The vaccine is here. Now what?

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NorthReport

Ari has a new job. Now he works for the Rebel:

https://www.canadaland.com/rebel-retracts-fake-vaccination-story/

MegB

NorthReport wrote:
Ari has a new job. Now he works for the Rebel: https://www.canadaland.com/rebel-retracts-fake-vaccination-story/[/quote]

This is exactly the kind of crap I'm trying to keep off babble. 

NorthReport

You have been more than lenient, as with Ari's posts it has felt a bit like Donald Trump has been posting his sick and misleading Covid lies here, which could endanger people.

kropotkin1951

MegB wrote:

NorthReport wrote:
Ari has a new job. Now he works for the Rebel: https://www.canadaland.com/rebel-retracts-fake-vaccination-story/

This is exactly the kind of crap I'm trying to keep off babble. 

I presume you mean the Rebel Media piece and not the Canadaland article exposing it as fake news. I think Canadaland is a fine podcast, even if it is a competitor for rabble podcasts.

NorthReport

Duh!

MegB

kropotkin1951 wrote:

MegB wrote:

NorthReport wrote:
Ari has a new job. Now he works for the Rebel: https://www.canadaland.com/rebel-retracts-fake-vaccination-story/

This is exactly the kind of crap I'm trying to keep off babble. 

I presume you mean the Rebel Media piece and not the Canadaland article exposing it as fake news. I think Canadaland is a fine podcast, even if it is a competitor for rabble podcasts.

Of course the Rebel Media piece. Canadaland is a decent progressive site, and I have zero interest in pointlessly slamming our sister organizations.

kropotkin1951

Great, that is what I presumed but it was not clear on its face.

Pondering

Thank-you Meg. I find it incredibly difficult to tolerate the fake-science movement that twists findings to support political goals. It is so important that we all follow the health guidelines to protect not only ourselves but also the more vulnerable. I would not want to be typhoid Mary. 

NorthReport
MegB

Pondering wrote:

Thank-you Meg. I find it incredibly difficult to tolerate the fake-science movement that twists findings to support political goals. It is so important that we all follow the health guidelines to protect not only ourselves but also the more vulnerable. I would not want to be typhoid Mary. 

You're welcome. The pandemic has become political for so many people in a way that really serves no one. Me or you perhaps thinking that vaccines are the front line defense against this does not necessarily mean we love Big Pharma or trust our governments. It's a false dichotomy that's really irritating, to me anyway. 

Pondering

It's irritating to me too.  I am not listening to Big Pharma or the government. I am listening to the science. 

I am very happy we have the vaccines but we still don't know how long the protection lasts or if varients that can resist them will develop.

The really big take away I have gotten from the science is don't breath other people's air. It's fine to disinfect our hands but it is shared air that is the greatest danger and the longer an infected person is in an area the more concentrated the virus becomes.  

I'm happy restrictions are being eased but it is important that people realize that it isn't because they can't catch Covid. It is still taking a risk to share air. Covid isn't gone. Just the chances of being the one that catches it are lower not non-existent. 

We have known how viruses travel for centuries. 

eastnoireast

Pondering wrote:

It's irritating to me too.  I am not listening to Big Pharma or the government. I am listening to the science.

snort. 

science is not monolithic, or The Shining Truth, or beyond "interpretation".

it has a lot of angles, it's a work in progress;

at it's best it's our Best Western Understanding At the Moment.

kropotkin1951

eastnoireast wrote:

at it's best it's our Best Western Understanding At the Moment.

Apparently the Asian countries that have done better than the West are non existent. It is only the West's Big Pharma that is trying to gouge during a pandemic. The Eurasian vaccines from Russia and China are based on science and the delivery of them is based on humanity. In the meantime some people in Canada will want to look their neighbor in the eye and say fuck you my individual rights out weigh the collective good.

Our best Western understanding at this moment is best summed up by the phrase, let the devil take the hindmost.

Pondering

eastnoireast wrote:

Pondering wrote:

It's irritating to me too.  I am not listening to Big Pharma or the government. I am listening to the science.

snort. 

science is not monolithic, or The Shining Truth, or beyond "interpretation".

it has a lot of angles, it's a work in progress;

at it's best it's our Best Western Understanding At the Moment.

There is no need to swallow anything a scientist says without evaluating it nor accept every detail. For example. there has long been a debate between arosol and touching. Reading who was saying what allowed me to determine that it is primarily arosol with some surface contact transmission always possible. 

