used in cryptography, as opposed to door locks. Terms that are primarily used by the U.S. National Security Agency are marked (NSA). For classification of keys according to their usage see cryptographic key types.

Strange but still waiting for document to load, thoughts about the show Contact came to mind on how data was streamed back too, once it was learn how the message itself was being received "in block images and that they overlapped in a way in which to complete a total picture by creating frames."

Contact the Movie

Quote:
The project is put under tight security and its progress followed fervently worldwide. President Bill Clinton and Drumlin give a television address to downplay the impact of the Hitler image, while Arroway learns that a third set of data was found in the signal; over 60,000 "pages" of what appear to be technical drawings. Government specialists unsuccessfully attempt to decode the drawings, later decoded by Hadden. He explains that the pages are meant to be interpreted in three dimensions, which reveals a complex machine allowing for one human occupant inside a pod to be dropped into three rapidly spinning rings.

In that case(fictional story) it was a design for a craft in which to travel through space.Can't completely remember it right now.

Quote:
Please Note: These historical documents are PDF images of formerly classified carbon paper and reports that have been declassified. Due to the age and poor quality of some of the PDF images, a screen reader may not be able to process the images into word documents. In accordance with Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973, as amended, individuals may request that the government provide auxiliary aids or services to ensure effective communication of the substance of the documents. For such requests, please contact the Public Affairs Office at 301-688-6524.

Sorry PDF will not load. Will try shortly under wireless.

The crime of the century, was that big telecom/Government knew how to connect rural Canada and it did nothing....but to fabricate data packages for us humans to use. Imagine it(frequencies) all in the air around us, and all we need is a device in which to access it? Hmmm..a public device perhaps(think of Richard Stallman here again in context of Copyleft), designed by and for municipalities, to connect society aside from the way in which telecom/Government which seeks to profit from our effectiveness to gain knowledge apprehension and embed their truth?

Sorry for the rant Fidel. Be right back.

Spectrum Spectrum's picture

okay lets see how this works. Remember now, from Rural Canada.

Key to the Extraterrestrial Messages by H. Campaigne

Nope.....black screen, next link as well on Index page.

So what does it say Fidel?

Spectrum Spectrum's picture

Crossing wireless here....:)

Quote:

quote: It is with some insight then that if this is currently free then such attempts to build new devices to access this without using current patented technologies would then be invited under the auspice of a open source and competitive standard to allow such an expression by the people?
White Space Public Domain?

Openmedia is looking for a Grassroots movementI've been at it a while. Somebody should take a look.

 

Fidel

Very interesting, Spectrum. Thnx!

It looks like a lot of speculation about signals from space perhaps. I think they believe they are looking at some numbers, formal logic maybe  encoded messages, run-length encoded patterns and such. I see some unary operators and digital symbols, numbers that don't make any sense. Can't really tell what they might be looking at. It looks alien enough to me.

But the heading reads: Key To The Extraterrestrial Messages. Are they listening to noise from space or...what? I have no idea if this is a joke or someone being serious or much of anything. I'm prolly the last guy in the world who would know.

Spectrum Spectrum's picture

Fidel wrote:
It looks like a lot of speculation about signals from space perhaps.

Yes, so many "what if"s."

About what we know? As a society,  are we abreast of what is happening in the scientific community? Only what they allow us to read?

5.1. Communication vs Formalization

 

 

If you keep in advance of the research, you get to begin to understand at what level we are actually at in terms of that science.

Quote:

Joe Kapusta
The right spin for a neutrino superfluid Compiled by Steve Reucroft and John Swain, Northeastern University.

Kapusta points out that the condensation temperature would be well below the cosmic background temperature, so it would be quite a feat to make this superfluid. However, Kapusta also notes that a sufficiently advanced civilization might use pulses of neutrino superfluid for long-distance communications.

Think about the entanglement process. How something "is connected" and you can think about cryptology(not able to break the cpher) in a way that one might not of considered before. Think of the transaction that take place on line. How secure is it? The science aiding in terms of the subject of entangle, that can go vast distances? How entangle can be postulated as describers of what is happening within a blackhole theoretically.

