BC NDP now 18 points ahead of Liberals

105 posts / 0 new
Last post
Stockholm
BC NDP now 18 points ahead of Liberals

Check out these new devastating numbers (if you're a rightwinger) from BC. The NDP is now 18 points ahead of the BC Liberals!

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/surges+biggest+poll+lead+since+Liberals...

Wouldn't it be great if Kash Heed was charged and had to resign his seat - any byelection in BC would be like taking candy from a baby!

bekayne

From the article:

The poll found that a newly created centre-left party could form the government if it ran in the May 2013 election.

When asked, 34 per cent of people said they would vote for the new party, ahead of 28 per cent who said they would vote NDP. A new centre-left party would relegate the B.C. Liberals to third, the poll found.

The poll also found that a new party on the right would also shake up B.C.'s political landscape.

A centre-right party would split the vote on the right, handing the NDP victory and reducing Liberal support to just 15 per cent.

David Young

With a B.C. election still 2+ years away, will these figures have any effect on federal voting patterns?

theleftyinvestor

Well I guess we'll see if the recall HST petition goes anywhere. If it does, it may embolden citizens to initiate recall campaigns for Liberals in November when the waiting period has elapsed.

BUT... if the petition actually goes through, the NDP will be in the uncomfortable position of establishing a platform based on anti-tax campaigns after a recession.

N.Beltov N.Beltov's picture

Anti-tax campaigns mostly reflect a right-wing agenda. Ultra conservative and former Premier Vander Zalm is leading the charge on the anti-HST campaign here in BC.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

theleftyinvestor wrote:

Well I guess we'll see if the recall HST petition goes anywhere. If it does, it may embolden citizens to initiate recall campaigns for Liberals in November when the waiting period has elapsed.

BUT... if the petition actually goes through, the NDP will be in the uncomfortable position of establishing a platform based on anti-tax campaigns after a recession.

The referendum by the way is non-binding on the government just to highlight the futility of the idea. 

The BC NDP has spent two elections running primarily as an anti-tax party.  It seems its traditional base is ready for a different vehicle given the fact that a center left alternative would beat out the NDP. 

Fidel

[url=http://www.progressive-economics.ca/2010/03/17/mcguinty-ccpa-hst/]Erin Weir[/url] of Progressive Economics forum says that in Ontario, the overall tax package of corporate tax cuts and HST will likely result in a net loss of tax revs for the McGuinty government. Herbert Hoover never died. I can't imagine political Liberals anywhere in Canada wanting to expand public services either. Their federal counterparts signed us all up for NAFTA and for years after, they  refused to establish Canadian public interests with a national daycare program. Campbell is Mr TILMA, which is all about opening up provincial governments for more sue jobs in the event they step on the toes of our absentee corporate landlords. We used to have a country.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Fidel what exactly does your post have to do with the topic of the BC NDP and its polling numbers?  Ontario and McGuinty actually don't rule out here.  Please start a thread about your issue if that is what you want to discuss.

Jacob Richter

N.Beltov wrote:
Anti-tax campaigns mostly reflect a right-wing agenda. Ultra conservative and former Premier Vander Zalm is leading the charge on the anti-HST campaign here in BC.

It depends on the tax.  I like seeing "anti-tax" campaigns against consumption-based sales taxes (whether it's the GST or HST).

Fidel

kropotkin1951 wrote:

Fidel what exactly does your post have to do with the topic of the BC NDP and its polling numbers?  Ontario and McGuinty actually don't rule out here.  Please start a thread about your issue if that is what you want to discuss.

If you read the two posts prior to mine, then my post and comments to those posters(as in, not you) should make some sense. And thanks for dragging us back on-topic to this narrowly focused discussion of polling numbers and polling numbers exclusive of everything else no matter what.

Lord Palmerston

N.Beltov wrote:

Anti-tax campaigns mostly reflect a right-wing agenda. Ultra conservative and former Premier Vander Zalm is leading the charge on the anti-HST campaign here in BC.

