Get beaten by nazis, lose your kids

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Cueball Cueball's picture

How can you say that the ARA "violently" confronted racists, when the ARA spokesperson Jason Devine condemned those acts and explained quite clearly that the people who got into those kind of confrontations were people who were not with the peaceful ARA protest and joined the march on their own.

You are now saying that Devine is lying about that too?

Sure! Why not insult you for parlaying such blatant disinformation that plays straight into the hands of those who want to vilify those activists who are confronting these vicious thugs? That is where you started, and you continue in this line in the most offensive manner. Enabling Stormfront mythology, right here on this board!


Dude do you have readin problems? I have agreed with you that the ARA that Jason devine represents renounces violence. Were you unable to understand those statements? I am saying I am glad it has changed from the ARA as it wasin the 90s when they epoused violent confrontation. They could even be different movements between then and now. This is the first Ive heard of them again in years.


Why is this hard to understand? Does it personally offend you that they may have a pro-violent past?

And yeah he could lying about it, or mistaken about the makeup, or unable they were able to control the anti-racist demonstrators. I dont know. All I have is the news reports, none of which followed up with names of those arrested and their connections.

Cueball Cueball's picture

No. You again repeated the idea that the ARA the very organization that Devine is a spokeperson for advocated violence against the Aryan Guead.

Bacchus wrote:

And I still say, violently confronting racists, as the ARA DID do in a demo in 2009 is wrong and lowers them to the level of their foes.

He did not. In fact he condemned it.




Your point? And doesnt opinions evolve? Or I am stuck with my original thoughts and the posting of people like RP cannot change things?


Does this bullying tactic usually work for you Cueball with people in babble? Geez these techniques are usually seen on the other side or on FD

Cueball Cueball's picture

My point is that you are again repeating White Power talking points about the ARA -- Calgary and Jason Devine.


Another direct confrontation strategy revealed was the utilization of the Internet to organize for direct confrontation with racist groups and individuals in the real world. Anti-racist activists document and monitor the on-line and real world events of white racist groups. Anti-racist homepages and e-mail lists are then used to inform other activists about the planned racist activity. Counter-demonstrations and rallies are then planned. "Net surfers" are then recruited to participate in the counter-demonstrations at upcoming racist rallies. The Anti-Racist Action group in particular seems to favor this tactic. They frequently monitor the white supremacist homepages and mailing lists in order to find out where the next white supremacist rally, march, or conference is to be held. This information is then posted on the ARA homepages in the U.S., Canada, and Europe. All who can participate in the anti-racist counter-demonstrations are encouraged to do so in order to form a counter rally. The results of the "real life" battle with groups such as the Klan are then posted on the Net:

A faction of the Ku Klux Klan from Michigan, led by David Newman, obtained a permit to have a rally January 6th at the State House in Columbus, Ohio, "to protest against the Martin Luther King holiday." The A.R.A.-Net and a coalition of other groups organized a counter-demonstration. As they have at two other previous Columbus rallies, the police had a massive presence, including a fenced-in pen to keep hundreds of protesters away from the dozen or so Klan members. The Klan was effectively shouted down for an hour and the few who actually came to hear them were chased out. One took a beating for which a man was later charged with felonious assault. Another protester was arrested for allegedly "assaulting a police horse" as the police cavalry attempted to disperse a large group that had gathered to confront the exiting KKK party. About 100 A.R.A.-Net members from around the country held a meeting after the rally to discuss tactics and organizational structure. There was a tense debate over issues such as whether or not to enter "the cage" set up by the police and what method should be used to establish representation on an A.R.A.-Net steering committee. The group discussion was cut short, but many members continued meeting at various social gatherings. All in all, it was a successful action against the Klan and a valuable exchange of ideas and positions in what will surely be an ongoing dialogue between A.R.A.-Net members. For further info, or to get on the A.R.A. News mailing list, write: ARA, PO BOX 82097, Columbus, Ohio 43202, or e-mail the address at the bottom of this page. ( rally.html, 1996)


THAT was the ARA I was familiar with.  Different group perhaps?