I knew this winter would be bad since last May or June and I didn't need to be scientist to know it. Unless you are into conspiracy theories this is a highly contagious virus. Much more so than the flu. It was clear the government was not listening to the science and was failing to properly inform the public. 

Listening to the science coming out world wide the science is very very simple. Minimize breathing the same air as other people in whatever manner you have available to you. 

eastnoireast

kropotkin1951 wrote:

eastnoireast wrote:

at it's best it's our Best Western Understanding At the Moment.

Apparently the Asian countries that have done better than the West are non existent. It is only the West's Big Pharma that is trying to gouge during a pandemic. The Eurasian vaccines from Russia and China are based on science and the delivery of them is based on humanity. In the meantime some people in Canada will want to look their neighbor in the eye and say fuck you my individual rights out weigh the collective good.

are you having a vaccine reaction, or are you just really high?

kropotkin1951 wrote:

Our best Western understanding at this moment is best summed up by the phrase, let the devil take the hindmost.

naw, i think our capitalist understanding can be better summed up by the phrase "we can buy-a-product our way outa this"

 

kropotkin1951

eastnoireast wrote:

kropotkin1951 wrote:

eastnoireast wrote:

at it's best it's our Best Western Understanding At the Moment.

Apparently the Asian countries that have done better than the West are non existent. It is only the West's Big Pharma that is trying to gouge during a pandemic. The Eurasian vaccines from Russia and China are based on science and the delivery of them is based on humanity. In the meantime some people in Canada will want to look their neighbor in the eye and say fuck you my individual rights out weigh the collective good.

are you having a vaccine reaction, or are you just really high?

You did not say why you disagree with my statement. Or are you delusional enough to think that all vaccines are bad?

kropotkin1951

Here is a half hour documentary from Chinese TV on their vaccination roll out. They are hoping to vaccinate over a billion people in under a year. The video talks about why some people are hesitant and others are against it. The Chinese population has not really suffered the effects of COVID to the extent other countries have so they not all rushing to get something they are not sure they even need. It also highlights the different approaches that various health authorities are taking to get people to get the free shot.  Like in most videos about China you see a lot of old people on the streets doing volunteer work because they have a low retirement age and lots of seniors with time on their hands. I found the part about the "bottleneck" in the supply chain being the vials interesting. It will be fascinating to see what happens if the people in the different health areas don't sign up in enough numbers to reach the 80% total they are looking for. So far they are relying on people voluntarily getting stabbed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nJdt0RmHvc&t=13s

eastnoireast

kropotkin1951 wrote:

eastnoireast wrote:

kropotkin1951 wrote:

eastnoireast wrote:

at it's best it's our Best Western Understanding At the Moment.

Apparently the Asian countries that have done better than the West are non existent. It is only the West's Big Pharma that is trying to gouge during a pandemic. The Eurasian vaccines from Russia and China are based on science and the delivery of them is based on humanity. In the meantime some people in Canada will want to look their neighbor in the eye and say fuck you my individual rights out weigh the collective good.

are you having a vaccine reaction, or are you just really high?

You did not say why you disagree with my statement. Or are you delusional enough to think that all vaccines are bad?

disagree with your statement?  i can't even understand it.

kropotkin1951

eastnoireast wrote:

kropotkin1951 wrote:

eastnoireast wrote:

kropotkin1951 wrote:

eastnoireast wrote:

at it's best it's our Best Western Understanding At the Moment.

Apparently the Asian countries that have done better than the West are non existent. It is only the West's Big Pharma that is trying to gouge during a pandemic. The Eurasian vaccines from Russia and China are based on science and the delivery of them is based on humanity. In the meantime some people in Canada will want to look their neighbor in the eye and say fuck you my individual rights out weigh the collective good.

are you having a vaccine reaction, or are you just really high?

You did not say why you disagree with my statement. Or are you delusional enough to think that all vaccines are bad?

disagree with your statement?  i can't even understand it.

Sorry I tend to write in prose not SMS. There are lots of good on line dictionaries if you are having trouble keeping up.

NDPP

'We can vaccinate all vulnerable people in 39 days'

https://twitter.com/wellcometrust/status/1395315013234089988

So, why aren't we? Because rich countries have bought up the majority of vaccines."

Few complaints from citizens of rich countries where 'Internationalism' is much mouthed but little practiced alas.

MegB

eastnoireast wrote:

are you having a vaccine reaction, or are you just really high?

