Why the wild and crasy plot theory still live so long

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Lefauve
Why the wild and crasy plot theory still live so long

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Sineed

There's a book called, "Among the Truthers," by Jonathon Kay, that explores the psychology behind conspiracy theories. He focuses on 9/11 truthers, but also covers vaccine conspiracists, holocaust deniers, climate change skeptics etc. He explains why you can't argue with these people; ie, if there's evidence against their theory, they respond with something like, "How convenient."

Conspiracy theories have tended to thrive in troubled times, when trust in authority has been shaken. The main drivers of these theories are intelligent people with a lot of free time on their hands. And almost exclusively male for some reason.

Sineed

PS: here's an article on "Wired" summarizing the best conspiracy theories:

http://www.wired.com/culture/lifestyle/magazine/15-11/st_best

My personal fave: the shape-shifting lizard people from another planet who rule the world. (Hey, you can't prove they don't!)

Fidel

I can't remember which babbler posted a solid pro crazy George Bush II Government piece on 9/11 conspiracies published by that well known scientific journal, 'Popular Mechanix'. Anyone? And a fine piece of debunkery it was for a "scientific journal" dedicated to brainwashing us toward realizing our hidden desires for ATVs, lawnmowers, and any offhand need we might have for clearing up obscurities and a lack of US Govt transparency and zero accountability to the public concerning the worst terrorist attack in the USA since Pearl Harbor and leading to ten years' worth of liquid war. My god people would have to be somewhere between brain dead and crazy George dubya to swallow something as flimsy as that bit of pro war propaganda published by Popular Mechanics, a magazine owned by one of the richest newz media magnates donating equally to the two war parties in America.

9/11 is a conspiracy that dates back 30 years to the CIA's and US Military's largest and most well-funded covert operation in history in Afghanistan. And the best part is that the cold war is now a colder war with the CIA and European intel agencies continuing to aid and abet the proliferation of militant Islam in North Africa, "Middle East" and Central Asia.

The Glasnost is half full.

Lefauve

The less funny it some people are making real profit using those naive people like the anti- vacine conference at montreal congres palace. they organize a conference, fill them with naive people and brainwash them for hour them sold the book and dvd at the exit all for around 200$ for the book and 60$ for the dvd.

Apprenttly they where sucessfull.

Lefauve

An other good one that i like is the one saying that every people that are able to understand or (and) build a computer are people from Alien origin, but they aren't aware of it.

So...

"Pityfull earthling, despise your mediocrity, i'm comming in peace!" ;)

Lefauve

9-11 theory, pantone motor, water cars, alien invasion of the governement.

I hear a lot of wild and crasy theory.

One of my favorite conspiracy theory story is one implying that the oil industries, the coal industries and nuclear industries have corrupt the entire engineering and scientific community in order to hide some law of physic and to protect the conventional energy market. Those story are easy to find fail that discredit them, still what ever prove you give them, some people still believe in those story. How people are believing in such story make me broke a few rib while laughing.

Lefauve

Fidel,

All the theory on 9/11 don't stand the chance when we test the argument, At the CBC's Enquête serie they done an investigation on the 9/11 theorie they interview the main suporter of the theory and various independant expert one of them was an renow demolition expert with decade of experience behind his belt. He explain every phenomena during the colapse of the tower. The theory also lack in the end goal, the availability of other mean!

http://www.radio-canada.ca/emissions/enquete/2009-2010/Reportage.asp?idD...

Jacob Two-Two

It is not a conspiracy theory to say that the biggest security failure in the history of the US needs to have a real impartial investigation. That's just common sense. If a hospital burned down, there would be one, but not for the WTC attacks. I find it absolutely stunning that people scoff at this notion. What's to be said about such an attitude? Apparently, the bigger the disaster, the less anyone needs to look into it, in the minds of some.

If you really believe that the so-called "truthers" are full of crap, then you should be joining them in calling for a full independent investigation so that this can finally be put to bed. That's what eventually convinced me that the anti-vaccine crowd was wrong. Not a load of self-satisfied mockery, but real, credible investigations by impartial scientists. Once we get the same for the WTC attacks, then we can all start talking rationally about it. So why hasn't it happened? 

Fidel

Why is it that they try to associate people demanding transparency and accountability from corrupt governments with very far out conspiracy theories? Because I rarely if ever blurt out that those who swallow whatever it is crazy, cocaine-snorting George dubya II was selling in regard to 9/11 are a bunch of wackos in kind. As much as I am sometimes tempted to, I never smear these people by suggesting they believed crazy George Bush's lies about "WMD" in 2000s Iraq, or a long list of the Dubya Government's lies including the coercing of government scientists to propagandize the public WRT climate science denialism in the very same decade team dubya lied continuously to the public about 9/11.

No, I don't  associate non-truthers with those wackos. At least not for purposes of scoring cheap points in a debate where no one is actually discussing the facts. Because that would be hitting below the belt. However, it's obvious that non-truthers feel the need to stoop to that level when avoiding the facts surrounding what is looking more and more like a US Military Government inside job on 9/11. The US Federal Emergency Management Authority is all about creating the conditions for emergency fascism and nothing to do with the way democratic governments operate. Governments that operate with transparency and accountable to the public don't hold meetings behind closed doors for weeks on end. Democratic Governments are not led around Washington by their nostrils by military contractors or Pentagon capitalists beating the drums for more war. In fact, crazy george de la yeyo's government was not a democratically elected government. It was just another of a long line of cosmetic governments in Warshington fronting for the US Military Dictatorship Inc created in the late 1940s with the creation of and numerous amendments to the US National Security Act of 1947. Any notion of a US republic operating by constitutional democracy and constitutional law ceased to exist after that. An Italian business person once told former president Kennedy that the US would some day have to deal with fascism, and they have failed in that regard.

