Vaginal Plastic Surgery

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Topic locked

Mon, 2004-11-22 18:34

Doug

quote:

Originally posted by Debra:
[b]Also men are not told their penis doesn't look right or that it should be different.
[/b]

Not so. There's great concern among younger men about whether it's big enough, if it has a weird shape, etc. So far, though, there aren't any good cosmetic procedures to address that but that doesn't stop people from trying. Then there's the concern among older men about making sure that it works when called upon - so there's the whole range of treatments from Viagra and its imitators to injectables (ouch!) all the way to penile implants (ouch! ouch!)

Mon, 2004-11-22 18:57

#53

Tommy_Paine

Along with the usual weekend barrage of flyers came a small glossy on cosmetic surgery, featuring botox injections and some other stuff.

It can become a fine line. We all want to look at least "normal", and I think there's a role for cosmetic surgery to play here. There's always going to be a grey area about what surgery is "cosmetic" as apposed to theraputic, but clearly we are way beyond that line.

One aspect of this that is never touched on are the medical ethics. For example, in the case of breast implants, since when is it in keeping with medical ethics to slice open a perfectly healthy breast and shove in a plastic bag full of chemicals? Why are doctors who do this still licenced. The same can be said for penis extentions, and this labia surgery.

It's classic unneccessary surgery, and it is geared to take advantage of people's insecurities. These surgeons are little different than door to door home repair guys who scare the elderly into doing uneccessary-- and expensive repairs.

Doubly, in Canada, there is another ethical breach in this kind of surgery. Let's not forget that a doctor's education is heavily subsidized by the public.

I didn't fucking pay that money so some quack can go preying on insecure girls, boys, men and women.

Mon, 2004-11-22 20:20

#54

Debra

Tommy as so often the voice of reason. [img]smile.gif" border="0[/img]

And to the other guys sure maybe there is some insecurity but where does it come from?

Usually other guys!

Women aren't half as concerned about penis size as men are.

Most women orgasm from clitoral stimulation and penis size doesn\t make much difference there.

And trying to be big red and last a long long time also has little to do with what women want.

Men ( not the good ones of which fortunately there are many ) on the other hand often expect women to "live up to" the porn standard as unrealistic as that may be.

Mon, 2004-11-22 20:35

#55

quote:

Originally posted by Debra:
[b]
And to the other guys sure maybe there is some insecurity but where does it come from?
Usually other guys!
Women aren't half as concerned about penis size as men are.
[/b]

Again, wrong and you're missing the point.

1) guys put pressure on themselves; due to porn, the media "size matters" jokes, what lovers have said to them, embarassing moments in adolescence....etc.

2) While women aren't half as concerned about a guys penis size, that doesnt stop a GUY from feeling insecure about himself, and resorting to drastic measures to rectify the situation.

Ultimately the point is that there are cultural misconceptions, and lots of insecure people out there who will seek to "perfect" anything, and people who are more then happy to "help them out" and make a buck while theyre at it.

(Again, any more ressources on Vagina particulars, please PM me.)

Mon, 2004-11-22 20:38

#56

josh

How did a thread which began with the vagina end up on the penis? [img]wink.gif" border="0[/img] [img]biggrin.gif" border="0[/img]

Mon, 2004-11-22 20:40

#57

Debra

quote:

Originally posted by josh:
[b]How did a thread which began with the vagina end up on the penis? [img]wink.gif" border="0[/img] [img]biggrin.gif" border="0[/img] [/b]

No shit eh?

edited to add:
I totally missed your joke on the first read, or is that just my own dirty mind kicking in? [img]biggrin.gif" border="0[/img]

and Guepe what vagina particulars are you looking for?

Google is a wonderful thing.

[ 22 November 2004: Message edited by: Debra ]

Mon, 2004-11-22 20:42

#58

quote:

Originally posted by josh:
[b]How did a thread which began with the vagina end up on the penis? [img]wink.gif" border="0[/img] [img]biggrin.gif" border="0[/img] [/b]

yeah i can't help but feel partly responsible for that....