Exactly.  You're not going to get much of a progressive agenda if your main plank is opposing taxes.

Unionist

Since the government's main source of revenue is taxes, why not get rid of government while we're at it?

Just imagine how much we'd save on elections.

 

N.Beltov N.Beltov's picture

You should add a little tongue in cheek icon just to be sure that everyone knows that you're kidding.

I cannot remember if it was a babbler or an article by a CCPA author, but the point has been made here as well about the likely harm that comes from a short-sighted anti-tax campaign "from the left". The most important message from the left is that taxes fund the programs that we care about and that the tax system should take more from the rich than from the poor. It's not that fricking complicated.

Carry on.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Fidel not everything is about Ontario politics and how the NDP relates to it.  I was trying to bring it back to the province of BC.  But hey the centre of the universe rules right everything in the fucking country is about the Ontario NDP.

Anti-tax parties that want to deliver social services are an oxymoron.  The poll highlights that the current leadership of the BC NDP is out of touch with its base.  If more people from the left would support any left alternative than the current party maybe its time it got the message that it needs to get back to being a left wing social democratic party not a populist liberal party.

Fidel

Okay then. I apologize for comparing Victoria's Herbert Hoovers in government to Toronto's Herbert Hoovers wrt taxation. Those  babblers I've apparently upset can now carry on with their usual NDP bashing. Scuse.

Lord Palmerston

Excellent posts, Beltov and kropotkin.

 

Lord Palmerston

Quote:
Anti-tax parties that want to deliver social services are an oxymoron.

[url=http://www.thestar.com/comment/article/715565]Hugh Mackenzie: Can we have an adult conversation about taxes?[/url]

Fidel

Lord Palmerston wrote:

Quote:
Anti-tax parties that want to deliver social services are an oxymoron.

[url=http://www.thestar.com/comment/article/715565]Hugh Mackenzie: Can we have an adult conversation about taxes?[/url]

This strange debate that separates taxes from the services they pay for would be little more than a political oddity if it weren't for the fact that as Canadians confront the challenges of global warming, economic dislocation and an aging population, we're going to need to make significant new public investments.

I'm an adult, and I am willing to acknowledge that a certain oil-producing Nordic country tried on a hefty carbon tax for 15 years or so. The Norwegian CO2 tax, which is heftier than anything BC's Liberals propose, did not work to reduce carbon emissions in Norway.

No Liberal government federal or provincial demonstrated any desire to fund expansion of public social programs before neoliberal financial meltdown in North America. The only reason the two provincial Liberal governments in Beautiful British Columbia and Ontariario want to raise taxes Herbert Hoover style is because they are running massive budget deficits. Campbell and McGuinty, like neoliberal Mike Harris before them, are in trouble with money-in and money-out. They merely want to look better on paper before the next elections. Campbell and McGuilty are both closet neoliberal ideologues with only a half-assed political conviction to carry through with the failing ideology for dreg-ulation and privatization/theft of the commons.

But funding new social programs? Give us a fucking break! Not even the NDP believes a federal government could afford to expand very many new social programs at the national level and using federal powers of taxation a la Nordic social democracies. At least, not in a first four year term for the federal NDP, and not at this time of meltdown of the rightwing voodoo installed in and impregnated in this country over the last 30-35 years. GST flip-flops and NAFTA betrayals are for that other wing of the conservative party in Ottawa on the outside looking in.

N.Beltov N.Beltov's picture

The BC NDP really failed to offer much of an alternative in the most recent provincial election. They mishandled at least one issue in a big way. I don't think it would be unfair to depict their general approach as one that was planning for "the next" election, with the idea of letting the BC "Liberals" take the blame for the consequences of the global financial and economic crisis.

There are, however,  some hopeful signs on the horizon, such as the Coalition to Build a Better BC.  The Liberals are already doing a great deal of harm, in areas such as chronic and limb-severing underfunding of education, police-state Olympic practices, cuts in general due to those very same Olympics, etc., etc., etc. ...

