Are Inuit men sexual predators?
Wed, 2003-02-19 12:21
#1
Are Inuit men sexual predators?
Wed, 2003-02-19 12:21
#2
Brace yourselves, this is truly heart-wrenching.
quote:
[b]Inuit sexual predators must stop their abuse.[/b]It is well-known that Inuit men are big-time sexual predators.
For many hundreds of years, you have preyed upon your little girls and women. In many cases, you have raped your own daughters at a very young age. You have even raped babies and elderly women.
I am one of these Inuit women that have been abused over and over and over. It all started when I was a little kid, not old enough to understand what was going on.
I have been raped by my stepfather, my biological grandfather, one of my biological brothers, two of my step-brothers and my uncle on my mother’s side for many years.
I tried telling people about the pain, but no one would listen to what I was telling them about what was happening to me.
Once, when one of my aunts believed me, she told me to say nothing, because the person who raped me was highly respected in the community.
Today, I am very damaged by all the abuse that Inuit men close to me have caused me. I am able now to speak to other Inuit women who have been into the same kind of abuse. It appears to me that to be invaded by these predators was silently accepted.
I am finding out that many, many Inuit women were in this same situation, even in my mother’s and father’s time, and I know that it has been happening a lot longer. Alcohol and drugs have intensified these abuses in more recent times. I know that these abuses are still happening in our communities today.
I recently found out that her own uncle, my own adopted brother, raped my own daughter.
I want this abuse to stop. You have caused us women too much pain.
I encourage other women to bring their story out into the open for all to see the truth of our lives.
Anonymous
Kuujjuaq
[url=http://www.nunatsiaq.com/opinionEditorial/letters.html]Letters to the Editor, Nunatsiaq News.[/url]
I know decent Inuit men who would be ashamed of men who do this kind of thing. But maybe these decent men (all men) need to speak out against this and show support to their women.
When I think about it, most of my female friends have experienced sexual abuse of one sort or another. This includes myself- though I have never been raped it has come close and I was just a child and again throughout my teenage years. Just recently a friend of mine's niece, 9-year-old was raped and hemorrhaged.
It's also important to note that while incest seems to be more severe in the North, it happens more often in any society than people once supposed. (Kendell-TAckett & others, 1993).
[b]That's why we all need to speak up against it.[/b]
[ 19 February 2003: Message edited by: Anuri ]
Wed, 2003-02-19 14:36
#3
My next comment will probably tick off many...
Men are pigs.
It's true.
We are.
Actually [i]we[/i] are. I'm not. I'm a nice guy, who takes no shite off no one. Except those that brutalize the fairer sex. Grrr.
Wed, 2003-02-19 14:40
#4
As per your original post. It is very sad. But, we rise above it!!!
Wed, 2003-02-19 14:47
#5
What exactly do you mean, man with no name?
How?
Wed, 2003-02-19 14:55
#6
Actually, MWNN, I have a different take on this. Seems to me that it shows that men are more fragile than women. I don't have figures to back this up on hand, but it seems to me that in societies where economic devastation, hopelessness and substance abuse are rampant, men commit more assault, sexual abuse and suicide than the women. Not only that, but the leaders that emerge from the ashes of such communities seem to be predominantly women. Comments?
Wed, 2003-02-19 14:59
#7
quote:
Actually we are. I'm not. I'm a nice guy, who takes no shite off no one. Except those that brutalize the fairer sex. Grrr.
Er.. isn't that what [i]we[/i] all say?
An attempt to correlate any negative or positive characteristic of humans with their skin colour would immediately be labelled as bigotry. Same with trying to correlate them with genitalia. [img]frown.gif" border="0[/img]
Wed, 2003-02-19 15:30
#8
This story boggles the mind.
I cannot fathom the predatory nature of some men, especially contemptible are those who target younger women and children.
Reading this one gets an idea that a tall tree and plenty of rope would be a good frigging start.
Wed, 2003-02-19 15:45
#9
quote:
An attempt to correlate any negative or positive characteristic of humans with their skin colour would immediately be labelled as bigotry. Same with trying to correlate them with genitalia.