Quote:

Galactic Neutrino Communication by John G. Learned, Sandip Pakvasa, A. Zee

We examine the possibility to employ neutrinos to communicate within the galaxy. We discuss various issues associated with transmission and reception, and suggest that the resonant neutrino energy near 6.3 PeV may be most appropriate. In one scheme we propose to make Z^o particles in an overtaking e^+ - e^- collider such that the resulting decay neutrinos are near the W^- resonance on electrons in the laboratory. Information is encoded via time structure of the beam. In another scheme we propose to use a 30 PeV pion accelerator to create neutrino or anti-neutrino beams. The latter encodes information via the particle/anti-particle content of the beam, as well as timing. Moreover, the latter beam requires far less power, and can be accomplished with presently foreseeable technology. Such signals from an advanced civilization, should they exist, will be eminently detectable in neutrino detectors now under construction.

Sunshots

Sun Shots

by JoAnne

Glast/Fermi has calorimeters, "that within a parameter space"  reveals information about/from "an event"  that can happen a long time ago? Events that we look at cosmologically. What is the range of the spectrum we have nurtured to see in, and this has shed new perspective and light about the universe as well. About how,  when we turn that camera back to earth,  how in Gamma we can see.

 

How thunderstorms launch particle beams into space

See: NASA's Fermi Catches Thunderstorms Hurling Antimatter into Space

Spectrum Spectrum's picture

Quote:

Close encounter
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
For the films, see Close Encounters of the Third Kind and The Fourth Kind.

In ufology, a close encounter is an event in which a person witnesses an unidentified flying object. This terminology and the system of classification behind it was started by astronomer and UFO researcher J. Allen Hynek, and was first suggested in his 1972 book The UFO Experience: A Scientific Inquiry.[1] He introduced the first three kinds of encounters; more sub-types of close encounters were later added by others, but these additional categories are not universally accepted by UFO researchers, mainly because they depart from the scientific rigor that Hynek aimed to bring to ufology.[2]

Sightings more than 500 feet (160 m) from the witness are classified as "Daylight Discs," "Nocturnal Lights," or "Radar/Visual Reports."[3] Sightings within about 500 feet are subclassified as various types of "close encounter." Hynek and others[4] argued a claimed close encounter must occur within about 500 feet to greatly reduce or eliminate the possibility of misidentifying conventional aircraft or other known phenomena.

Hynek's scale achieved cachet with the general public when it informed elements of the 1977 film Close Encounters of the Third Kind, which is named after the third level of the scale. Posters for the film recited the three levels of the scale, and Hynek himself makes a cameo appearance near the end of the film.

Contents

Hynek's scale
First

A sighting of one or more unidentified flying objects:

  • Flying saucers
  • Odd lights
  • Aerial objects that are not attributable to known human technology

Second

An observation of a UFO, and associated physical effects from the UFO, including:

Third

An observation of what Hynek termed "animate beings" observed in association with a UFO sighting.[6] Hynek deliberately chose the somewhat vague term "animate beings" to describe beings associated with UFOs without making any unfounded assumptions regarding the beings' origins or nature. Hynek did not necessarily regard these beings as "extraterrestrials" or "aliens." Additionally, Hynek further expressed discomfort with such reports, but felt a scientific obligation to include them, at the very least because they represented a sizable minority of claimed UFO encounters.

Bloecher subtypes

The UFO researcher Ted Bloecher proposed six subtypes for the close encounters of the third kind in the Hynek's scale.

A: An entity is observed only inside the UFO
B: An entity is observed inside and outside the UFO
C: An entity is observed near to a UFO, but not going in or out.
D: An entity is observed. No UFOs are seen by the observer, but UFO activity has been reported in the area at about the same time
E: An entity is observed. But no UFOs are seen and no UFO activity has been reported in the area at that time
F: No entity or UFOs are observed, but the subject experiences some kind of "intelligent communication"

Fourth

A human is abducted by a UFO or its occupants. This type was not included in Hynek's original close encounters scale.[6]

Jacques Vallee,[7] Hynek's erstwhile associate, argued that a CE4 should be described as "cases when witnesses experienced a transformation of their sense of reality," so as to also include non-abduction cases where absurd, hallucinatory or dreamlike events are associated with UFO encounters.

Fifth

Named by Steven M. Greer's CSETI group, these purported encounters are joint, bilateral contact events produced through the conscious, voluntary and proactive human-initiated or cooperative communication with extraterrestrial intelligence. This is very similar to some "contactees" of the 1950s who claimed regular communication with benevolent aliens.