Cueball Cueball's picture

And what does that have to do with the fact that you just stated that the ARA -- Calgary authorized an attack against the Aryan Guard?

And come to think of it where in that document is there anything about the ARA advocating attacking white supremacists, as in beating them up or entering their homes and beating them with hammers?


Nice strawman cue, or attributing statements I did not make. Nowhere have i said that the ARA was "entering their homes and beating them with hammers"

And I did say (repeatedly which you ignore so you can continue this bullying) that the ARA Calgray appears to be different.


Happy now?

Cueball Cueball's picture

Different than what? Where in that document is there anything about the ARA advocating attacking white supremacists?


Again repeating a statement I never said about the ARA? I dont think Ive ever used the word hammers once, unless I was  quoting you.


Sorry to disappoint but do continue to try to make false statements about me and bully me. I do so like to see thuggish FD type behavior from someone who claims to be not one


Im sorry, did you want to cut and paste that again a few more times? Really I dont mind if you want to keep flogging a dead horse that Ive long since moved on from, mostly due to RP and others.

Cueball Cueball's picture


Cueball Cueball's picture

Bullshit. You said and continue to assert that the ARA advocates violence against white supremacists. Indeed earlier, you basically claimed they were moral equivalents.

Bacchus wrote:

Sorry its vigilantism, exactly the same sort as was practised on them.  They espouse violent confrontation, and so do the nazis who also put up posters denouncing people.


I find them exactly the same

That is where the "hammer" issue comes up. As RP pointed out there is a difference between some pushing and shoving at a rally and a home invasion, but I digress.

You still have to show me where the ARA advocates violence confrontation with white supremacist. You yourself advocated "confrontation", yet you assert that the ARA "in general" advocates violence. Where?


As an aside how do DPs happens? Ive done it myself and its annoying and embarassing.


I said the ARA I was familiar with in the 90s did and I showed you an example. And I agreed that it does not seem like it is the case anymore with the organization. What more do you think your bullying will accomplish?


Do carry on


Tsk tsk bullying again? Its true there doesnt seem to be the same 'theme' from the ARAs of old.



Did I call Jason devine a VIOLENT vigilante? I dont recall that.

Cueball Cueball's picture

Familiar with in what sense?

Sounds like a bunch of rumours really. Given how factual your contributions to this thread have been.

At the start,  you accused Devine of advocating violence (proved wrong), suggested they should be charged with "harassment and stalking", because he outed people who apparently think "home invasions" and "beating" people when insulted is ok, called his wife delusional based on a short summary of her political views in a right wing tabloid. Said that the ARA and the Nazi's were "exactly the same". Later accused ARA -- Calgary of promoting violence, when their spokesperson (the same Jason Devine who you earlier called a violent vigilante) clearly condemned violence in the name of his organization.

And after this hash of associative defamatory comments, one after the other, based on some memories you have of the organization you say you were familiar with "in the 90's", we are supposed to take your summary of their views at face value?

When you can find absolutely no ARA spokespeople advocating violence whatesoever.


Hmm never said they were violent commies and I didnt say she was crazy just delusional to promise things she had no hope of delivering


But do go on if you feel you need to continue putting words in my mouth. I have to go comfort a crying baby at the moment but if I can I'll be back to see what lie about me you wish to post next or maybe just more bullying and a insult or two.


Maybe I'll even get called a Internet Gollum like you did Snert. Gosh Im sure he misses being in this thread

Cueball Cueball's picture

It doesn't "seem to be the same 'theme' from the ARAs of old"? Based on what? Your rendition of the facts (actually supposition, guilt by association, rumour) on the Devine's and ARA -- Calgary so far?


Now Im an anti-feminist?  Wow and snarky right winger?