Fidel

I think that the BC NDP is looking better and better to British Columbians all the time. If an election was held today, Carole James would be premier of B.C., and Campbell would be out on the curb pronto. I do not expect any provincial NDP to be able to create Nordic style social democracy in any one province. That's asking a bit much of any provincial government existing within the top-down neoliberal framework of things in Canada. There are many reasons to vote NDP provincially in B.C. or any other province for that matter.

 

melovesproles

The BCNDP is very capable of shooting itself in the foot and the odds on that just get better the closer to an election we get.  The Axe the Tax, let's hope STV fails, BCNDP of the last election definately didn't speak to me.  If the BCNDP thinks it's path to power lies in a populist anti-government revenue campaign then why don't they go after MSP?  I think that would have been far more popular with the voters they needed to pull in than their opposition to the gas tax.  I have to wonder how much of the revenue from MSP goes into collections agents and bureaucrats seizing and then giving back the premiums to people in low tax brackets.  I know a lot of people who have had money seized because they were late filing their taxes and then had to wait eight months to get their income tax refund back because they made so little during the year.  Wouldn't it be more efficient just to raise income tax for those not exempt instead of wasting all that money hounding low income people and wrongfully seizing their income?

Fidel

Campbell's Liberals are of the same ideological school of thought at the heart of neoliberal financial meltdown. As far as B.C. Liberals are concerned, there is nothing terribly wrong with bubble economics or deregulation and privatization. And I think that if Campbell is responsible for running a budget deficit due to a provincial economy at the mercy of marauding international capital and weakened by tax cuts for those who don't need them, then he should be proud to wear it come next election. But raising taxes on those least able to afford it during a recession, and lowering taxes for those who could afford them has nothing to do with leftwing economics at all. And I am not claiming that the BC Liberals have much of a choice to raise corporate taxes and still expect to compete with Alberta next door for capital investment and jobs within the neoliberal framework. No I am not.

Stockholm

Just as I suspected, the BC NDP is 18 points ahead in the polls and people still react as if its a sign of weakness.

NorthReport

Laughing

Fidel

I think this neoliberal meltdown isn't registering with some people.  Very many people believe this is just another business cycle downturn, and that the economy will roar ahead sometime in the next year or two. And they're badly mistaken. Because all of that neoliberal mumbo jumbo about tying our economic wagon to the great and wonderful US economy was supposedly creating jobs! jobs! jobs! in Canada after 1989-94 is now folly. There will be no real recovery in North America soon. Not until the Yanks decide to ditch that ideology which does not work worth a darn. Only then will our stooges in Ottawa decide to copy-cat whatever is newly in vogue in the US. Until then our two old line parties will have to wear the worn out ideology and all its effects.

Le T Le T's picture

Quote:
Just as I suspected, the BC NDP is 18 points ahead in the polls and people still react as if its a sign of weakness.

 

Yeah, apparently some nerds expect something more than just a horse race. What's all this talk of "policy" and "long-term" blah, blah blah? Politics are so boring. Let's go orange! let's go! Now, where's my beer?

Fidel

Well apparently us NDPers are supposed to see the wisdom in "raising taxes" to pay for social programs. A carbon tax to save the world from destruction by polluting industries theyve given tax breaks to and incentives to continue destroying the environment and selling more fossil fuels to America not less. It all sounds good and straightforward enough, and it's so large an idea that even the BC Liberals can squeeze through and come out smelling like roses before an election. Sorry, but some of us don't see things the way Gordon Campbell and his neoliberal ideologues do. If they can win the next election carrying a growing budget deficit and all the broken campaign promises from last election, then maybe British Columbians actually desire and ask for everything they get after abstaining from voting or for voting Liberal. There's always that possibility.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

If we don't like the BC NDP because they are liberals and not social democrats it is us the voters who are responsible for the NDP losing.  Fidel would you be alright with the Ont. NDP sharing the stage with Harris?  Who the fuck do you think Vander Zalm is?  Those of us who fought his neo-con agenda and his mean spirited attacks on poor people don't so easily forget like you don't forget about Harris.  I remember the shovel campaign therefore I can't think that he is now an ally of poor people.