The nature of this bilateral, deliberate communication between the intelligent source and the subject is generally claimed to be (but does not have to be) telepathic. The subject generally does not claim to be psychic. Contrary to popular belief, not all subjects in this category identify the source as being of extraterrestrial origin, but simply as otherworldly (or as being not of this world).

Sixth

On Michael Naisbitt's website, a sixth proposed CE scenario is described as UFO incidents that cause direct injury or death.[8] This category was not included in Hynek's scale, and is furthermore redundant: a CE2 in Hynek's scale specifically included UFO encounters that leave direct physical evidence of any kind.

Seventh

The Black Vault Encyclopedia Project proposes a Close Encounter of the Seventh Kind as mating between a human being and extraterrestrial that produces a human-alien hybridisation, usually called a Star Child.[9] This concept similar to ideas promoted by ancient astronauts theorists like Erich von Däniken, Zecharia Sitchin and Robert K.G. Temple, in that extraterrestrials interacted with, perhaps interbred with and influenced ancient human beings in the past.[10]

This concept of CE7 is at odds with Hynek's original concepts, however. Hynek's CE3 specifically avoided describing UFO occupants as "aliens" or "extraterrestrials," contending that there was not enough evidence to determine if beings associated with UFOs had an objective physical reality, let alone to confirm their origins or motives.

Spectrum Spectrum's picture

Quote:

An Anomalous SETI Signal
Credit & Copyright: SETI League

Explanation: No one knows for sure what caused this signal. There is a slight possibility that it just might originate from an extraterrestrial intelligence. The bright colors on the blue background indicate that an anomalous signal was received here on Earth by a radio telescope involved in a Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence (SETI). A search for these signals is ongoing by several groups including volunteer members of the SETI League. Time labels the vertical axis of the above plot, and frequency marks the horizontal axis. Although this strong signal was never positively identified, astronomers have identified in it many attributes characteristic of a more mundane and ultimately terrestrial origin. In this case, a leading possibility is that the signal originates from an unusual modulation between a GPS satellite and an unidentified Earth-based source. Many unusual signals from space remain unidentified. No signal has yet been strong enough or run long enough to be unambiguously identified as originating from an extraterrestrial intelligence.

Spectrum Spectrum's picture

White Owl

Quote:
One does not meet oneself until one catches the reflection from an eye of another than human. Loren Eiseley

 

http://www.ted.com/talks/view/lang/eng//id/468

Quote:
Cross-posted on Huffington Post When 2009 TED Prize winner Jill Tarter wished to “empower Earthlings everywhere to become active participants in the ultimate search for cosmic company,” we looked to the SETI Institute’s Allen Telescope Array (ATA).

With this telescope, Jill’s vision, and the power of open-source initiatives, we were able to globalize the search for extraterrestrial intelligence. Because we don’t know what a new signal will look like, it’s hard to create an algorithm to find it, and our own eyes actually work better than computers.See:The search for cosmic company goes on

Fidel

Thanks Spectrum. I've enjoyed some of those TED talks. Tarter sounds interesting. 

This is way off topic as usual from me, but sci-fi writers and scientists have mentioned the possibility that highly evolved species somewhere in the abyss of space could conceivably have achieved immortality. How else would Captain Kirk and Starship crew do all that exploration of space and not have conquered at least a few diseases along the way (and hunger and material poverty)? Is there any evidence for immortality or at least longevity besides  monarch butterflies and perhaps spores? 

[url=http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/wildlife/4357829/Immortal-jellyfish-swa... jellyfish?[/url] Here is seems immortality is possible within even a natural Darwinian scheme of things. But what if mankind was to engineer his own immortality? Some economists and social scientists have said that it consumes so much money and time in educating a few people only to have them grow old and retire in during what could be their most productive years. It would benefit society greatly if life spans were extendable. And not just by a few years but by decades of time and with a certain quality of life perhaps indefinitely according to longevity promoter Aubrey deGrey. It takes a lot of time and effort to produce specialists. We should try to cure diseases, but instead a warped economic theory says, in so many unwritten rules, that it is better to reap profits by treating symptoms and side effects rather than tackling cause and curing. We need to speed up and invest in this kind of research according to very many experts. The human body is a vast and mostly unexplored frontier.