Gosh Im impressed


Nice that you admit there were pro violent ARA members. Gosh it took how many posts to agree with me that they existed after all your denying they did?


And if Good ol dave miller did the same thing without  having had a plan to gain the powers, then yeah he was delusional too. Or, as I pointed above after someone else commented, cynically using those 'promises' to get the gullible to vote for him, which I agreed could have been her motive too when it was pointed out.


Well I guess thats better than smug elitist prick or internet gollum.

Cueball Cueball's picture

No. I simply pointed out that there were some ARA people who took matters into their own hands. The organization never promoted violence as you have wrongly alleged over and over and over again. You really don't seem to understand the idea that people are not guilty by association.

Cueball Cueball's picture

It's very hard not to come to the conclusion that your "impressions" about the "ARAs of old" are probably as tainted as supposition, guilt by association, rumour as your contributions here about Devine and the Calgary ARA. I assert that I knew ARA members who certainly believed violent confrontations with Skinheads were a good thing. That said, I don't ever recall any ARA organization calling for violence against white supremacists.

And even those who advocated "violence", such as throwing eggs at Ernst Zundel's house were certainly not "exactly the same" as their Heritage Front counter-parts as you allege. Those Skinhead fuckers beat a young Tamil man into a coma simply for being black -- please get some perspective.

The rest your snarky falling into line with the editorializing of the SUN media chain and ridiculing Devine's wife as "dellusional" because she campaigned on a platform that contained elements of things that were not strictly the purview of city politics is just absurd. Many non-left (male) politicians routinely promise things they can not deliver, and indeed, people such a Mayor David Miller campaigned on issues that could only be negotiated with higher authorities, and were not in the domain of city politics at all -- was he delusional?

But of course, the white-male "centerist" like solid old Dave Miller is not tarred as being dellusional by you. That kind of snarky right wing ridicule is reserved when defaming "activist" leftist women who enter politics.


Cueball Cueball's picture

And even those who advocated "violence", such as throwing eggs at Ernst Zundel's house were certainly not "exactly the same" as their Heritage Front counter-parts as you allege. Those Skinhead fuckers beat a young Tamil man into a coma simply for being black -- please get some perspective.

Notice for example, that the police felt no need to charge any ARA members after the 1993 fight at Parliament hill. You would think that the police would certainly have no problem picking up a few violent anarchists. It was the Skinheads who were charged with agravated assault, not anyone for the ARA.

When there was "violence" from the ARA it was limited to some egg throwing, paint bombs, and a few smashed windows. ARA and Nazi Skinheads are not "exactly the same", as you have said, repeatedly.


Hmm actually I said it once but whatever Cue


I do find it offensive but have not seen my opinion of previous incarnations of the ARA as wrong.


Unless you can post info about them from the 90s proving me wrong

So I may have seen my opinion of the ARA Calgary and the Devines as wrong and that I admit, that is all. Bullying to the contrary

Cueball Cueball's picture

Once. You then followed it with various re-iterations on the same theme. Repeatedly, saying that there has been a "change" from the ARA of "old", for example, and suggesting that Devine's position and the position of the Calgary ARA are somehow different from the ARA you described as being "exactly the same", as the Nazi thugs they confront. In fact, there is not a whole hell of a lot of difference between the ARA of the 90's, and the Calgary ARA.

Wheb your original argument that Devine was some kind vigilante (a common fascist talking point about the ARA) and that he was the equal opposite of the people they were opposed to, was proved to be wrong, you then devolved to smearing the whole organization, then when it was shown that your view of ARA -- Calgary as a violent vigilante organization (a re-iteration of the fascist talking point about the ARA) was also proved wrong, you then went on to smear previous incarnations of ARA as a violent vigilante organization.

You have been proved wrong on this last point again.

What is consistent however throughout these various efforts to smear anti-racism activists, is that at each turn of the wheel of your argument you have resorted to various versions of the "they are exactly the same" meme, relying for the most part on the Heritage Front/Aryan Guard talking point that the ARA advocates violence, illegal activity and vigilantism.

