RCMP chief admits he lied in testimony
Tue, 2006-12-05 10:55
#1
RCMP chief admits he lied in testimony
Tue, 2006-12-05 10:55
#2
[url=http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2006/12/05/commissioner-testimony.html?re... he insists he shouldn't resign[/url]
quote:
"I believe some aspects of my prior testimony could have been more precise and more clearly stated. A number of misconceptions have resulted," Zaccardelli said.In September, Zaccardelli told the committee that he got involved in the case before Arar was detained, but on Monday and again on Tuesday, he insisted that he learned a lot more about the involvement of the RCMP after a public inquiry report on the case was released by Justice Dennis O'Connor this fall.
And my favourite quote...
quote:
"Mr. Arar was neither innocent or guilty to us. He was a person of interest," he said.
He wasn't innocent? What kind of RCMP commissioner doesn't understand the concept of innocent until proven guilty?
Tue, 2006-12-05 11:40
#3
The general view among police is that those who get caught up in the system are guilty. If not of the crime they've been accused of, then they are guilty of [i]something[/i]. You've obviously done [i]something[/i] wrong in order to become a Person Of Interest. I would be very surprised if Zaccardelli didn't share this general view of detainees.
Tue, 2006-12-05 15:04
#4
Reading about this subject in the Toronto Star, I found this quotation.
quote:
Liberal MP Mark Holland asked Zaccardelli which testimony was "perjury"- the Sept. 28 one or this mornings. -
It can't be clearer and more direct a question than this.
I sent an -email to Mr. Holland, thanked him for taking his role on the Committee very seriously as should be and exhorting him to do his best to show this character of a commissioner the door.
I called on Mr. Holland to imagine what the RCMP can be capable of doing to a powerless citizen when their own Commissioner takes such liberties with the truth in front of legislators to try to save his skin. He should be fired.
Tue, 2006-12-05 15:09
#5
Boom Boom
quote:
Originally posted by sidra:
He should be fired.
Very few people would disagree on this, and I think the process is moving to have exactly that result. Harpoon is giving the guy "due process" because he knows what happened when Martin sacked high-level people without the benefit of due process: lawsuits up the wazoo.
Tue, 2006-12-05 18:48
#6
remind
quote:
Originally posted by Boom Boom:
[b]Harpoon is giving the guy "due process" because he knows what happened when Martin sacked high-level people without the benefit of due process: lawsuits up the wazoo.[/b]
Appatrently, Stockwell baby knew prior that he was misinforming the committee and that he would have to change his testimony, not sure of full story on this, as caught hind end on CBC 6pm news.
But it seems as though he, the commissioner is somehow saying Stockwell is complicit too in his lies.
Tue, 2006-12-05 20:17
#7
Boom Boom
And one of the committee members - maybe Joe or Mark - said they want to know what Doris Day has to say about this.
Tue, 2006-12-05 21:50
#8
remind
quote:
Originally posted by Boom Boom:
[b]And one of the committee members - maybe Joe or Mark - said they want to know what Doris Day has to say about this.[/b]
Is Stockwell going to be the CPC meat thrown to the Canadian public over this? After all, the CPC owe one to Zaccy baby for his leak about the Liberal MP and the Income trust investigation, that happened a crucial time for the CPC to pick votes in the last election.
Going to see if something is happening on this front in the news.
Ah, here is something from all places the National Post:
quote:
all of the above speaks to his competence. And all of the above are grounds for his dismissal.[b]If Zaccardelli isn’t gone by the weekend, the Harper government must stand accused of cashing in his marker for revealing a Liberal cabinet minister was under investigation on an income trust leak at the most volatile moment of the last election campaign.[/b]
After all, a prime minister who takes just 24 hours to declare Quebec, oops, the Quebecois a nation within Canada ,should be able to act inside of a week to restore confidence in police authority.
Perhaps Zaccardelli himself delivered the most appropriate reason for why he should be fired. "I can’t have any diminution of the trust Canadians have in their national police force," he insisted.
[url=http://tinyurl.com/yn6clp]http://tinyurl.com/yn6clp[/url]
So, if the Conservatives did not "owe" him he would have been gone already?!
Tue, 2006-12-05 22:43
#9
M. Spector
So firing Zac is supposed to "restore our trust" in the RCMP?
What a quaint notion!