The polls show that people here want a progressive alternative not people who share the stage with a tea bagger like Vander Zalm.  THe NDP will likely do what it did for the last two elections, try to find a non-ideological populist policy like the two anti-tax campaigns and not speak about real social change hoping that the Liberals will defeat themselves and they will win by default.  IMO that is a piss poor way to get people to vote for social democracy.  The point is to get a social democratic government is it not?  

bekayne

Stockholm wrote:

Just as I suspected, the BC NDP is 18 points ahead in the polls and people still react as if its a sign of weakness.

So hitching yourself to Bill Vander Zalm is a sign of strength?

Fidel

I did start a thread on the history of neoliberalorama in Canada. Apparently it's one of those great unmentionables for some of us lefties. It's as if the last 30 years never happened. This is that time in the game where Campbell's Thatcherites continue pawning off the family jewels and silverware to rich friends of the party and earn tidy commissions on the side while racking up public debt in the mean time. It's what ~24% of registered voters in BC voted for. This is how democracy werks in Bananada.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

I agree and that is why I find it so sickening and disheartening to have the left party in this province riding two to a saddle with The Zalm.  

If you want to have a civilized conversation about BC politics why don't you tell me how you would feel if the leader of NDP in Ontario was sharing a stage with Harris in an anti-tax protest?  

I have never believed lies like the enemy of my enemy is necessarily a friend.  The Zalm is trying to embarrass the Howe Street crowd that ran him out of town and at the same time rehabilitate his own image for posterity.  Not my cup of tea as protests go.

I have been fighting these people all my adult life.  Here is a link to some cartoons "from the day."  Just so as an easterner you get a sense of who The Zalm is.

http://edocs.lib.sfu.ca/cgi-bin/Cartoons?CartoonID=7118

Stockholm

bekayne wrote:

Stockholm wrote:

Just as I suspected, the BC NDP is 18 points ahead in the polls and people still react as if its a sign of weakness.

So hitching yourself to Bill Vander Zalm is a sign of strength?

Apparently it is since the NDP is way ahead...if we happen to agree with Vander Zalm on this particular issue - then so be it. The NDP will be on the ballot not Social Credit under Zalm in 2013.

Fidel

I think that if the Liberals continue [url=http://www.bcndp.ca/newsroom/mla-don-mcrae-mocks-hst-opponents-legislatu... the people who voted for them[/url], they should do really well in the next election.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

The poll seems to point to the fact that a new Gordon Wilson might form government and would certainly become the official opposition.  In 2013 the NDP will not be fighting Gordon Campbell and the political landscape could again shift in BC.  A new third party (sorry Greens you don't count as new anymore either) claiming to be able to stand in the middle between the Howe Street Liberals and the Union Run NDP would only be limited by the quality of its candidates. [please note the characterization above is what the new party would say and are not necessarily the views of this poster]

Fidel you do your party a disservice.  I would very much like to see a social democratic government in BC.  I have worked very hard for that in many elections and in many elected positions within the NDP.  I have not changed my politics I just have had it with the centrists that have lost the elections. The last two elections the party ran against tax policy as the centre of their messaging.  I am tired of the leadership being ashamed to call themselves social democrats let alone socialists.  After losing the last election the invisible hands that run the BC NDP decided the best fix was a to bring back Moe as President. His first statement after losing two elections as a populist party was to tell everyone that the NDP is business friendly.  

I am not wedded to a party like you are FIdel but that does not mean I have not worked as hard as you over the decades or share your dreams I just think the vehicle we have in BC has been run into the ground and not one even lefties like me believes anything the BC NDP says.  

What are you afraid of? The Howe Street crowd will change the name of their party if they lose under the LIberals. Why do we have to be stuck with a brand that is so few people's first choice.  More people picked an alternative to the NDP than the NDP.  