Mon, 2004-11-22 20:47

#59

Budd Campbell

quote:

Originally posted by josh:
[b]How did a thread which began with the vagina end up on the penis? [/b]

Waaay too obvious.

Whether or not size matters is a matter of opinion, and can differ from one woman, or for that matter one man, to another. Do gay men argue about this, or do they all agree?

There was a cute bit of comedy on this one on Bravo the other nite, some new NY fire dept show called Rescue Me. There the "pressure" was from other men, but there was a least one female character who was greatly interested and closely involved.

Mon, 2004-11-22 20:58

#60

Tommy_Paine

Well, I for one have been trying to frame my conversation here in pro-feminist terms, and I could care less where my ten and a half inch penis stands in all this.

(side long glance)

But anyways, I've gone through this with all three of my daughters and I know the pressure about physical appearance is absolutely huge at one time or another.

It's a very difficult thing, getting them through this stuff.

I really don't need quacks dressed up as doctors telling them they need thicker lips, a neater vagina, bigger breasts or liposuction.

Mon, 2004-11-22 21:41

#61

Reality. Bites.

Penis enlargement is much more about the guys in the locker room than the woman in the bedroom. I don't believe it has much effect on erect size.

quote:

Do gay men argue about this, or do they all agree?

Of course. Millions of gay men, with different cultural standards, living all around the world and each having different experiences and a penis of his own, all agree. It was settled at the first international homo convention in 1937, and hasn't come up for discussion since. Gay boys have to sign a pledge of agreement before they're allowed to lose their Virginity.

Mon, 2004-11-22 22:05

#62

Debra

quote:

Originally posted by RealityBites:
[b]Penis enlargement is much more about the guys in the locker room than the woman in the bedroom. I don't believe it has much effect on erect size.
Of course. Millions of gay men, with different cultural standards, living all around the world and each having different experiences and a penis of his own, all agree. It was settled at the first international homo convention in 1937, and hasn't come up for discussion since. Gay boys have to sign a pledge of agreement before they're allowed to lose their Virginity.[/b]

[img]biggrin.gif" border="0[/img]

Mon, 2004-11-22 22:23

#63

James

quote:

Originally posted by josh:
[b]How did a thread which began with the vagina end up on the penis? [img]wink.gif" border="0[/img] [img]biggrin.gif" border="0[/img] [/b]

That is true, and I recognize that threads in the "feminism" forum are expected to be approached differently. That said though, how many women receive between 5 and 15 junk e-mails daily; all dealing with genital dimensions. They run the ganut from hanging weights, to vacuum pumps and strcyures, to surgery.
All makrs me wonder whether this isn't more a gereral "consumerism" issue.

Mon, 2004-11-22 22:54

#64

quote:

and Guepe what vagina particulars are you looking for?

I'm well versed in google and research tools.

I'm looking for medical literature, or other articles, that might be relevant but more obscure.

Tue, 2004-11-23 12:19

#65

Budd Campbell

quote:

Originally posted by RealityBites:
[b]Of course. Millions of gay men, with different cultural standards, living all around the world and each having different experiences and a penis of his own, all agree. It was settled at the first international homo convention in 1937, and hasn't come up for discussion since. Gay boys have to sign a pledge of agreement before they're allowed to lose their Virginity.[/b]

Alright. And what was the answer?

Tue, 2004-11-23 12:27

#66

Timebandit Timebandit's picture

Take it to the penis thread, guys,[url=http://www.rabble.ca/babble/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic&f=20&t=000925]over here.[/url]

Now let's get back to vaginas... This is the Feminist Forum, after all. [img]tongue.gif" border="0[/img]

Tue, 2004-11-23 14:26

#67

andrean

It would never occur to me that labia were something that required [i]plasty[/i]! I mean really, who looks that closely, at their own or someone else's? During intercourse, you can't really see it (unless there's some position that I don't know about) and if you are close enough to be seeing it, hopefully you've got your eyes closed while concentrating on more important and more pleasurable matters. It's not like you're wearing a miner's helmet to better illuminate the situation! Who cares what it looks like, as long as it works?