Wed, 2006-12-06 09:17
#10
Maybe they can't fire him...maybe if they fire him he will "sing like a canary". Nailing the neocons that perhaps told him to lie to the Canadian people. What then?
Maybe it was the neocon via US eavesdropping techniques that used the rcmp to leak and topple the liberals...suppose he nails them on that?
Treason? [img]cool.gif" border="0[/img]
Wed, 2006-12-06 12:03
#11
Wed, 2006-12-06 12:59
#12
remind
quote:
Originally posted by josh:
[b]Resigns.[/b]
Well, what kind of payout is he getting I wonder?
And Harper made the announcement in QP instead of answering Dion's question. So, Stephen what's the answer, all of us Canadians want to know?
quote:
“Today Commissioner Zaccardelli submitted his resignation to me and I have accepted it,” Harper told the House of Commons. “The commissioner indicated to me that it would be in the best interest of the RCMP to have new leadership as this great organization faces the challenges of the future.”[b]Harper made the announcement after Liberal Leader Stephane Dion asked the prime minister when he knew about the contradictory testimony Zaccardelli provided to a parliamentary committee about the Maher Arar case.[/b]
“I’d like to thank the commissioner for his long and dedicated service to the country,” Harper said...“This government is concerned with his testimony today and we will study his testimony,” Harper responded Tuesday when asked how he could still have trust in Zaccardelli.
Wed, 2006-12-06 13:19
#13
so, now he's resigned, can he still be prosecuted or whatever happens when you perjur yourself in front of a govt. committee, or is he now immune from any action?
Wed, 2006-12-06 19:24
#14
More to the point, those who would have the issue go away will now pretend it is over.
We still don't know who leaked all those nasty and totally fabricated things about Arar in an attempt to smear him.
Wed, 2006-12-06 19:57
#15
quote:
More to the point, those who would have the issue go away will now pretend it is over.
We still don't know who leaked all those nasty and totally fabricated things about Arar in an attempt to smear him. -arborman
I received assurance from a member of the Legislative Committee that the issue does not end with the resignation.
Also:
quote:
From CAIR CAN- FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE -
ZACCARDELLI' S RESIGNATION INSUFFICIENT
(Ottawa, Canada - Dec 6, 2006) The Canadian Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR-CAN) welcomes the resignation of RCMP Commissioner
Zaccardelli as an important first step, however, accountability in the Arar affair must extend to all departments, agencies and individuals involved.The Commissioner' s resignation comes after a flip-flop in testimony as to when he became aware the RCMP passed inaccurate and damaging information on Maher Arar to American authorities.
"Accountability goes beyond the resignation of Zaccardelli. It is critical that all departments, agencies and individuals involved in Mr. Arar's ordeal be held accountable, " said Karl Nickner CAIR-CAN's Executive Director.
Justice O'Connor recommended an independent review to investigate the role Canadian agencies played in the overseas detainment and torture of Mr. Almalki, Mr. El Maati, and Mr. Nureddin. The Arar report revealed the RCMP sent questions to Syrian officials while Mr. Almalki was detained and tortured.
"Canadians have a right to hear answers when Public Safety Minister Day's testifies before the Public Safety Committee tomorrow," he added.
- End -
CONTACT: CAIR-CAN Communications and Human Rights Coordinator Sameer Zuberi
at 613-795-2012, or CAIR-CAN Executive Director Karl Nickner at 613-254-9704
or 613-853-4111.----
The Council on American-Islamic Relations CANADA is a federally incorporated, non-profit organization working to empower Canadian
Muslims in the fields of the media, human rights, and political activism.
[ 06 December 2006: Message edited by: sidra ]
Thu, 2006-12-07 02:41
#16
remind
quote:
Originally posted by sidra:
I received assurance from a member of the Legislative Committee that the issue does not end with the resignation.Also:
[b]Justice O'Connor recommended an independent review to investigate the role Canadian agencies played in the overseas detainment and torture of Mr. Almalki, Mr. El Maati, and Mr. Nureddin. The Arar report revealed the RCMP sent questions to Syrian officials while Mr. Almalki was detained and tortured."Canadians have a right to hear answers when Public Safety Minister Day's testifies before the Public Safety Committee tomorrow," he added.