Spectrum Spectrum's picture

Hi Fidel,

Fidel wrote:
But what if mankind was to engineer his own immortality? Some economists and social scientists have said that it consumes so much money and time in educating a few people only to have them grow old and retire in during what could be their most productive years. It would benefit society greatly if life spans were extendable. And not just by a few years but by decades of time and with a certain quality of life perhaps indefinitely according to longevity promoter Aubrey deGrey.

Interesting question? So many questions. Thanks for helping to extend the questions around the reasons as to why such a development "of drones" may have been used to extend the idea of an agenda of alien consideration that such a civilization could have developed a unsympathetic realization to the matters states, to have thought about the spiritual journey rather then the material one?

         If the heart was free from the impurities of sin, and therefore lighter than the feather, then the dead person could enter the eternal afterlife.

What value such immortality, as a fountain of youth, to not have learn anything? What exactly can you scale against accomplishment? Is it so far from the mission of an "evolutionary consideration of what spirituality might mean" across all species on this planet and across this universe? Can we attribute another perspective then according to the "matter states" that such environ could have been a welcome detachment, as well as a agenda toward our own evolution bend toward spirit?

Quote:

30 September 2009
Following the launch and in-orbit testing of the most sophisticated gravity mission ever built, ESA’s GOCE satellite is now in ‘measurement mode’, mapping tiny variations in Earth’s gravity in unprecedented detail.
 


The ‘Gravity field and steady-state Ocean Circulation Explorer’ (GOCE) satellite was launched on 17 March from northern Russia. The data now being received will lead to a better understanding of Earth’s gravity, which is important for understanding how our planet works.

 

Perspective and spectrum?

Why a propagation toward the human species then, that immortality would have been measured "in the depth of our spirit and our eternal youth" rather then the definition of those same matter states as a propagation? Why forget,  once immersed in such matter states? Is this not the state of the species now?

Quote:
 BARCROFT

Having stumbled upon the font of eternal youth, this tiny creature which is just 5mm long is the focus of many intricate studies by marine biologists and geneticists to see exactly how it manages to literally reverse its aging process.'Immortal' jellyfish swarming across the world

The question for me then is the idea of the "consolidation of the matter states" as to consider what seed can become the advancement of our societies that we would move toward a new understanding of the spirit rather then to have perceived the technological advancements as worthy of the ascent of our civilization?

"There before him, a glittering toy no Star-Child could resist, floated the planet Earth with all its peoples." -- 2001

The Star-Child into which Dr. Bowman is transformed, looking at Earth.

 

An algorithm then designed as inherent in the identity of the human soul,  as well as the expression of the economy,  as a factor let loose upon our planet.

Fidel

Spectrum wrote:
What value such immortality, as a fountain of youth, to not have learn anything? What exactly can you scale against accomplishment? Is it so far from the mission of an "evolutionary consideration of what spirituality might mean" across all species on this planet and across this universe? Can we attribute another perspective then according to the "matter states" that such environ could have been a welcome detachment, as well as a agenda toward our own evolution bend toward spirit?

Immortality? Spiritual journeys? I suppose if there is a spiritual existence or life beyond the grave, then indigenous people around the world have a handle on it. Canadian Tom Harpur wrote that modern day religious scholars began to realize that indigenous people in this hemisphere possessed what are some of the most sophisticated and deeply held spiritual beliefs in the world. Their spiritual beliefs were much more advanced than church missionaries and colonists gave them credit for at the time of first contacts. And the good church people proceeded to burn and destroy a lot of the evidence for that over the course of several hundred years. It took them a long time to subdue nations of people and convince them that their ways and beliefs were worthless compared to those of the invaders. 

Author John Robert Columbo of Toronto is a prolific collector of Canadian lore and writer of essays. And some of the Canadian accounts of UFOs are just fantastic to say the least. One contributor to his essays on UFOs says that the star people told her, during an encounter in the late  60s or 70s that people here think they have to die first before being whisked off through the tunnel of bright light to whatever is at the other end. Star people informed her that they do it all the time without dying. Fascinating stories for sure.

And I think our own history is partly a reason why people like Hawking and others say we should fear first contact and not broadcast our presence in the universe. Apparently they think that because white Europeans did such a bad job of making contact with new people, then so will everyone else in the universe who might be more technically advanced than us. Everything they assume about deep space and possible life out there seems to be based on fear of the unknown.