Tue, 2004-11-23 14:47

#68

Budd Campbell

quote:

Originally posted by andrean:
[b]I mean really, who looks that closely, at their own or someone else's? During intercourse, you can't really see it (unless there's some position that I don't know about) and if you are close enough to be seeing it, hopefully you've got your eyes closed while concentrating on more important and more pleasurable matters. It's not like you're wearing a miner's helmet to better illuminate the situation! Who cares what it looks like, as long as it works?[/b]

The guy may like the lights on and a clear view of what he's working his tongue into, since men tend to enjoy visual stimulation.

Tue, 2004-11-23 18:04

#69

shaolin

quote:

The guy may like the lights on and a clear view of what he's working his tongue into, since men tend to enjoy visual stimulation.

I hope this isn't an attempt to justify this outrageous surgery. Sure, some people (both male and female) may like a clear view but there's no reason for that view to be of some nipped and tucked version instead of a natural labia.

Tue, 2004-11-23 18:11

#70

al-Qa'bong

Run, Budd Campbell. Run long and run fast, and don't look back.

Tue, 2004-11-23 18:17

#71

remind

quote:

Originally posted by Budd Campbell:
[b]
The guy may like the lights on and a clear view of what he's working his tongue into, since men tend to enjoy visual stimulation.[/b]

That is not true, some men may enjoy visual stimulation, as you apparently do, or you would not have said it. Other men depending upon neural centre usage enjoy other sense pleasures more than "seeing".

Napolean for example enjoyed smelling, and entreated Josephine not to bath before he came home from military campaigns. Other men, prefer touch, may it be hard or soft. While still others enjoy sounds, or a combination of sense triggering pleasures. Indeed apparently some like nothing better than a good spank me scenario. [img]biggrin.gif" border="0[/img]

Apparently though some males, and in the case of women who think genital mutilation makes them prettier, have been brainwashed by Larry Flint's personal preference in vagina viewing.

What bother me is that it really underscores, some men wanting women's vaginas to look like that of a little girl.

Tue, 2004-11-23 19:03

#72

Debra

quote:

What bother me is that it really underscores, some men wanting women's vaginas to look like that of a little girl.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought that.

Tue, 2004-11-23 19:12

#73

Budd Campbell

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin:
[b]
I hope this isn't an attempt to justify this outrageous surgery. [/b]

Hardly. I can't imagine why anyone would think the results of such an operation would make a woman more attractive, the opposite in fact.

Breast enlargement holds a more apparent attraction but is hardly worth the risk, IMO. Why some women purchase these cosmetic alterations I don't know, although for the Pamela Andersons of this world there is an obvious financial risk/reward tradeoff being made.

Tue, 2004-11-23 19:50

#74

googlymoogly

quote:

What bother me is that it really underscores, some men wanting women's vaginas to look like that of a little girl.

Eaxctly! I always thought that was why the pubic hair is often airbrushed out in porn magazines.. [img]mad.gif" border="0[/img] [img]mad.gif" border="0[/img] [img]mad.gif" border="0[/img]

Tue, 2004-11-23 19:55

#75

skdadl

Did you know that the great -- and he was, very great -- Victorian art critic John Ruskin was so horrified to discover on his wedding night that his wife had pubic hair that he had the marriage annulled?

Imagine how his wife felt.

[ 23 November 2004: Message edited by: skdadl ]

Tue, 2004-11-23 20:12

#76

'lance

quote:

I always thought that was why the pubic hair is often airbrushed out in porn magazines..

It may be, but there could be a less creepy explanation. I suspect that when hardcore porn, with its penetration shots, became way more popular (i.e., widely accepted), the makers simply figured that shaved genitals would make it easier to see what was going on.

This would explain why male porn actors shave their pubic hair too. In gym change rooms, I'm amazed by how many guys have picked up on this fashion. I assume most of them aren't porn stars.

No doubt some male porn viewers want to see women who look like little girls. But if that were the mainstream taste, then porn directors would cast women who look like supermodels -- rail-thin, no breasts or hips to speak of, etc. -- because they look pre-pubescent. Instead, most female porn stars look almost stereotypically feminine, with hourglass figures. Often surgically-enhanced, of course.