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Why the wild and crasy plot theory still live so long

Ah? Because there is no statute of limitations for murder let alone mass murder and war crimes? Let's make something clear for people like Jonathon Kay and all those newz media types guilty of writing war propaganda and murdering the facts: 9/11 is an ongoing investigation. There has been no legitimate trial in a court of law. Why not? Because legitimate criminal trials usually happen some time after a legitimate investigation of the actual crime takes place. And that hasn't happened yet either. 9/11 needs to be dealt with by a World Court in the style and with the authority of Nuremberg 1945-46 at the Palace of Justice. 

9/11 was a crime, and those who funded and orchestrated 9/11 are still out there and probably spanning several countries from the USA to Saudi Arabia. We have whistleblowers galore, and the most gagged woman in US history all willing to testify against the insiders and high ranking US fascists.  9/11 was a real crime and demands real justice under democratic control not the shananigans of a 9/11 Commission cover-up. 

Fidel

Lefauve wrote:
Fidel, All the theory on 9/11 don't stand the chance when we test the argument, At the CBC's Enquête serie they done an investigation on the 9/11 theorie they interview the main suporter of the theory and various independant expert one of them was an renow demolition expert with decade of experience behind his belt. He explain every phenomena during the colapse of the tower. The theory also lack in the end goal, the availability of other mean!
">http://www.radio-canada.ca/emissions/enquete/2009-2010/Reportage.asp?idD...

That's not what 1500+ engineers are saying. And it's not what courageous whistleblowers have said either. 

In fact, it's not what eye witnesses said about hearing dozens of explosions going off all throughout the building collapses including that one which no planes collided with. What kind of investigation into mass murder ignores the accounts of hundreds of on-site eye witnesses to the event? What kind of investigation ignores their own hand-picked 9/11 Commissioners telling the world that they were lied to constantly by the CIA and US Military officials during what was a lesson in US Government obstruction of justice? 

If 9/11 had occurred in the former USSR, all these people referring to truthers as conspiracy theorists would suddenly become anti-government conspiracy theorists themselves. Most of these people would require little convincing that the Russian government, too, has been guilty of false flag terrorism and ordering mafia style hits on news journalists "over zelous" in their criticisms of government.

What non-truthers would have us believe is that after all those US Government lies in the 2000s, they were suddenly capable of telling the truth WRT 9/11. Or the more subtle US Government apologism tends to parrot the CIA's own blowback baloney regarding their very own al-CIA'da terrorists on the US Government payroll since 1980s Afghanistan, most of who stand accused of perp'ing 9/11 fought for the CIA in 1980s Afghanistan. 9/11 wasn't hatched in Afghanistan or Iraq as Dick Cheney and Rumsfeld continue to tell rich people at $1000 dollar a plate pig roasts. 9/11 was hatched there in America and Europe by their own mujahideen freedom fighters and with full knowledge and surveillance by the US FBI, CIA and US Military. They were warned repeatedly that their own right wing fundamentalists were planning to attack the US. How much they knew is still to be determined, but it looks like they knew well ahead of time and before dozens of intel agencies around the world rang alarm bells for them. It's like a man in a court of law being asked what prior business dealings he had with the very people who murdered his own family members under his charge at the time. And he refuses to answer the question. Refuses to take the stand, and even refuses to address the accusation. Uncle Sam and London were well connected to most of the 9/11 hijackers, as well as those who financed 9/11 terror. They knew that and yet decided to march an army across sovereign borders of countries that had nothing to do with 9/11. Now they are into war crimes big time and are in a league with the former Nazis of 1939-1945. These are actual war crimes now and demanding a World Court of law with actual powers of subpoena to demand actual truth from actual war criminals. And like the perpetrators of false flag terror at Gleiwitz leading to the illegal attack on Poland, these war criminals should be forced to admit their crimes against peace and crimes against humanity to the world.

Lefauve

Jacob Two-Two wrote:

It is not a conspiracy theory to say that the biggest security failure in the history of the US needs to have a real impartial investigation. That's just common sense. If a hospital burned down, there would be one, but not for the WTC attacks. I find it absolutely stunning that people scoff at this notion. What's to be said about such an attitude? Apparently, the bigger the disaster, the less anyone needs to look into it, in the minds of some.

If you really believe that the so-called "truthers" are full of crap, then you should be joining them in calling for a full independent investigation so that this can finally be put to bed. That's what eventually convinced me that the anti-vaccine crowd was wrong. Not a load of self-satisfied mockery, but real, credible investigations by impartial scientists. Once we get the same for the WTC attacks, then we can all start talking rationally about it. So why hasn't it happened? 

The congress did make an inquire. http://www.historycommons.org/entity.jsp?entity=9/11_congressional_inquiry

Fidel

Lefauve wrote:

Can you cite a less partial source,

Sure, youre own source above lists A&Es for 9/11 Truth, 9/11 truth Movement among others as sources of information about 9/11, or all of the information not dealt with by the badly underfunded 9/11 Commission deliberately set up to fail.