But go ahead shoot the messenger.  Tell me again how it is my fault that we have lost all those elections and will be in the future unless I just shut up and listen to the likes of Mike Farnworth

Fidel

Yes but, how do feel about the NDP being so far ahead in the polls today? What has Campbell done so wrong? Are British Columbians realizing now that the environment, education, and workers are under attack after more false Liberal Party re-election promises?

Stockholm

I find tnhis whole line of questioning about "suppose a new party was created with a centre-left or centre-right ideology" to be absurd. First of all, I would estimate that about 90% of the population couldn't even tell you what "right" and "left" mean in political terms. Second of all, its a bit of a "yes, and if pigs could fly..." type question. No new party is anywhere on the horizon and the same question could be asked in every province and at the federal level and would probably get very high hypothetical support.We have seen thse similar waste of time questions in Quebec asking people if they would support a "new party". Of course it begs the question of why is it that something like 35% of Quebecers say they want a "new party" but they aren't flocking to the ADQ or Quebec Solidaire or the Parti Vert du Quebec?? What EXACTLY do people want they they aren't getting right now?

I think its a bit of a "dog whistle" question where everyone hears what they want to hear and imagines "the perfect party" that wants to cut taxes, improve services, clean-up the environment and be "nice" to everyone. Of course no such party exists. I remember back in the mid-90s a lot of people  claimed to want a new so-called centre-left party in BC  then Gordon Wilson formed the Progressive Democratic Alliance and promptly got 6% of the vote. What exactly would a "new centre-right party" in BC be? There is already a fledgling Conservative Party - what's wrong with that?? Or is it really the level of support for a BC Liberal Party with no GST, no Campbell, no Basi-Virk scandal and Kash Heed etc....

melovesproles

It's even more absurd to think that a poll now has any bearing on the political landscape during an election years from now when Gordon Cambell has been replaced and other issues have increased in importance.  It's obvious that the BC Liberals are going to try a major rebranding and a new leader, what's the point of deliberately underestimating your opponent and pretending a meaningless poll taken not even a year after an election means much of anything?  Dion was polling ahead of Harper a couple of years ago too, Liberal equivalents of Stockholm were counting their chickens then too. 

There is an unsettling feeling of deja vu when you see NDP partisans getting ecstatic about riding a wave of populist anti-tax sentiment years before we go back to the polls.  That's the mistake they made last time with their 'axe the tax' brainfart.  If the BCNDP is always going to be playing two steps behind then I think we can expect to see their lack of success continue.

A new alternative on the left would be a good thing, I think BC could use a feistier party more in the Danny Williams, PQ mode that could take on Harper and would stick up for BC's values and interests.

Fidel

Under the neoliberalorama, provincial governments are free to raise taxes on all citizens and any area of the economy they want to without suffering any consequences whatsoever. And that's why provincial Liberal governments choose to raise taxes on everything from residential fuels and school supplies to safety devices, bicycles and vitamins. Hoser Sales Tax is their version of the Nordic style sin tax. In the Northern Puerto Rico, they want to make it a sin to be poor.

Stockholm

The federal Tories thought that all they had to do was "re-brand" by replacing Mulroney with Kim Campbell and all would be forgiven - remind me what the results of the 1993 election were?

As for BC needing a "fiestier" leftwing party in the Danny Williams/PQ mode - I guess that might work if you are caught in a time warp and think its 1972 and that people are voting for the likes of Dave Barrett as opposed to Wacky Bennett - or maybe even Glen Clark (another flame-out). In this day and age, I think that the days of people in BC wanting a tub-thumping cross between Amor de Cosmo and Wacky Bennett and Dave Barrett are long gone.

melovesproles

Yeah well following Ontarioan NDP partisan advice is surely what the BC NDP needs, their record of success speaks for itself, it surely should be emulated elsewhere.