You are quite right on the first count, but out to lunch on the second. Waaaay out.
Wed, 2003-02-19 15:47
#10
Anuri, you can make the title you did because you are, I presume, Inuit. It would be unacceptable coming from a "Non-Native".
I have worked in Northern aboriginal communities (both Inuit and Amerindian) and have observed the despair, violence and systematic substance abuse in those settlements. I don't really think being Inuit is the key - however being in an uprooted, half-destroyed aboriginal community of any origin certainly plays a part, as does the desire to keep outsiders who have always oppressed the community out of its affairs.
If you look at the Maori film "Once were warriors" you can observe much of the same behaviour at the other end of the planet.
Wed, 2003-02-19 15:51
#11
quote:
You are quite right on the first count, but out to lunch on the second. Waaaay out.
Could you clarify this please. I'm not sure what you're trying to say with this statement.
Wed, 2003-02-19 16:02
#12
I have yet to hear of an epidemic of anybody being raped by women, is all.
Wed, 2003-02-19 16:20
#13
quote:
I have yet to hear of an epidemic of anybody being raped by women, is all.
Rape is an act, not a characteristic. Men rape women more than women rape men. Women, on the other hand, kill their children more than men do. Both are despicable acts.
Does this make men "despicable"? Does it make women "despicable"? Are men, or women [b]more[/b] despicable??
Evaluate people. Not their skin, and not their genitals. [img]rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img]
Wed, 2003-02-19 16:26
#14
My point is that while it's erroneous to suggest that any "race" of men is more or less likely to commit rape, on the whole, it is not at all erroneous to suggest that men, on the whole, are more likely to commit rape than women, on the whole, thereby making judgements based on genitalia somewhat justified--if you're talking about statistics.
Wed, 2003-02-19 16:30
#15
quote:
thereby making judgements based on genitalia somewhat justified--if you're talking about statistics.
So then why is it 'erroneous' to suggest that any particular race is more prone toward rape? If the statistics suggest that one race [b]is[/b] more prone to commit rape than others, what will you do with that information?
And for the record, I was responding to the comment that "men are pigs", not "men rape more" (which is beyond dispute).
Wed, 2003-02-19 16:36
#16
If more men rape than women, then more men than women are pigs, worthy of less respect than we afford subway rats.
It's just the odds, but you're right, of course, that we shouldn't judge a book by its cover and all that. That's not really what I was talking about...
Wed, 2003-02-19 16:37
#17
writer
Mr. Magoo, perhaps you could deal with that issue via private massage. There's been quite a history of derailing threads about rape found in the feminism forum. It would be great if this didn't happen again.
Man With No Name made the statement you object to for his own reasons. Please keep the rest of us out of it.
[ 19 February 2003: Message edited by: writer ]
Wed, 2003-02-19 16:42
#18
good advice, writer. Sorry for drawing it out, all.
Wed, 2003-02-19 16:47
#19
This is a very sad topic. I'm dealing with something related in an off-work project. What we must learn to deal with is that this is a social problem that happens to be afflicting a particular culture, not a racial issue. Taking a step back, it's really a symptom of a much larger problem. And we're sadly lightyears from reaching a solution. The government doesn't want to do anything except continue to blindly throw money at it to make it go away. How can we deal with these problems and help them to stop?
Wed, 2003-02-19 16:52
#20
writer
I think speaking out is a huge step. And for doing so, I'd like to thank both the woman who wrote the letter and Anuri for raising the issue here.
People who are abused by such predators are often made to feel isolated, crazy and somehow deserving of the treatment they receive. I am in awe of the ability of this letter writer to see her worth, even after all she's gone through, and to stand up and say, Enough, in such a public way.
This is how darkness comes into the light, how the unspeakable becomes articulated, how change happens.
[ 19 February 2003: Message edited by: writer ]
Wed, 2003-02-19 16:58
#21
I would think that discussing the merits (or lack of) in ascribing behaviours or characteristics of individuals to their race or their sex is [i]absolutely on topic[/i] in a thread entitled 'Are [b]Inuit men[/b] sexual predators?'