Lefauve wrote:
and who are the 1500 engineer, it easy to give a number of expert. If they are 1500 engineer where are 1500 engineering report.

They are hundreds of independent professional engineers and architects with somewhere more than 25000 years of combined experience in their fields of expertise. They've written extensively on FEMA's and the NIST's shoddy investigations. They are published in scientific journals and have given talks with the public across the US and Canada - which is a lot more than the handful of US Government lackies have done since 9/11. They are hundreds of actual engineers and architects who are simply demanding that the NIST does its job as required by US constititional law governing those two particular agencies. 

Lefauve wrote:
Also When did they set up all the explosif the world trade center at the world trade center. they where people all day in the year. Setting the explosif for something so massive would take month if not year of drilling.

Are you saying that the US Military, US secret service, CIA and emergency planning department for NYC(emergencies and terrorism planning aresupposed to be their responsibility, too) were incapable of pulling it off? Because they had offices in that WTC building, the one which fell down on 9/11 after no planes collided with it. They would have had a perfect bird's eye view of everything that happened that day before blowing the building with military grade nanothermite cutter charges developed at the University of California - a university renowned for actually working with the US Military and its many private military contractors to develop insanely murderous WMD.

Lefauve wrote:
Totally undonable by night, more over such work will leave a field behind durring day time. Easy test, try plan yourself the demolition of the tower considerring that you got keep all the work a secret. How will you set up all the explosif?
 

Let's be clear, it is not a requirement for anyone at this point to prove how it was done. That part of the law is not in play here. At least not yet. Scientists and engineers have a saying that the numbers should be allowed to speak for themselves. In this case, 1500 engineers are saying that the numbers and facts speak for themselves. What 1500 independent engineers have done is to prove reasonable doubt with respect to the Government's explanation for collapse initiation of 7WTC, WTC1&2 proposed by two guys, one of whom is an actual mechanical engineer educated in the former USSR and sponsored by the US Government at a time when the cold war raged on without end. And the NIST guys say their own collape initiation theory isn't very likely to have occurred WRT the total collapse of 7WTC on 9/11. Not very likely at all. The NIST is obligated by US law to provide a reasonable explanation for the worst building collapses in history. It's the law, and the law is on side with 1500+ independent engineers not the Bush era government guys or their lackies today under the gun and with little recourse and no established protocol for blowing the whistle on their government bosses. 

Lefauve

Fidel wrote:

Lefauve wrote:
Fidel, All the theory on 9/11 don't stand the chance when we test the argument, At the CBC's Enquête serie they done an investigation on the 9/11 theorie they interview the main suporter of the theory and various independant expert one of them was an renow demolition expert with decade of experience behind his belt. He explain every phenomena during the colapse of the tower. The theory also lack in the end goal, the availability of other mean!
">http://www.radio-canada.ca/emissions/enquete/2009-2010/Reportage.asp?idD...

That's not what 1500+ engineers are saying. And it's not what courageous whistleblowers have said either. 

In fact, it's not what eye witnesses said about hearing dozens of explosions going off all throughout the building collapses including that one which no planes collided with. What kind of investigation into mass murder ignores over 100 on-site eye witnesses to the event? What kind of investigation ignores their own hand-picked 9/11 Commissioners telling the world that they were lied to constantly by the CIA and US Military officials during what was a lesson in US Government obstruction of justice? 

Can you cite a less partial source, and who are the 1500 engineer, it easy to give a number of expert. If they are 1500 engineer where are 1500 engineering report. Also When did they set up all the explosif the world trade center. They where people all day in the year.

Setting the explosif for something so massive would take month if not year of drilling. Totally undonable by night, more over such work will leave a field behind durring day time.

Easy test, try plan yourself the demolition of the tower considerring that you got keep all the work a secret.
How will you set up all the explosif?
How will you transport all the explosive unnoticed?
how will you hide the work area?
Where are you getting the fund of such operation?
Who will you hire for the job? When are you doing the job?
How long the work will last?

making fall one of the longest tower in the world is a heck of a job.
doing it unnoticed is imposible.

Lefauve

Fidel wrote:

Lefauve wrote:

Can you cite a less partial source,

Sure, youre own source above lists A&Es for 9/11 Truth, 9/11 truth Movement among others as sources of information about 9/11, or all of the information not dealt with by the badly underfunded 9/11 Commission deliberately set up to fail.

How elected people can set such operation in less that two year.

Quote:

They are hundreds of independent professional engineers and architects with somewhere more than 25000 years of combined experience in their fields of expertise. They've written extensively on FEMA's and the NIST's shoddy investigations.

Name please with the field of competence.

By the way an achetects is good to rise building. Demolition at that size is an expertize itself.

Quote:

They are published in scientific journals and have given talks with the public across the US and Canada - which is a lot more than the handful of US Government lackies have done since 9/11. They are hundreds of actual engineers and architects who are simply demanding that the NIST does its job as required by US constititional law governing those two particular agencies. 

Yet again, who!

Also i got my own jugement that allow me to evaluate the pertinance of each expert.

If you want to make a call to expertise you got to show your expert report.

also my demolition expert is an independant contractor.