Tue, 2004-11-23 20:35

#77

James

quote:

Originally posted by remind:
[b]
... What bother me is that it really underscores, some men wanting women's vaginas to look like that of a little girl.[/b]

Being very careful here not to step where Budd did, [img]eek.gif" border="0[/img] but why then do so many women (icluding some quite feminist) find it erotic to shave, wax, or otherwise defoliate ? I find plush carpeting or hardwood floors equally appealing, (each having certain advantages) but certainly have never thought of the latter as having any "pre-pubescent" connotations. Heaven forbid.

Tue, 2004-11-23 20:55

#78

Anchoress

quote:

Originally posted by James:
[b]
Being very careful here not to step where Budd did, [img]eek.gif" border="0[/img] but why then do so many women (icluding some quite feminist) find it erotic to shave, wax, or otherwise defoliate ? I find plush carpeting or hardwood floors equally appealing, (each having certain advantages) but certainly have never thought of the latter as having any "pre-pubescent" connotations. Heaven forbid.[/b]

Are these women you know, James? I don't know a single woman who likes to shave. Some do, but it's because their partners want them to. They HATE it. My ex wanted me to shave, and I *almost* did it just to please him although I really didn't want to.

And don't forget there's a difference between a bikini wax and a full depilatory.

Tue, 2004-11-23 20:57

#79

Reality. Bites.

quote:

Originally posted by skdadl:
[b]Victorian art critic John Ruskin was so horrified to discover on his wedding night that his wife had pubic hair that he had the marriage annulled?
Imagine how his wife felt.[/b]

Hairy, I imagine.

(I'm sorry, I couldn't resist a straight line like that.)

Back to the subject, lots and lots of men are visually stimulated. Gay and straight porn aimed at men is full of close-ups of things that are often best not seen 5-feet wide on a projection TV. And an awful lot of young men these days (straight and gay) trim or shave their pubic hair too. I really don't think it's a little girl/boy thing.

Tue, 2004-11-23 21:19

#80

James

quote:

Originally posted by Anchoress:
[b]
Are these women you know, James? [/b]

Ones I know or have known, though though alas, not [i]all[/i] in the "biblical" sense. [img]frown.gif" border="0[/img] And none, to my knowledge at [i]anyone's[/i] request, let alone my own. And no, I am talking full "Brasilian" wax or complete shaving (yes, I too wonder how the latters can abide the itching, but maybe it's like a guy and his chin after a time)
And you know, I have never asked the motivation; had always assumed it just a natural [i]kinkiness[/i], which is why the reaction here sort of puzzled me.
Edited to add: that said, I have always noticed that [i]slick[/i] women are [i]easier to please, in a certain fashion[/i], so had thought perhaps it was an implied [i]more of that, please[/i]!

And now, while my skin is still intact, I'm gettin' out of this thread [img]eek.gif" border="0[/img]

[ 23 November 2004: Message edited by: James ]

Tue, 2004-11-23 21:48

#81

Doug

In short, it's annoying to have stray hairs in your mouth. Which is why shaved is good from that perspective. Personally, I don't think it would be worth the irritation, but hey...

Tue, 2004-11-23 22:34

#82

remind

lance and Doug had some points, about other reasons, that I had thought of to make myself feel sightly better. I had also thought that perhaps video porn stars kept themselves shaved for cleanliness reasons, considering the variety of partners they have all at one time. But that condition does not apply to individual and one dimensional porn shots in a magazine. And hair can be trimmed to a comfortable length ya know.

The one time I saw a porn flick, after an Amway party that friends had suckered us into going to during a snow storm. They pulled it out after the Amway sheow, I too was struck by the close up shots. Not by the actors actions or the sex components, but by the pimples on the asses of the actors, I simply could not get beyond them and see anything else going on. yuk!

Wed, 2004-11-24 01:43

#83

Klingon

K'pla! This genital conversation is truly for the courageous and honourable!

Most of the women I know or have met, including the lesbian and bi-sexual ones, are feminine oriented and practice the body maintenance that most women usually do (legs, underarms, bikini wax, etc.).