But if you'd rather I don't post, I won't.
[ 19 February 2003: Message edited by: Mr. Magoo ]
Wed, 2003-02-19 17:18
#22
Except, Mr. Magoo, that I think this thread is intended more to be about the women suffering this systemic abuse and oppression than about the wording of the title.
Wed, 2003-02-19 17:30
#23
writer
I know a number of women (and men) who've been sexually abused by relations and family friends. Most were attacked when they were children / young adults. This certainly isn't a problem known only to the Inuit.
Wed, 2003-02-19 17:32
#24
From the sounds of this letter, though, it is a bit of an epidemic among the Inuit.
Wed, 2003-02-19 17:36
#25
writer
Agreed, but as lagatta has pointed out, there are reasons outside of race why this could be.
Wed, 2003-02-19 17:42
#26
Certainly. The idea that something like this is racial is laughable. But, if one identifies it as cultrual, how can it be remedied? And furthermore, how do we come to terms with the fact that there is a social situation in existence which is leading people to act like this? We can't very well say these men are just bad, pure and simple. But at the same time, can we accept incest and rape (or any sexual crimes for that matter) as symptoms of a larger problem? Isn't that a bit insulting to the victims?
Wed, 2003-02-19 17:52
#27
writer
Incest, rape, murder, alcoholism, suicide ... it's not a question of excusing any of this behaviour. Where it happens at chronic levels, together they reflect a social crisis. One way to acknowledge that crisis is by listening to the stories of the people who are suffering.
These are stories we need to hear, and need to act on. Personally, I see acts of sexual violence as a form of hate crime. The question is, what triggers this kind of hate?
When I've been assaulted, I didn't think afterwards, "This is a happy, contented person."
[ 19 February 2003: Message edited by: writer ]
Wed, 2003-02-19 18:19
#28
quote:
Where it happens at chronic levels, together they reflect a social crisis. One way to acknowledge that crisis is by listening to the stories of the people who are suffering.
I don't think that listening can be overstressed. Listening also doesn't always require that we provide direct advice and opinions to those who are suffering these abuses.
It is the social crisis that has to be addressed. Non-First Nations people must pressure governments at all levels to address the economic conditions and land claims of First Nations, Inuit and other impoverished communities is a key indicator of our own empaty, humanity and solidarity.
First Nations peoples need to know that we are taking action. This would seem to be the greatest source of hope that we can provide on a collective level. This isn't necessarily everything we need to do, but it's a key piece.
Wed, 2003-02-19 18:44
#29
Should I close this and we can start the talk again? Or can it get back on track?
Wed, 2003-02-19 19:09
#30
I apologize for the title if people found it offensive. I did think about what I should call this thread- Lagatta, yes I am Inuk but that's not why I gave it this title. I did because this is what the letter is suggesting.
I think it was important for the writer to say this to cast shame in communities that allow this to happen. That's why she called it what she did. It wasn't race related on her part but as people suggested there are other factors to consider.
quote:
And we're sadly lightyears from reaching a solution. The government doesn't want to do anything except continue to blindly throw money at it to make it go away. How can we deal with these problems and help them to stop?
The federal government had a 'crime prevention' project but the way they delivered the money to the North wasn't enough to keep the positive initiatives that address social issues going. While it made sense to create community partnerships, the federal and territorial government only provided start-up funding and the Northern and Co-op Stores or who-ever else could finance the projects were left to their devices. Which basically is nothing considering the lack of business' in communities.
I appreciate all the posts- it's important to talk about this and try to come up with solutions. It's the only way.
Thu, 2003-02-20 10:30
#31
Five hundred and eleven years after Columbus first invaded North America the demonisation of our First Nations peoples continues unabated.
What's past is prologue...
Thu, 2003-02-20 10:30
#32
Obviously, no problem will ever be solved by pretending it doesn't exist; by being too nice (sensitive, non-judgmental, politically correct) to talk openly about it. Nor by burying it in generalization about all men or all races. The author of the letter is talking about something horrible that goes on in a specific community - something that is being done by and to real people, with names.