Quote:

Are you saying that the US Military, US secret service, CIA and emergency planning department for NYC(emergencies and terrorism planning aresupposed to be their responsibility, too) were incapable of pull it

 

They are expert, not miracle worker with limitless resource.

Just watch some demolition show on discovery channel when the blast a little stadium and multiply the difficulty by an 100 for the size then by a 1000 for doing it under covers

Quote:

Let's be clear, it is not a requirement for anyone at this point to prove how it was done.

Wrong! You got a theory, you got to demonstrate that it donable!
It too easy to advance wild theory without any application plan!

The official theory had already been prooved plausible.

Between two theory i alway choses the most plausible with no logistic defect.

when i compare the two, the official got much less flaw that yours.

wage zombie

Sineed wrote:

My personal fave: the shape-shifting lizard people from another planet who rule the world. (Hey, you can't prove they don't!)

I've heard that by the end of 2012 they'll lose their shapeshifting ability...

Fidel

Someone should remind these people that this is an anti-imperialist forum

Psychologists: Questioning 9/11 Is the Sane Thing To Do

I guess that means if youre not very critical of the crazy Jorge de la yeyo military government that lost the vote count in 2000, then youre probably just an apologist for Yanqui imperialism. And there a lot of those running around these days.

Here is another one of us on the anti-imperialist side of things showing disrespect for non-truthers' everywhere and their personal god of the 2000s, president cokehead and dedicated chickenhawk himself.

[img]http://i337.photobucket.com/albums/n385/falloutboysshexy/2r3xx1y.gif[/img]

Lefauve

Fidel wrote:

Someone should remind these people that this is an anti-imperialist forum

Oh! common my friend, don't serve me that. It not because i don't believe in 9/11 conspiracy theory that i'm an imperialist.
Imperialist view of the world begin with Christobal Colombus perhapse even sooner, not with 9/11 drama. Actually i'm at the total oposite of imperialist: i'm a sovreignist. I'm for the sovreignty of every nation in the world and a defender of the right of self determination.

Lefauve

wage zombie wrote:

Sineed wrote:

My personal fave: the shape-shifting lizard people from another planet who rule the world. (Hey, you can't prove they don't!)

I've heard that by the end of 2012 they'll lose their shapeshifting ability...

I'm starting to wonder is there are real people originated from earth here. According to all the wild and crasy, conspiracy theory, almost everybody is an alien!

Fidel

Make that a full order of shapeshifting aliens from zeta retickleya, the same ones who dashed around WTC buildings at lightening speed, and using ACME's finest pixie dust caused hundreds of massive steel support columns to fail simultaneously in far less time than the blink of an eyelid leading to total and utter collapse through rapid acceleration to the ground. Pull the other one, NIST, because that one has bells on.

Lefauve

Fidel,

Your last post sarcasm show me that you are emotionnally involved in that specific case, so before somebody feel humiliated i will stop the debate for the specific of 9/11. But i want to make clear that i don't declare defeat or victory. I simply end it here. For other specific the discussion still continue!

Jacob Two-Two

The congressional inquiry is the exact opposite of what I am talking about. The WTC attacks were a highly political event and congress is a bunch of politicians. To extend my previous analogy, it's like hearing a report about the vaccine debate from the people who make the vaccines. It means nothing to me. The axe they have to grind is too obvious. An event of this magnitude demands an independent impartial investigation that is not rushed or underfunded (or lied to) like the 9/11 commission was. It seems to me that any rational person would join in the call for this to happen.

Fidel

Lefauve wrote:
Fidel, Your last post sarcasm show me that you are emotionnally involved in that specific case, so before somebody feel humiliated i will stop the debate for the specific of 9/11. But i want to make clear that i don't declare defeat or victory. I simply end it here. For other specific the discussion still continue!
 

Very well. But don't you think that an event like 9/11 deserves as much public scrutiny as imperialists themselves have used in making a case for 10 year's worth of liquid war? WW II with all its fascist aggression against peace only lasted six years. This phony global war on terror has gone on for ten years by comparison and counting. Noam Chomsky may believe whatever he does about 9/11, but he also does not believe troops are there in Afghanistan and Iraq etc to fight "Al Qa'eda". The events of 9/11 aside, Al Qaeda is their own creation just as surely as they pumped billions of dollars to mujahideen "freedom fighters", and trained them in black arts of sabotage, car bombings, IEDs, guerilla warfare, and, yes, the US Military and British SAS etc trained them in the art of hijacking planes. Al CIA'da is them. 

The only problem with pulling the wool over peoples' eyes in America, Britain, Canada etc is this. The US wrote the book on forensic science and legal procedures. And very many Americans and Canadians understand when they've been deliberately lied to by government. Truth seekers today are not young and inexperienced people of the 1960s protesting an illegal and immoral war in Viet Nam. Today's truth seekers, like those Americans and Canadians who eventually joined the young hippees in open protests against war, are ordinary everyday people, professionals, firefighters, nurses, engineers, doctors, scientists, military and intelligence officers, lawyers, psychologists, and even government whistleblowers. There will be no pulling the wool over their eyes for the sake of warfiteering and imperialist aggression abroad.

mmphosis

I didn't do it.

Lefauve wrote:

Also When did they set up all the explosif the world trade center.They where people all day in the year. Setting the explosif for something so massive would take month if not year of drilling. Totally undonable by night, more over such work will leave a field behind durring day time. Easy test, try plan yourself the demolition of the tower considerring that you got keep all the work a secret. How will you set up all the explosif? How will you transport all the explosive unnoticed? how will you hide the work area?