The ones I have spoken with about these things usually say it's part of what gives them a sense of identity, self-esteem, good health and person power and confidence. Doing this for their partner's benefit, if they have one, is not the main consideration, although many say that is important as well.

But it seems shaving their intimate parts, at least totally, is more the exception than the rule. It seems to be a mood thing, from what I have been told. My spouse trims herself there, but has never totally remove all the hair. She says doing it the way she does is more comfortable, sanitary and make things more "sensitive."

Now, Klingon women are naturally hairless, except the obvious places, and the only time they feel "sensitive" is after a grueling Bat’leth fight with their spouse!!! Ah the scent of blood! Humans just can't relate to such pleasure!

Wed, 2004-11-24 02:20

#84

shaolin

Do most women actually bikini wax? Is this one of the practices MOST women partake in?

I find it very interesting that so many males seem to know women who was/shave/remove hair for them and their enjoyment while the females seem to have quite different experiences.

Wed, 2004-11-24 02:27

#85

Anchoress

I don't need to, but most of my female friends either bikini wax at certain times of the year or just shave the bikini line. Some just stay au naturel of course, and very few of my female friends do bikini-line grooming all year round, unless they are exceptionally hirsute.

Wed, 2004-11-24 02:32

#86

Hailey

I think that if a woman does this as long as they are making an informed decision it's really up to her. If she believes that there are benefits to her husband and/or herself in terms of their intimate relations and that balances out in comparison to other things that is not up to me to criticize.

And, yes, I would say that a significant number of women wax or shave. I would say half of women under 35.

Wed, 2004-11-24 10:17

#87

Tommy Shanks

Since this thread has moved slightly away from the discussions of completely unnecessary surgeries, we're now on ground I can comment on.

Regarding shaving vs. natural the main issue, to me, is what makes the wearer, so-to-speak, the most comfortable and confident in her skin, which in turn is damn sexy. So I can see the appeal of both. And of course choosing ones path for ones self is the real turn-on.

Long, long ago, I had a brief fling with, to my mind at the time, was the quintessential Queen St. artsy type. Well, in the course of fumbling around one night, I discovered she neglected to shave her underarms. Now it was March and it wasn’t like she had Buckwheat in a headlock. On her, because it seemed so much part of the package, it was quite exciting for an impressionable youngster.

Can’t say I seek that out now, but the not-giving-a-damn, I’m-comfortable-with-me part has stuck.

quote:

They pulled it out after the Amway sheow

You say the husband did this?

Wed, 2004-11-24 11:39

#88

I forwarded a link of the original article to some of my "non-political-feminisits-acitivists in denial" friends of mine. Most reactions were along the lines of "time to get a new husband, not a new vagina"...then I received this. And thought I would share it.

quote:

i find the topic very disturbing, but tis the world we live in. it is i guess similar to the men who get their penises enlarged, testicles implanted etc. so it is not only the women who are getting the rough side of the deal. i think that ultimately if this procedure makes the individual feel better, more confident about themselves then, while still psychotic, we should not completely disregard the validity of it.

(Please note, lets ignore her reference to the penis...rather) I wanted to point out the "not completely disregard the validity" part.

Wed, 2004-11-24 12:21

#89

Melsky

quote:

Originally posted by remind:
[b]
The one time I saw a porn flick, after an Amway party that friends had suckered us into going to during a snow storm. They pulled it out after the Amway sheow, I too was struck by the close up shots. Not by the actors actions or the sex components, but by the pimples on the asses of the actors, I simply could not get beyond them and see anything else going on. yuk![/b]

Did the porn feature Amway branded products like lube and paper towels? Maybe it was part of the promotion.

Wed, 2004-11-24 12:29

#90

thwap

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin:
[b]Do most women actually bikini wax? Is this one of the practices MOST women partake in?
I find it very interesting that so many males seem to know women who was/shave/remove hair for them and their enjoyment while the females seem to have quite different experiences.[/b]

I think this new generation of females ain't standin' for the hairy balls no more.
Hint for busy guys, dousing the fluff with lighter fluid and using a match provides for a quick, practically painless solution.

edited to add: As long as i'm making an ass of myself, i should mention that there are some pornstars who are famous for their long, stretchable labia (labias? labiai? laboolums?). I never gave the matter all that much thought, though i read about this type of surgery in Zmag's "Hotel Satire" a couple of years ago.