Charming. Never ceases to amaze me how perfectly ordinary people can be total jerks when they have a user name to hide behind. If you can't disagree with some modicum of civility, don't bother posting at all.

eastnoireast

MegB wrote:

eastnoireast wrote:

are you having a vaccine reaction, or are you just really high?

Charming. Never ceases to amaze me how perfectly ordinary people can be total jerks when they have a user name to hide behind. If you can't disagree with some modicum of civility, don't bother posting at all.

i would suggest that my comment, in reply to what i felt was an incoherent and nonsensical post, hardly meets the "total jerk" threshold, and in fact is being flagged (unlike krop's - good christian name  - reply, which casts doubt on my intelligence) because of my opinions, and because i dig in when i think something is wrong.

even if "everyone" knows it's right.

the mud-slinging that goes on here, and that line gets flagged?   fishy.

Pondering

eastnoireast wrote:

i would suggest that my comment, in reply to what i felt was an incoherent and nonsensical post, hardly meets the "total jerk" threshold, and in fact is being flagged (unlike krop's - good christian name  - reply, which casts doubt on my intelligence) because of my opinions, and because i dig in when i think something is wrong.

even if "everyone" knows it's right.

the mud-slinging that goes on here, and that line gets flagged?   fishy.

Nothing at all fishy about it. Meg can't read every post on the board herself to review it for infractions. She relies on reports or coming across something herself by chance. 

Every board I have every participated on or evey read replied to excuses with the equivalent of two wrongs don't make a right.  There is no right to retaliation. The policy is not written "this is against policy unless someone does it to you first". 

eastnoireast

Pondering wrote:

eastnoireast wrote:

i would suggest that my comment, in reply to what i felt was an incoherent and nonsensical post, hardly meets the "total jerk" threshold, and in fact is being flagged (unlike krop's - good christian name  - reply, which casts doubt on my intelligence) because of my opinions, and because i dig in when i think something is wrong.

even if "everyone" knows it's right.

the mud-slinging that goes on here, and that line gets flagged?   fishy.

Nothing at all fishy about it. Meg can't read every post on the board herself to review it for infractions. She relies on reports or coming across something herself by chance. 

Every board I have every participated on or evey read replied to excuses with the equivalent of two wrongs don't make a right.  There is no right to retaliation. The policy is not written "this is against policy unless someone does it to you first". 

3x wrongs, or inconsistently applied (and the most insulting of all the three comments, i'll point out) moderation don't make a right, neither.

boring.

 

 

kropotkin1951

Cuba has begun phase three trials on its own vaccine.

The Soberana vaccines are produced by the Finlay Institute in partnership with the Centre for Molecular Immunology and the National Biopreparations Centre. The name Soberana means “sovereign”, reflecting their economic and political importance for the island – without this domestic production, Cuba would struggle to access foreign vaccines either because of their cost in international markets or because of the longstanding US embargo. These vaccines work by inserting genetic information into superior mammalian cells. Soberana Plus is the first vaccine for convalescent COVID-19 patients to reach the clinical trial stage.

http://www.timescaribbeanonline.com/the-full-story-of-cubas-covid-19-vac...

NDPP

"China has given over 700 million vaccines to 90+ countries. The USA has provided just 3 million (1/233 of China's). China considers vaccines a 'global public good' and gives them for very cheap or free, whereas US Big Pharma are charging a lot."

https://twitter.com/BenjaminNorton/status/1398642602950512649

eastnoireast

canada has extended the expiry date for the az vaccine.  one would think/hope that the original expiry dates are very conservative, so perhaps no big deal.  in context.

what i found interesting is how cbc radio reported, around 6pm or so, that health canada had issued the extension after it "received mathamatical modeling from the company".  

within a couple hours, that had changed to the extension being issued after "reviewing real world data".

which means... absolutely nothing!  go cbc!  handwashing is critical!

NDPP

Dr John Campbell: Adverse effects & vaccine risk reduction

https://youtu.be/2pr9yG7CMbY

Post vaccine myocarditis etc.

 

Rich countries cornered covid-19 vaccine doses: 4 strategies to right a 'scandalous inequity'

https://twitter.com/HelenBranswell/status/1398126823523954691

"Terrific look at the inequities of covid-19 vaccine distribution."

Pondering

NDPP wrote:

Dr John Campbell: Adverse effects & vaccine risk reduction

https://youtu.be/2pr9yG7CMbY

Post vaccine myocarditis etc.