When are you doing the job? How long the work will last?

George W. Bush was appointed president at the beginning of 2001 even though Al Gore got more votes.  Years, maybe a decade, of planning had to be in place already for the "Pearl Harbor" event.  The movie Pearl Harbor even came out that summer.  All that time leading up, George W. Bush was a lame duck president, doing little but hanging out at his ranch.

Securacom from 1993-2000, which maintained security for the World Trade Center Towers up until September 11, 2001.

Maybe the weekend prior the doors to the WTC were unlocked because "network infrastructure" was being installed.  Lots of noise from ongoing construction heard by office workers.

Not necessary to use explosif.  Something a little more exotic, maybe thermite, maybe nanothermite.

Lefauve wrote:

Where are you getting the fund of such operation?

September 10, 2001:  Pentagon admits $2.3 Trillion missing

But, that's just one possibility of many.

Lefauve wrote:

Who will you hire for the job?

Dead guys.

Lefauve wrote:

making fall one of the longest tower in the world is a heck of a job. doing it unnoticed is imposible.

This is true.  Free fall implosions of towers reportedly due to fire is unprecedented.  The many anomalies have not gone unnoticed, especially the big one that few people talk about:

motive.

Fidel

And let's face it, this line of counter-questioning that says truthers must prove exactly how sabotage of 7WTC was carried out is sidetracking the issue and irrelevant for the time being. 7WTC was home to the CIA's largest field office as well as the Dept of Defense and secret service. If anyone could have pulled it off, they were in perfect position with bird's eye view  to orchestrate building demolitions on 9/11. We're talking about Gladio ringleaders, or the most secretive government agencies in history and the very ones accused of obstruction of justice during the Commission cover-up.

A&E's for 9/11 Truth aren't actually dealing in conspiracy theory nor are they suggesting that it was an inside job, at least not for the purposes of pushing for a legitimate investigation. US law is on the side of 1500+ A&Es for 9/11 truth and not those involved in the ongoing cover-up. Conspiracy theorizing has nothing to do with US building and fire code laws. A&Es for truth are approaching it from an entirely legal POV.

The Glasnost is half full.

Brian White

What is the difference between truthers,  birthers and swiftboaters?  Would it be fair to question the objectivity of these people?

Would it be fair to bar them forever from a career in science?

 We also had the race based differences in the  beliefs about the guilt of  a certain football playing guy who ended up doing time.   If this thread shows anything, it might be that certain people need to be exempted for ever from Jury service.

About those towers,  anyone want to model the falling of them in the  mathematica framework?   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematica

I would think it has already been done.

Now, the only thing is that you have to abide by the results.  Can you do that?

 I personally don't care if it was all cgi or not. I don't care if it was decepticons and Michael Bay or if it was the Israeli secret service.

Maybe in 100 years all tall buildings will be demolished by planes with full fuel tanks. Who knows?

Fidel

And James Quintiere PhD is listed as a debunker for NIST in that now defamed Popular Mechanix rinkydink alleged to debunk 9/11 conspiracy theories.  Dr. Quintiere is actually a critic of the NIST's botched investigation of the collapses. And there were a lot of strawman args from the crazy George Dubya wackos then.

1500+ engineers for truth and growing. The wackos are outnumbered now.

knownothing knownothing's picture

Sineed wrote:

There's a book called, "Among the Truthers," by Jonathon Kay, that explores the psychology behind conspiracy theories. He focuses on 9/11 truthers, but also covers vaccine conspiracists, holocaust deniers, climate change skeptics etc. He explains why you can't argue with these people; ie, if there's evidence against their theory, they respond with something like, "How convenient."

Conspiracy theories have tended to thrive in troubled times, when trust in authority has been shaken. The main drivers of these theories are intelligent people with a lot of free time on their hands. And almost exclusively male for some reason.

Oh Jonathan Kay, thank you for your wisdom. I should trust the government more you are right!

clandestiny

here's my list of biggest, worst plots ie 'conspiracies', against the common wealth:

1) blaming the USSR for division of Germany in '45, the Cold war, Iron curtain and forcing USSR to try compete in arms/space race with imperialism mister pig...who aided /betted the fascism that caused the war in 1st place

2) murdering Trotsky in 1940 and blaming Stalin, then murdering Roosevelt so harry truman could begin anti communist crusade, ultimately destroying USSR

3) the posoning of Pope John Paul 1st to replace him with anti communist Karol Woyjita in '78- Pope John the 23rd also had been poisoned years earlier (cuz he wasn't enogh a rightwinger)

3) hiding the science behind  'untan',  the potion(?)  developed in 1898 by suntan lotion companies, that, unlike their suntan oil, actually makes dark and black people whiter...genetic engineeering of skin/eye/hair colour is never mentioned in/by pig media, because it terrifies racists, who need racism to divide/conquer humanity

4) the same math that put computer vitus' into computers is being tweaked to install brain aneurisms  into human brains via electromagnetic radio waves. Mister pig wants to be able to kill anyone, anytime, and the brain aneurisms can be activated by exposure to tv or even cell phone signals etc It's terrorism pure and simple, to crush any questioning in the future