[url=http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblog/2011/04/darwins-extraterrestrials-n..."Darwin's Extraterrestrials" -- A New Theory for the 'Great Silence'[/url]

Enrico Fermi asked, Where is everybody?

The Earth-centric attitude is still one of, if they haven't bothered to visit us or alert us to their presence as if we are God's crowning glory in the heavens, then they can't exist. Or they must be real low lives etc. Or fraidy cats due to some other bullies oppressing or menacing everyone. And so this is why it's quiet bla bla bla... survival of the scariest etc. I think it says more about our own level of intelligence than anything.

Spectrum Spectrum's picture

Hi Fidel

I'm sorry I could not respond sooner. I want to respond in more detail to your comment and article linked so I will have to make time for that and I will come back to it. I wanted to leave you with this article below so you can have a look at it.

Quote:

Stephen Hawking dismisses belief in God in an exclusive interview with the Guardian. Photograph: Solar & Heliospheric Observatory/Discovery Channel

In the interview, Hawking rejected the notion of life beyond death and emphasised the need to fulfil our potential on Earth by making good use of our lives. In answer to a question on how we should live, he said, simply: "We should seek the greatest value of our action." Ian Sample, science correspondent


Fidel

Spectrum wrote:

In the interview, Hawking rejected the notion of life beyond death and emphasised the need to fulfil our potential on Earth by making good use of our lives. In answer to a question on how we should live, he said, simply: "We should seek the greatest value of our action." Ian Sample, science correspondent

Hawking gives good advice in that regard. Except it could also be misconstrued politically as, Don't rock the boat with asking too many questions of those in authority.Trust and obey.

Some of us just have a difficult time of it with the trusting and obeying end of things. And these royal astronomers and government science guys just don't have a lot of options for whistleblowing or alternative employment for that matter.

I've read the trusting and obeying of war crims and their colonial administrators mentioned in the fine print, and it's not any more readable now than before.

Monday night (5/23) radio interview wrote:
, #Boston, #Worcester, #Providence drivetime, Southern New England. Woon 1240 AM, 6 - 7 pm EST, (3 pm Pacific) with Paul and Ben Eno.

Paul & Ben welcome investigative journalist LESLIE KEAN, whose new book UFOs: Generals, Pilots and Government Officials Go on the Record, blows the lid off government secrecy around the world when it comes to UFOs. Ms. Kean concludes that the UFO problem must be more widely recognized and ultimately solved through an unbiased scientific investigation. Familiar to millions of viewers of the History, Discovery and Science Channels, this her first appearance on the show. "Ufos and the Military, Part 2" will air on our CBS Radio edition on June 12.

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Fidel wrote:
Canadian Tom Harpur wrote that modern day religious scholars began to realize that indigenous people in this hemisphere possessed what are some of the most sophisticated and deeply held spiritual beliefs in the world.

I agree with your perspective about the historical perspective with the introduction of the white people assertions toward the beliefs of their spirituality  and that expressed by the indigenous people of that time. The "new culture"  to squashed that belief.

Over all I see in a  sense what you are saying that what could have befell the indigenous peoples is what could have fell upon the generations that exist now upon the planet by some alien society as an act of evolution and change with those same correlative situations as it did in our past. Many fictions written in this context today.

But again these are the finer mental states of existence of belief structures, polarization and centralization of such beliefs are "matter states" in the conquest of how we may perceive that evolution.

Quote:
LEE SMOLIN- Physicist, Perimeter Institute; Author, The Trouble With Physics

Thinking In Time Versus Thinking Outside Of Time

One very old and pervasive habit of thought is to imagine that the true answer to whatever question we are wondering about lies out there in some eternal domain of "timeless truths." The aim of re-search is then to "discover" the answer or solution in that already existing timeless domain. For example, physicists often speak as if the final theory of everything already exists in a vast timeless Platonic space of mathematical objects. This is thinking outside of time. See:A "scientific concept" may come from philosophy, logic, economics, jurisprudence, or other analytic enterprises, as long as it is a rigorous conceptual tool that may be summed up succinctly (or "in a phrase") but has broad application to understanding the world.


 Lee Smolin does not obviously like the abstractions in the mathematical realm, and prefers to set the pace for scientific realism by denouncing the historical past with regard to foundational approaches by Plato Thales and others who were our forefathers of expression. Like Hawking,  he is seeking to set foot in the realism of today?