One more generalization, just to contradict myself. Men [i]are[/i] more emotinally fragile than women. In a patriarchal culture, when men lose their power, they also lose honour, hope, discipline, accountability - everything.
So what can be done?
It's impossible to put the First Nations back the way they were before colonization. (And, of course, they were not perfect, even then.)
Is it possible to build up Native communities to a sustainable level of economic self-sufficiency and self-esteem? Is it possible to retain tradition and also keep Native communities in touch with the modern world? Money would help, but it needs to be applied to a long-term goal.
What about the short-term?
Can we rescue the children who are suffering right now? Is it possible to empower the women, without further eroding the men's pride? Is it possible to give both boys and girls an equal chance at successful adulthood?
I think so - but it will be very difficult.
Thu, 2003-02-20 11:38
#33
Mr. Magoo,
You made mention of correlating the genitals/race mentioning is bigotry is a bad thing.
I am a man, so I am allowed to say men are pigs. Not all, of course (there is always an exception to the rule) but most.
Sisyphus,
The point of men in devastated communities committing more aggression is moot. The reason why men do this is simple - men are physically stronger and more aggressive then women (before anyone gets their bloomers in a twist, please see my 'exception to the rule' comment above).
As far leaders being women, emerging from the ashes, that makes sense. The men are usually incapacitated (i.e drunk, jail, dead, rehab whatever).
The Wizard Of Socialism
I would hardly call this article a demonization of the aboriginal. It was written (I 'm assuming, of course) by a native and published in newspaper of a native community.
Thu, 2003-02-20 12:21
#34
quote:
I am a man, so I am allowed to say men are pigs
You can say whatever you want. That doesn't make it right, or true. I think you need to associate with more men. There's plenty of nice ones. I would say even more than there are bad ones. The piggies just tend to stand out, make themselves appear to be more prominent.
quote:
The point of men in devastated communities committing more aggression is moot
It is entirely not moot. At all. If there is a higher rate of violent sex crimes in this community, then it is an indicator that there is a bigger problem at work. To ignore it is to completely ignore the pain these people are suffering. I'm sorry to dispel your illusions, MWNN, but men for the most part are not just overly-aggressive. It is NOT a genetic trait that is dominant in our gender, whether or not we may have recessed genes that make us aggressive. And I am aware of your "exception" clause. When things like this happen en masse, we need to look for cause and try and repair it. Claiming the "men being men" arguement is totally counter-productive.
I'm very sorry that your view of men is so skewed. I shudder to think of the type of men you must be surrounded by to make it so. I can't think of a single male I know who behaves in this manner. I know they're out there, but I think it's very sad when they are portrayed as the majority, rather than the minority.
Thu, 2003-02-20 12:40
#35
quote:
I'm very sorry that your view of men is so skewed. I shudder to think of the type of men you must be surrounded by to make it so.
LOL don't feel bad, you didn't do anything. FWIW, I come from a family with many boys. Our parents raised us right. Which let's me identify the losers and deadbeats in society. Most of them are men.
There are plenty of useless women out there also.
quote:
I can't think of a single male I know who behaves in this manner.
You need to get out more. [img]tongue.gif" border="0[/img]
Thu, 2003-02-20 12:46
#36
quote:
I can't think of a single male I know who behaves in this manner. I know they're out there, but I think it's very sad when they are portrayed as the majority, rather than the minority.
It's a bit problematic to suggest that just because you, personally, don't know of men who "act this way", that they're rare. What is that study--please someone, help me out with it--that found something horrible like more than 50% of men would rape if they knew they'd never be caught?
The prevalence of rape, in society in general as well as in smaller segments of it, is not going to diminish as long as people approach the problem as something that 'other people do' or 'other people suffer'.
We live in a cultural environment that devalues women's bodies and women's right to choose what happens to them. Everywhere there are images of women as nothing but sexual objects, women's stories and experiences are ignored, belittled and discredited by the media, the judicial system, and by the very law-enforcers who are meant to protect us and help us find justice. It is a systemic, endemic problem throughout society. And clearly, in communities where people are generally powerless, poverty-stricken, and desperate, the problem is worse--as in the example provided by the letter that opens this thread.