5) the power generated by a nuclear power plant for a year can be stored in one bus size tank re compressed air. ALL the air on earth theoretically, can be stored in a cube the size of a gambling dice. In 1924, Robert Loeb of the 'Leopold/ Loeb' murder fame used his mother's electric car key to steal other Milburn electrics, which were quite common (the 2 boys actually were caught in stolen Milburn one time. Early electric cars used compressed air dynamo  or batteries) Compressed air technology has be suppressed to force dependence upon fossil fuels

C'mon, the bush (o'bama) harper crowd HATES us all, regardless of  our politics and they will destroy civilization rather then face any justice or allow nature to take its course. For example, tens of millions have been spent promoting 'correct' morality (porn industry has 5 times profit as hollyweird, so the fascist rightwing must do something) despite human nature

Brian White

Do you believe all 5 of them? And who is Mr Pig? With no. 5, (the compressed air bus) theoretically the mass of the atmosphere is  5.27 X 10^18 kg. How are you going to keep that weight of air as a gas when you compress it? 5 270,000,000,000,000,000 kg  (give or take a zero or 2)  in a bus!  Long before you get it all compressed, the bus will become so dense that it will sink to the center of the earth.

Even the idea of the power generated by a nuclear power plant for a year! being stored in a bus sized tank of compressed air, is absolute rubbish and it is very easy to prove. Now, granted, I plucked the mass of the atmosphere off of the net but even if it is badly wrong, it shows some of the problems with your statement.

Fidel

Number one looks to be about right. The Sovs apparently were not the threat that people were brainwashed into believing for over 70 years. The Wall came down, and the Gladio Gang hasn't stopped pushing Eastward ever since. 

clandestiny

Brian White wrote:

Do you believe all 5 of them? And who is Mr Pig? With no. 5, (the compressed air bus) theoretically the mass of the atmosphere is  5.27 X 10^18 kg. How are you going to keep that weight of air as a gas when you compress it? 5 270,000,000,000,000,000 kg  (give or take a zero or 2)  in a bus!  Long before you get it all compressed, the bus will become so dense that it will sink to the center of the earth.

Even the idea of the power generated by a nuclear power plant for a year! being stored in a bus sized tank of compressed air, is absolute rubbish and it is very easy to prove. Now, granted, I plucked the mass of the atmosphere off of the net but even if it is badly wrong, it shows some of the problems with your statement.

Mister pig is the demographic that 'controls' the effective news/info media. There is effective control of news info and the political energy of rightwing (the left dinnae count- see Michael Lind's 'Up from Conservativism') regardless of the facts. Best recent example of this is the $700 billion (that's $700 thousand million dollars) bankster bailout in '08 DESPITE almost 99 percent opposition (as reported, very gently, in all the polls) to any bailout by dems, repubs and independents! We are a democracy, and when 99% oppose ANYTHING, then surely it's no go, but....look at the results! Same with the war in Iraq....only the fascasts supported it, with the militarily-tooled spending and economic forces going along. Same with nuke energy. The ruling class gangsters just do it, and the media aids/abetts them by wasting time crying about Dr Morrow or OJ or shark attacks on teeners etc...As far as the compressed air (as way to store power, massively) idea, it's obvious that the anti-sustainable energy crowd are being allowed to ignore  mass energy storage using 1) compressed air 2) water towers and the history of our society in order to say, aloud on tv, that wind and solar energy CAN'T WORK because they are intermittent power sources etc! In the movie 'who killed the electric car' they discuss some guy who invented a 'super battery' and was bought off by industry...well they do not mention it use simple compress air, just like batteries built for model t's and submarines!

Btw, there one 'conspiracy' on list I forgot to note. Namely, almost all modern large contructions that require concrete have demo charges built in....the explosives last forever and ...well it's too easy/convenient for the property developers and moneymen not to utilize. But, obviously, such idea are almost unmentionable- if widely known (just one spark can destroy the building!) there'd be riots! The WTC was wired for demolition since 1974, and, the killers used what was available. Nudge wink. Someone once said that lying (sin) starts out as transgression, then becomes habit, then becomes necessity.

500_Apples

The problem with some of the dumb arguments presented by the coincidence theorists is that many conspiracy theories have actually taken place:

 - Burning of the Reichstag

 - Removal of Salvador Allende

 - Removal of Mohammed Mossadegh

 - TARP bailouts.

 - The holocaust

The reason that men are more likely to believe in these theories is simple: men have inferior social skills, and are as such more likely to reject authority and social conformity. If you meet with conspiracy theories, you'll see that they're not just male, but rather they tend to be on the Asperger's spectrum. Women don't "suffer" from Asperger's nearly as often as men do.

The most common argument I get from acquaintances in support of Obama or the banks is effectively that they want to be cool. They want to fit in by agreeing with the New York Times.

Fidel

And if we asked the same people what they thought of chances that the former Soviet Union was guilty of orchestrating acts of false flag terror, they would likely have no trouble believing it. Those kinds of people were perfectly agreeable with Ronald Raygun's "evil empire" rhetoric for years on end. That mentality still exists today. They tend to keep quiet about it though and especially around talk of 9/11. Today, though, they are busy circling the wagons around NATO and any wild conspiracy theories suggesting that the global situation is still not on the level.