That argument is the one that the rascists use to justify their violent attacks upon people like the Devine's as "self-defense". You find it insulting that I equate your re-iteration of anti-ARA smears as enabling the racists who engage in thing like violent home invasions, beating helpless black men and paralyze them. agravated assault upon young women at public demonstrattions, and attack visiting Japanese women for no other reason than being alive in the name of "self defense"?

I hope you do. That is a good thing.

Cueball Cueball's picture

No pal. The proof lies with the accuser, you are the accuser. About the only things that anyone could construe as "violence" coming from the ARA Toronto of the 1990's was throwing eggs and paint bombs at Zundel's house. What can I say? I don't see many people rising up in arms because Chretien got pied in the face. Unless you have any evidence to contrary, the only conclusion I can come to is that your smears are much the same as your previous smears against Devine and the ARA -- Calgary -- suppositions based in rumour, not fact.

Here is the hard copy of various newsletters from ARA Toronto from the 1990's. Perhaps you can find something in there where the ARA is calling for violent vigilante attacks.

Fortunately, the Nizkor project exists to staunch the flow of right wing disinformation used to justify vicious attacks on anti-racism activists, and people of colour,  being bandied about on Babble by "well meaning" liberals.

And what flowed from all this disinformation? More suppositions based in rumour and a total smear job characther assassination of the victims of a vicious home assault.



Then again maybe its the AFA I mean


But both seem to use violent terms for confrontation and admit smashing windows and attacking racist thugs


Not quite the proof you were looking for perhaps?  Not to mention whenever the site you posted shows documents about the ARA it is careful to mention

"Nizkor does not condone violence as a political action tool." which does lead me to believe the ARA epoused violence then.

Cueball Cueball's picture

In other words nothing. As I said. Indeed, if you like you could point out the fact that anti-fascist punks, and people like Steve Johnson from the Bunch of Fucking Goofs, used to beat up Nazi's who came to punk rock shows to cause trouble and get into fights, and say that they were engaged in viglilante violence, but other than some people throwing eggs and paint bombs at Zundel's house and the resulting "mischief" charges that were laid you have nothing on the ARA that amounts to them being "exactly the same" as the Nazi punks and Skinheads, or endorsing vigilante violence.

A "mischief" charge is not "agravated assault" of the kind that Burdi was convicted of, not to mention violent home invasions, near lethal attacks on Tamil dishwasher dudes going home from work, or kicking random Japanese tourists. Your attempts at backing up your original slander of the anti-racist left are really reaching new lows.

The fact is that these dudes used to ride around in a big black van, get really drunk, and go to night clubs and start fights, and rat-pack people just for the hell of it. Its a culture of violence. That is who they are. Some people took premtive action when these yobs showed up at show in order to stir shit up. Good for them!

Personally I am a victim of random attacks by Skinheads, and I am sorry, I have no compunction in defending myself. The fact that you want to spread the rumour that defending myself makes me "exactly the same"as them, and trashing people like the Devines, and organizations like the ARA makes me sick to my stomach.


It is not just losing the kids and not being there to comfort them and the kids going throuh unnecessary hell and uncertainty - but the label that goes with having one's kids removed.  To remove someone's kids, one is labeling them as something that is only marginally better than a Graham James or a Robert Pickton or a Russell Williams - and that wasn't fair.  These were good people who did not deserve to have their lives and deaths ruined and their kids taken when what the kids needed most was their parents to help them through this.


bagkitty bagkitty's picture

THIS should not be mistaken for spam. It should be taken as a commentary on the similarities between sleep deprivation and intoxication. (I have been checking the time codes).

It is time to put this thread out of its misery. Take it out behind a barn, shoot it... stuff it in a bag, add rocks, toss it in a creek.


Holy Poop!  185 posts!  I'm taking bagkitty's advice.


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