Fidel

Dave Barrett was another fine leader who Canadians turned their backs on. I met him once at the union hall here in Northern Ontario. He was a scrapper then. Dave went to Washington to fight for a fair deal for Columbia River power generation. Ottawa sent no one to back him up. British Columbians lost again.

RANGER

kropotkin1951 wrote:

If we don't like the BC NDP because they are liberals and not social democrats it is us the voters who are responsible for the NDP losing.  Fidel would you be alright with the Ont. NDP sharing the stage with Harris?  Who the fuck do you think Vander Zalm is?  Those of us who fought his neo-con agenda and his mean spirited attacks on poor people don't so easily forget like you don't forget about Harris.  I remember the shovel campaign therefore I can't think that he is now an ally of poor people.

The polls show that people here want a progressive alternative not people who share the stage with a tea bagger like Vander Zalm.  THe NDP will likely do what it did for the last two elections, try to find a non-ideological populist policy like the two anti-tax campaigns and not speak about real social change hoping that the Liberals will defeat themselves and they will win by default.  IMO that is a piss poor way to get people to vote for social democracy.  The point is to get a social democratic government is it not?  

 

 

I think your losing it a bit here Krop, you forget we where angry at Vanderzalm for wanting to keep us at 3% raise hikes, while in hind sight we worked our asses off to get Clark in just for him to turn around and fuck us over at bargaining time, he pissed me and many others off too so can I blame Carole now? and the polls show 85% or more think Vanderzalm is doing the right thing, so far you and Colin Hansen have been his harshest critic, very odd.

N.Beltov N.Beltov's picture

Fidel, Dave Barrett disgraced himself by giving "Law and Order" speeches during the 1983 Solidarity Coalition events. Rather than helping to mobilize people against the Socred legislative atrocities, Barrett was doing very effective demobilizing of the masses. He's a harmless old guy that drives a Volvo. Can you say "class traitor" ?

Fidel

What I read about the last election was that BCers voted for the party they thought would steer them through tough economic times in the best way.

On the other hand, lefties like Kropotkin say the NDP needs to be up front and agressive when convincing people to vote for social democracy.

These are two seemingly conflicting themes, and I think the Liberal Party campaigners did a better job of convincing people that they can't afford social democracy at a time of ideologically-driven crisis of their own making. Neoliberal meltdown didn't begin with B.C., but the ideologues in that province are neoliberal medicine men just the same.

I agree with Kropotkin in that social democracy has implications for more than just doing the right thing from a social conscience point of view. Social democracy and competitive economies go hand-in-hand. But how do you explain that to voters? And is it doable in one four-year term? Did the Swedes, Danes, Singaporeans and Finlanders create social democracy in one smaller province of those countries inside a four-year political term in power? Was Rome built in four years?

Fidel

N.Beltov wrote:
Fidel, Dave Barrett disgraced himself by giving "Law and Order" speeches during the 1983 Solidarity Coalition events. Rather than helping to mobilize people against the Socred legislative atrocities, Barrett was doing very effective demobilizing of the masses. He's a harmless old guy that drives a Volvo. Can you say "class traitor" ?

I don't blame Dave. I blame the fools who voted Socred and Reform and even ReformaTory, and those who let them win by not voting. It's like they taped signs on their backs that said, "Kick me"

And all those British Columbians who voted Liberal or abstained from voting have signs that read, "I supported what's happening today" taped to their backs. My cousin out there's one of 'em.

 

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

..yes the solidarity days. it was in the air. you could smell a government falling. the plan for a general strike was a good one and had much support. it was also freaking a lot of people out. there were control issues coming from the ndp and some union heads. there was so much pressure at the top that art kube the then president of the bc fed took a medical leave. this is when jack munroe took charge ended up selling out in kelowna. 
..this was real democracy happening and what barrett reflected was a fear of that democracy.

Fidel

Well they certainly have democracy out there now and Campbell's Liberals with 24% of the registered vote, 58% of legislature seats, and 100% dictatorial power. Congratulations are in order for all of the fine people and mathemagical genuses who made it happen. Ontario salutes you, British Columbia!