So I am struggling with what we can define as "outside time" is no more then the belief of, while in science we are asking to deal with a methodology that is repeatable by expression, so how can we say spirituality is of a kind of substance or can exist amongst all substances and does not exist outside of time?

In dealing with the opinion of Hawking and Smolin I raise the question of Meno,

Quote:
SOCRATES: But if he always possessed this knowledge he would always have known; or if he has acquired the knowledge he could not have acquired it in this life, unless he has been taught geometry; for he may be made to do the same with all geometry and every other branch of knowledge. Now, has any one ever taught him all this? You must know about him, if, as you say, he was born and bred in your house.SEE:Meno by Plato

It relates to the question of how the house boy knew what he knew.

Quote:
MENO: And I am certain that no one ever did teach him.

SOCRATES: And yet he has the knowledge?

MENO: The fact, Socrates, is undeniable.

SOCRATES: But if he did not acquire the knowledge in this life, then he must have had and learned it at some other time?

MENO: Clearly he must.

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Books for the Dead are Really, Books for Life?

The Papyrus of Ani
(The Egyptian Book of the Dead)


Translated by E. A. Wallis Budge

Tibetan Book of the Dead Teachings

with Lama Kusang Norbu

Fidel

Spectrum wrote:
Macdougall's mistake was to believe that spirituality could actually weigh something?

I have no idea except to say that some scientists have said that certain phenomenon may not be detectable by our five senses as developed throughout our evolution. Astronomer Lord Rees suggests that we may need to evolve physically and otherwise a lot further in order to fully understand the universe. And I can see that. If we have evolved in a corner of the universe where atomic matter rules, then of course scientists are going to know a lot about physical matter, which is about 4% of everything that there is.

Scientific materialists have suggested that consciousness may some day be uploaded to solid state computer circuitry. We would supposedly achieve immortality. And some sci-fi writers have proposed various evolutionary paths where future man (or alien) evolves in this way, from carbon units to cyborg half-breeds and eventually toward superhuman machine intelligence that never expires. Seth Weisberg poses some serious technical issues with that kind of evolution.

Will it be human consciousness uploaded to transistor based computer circuitry, or will it be human souls uploaded to quantum computers? Or perhaps another dimension in some sort of high tech transmigration of souls/consciousness? It all depends on whether scientific materialism or non-materialism prevails in future I think.

Egyptian book of the dead sounds interesting, Thanks Spectrum. Apparently some pyramidologists believe that if they substitute years for inches, the great pyramid becomes a prophetic calendar of human events culminating in a forked path to our future. A similar dual future is predicted by prophecies according to Hopis of the Americas. Time is a river that flows and branches into forks and even whirlpools according to Einstein. What about oxbows? ;-)

Could it be that materialism and the scientific philosophy of presentism will one day be replaced by non-materialist science, or both material and non-materialism? Is metaphysics on the verge of becoming mainstream science as standard model theorist Larry Krauss suggested last year may be occurring now? It's really interesting for sure.

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Quote:
Spectrum wrote: Macdougall's mistake was to believe that spirituality could actually weigh something?

Fidel wrote:
I have no idea except to say that some scientists have said that certain phenomenon may not be detectable by our five senses as developed throughout our evolution. Astronomer Lord Rees suggests that we may need to evolve physically and otherwise a lot further in order to fully understand the universe. And I can see that. If we have evolved in a corner of the universe where atomic matter rules, then of course scientists are going to know a lot about physical matter, which is about 4% of everything that there is.

You actually quoted from a post that dissappeared when providing the links for the cultural Books of the Dead. MacDougall reference and materialism. My point was to supply the Macdougall reference to show how spirituality from my perspective is much lighter and really can't be measured in the way you captured the quoted statement I have suggested.

It goes back to the panel I provided about the weighing of the heart against the feather as truth. To me, it is about Gravity and how we are looking at it. Conceptually modelling according to the questions of a theoretical unification of all the forces. Where gravity actualy begins and is incluisve. I really have to be careful here of my statements so as to maintain a mainstream correlative thinking that is current and correct. There is so much to remember.

Spectrum Spectrum's picture

Fidel wrote:
Apparently some pyramidologists believe that if they substitute years for inches, the great pyramid becomes a prophetic calendar of human events culminating in a forked path to our future. A similar dual future is predicted by prophecies according to Hopis of the Americas. Time is a river that flows and branches into forks and even whirlpools according to Einstein.