The Glasnost is half-full.

jas

500_Apples wrote:

The problem with some of the dumb arguments presented by the coincidence theorists is that many conspiracies have actually taken place:

 - Burning of the Reichstag

 - Removal of Salvador Allende

 - Removal of Mohammed Mossadegh

 - TARP bailouts.

 - The holocaust

....

The most common argument I get from acquaintances in support of Obama or the banks is effectively that they want to be cool. They want to fit in by agreeing with the New York Times.

Thanks for this, Apples.

 

Found this recently:

9/11 Skeptopathy: Pathological Skepticism In Support of the Falsified Official Story

 

Fidel

Good one, jas. But instead, non-truthers made a beeline for the loco George II hypothesis: the one that says Elvis bin Laden and 19 hikackers did it all by their lonesomes. And for Christ's sake stop asking questions because it's unAmerican.

Brian White

Why not, Fidel?  It is not as hard as landing a plane, is it?  Taxi drivers put carbombs in the basement of the towers. It shook but didn't come down. It has been target no 1 for years. Do you remember those brave Japaneese boy bombers from ww2?  (who flew planes straight at ships)  Or maybe the US carriers were self sunk?

Yeah, that is what happened.  Seriously, babble needs a break from this. This is why it loses credibility.

 

Fidel

Brian White wrote:

Why not, Fidel?  It is not as hard as landing a plane, is it?  Taxi drivers put carbombs in the basement of the towers. It shook but didn't come down. It has been target no 1 for years.

You must be talking about U.S. Army Sargent and Al Qa'eda hijacking specialist Ali Mohamed who was involved in just about every aspect of the '93 WTC bombing except the making of the bomb itself. Am I warm? Or is this just another aspect of 9/11 which your pseudo-scientific, unskeptical and generally naive outlook undermines any hope for a credible opinion you may think you have on the matter? And keep one eye on the weather - I think it's panty bomber season again. Pff!

Brian, I'm sorry to have to suggest that it may not have been the CIA's freedom fighters acting alone who bombed the WTC in 1993 and flew planes into them in 2001. I'm very sorry to have to suggest to you that the motherfuckers were deeply involved in murdering their own citizens on 9/11. Have you even considered the possibility? Or will you continue deferring to whatever it was crazy George Bush said about it?

Brian White wrote:
Do you remember those brave Japaneese boy bombers from ww2? (who flew planes straight at ships) Or maybe the US carriers were self sunk?

Col. Robert L McCormick was quoted in a 1942 Chicago Tribune article saying that the U.S. had broken the Japanese' communications codes. The Yanks likely had Midway all planned out before it unfolded, and they likely knew about Pearl Harbor before it happened, too, just like they knew all about Al-CIA'duh's planned attacks on the WTC and Pentagon well beforehand and did less than nothing to prevent it. Don't be naive, Brian, there is a lot of money involved in warfiteering. More money and political influence than you and I will ever know.

Brian White

Frankly, Fidel, I don't give a damn.  I guess the ruin of babble is an inside job too. Otherwise why would they let the towers nonsense go on so long?

You should have been suspended long long ago for continueing with this stuff.

 It is scientific to  run with the simplest solution.

Are you now  claiming that the americans brainwashed japaneese kamikaze pilots into destroying american ships?  

Why bother?

Why not just brainwash them to stay at home?

Timebandit Timebandit's picture

500_Apples wrote:

The problem with some of the dumb arguments presented by the coincidence theorists is that many conspiracy theories have actually taken place:

 - Burning of the Reichstag

 - Removal of Salvador Allende

 - Removal of Mohammed Mossadegh

 - TARP bailouts.

 - The holocaust

The reason that men are more likely to believe in these theories is simple: men have inferior social skills, and are as such more likely to reject authority and social conformity. If you meet with conspiracy theories, you'll see that they're not just male, but rather they tend to be on the Asperger's spectrum. Women don't "suffer" from Asperger's nearly as often as men do.

The most common argument I get from acquaintances in support of Obama or the banks is effectively that they want to be cool. They want to fit in by agreeing with the New York Times.

What was the length of time it took for each of these to be widely known?

People aren't good at keeping secrets for any length of time.  If there isn't a leak after a certain point, it generally points to the liklihood that the conspiracy is a fiction.

Fidel

Brian White wrote:
It is scientific to run with the simplest solution.

And that's exactly what 1500+ engineers have said about that aspect of the very pseudo-scientific loco George apostasy regarding the 9/11 Commish cover-up. You see? You really can think like a scientist with an objective POV. It's not so difficult, is it? Just say no to U.S. Government lies and the parroting of those lies by our vicious toadies in Ottawa when they answer the call with, READY AYE-READY, UNCLE SAM, WHATEVER YOU SAY ON THE DOUBLE!

Fidel

Timebandit wrote:

People aren't good at keeping secrets for any length of time.  If there isn't a leak after a certain point, it generally points to the liklihood that the conspiracy is a fiction.

The US Government was able to keep this a secret for more than three decades with Soviet spies everywhere under their beds and hiding behind trees. How do you explain that?

Timebandit Timebandit's picture

I'd say it's a poor example.  The events that 500_Apples mentioned were obvious events that were portrayed as something other than what they were.  "This" was a classified military program that had no direct discernable effect on the general population.  I'm not sure there's much of a comparison to make.