 

Rich countries cornered covid-19 vaccine doses: 4 strategies to right a 'scandalous inequity'

https://twitter.com/HelenBranswell/status/1398126823523954691

"Terrific look at the inequities of covid-19 vaccine distribution."

Let's get real.  Any government that vaccinates the citizens of other countries before their own would lose the next election.  Paying countries like Canada had to stand in line behind other countries that had their own vaccine production facilities for that very reason. The only "solution" I see is lifting the patents. 

This is a bankrupt argument that people see through right away and it causes distrust.

The moral argument aside, there’s a very practical reason to try to distribute vaccines more equitably: No part of the world can feel safe if the pandemic rages on elsewhere, posing the risk of reintroduction and spawning potentially more dangerous viral mutants.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2021/05/rich-countries-cornered-covid-19...

While true Canadians will not be made more safe by vaccinating all health care workers in the world before Canadians, even children. It is only when the entire world reaches herd immunity that the risk of variants will be diminished. 

While there are exceptional human beings mankind is not driven by altruism and fairness but by the will to survive as comfortably as possible. We are pack animals therefore mutually dependent for survival from which is born the golden rule. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. That was so we could keep peace for mutual benefit. Might makes right just isn't a very good system for maximizing production. 

The focus needs to be on achievable goals rather than lamenting over how terrible the western world is, although that too is useful, just not for delivering vaccines. 

 

JKR

All 135,000 people at today's Indianapolis 500 were eligible for vaccine shots! Offering vaccine shots at large gatherings may be a good way to vaccinate a larger proportion of the population. 

Aristotleded24

Pondering wrote:

NDPP wrote:

Dr John Campbell: Adverse effects & vaccine risk reduction

https://youtu.be/2pr9yG7CMbY

Post vaccine myocarditis etc.

 

Rich countries cornered covid-19 vaccine doses: 4 strategies to right a 'scandalous inequity'

https://twitter.com/HelenBranswell/status/1398126823523954691

"Terrific look at the inequities of covid-19 vaccine distribution."

Let's get real.  Any government that vaccinates the citizens of other countries before their own would lose the next election.  Paying countries like Canada had to stand in line behind other countries that had their own vaccine production facilities for that very reason. The only "solution" I see is lifting the patents. 

This is a bankrupt argument that people see through right away and it causes distrust.

The moral argument aside, there’s a very practical reason to try to distribute vaccines more equitably: No part of the world can feel safe if the pandemic rages on elsewhere, posing the risk of reintroduction and spawning potentially more dangerous viral mutants.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2021/05/rich-countries-cornered-covid-19...

While true Canadians will not be made more safe by vaccinating all health care workers in the world before Canadians, even children. It is only when the entire world reaches herd immunity that the risk of variants will be diminished. 

While there are exceptional human beings mankind is not driven by altruism and fairness but by the will to survive as comfortably as possible. We are pack animals therefore mutually dependent for survival from which is born the golden rule. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. That was so we could keep peace for mutual benefit. Might makes right just isn't a very good system for maximizing production. 

The focus needs to be on achievable goals rather than lamenting over how terrible the western world is, although that too is useful, just not for delivering vaccines.

With the elderly vulnerable now vaccinated throughout most of the industralized world generally, maybe it would make more sense to send vaccines to other countries so they can protect their vulnerable rather than threatening to impose restrictions on unvaccinated people in the industralized world, especially if we're talking about unvaccinated people not likely to experience a bad outcome from covid.

NDPP

Re #230

"No one that ever lived ever thought so crooked as we."

Samuel Beckett, Endgame

kropotkin1951

Here is a piece by Chinese state media about the efficacy of various vaccines. So far it looks like the BigPharma vaccines are not performing as well as their price tags would suggest they should.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XPXsNimHco

lagatta4

What's with Van Morrison? Has he become part of an anti-reality contingent? What we need is an end to lucrative patents, as well as vaccine sharing, not this nutty denial:

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2020/sep/22/northern-ireland-health-mi... This is an old article but seems to still be circulating among anti-vaxxers and their ilk.

NDPP

By backing drug patents, Bill Gates helped create a vaccine tragedy

https://t.co/PVyVkXV66P

"The Bill Gates-big Pharma model has been a disaster, with pharmaceutical companies making astronomical profits as they dole out scarce supplies of their patented COVID vaccines to the highest bidders, writes Linda McQuaig..."

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