That's interesting as it related to my own research on that topic. Developing the concept about our "metal imagery" according to some scale was implemented in the construction of the geometry of the pyramid. I tried scaling the substance of thought as a elementary consideration of where and what we grab onto in life so as to show that the harboring of thought in such a domain, reveals how close indeed we court the matter distinctions of the world we live in.


Newton the Alchemist

Newton's Translation of the Emerald Tablet

Quote:
It is true without lying, certain and most true. That which is Below is like that which is Above and that which is Above is like that which is Below to do the miracles of the Only Thing. And as all things have been and arose from One by the mediation of One, so all things have their birth from this One Thing by adaptation. The Sun is its father; the Moon its mother; the Wind hath carried it in its belly; the Earth is its nurse. The father of all perfection in the whole world is here. Its force or power is entire if it be converted into Earth. Separate the Earth from the Fire, the subtle from the gross, sweetly with great industry. It ascends from the Earth to the Heavens and again it descends to the Earth and receives the force of things superior and inferior. By this means you shall have the glory of the whole world and thereby all obscurity shall fly from you. Its force is above all force, for it vanquishes every subtle thing and penetrates every solid thing. So was the world created. From this are and do come admirable adaptations, whereof the process is here in this. Hence am I called Hermes Trismegistus, having the three parts of the philosophy of the whole world. That which I have said of the operation of the Sun is accomplished and ended.

Metal should read Mental, but using the analogy of what Gold men/woman are is as much a part of the allure of chymistry as a novel idea of bettering ourselves is an inclusive thought as well.

Quote:

The Errors & Animadversions of Honest Isaac Newton

by Sheldon Lee Glashow

ABSTRACT:

Isaac Newton was my childhood hero. Along with Albert Einstein, he one of the greatest scientists ever, but Newton was no saint. He used his position to defame his competitors and rarely credited his colleagues.His arguments were sometimes false and contrived, his data were often fudged, and he exaggerated the accuracy of his calculations. Furthermore, his many religious works (mostly unpublished) were nonsensical or mystical, revealing him to be a creationist at heart. My talk offers a sampling of Newton’s many transgressions, social, scientific and religious.

Many did not like this part of Isaac Newton's research but to me even with all the failures of Newtons "mental state" he was trying to better himself, and that is what the Books of the Dead represented to me about trying to understand matter creation in the sense of what we gather together to become who we are. That is a consistent feature of living beings that what gathers around our human feature, gathers around all things? Matter gathers around "a spiritual principal" from inside each of us.

Quote:
The standard model of particle physics is a self-contained picture of fundamental particles and their interactions. Physicists, on a journey from solid matter to quarks and gluons, via atoms and nuclear matter, may have reached the foundation level of fields and particles. But have we reached bedrock, or is there something deeper? Savas Dimopoulos

The Sun then becomes a interesting feature of what "rays of creation" may mean as it gives life to all that falls under it's light that such a light could have existed inside of us as well. That we came from such a place as to exemplify that we are being first of the true signs of spirituality and then become all that falls under these rays of creation.

A refractory status of light itself and Thomas Young's question about spectrum of light and being.

Objects like the pyramid were shadow markers and were part of the history and development of concepts of geometers and angles of Euclid in my views. This is a materialistic explanation while the pyramid itself is a model for understanding the matter creation and sub developmental model of such scaling of human thought. This represented in my views as an attempt to help people of the times to understanding the truth and comparison of what values we hold to heart and our own evolution of being.

Newton splits light into its component colors

The pyramidal model of refractions is a display of the light representation of the spectrum of possibilities, as a relational experimental model in my mind of something quite ancient in it's notion,  is applicable in the views of the science today. Something that is forgotten, but as a attempt of all our remembrances whether we like to admit it or not, is a universal understanding of our depth of being and our loss of memory as we are immersed in materiality.

To me this is a aspect of understanding how ideas emerge as if from a world Smolin liked to assign toward "outside of time" and a diversion of the quest to understand aspects of materiality as "not in time." That is my disagreement of him and his thoughts as it relates toward. The "idea of symmetry" and how this is assigned as a relational aspect of the idea of "outside of time." We are of such perfection that such a beauty is simplified in our own existence as spiritual beings that we each contain this within ourselves? This possibility of becoming in the world of materiality.

 

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