But to say "not me, not my friends" is simply an attempt to evade the responsibility that is all of ours, collectively.
[ 20 February 2003: Message edited by: Lima Bean ]
Thu, 2003-02-20 12:56
#37
quote:
I am a man, so I am allowed to say men are pigs
quote:
But any kind of bigotry is immoral and
unacceptable.- Judy Rebick
What I don't understand, MWNN, is why you want to characterize and generalize. Certainly [b]some[/b] men are "pigs" (which we haven't really defined or made meaningful), but so are some women. More importantly, many others [b]aren't[/b].
Other than being provocative, what's your point?
Thu, 2003-02-20 12:58
#38
I'm sorry. That's not at all what I intended with that statement. In retrospect, perhaps I should have rephrased/unphrased it. My concern was more with people making such blanket statements as "all men are pigs (with some exceptions)" which serve to do nothing but negate the cause of the problems.
As far as that study is concerned, I have heard it before too. I have serious problems with it because a) how can you expect someone to be able to answer something like that with any appreciation for the situation being presented and b) statistical reports are just not accurate.
This is all off topic though. I just wanted to say that I'm not trying to de-value the real problem of rape and exploitation here. I was only trying to bring to light that the problem is not "men are pigs" but a much bigger, social problem.
[ 20 February 2003: Message edited by: dale cooper ]
Thu, 2003-02-20 14:18
#39
quote:
But to say "not me, not my friends" is simply an attempt to evade the responsibility that is all of ours, collectively.
So if we were to take responsibility and tackle the problem head-on, we'd say "It IS me, it IS my friends" -- when it's not? [img]confused.gif" border="0[/img]
Even MWNN, the champion of the "men are pigs" theory, took this approach. He claimed membership in a group, in order to give his slur some credibility ("I am a man, so I am allowed to say men are pigs."), then he excused himself from that group ("I'm not. I'm a nice guy"), then, lest he suffer an awkward Thanksgiving, he excused his family as well ("Our parents raised us right.") and left the rest of us to swing in the sheets.
Finally, LB sez:
quote:
It's a bit problematic to suggest that just because you, personally, don't know of men who "act this way", that they're rare.
But you don't find it problematic that just because someone else [b]does[/b] know of men who act this way, that we're supposed to assume that it's an epidemic? With all due respect to the author of the original letter, it's one person's anecdote. And within one response, it's been turned into an unqualified "men are pigs".
Would this... no [b]could this[/b] have happened if one of us claimed that "blacks are lazy"?? [img]rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img]
[ 20 February 2003: Message edited by: Mr. Magoo ]
Thu, 2003-02-20 14:35
#40
The Inuit men must be stopped. They are a danger to the health of our society. Let us petition parliament to stop the Inuit men.
And what if they come down to Toronto? I hear they are good with disguises. We must stop the Inuit men from infiltrating our cities.
Thu, 2003-02-20 14:36
#41
Some people on this board take themselves wayyyyyy too seriously!
Thu, 2003-02-20 15:13
#42
Darkhorse, I hope you're being sarcastic.
To reiterate:
quote:
It's also important to note that while incest seems to be more severe in the North, it happens more often in any society than people once supposed. (Kendell-TAckett & others, 1993).That's why we all need to speak up against it.
While I'm happy to see men talking about this issue, I'm beginning to regret the title I gave it. It (the title) seems to be taking away the importance of the issue of incest and rape but at the same time, maybe it's a blessing in disguise. Maybe it will cast shame on the Inuit men that do this and motivate the decent ones to speak out against it?
Maybe this thread should be closed and start a new one- I don't know. It's up to you Audra.
Thu, 2003-02-20 15:20
#43
Is there anything besides the above-mentioned "crime prevention program" being done to deal with this situation? And is there any actual information dealing with the scope of this situation in the north?
Thu, 2003-02-20 15:28
#44
quote:
Darkhorse, I hope you're being sarcastic.
Hey, give me some credit. Could anyone read that as [i]not[/i] sarcastic?