[ 24 November 2004: Message edited by: thwap ]

Wed, 2004-11-24 12:33

#91

Budd Campbell

Rather in line with the topic of this thread it's on the CBC radio news today that plastic surgeons in BC and Alberta are now amending their rules. Their members will not be allowed to offer their services for free, for use as prizes in bar and night club contests for example.

Regrettably, I cannot find the story on the CBC website.

Wed, 2004-11-24 12:43

#92

faith

Audra pointed out earlier that an anatomy lesson for some would be in order and I have always been bothered by the tendency for people ,even educators to describe everything below a woman's waist as the vagina.
The outer mound of a womans genitalia is called a vulva and refers to the whole area that you can actually see. The outer genitalia can then be referred to in its seperate parts such as the outer and inner lips of the labia and other parts , but the vagina is an internal orifice and unless you have a view point that usually a gynocologist is familiar with along with a speculum you are not going to 'see' the vagina.

Wed, 2004-11-24 13:10

#93

Reality. Bites.

Everyone who watches Seinfeld knows the three main parts are the Mulva, the Regina and the Dolores!

Wed, 2004-11-24 13:24

#94

faith

[img]biggrin.gif" border="0[/img]

Wed, 2004-11-24 17:31

#95

Budd Campbell

Here is the CBC story on plastic surgery that I couldn't find earlier.

B.C., Alberta crack down on cosmetic surgery prizes

WebPosted Nov 24 2004 10:49 AM PST VANCOUVER -

Cosmetic surgeons in Alberta and British Columbia are no longer allowed to offer their services as contest prizes.

The colleges of physicians and surgeons in both provinces recently introduced new guidelines to prohibit discount coupons, gift certificates or giveaways for medical surgeons.

The decision came partly in response to makeover contests that offer various surgical procedures as a prize.

For the rest go to:

[url=http://vancouver.cbc.ca/regionalnews/caches/bc_makeovers-extreme20041124... STORY[/url]

Wed, 2004-11-24 17:34

#96

Hinterland

quote:

Everyone who watches Seinfeld knows the three main parts are the Mulva, the Regina and the Dolores!

You forgot the [i]Mom's venomous.[/i]

[ 24 November 2004: Message edited by: Hinterland ]

Wed, 2004-11-24 17:47

#97

Mr. Magoo

quote:

I have always been bothered by the tendency for people ,even educators to describe everything below a woman's waist as the vagina.

Similarly, I tend to bristle a bit when someone refers to everything below their own waist as "down there" (often [i]whispered...[/i])

Fortunately, I don't think many of todays cohort of women have time for such nonsense, what with reclaiming the c-word and all. [img]wink.gif" border="0[/img]

Wed, 2004-11-24 18:37

#98

clersal

quote:

Similarly, I tend to bristle a bit when someone refers to everything below their own waist as "down there" (often whispered...)

How about: 'Where the sun don't shine.' [img]wink.gif" border="0[/img]

Wed, 2004-11-24 18:52

#99

Budd Campbell

quote:

Originally posted by Mr. Magoo:
[b]Fortunately, I don't think many of todays cohort of women have time for such nonsense, what with reclaiming the c-word and all. [img]wink.gif" border="0[/img] [/b]

Agreed. However, I note your decision that discretion is the better part of valour, in the you have used an abbreviation rather than the word itself.

Thu, 2004-11-25 00:28

#100

remind

No, the couple pulled out home videos or what we had first thought were, it did not take long to see otherwise.

Friendship ended that night for 2 reasons, the Amyway sneaky gig and the videos.

quote:

Originally posted by Tommy Shanks:
[b]
You say the husband did this?[/b]

Mon, 2005-06-13 15:20

#101

audra trower wi...

Now we're gonna do this [url=http://www.rabble.ca/babble/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic&f=24&t=000515]h....

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