Fidel

Timebandit wrote:

I'd say it's a poor example.  The events that 500_Apples mentioned were obvious events that were portrayed as something other than what they were.  "This" was a classified military program that had no direct discernable effect on the general population.  I'm not sure there's much of a comparison to make.

 

Well I think you're wrong on all accounts. First you said that people in general can't keep a secret. And that's not true with all kinds of examples at our disposal. We know they desperately wanted to keep Corona a secret from the public with about a dozen rocket failures before a successful launch. That takes special effort. So you're wrong from a point of view that the US Government is very capable of keeping secrets from the public. It's all there with two 9/11 Chair people telling the world that they were lied to by the CIA and Pentagon. Two of their hand-picked commissioners have blown the whistle right off the bat. And there are more whistleblowers who have made their concerns public since 9/11. In fact, the big 9/11 secret was blown some time ago by patriotic Americans concerned about the deep-seated corruption in US Government and general lack of transparency and accountability to the US public. 

And the US Government isn't all people in general. There are at least 38 levels of security clearance in the military alone. And most all private contractors of the US Military, thousands of them, are obligated by law to comply with US Government security protocol. It's a system of security that dictates no group of people can know all of the details regarding a specific military or government project. And their preferred contractors operate much the same way with various levels of security clearance in ascending order of need to know. Anyone in the military found to be in breach of any of a shitload number of security protocols could possibly be shot to death on the spot no questions asked. Security in the US Military is serious business as far as the feds are concerned. And apparently you have no idea.

A Guide to the 9/11 Whistleblowers Brave Americans blowing whistles loud and clear in spite of a lack of protocol for protecting those courageous enough to sound the alarm

The Glasnost is half full.

Timebandit Timebandit's picture

Fidel, you are, as usual, a virtuoso of the obtuse.  I seriously worry about the level of fervour with which you hold these crackpot beliefs.

500_Apples

Timebandit wrote:

500_Apples wrote:

The problem with some of the dumb arguments presented by the coincidence theorists is that many conspiracy theories have actually taken place:

 - Burning of the Reichstag

 - Removal of Salvador Allende

 - Removal of Mohammed Mossadegh

 - TARP bailouts.

 - The holocaust

The reason that men are more likely to believe in these theories is simple: men have inferior social skills, and are as such more likely to reject authority and social conformity. If you meet with conspiracy theories, you'll see that they're not just male, but rather they tend to be on the Asperger's spectrum. Women don't "suffer" from Asperger's nearly as often as men do.

The most common argument I get from acquaintances in support of Obama or the banks is effectively that they want to be cool. They want to fit in by agreeing with the New York Times.

What was the length of time it took for each of these to be widely known?

People aren't good at keeping secrets for any length of time.  If there isn't a leak after a certain point, it generally points to the liklihood that the conspiracy is a fiction.

The only reason the holocaust and the Reichstag have been recognized is that Germany lost the war, not because of the passage of time.

Note how there are still people who deny that the Briitish and French exterminated the American aboriginals, in fact most of the north american population does so.

Simiarly with Iran 1953. Would anybody know if not for Iran 1978? No.

It has nothing to do with gossips having a hard time keeping their mouth shut.

Unionist

Sineed wrote:

My personal fave: the shape-shifting lizard people from another planet who rule the world.

Your point?

Quote:
(Hey, you can't prove they don't!)

How convenient.

 

mmphosis

Quote:
Why the wild and crasy plot theory still live so long
For war and profit.

To paraphrase,

former Prime Minister Paul Martin on CBC (early 2004 shortly after becoming Prime Minister) he might as well have wrote:
After the "wild and crasy plot theory" of 9/11 things will never be the same.

War in this century will be extended indefinitely.

I wish I could replay the video of Paul Martin on the CBC repeating the "since 9/11 things will never be the same" mantra. And, he definitely was pushing for Canada's involvement in war even though the majority of Canadians have always been opposed to it. Unfortunately, it has become next to impossible to get footage from our public, but corporate, broadcaster.

The wild and crasy plot theory still lives so long because otherwise there is absolutely no reason to continue warring.

jas

Timebandit wrote:

What was the length of time it took for each of these to be widely known?

People aren't good at keeping secrets for any length of time.  If there isn't a leak after a certain point, it generally points to the liklihood that the conspiracy is a fiction.

 

Apart from the fact that there have been and continue to be whistleblowers on 9/11 events, Timebandit, do you believe in CIA mind control experimentation? Sounds kooky, doesn't it? How long did this go on before it was made public knowledge?

http://baltimorechronicle.com/2010/021610Lendman.shtml

Fidel

Timebandit wrote:

Fidel, you are, as usual, a virtuoso of the obtuse.  I seriously worry about the level of fervour with which you hold these crackpot beliefs.

 

Well if you are incapable of making any sense whatsoever, then always resort to personal attacks as a way out. I tend not to blurt out what I think of you and your various ramblings on the corporatocracy and US Military dictatorship, but that's because I am able to exercise a certain amount of restraint.

And so just to summarise, none of the weak apologetics youve posted so far makes them out to be any less the murdering psychopaths that they are. Check.

jas

Brian White wrote:

Frankly, Fidel, I don't give a damn.  I guess the ruin of babble is an inside job too. Otherwise why would they let the towers nonsense go on so long?

You should have been suspended long long ago for continueing with this stuff.

 

And what are you talking about here? We haven't had any real threads on the towers here for over a year. How is this "ruining" Babble??

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