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

Fidel wrote:

Well they certainly have democracy out there now and Campbell's Liberals with 24% of the registered vote, 58% of legislature seats, and 100% dictatorial power. Congratulations are in order for all of the fine people and mathemagical genuses who made it happen. Ontario salutes you, British Columbia!

..you know we do what we can. hopefully we can learn from our mistakes and mover forward rather than repeat them.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Fidel did it ever occur to you that the numbers you posted above point to the failure of the BC NDP to inspire the voters with their anti-tax bullshit.  

Voters are not stupid they know that social programs cost money.  So the NDP runs against taxes and for social spending.  Gee what a brilliant Liberal strategy to point out that is fiscally impossible and make the BC NDP look like people with not even the most basic understanding of governance and fiscal measures.  

I am pissed because the CABAL that runs the BC NDP has fucked up royally the last two elections especially this last one and they are not changing. They keep insisting that they just need to stay the course and any other tactic proposed by the rank and file is too left wing and will not succeed..

I prefer not to bang my head against the same wall repeatedly no matter whether Moe, Mike and Bruce  tell me it is the ONLY way.

Fidel

In the US, for example, it's a well known fact that whichever party spends the most on electioneering wins the election. It all comes down to who has the largest war chest for financing expensive radio, TV, internet, and newspaper advertising. And that goes for presidential candidates, too. It's a well known fact that whoever Goebbelsizes and propagandizes voters with their political message wins the race. Dollar democracy is not that difficult to figure out, and especially when it comes to our obsolete electoral system.

Kropotkin, observe the [url=http://bc2013.com/2010/04/09/2009-party-annual-finance-reports-released/... donations to the Liberal Party of BC[/url] compared to the NDP.

Using the general Goebbels-American formula for dollar democracy, can you tell us who will win the next first-past-the-ghost election in B.C.? Ontario? The next federal election? Does the content of the political message matter more than quantity of bullshit spread amongst fertile minds of the voters?

It's easy to be a candidate running for either of the two old line parties in this country when Bay Street are the ones buying governments. You blame the NDP, and I blame the democracy gap, which is actually become a canyon in our Northern Puerto Rico. US actor Martin Sheen warned an audience of British Columbians about signing free trade agreements with the US. He told British Columbians that his country does not desire to trade freely with Canada. Sheen said that politics in his country is a madhouse. Sheen told British Columbians that sooner than trade freely and fairly with Canada, America wants to dominate Canada. And that's exactly what's happened since Mulroney and Chretien.

They can tweak taxes a bit at the provincial level, and regulate somewhat as long as it isn't at cross purposes with CUSFTA, NAFTA , WTO rules, or the inglorious TILMA. But provincial governments don't have any real federal level powers like they do in Nordic social democracies. Just trying to put things in perspective here. It's not our country anymore, Kropotkin. We were sold down the Mississippi some time ago. We are renters in our own land and so will future generations be unless we throw some stooges out of Ottawa for a good ten or 20 years at a stretch.

kropotkin1951 wrote:
Fidel did it ever occur to you that the numbers you posted above point to the failure of the BC NDP to inspire the voters with their anti-tax bullshit.

I'm actually amazed that the BC NDP did as well as they did considering the campaign donation funding gap and still only lose by 3% of the registered vote in still Beautiful British Columbia but not for very much longer if Campbell and Liberals and their wealthy friends continue to have their way,

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Yes I know FIdel the NDP is always right and every campaign strategy they have ever devised was brilliant.  The fact they keep losing is obviously the fault of those lefties that don't like Moe, Mike and Bruce. Imagine on a site like babble Fidel has forbidden left wing activists from pointing out the inadequacies of the people who have stolen the legacy of the CCF.

I am sure the 50% of the population that refuses to vote for any of the current choices can be browbeaten into supporting the NDP or maybe tricked into thinking they are voting for a populist party and then when elected the NDP will become a social democratic party.  I believe!! I believe!!  I believe!!

Pages

Topic locked