Thu, 2003-02-20 18:51
#45
Sorry darkhorse. I've always liked your posts and I initially did read it with sarcasm...then something clicked and it didn't sound amusing anymore.
Dale, as for other programs other than crime prevention, I have no idea. I know there are some 'safe' places that women can go to in some communities but that's all I know at this point.
I have in the past tried to find out what the models the health and social services use to help people on welfare get motivated to do things and and what they are reinforced with. I have tried to encourage certain community sectors to net-work but I am often met with, "We're looking after it" or "That's previlaged information" and it tends to get quite discouraging.
It's not that the people don't want change because I know a lot of women who are decent and work hard but when there is institutional prejudice the process for change is very slow.
Thu, 2003-02-20 19:26
#46
The problem with rape in this country is the justice system. Six months in jail for raping your own 12 year grand daughter. That is what one man got in Nunavut. One year in jail for another for 18 counts of rape. And the story goes on and on. I beleive in the USA a rapist usally gets life in prison. Our government don't like the word rape so they call it sexual assult, as if it makes a differance to a 8 year old girl. Make rape a automatic life in prison and I think you will see a change, or at least castrate him.
Thu, 2003-02-20 20:39
#47
Does anyone care about the original problem, or is it more important to sort out who called whom a pig?
Here is what i think the govenrment ought to do:
Send the army north. ("Sorry, Georgie, all our peacekeeping forces are busy peacekeeping.")
Take every child-molester, wife-beater and rapist over 14 out of every community, right now. Fly them 1000 km from anywhere, and put them down. With the clothes on their backs, a pair of snowshoes, a spear, a knife and a backpack of rations. No booze, no drugs, no snowmobiles or gasoline and no dogsleds. (If they're mean to their families, they'll be mean to their dogs.) Let them make their own way back home. Let them earn the right to be accepted again. The ones who make it will be clean and sober; stronger, healthier - and in possession of more self-respect than when they left.
Meanwhile, the army will build decent houses, clinics, libraries and schools in each settlement, and guard the women and kids against predators. Each settlement will establish a new council and decide what rules they want to live by, what kind of economy they want, what enterprises they want to try. The government will provide start-up money in the form of interest-free loans.
When every man who is capable of getting home and reformed enough to be accepted there is repatriated; when the community functions well; when everyone is safe and satisfied, withdraw the army and let the people get on with it.
Thu, 2003-02-20 20:41
#48
It is not because they are Inuit, surely. If there are high rates of sexual assault in those communities it has a lot to do with isolation, limited education, prejudices against women that have remained over time, brutal instincts made worse by drink and an absense of civil authority. Our government could do more, improve schooling, introduce social programs, but there is a cost for all that, so we've found it convenient not to pay much attention.
Thu, 2003-02-20 20:54
#49
Why is it that some people make excuses for men that rape children and women? [img]confused.gif" border="0[/img]
Thu, 2003-02-20 22:05
#50
quote:
Why is it that some people make excuses for men that rape children and women?
That is plain idiotic. When a particular type of crime appears frequently in a region, we look at the circumstances, culture, general welfare of that region. This is not 'making excuses', this is investigating causes and conditions that contribute to the frequency of the crime. Of course, the men who do this are at fault. But what brought them to commit such heartless acts? Is it your belief they are innately evil? Are Inuits born rapists in your books? Frankly, you astound me.
Thu, 2003-02-20 22:41
#51
quote:
If you look at the Maori film "Once were warriors" you can observe much of the same behaviour at the other end of the planet.
Lagatta, I cried when I watched this movie. In fact, I own it. Awesome movie!
Nonesuch, what a great idea! You know, when I talked with an elder before and asked him how they used to serve justice in the past- he told me that a group of men used to talk with the offender to try and correct the behaviour. Sometimes it worked. When it didn't the person would parished out-on-the land.
Bellows, I must say I agree with darkhorse. There are circumstances that bring out this kind of behaviour in people and we need to look at those circumstances and improve them.
I must say though in the meantime, the men who oppose this in the North, need to speak loudly and be supported by their community.