[/b]
Wow, so the RCMP even sent questions to Syrian officials? To me this means they were fully complicit in his torture and confinement!
And as I said is Stockwell going down over this too? One can hope and pray that it is so!
Thu, 2006-12-07 09:50
#17
M. Spector
The Zac resignation leaves so many unresolved issues.
Was he lying in September or was he lying this week, one Liberal MP asked him. We don't know the answer. He could have been lying both times. Conventional wisdom seems to be that his September story was the truth - i.e., that he knew shortly after Arar was deported to Syria that it had been in part because of false information given by the RCMP to the US gestapo. But is that true?. And if it is, those around him must have known also, and were equally complicit in the stonewalling. When will they resign?
Is Harper lying when he says he put no pressure on Zac to resign? Is he relying on the technicality that all the pressure came from Doris Day? Obviously someone pressured him to resign, since only the day before he had said he wasn't going to do so.
Has the RCMP stopped giving information to the USA terror-state? If not, why not? They are known to practice torture and to deny basic procedural rights to suspects, just like Syria does. Moreover, the US is apparently not sharing information with our gestapo: Today, Doris testified before the Commons committee that the Yanks cited "privacy laws" (!) recently when they refused to tell him whether Maher Arar is still on the US terror-watch list!
Was Zaccardelli beholden to Chrйtien? Lawrence Martin in today's Globe relates an incident that may be significant:
quote:
At a reception a few years back, the jovial Mr. Zaccardelli was going on about how he had recently returned to his native Italy and was greeted like a hero for having done so well in Canada. He noted that Liberal MP Maurizio Bevilacqua was from the same part of Italy but didn't enjoy nearly the same repute. At the time, Mr. Bevilacqua was a strong supporter of Paul Martin and had been rebuffed in his bid to become a cabinet member. [b]As for the RCMP commissioner, he liked Jean Chrйtien.[/b] "Well, you know what happened, eh?" said Mr. Zaccardelli as he compared his career with that of his friend's. "Maurizio backed the wrong horse."
Martin also notes that the RCMP had been "quick in clearing Mr. Chrйtien of any alleged wrongdoing on the Shawinigate file." The theme is supported by a reference in the Globe's editorial today:
quote:
The RCMP under Mr. Zaccardelli played a role in what a judge considered a campaign to ruin banker Franзois Beaudoin, [b]who crossed prime minister Jean Chrйtien.[/b]
Thu, 2006-12-07 11:44
#18
Boom Boom
I watched the committee hearings this morning, and it sounded like Day is stonewalling. Again, in Question Period today - but now the PM is stonewalling as well as Day.
Thu, 2006-12-07 13:12
#19
I'm at a lose as to why Stockwell "Doris" Day is involved in a cover up. This whole fiasco started with the Liberals giving Zaccardelli the job they were in power when Arar was tortured. Is he covering for the Liberals? Will he jump ship like Belinda? Hmmmm. [img]wink.gif" border="0[/img]
Thu, 2006-12-07 13:12
#20
Boom Boom
Doris Day called Mark Holland "Perry Mason on Steroids" - but he's really a pit bull on steroids! Go, Mark! [img]biggrin.gif" border="0[/img]
Thu, 2006-12-07 14:00
#21
[url=http://a123.g.akamai.net/f/123/12465/1d/www.canada.com/montrealgazette/a... what a big nose you have..........[/url]
I should always mention this and forget, this is by Aislin in the Montrйal Gazette.
[ 08 December 2006: Message edited by: clersal ]
Fri, 2006-12-08 07:25
#22
Boom Boom
Maher Arar responds to all of this at noon today - his press conference will be carried live on CBC Newsworld, likely all of the other networks as well.
Fri, 2006-12-08 10:41
#23
Boom Boom
[url=http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20061208.wArar08/BNSt... 'Accountablility goes far beyond the resignation of one person'[/url]
OTTAWA — Maher Arar is calling on the government to launch an independent investigation into leaks to the media that falsely linked him to terrorist activities.
Mr. Arar says he's been permanently affected by the stigma attached to the allegations and he says the resignation of RCMP Commissioner Giuliano Zaccardelli, effective next Thursday, does not adequately address the issue of accountability.
“Accountablility goes far beyond the resignation of one person,” Mr. Arar said Friday.
- snip -
Mr. Arar's lawyer, Julian Falconer, says the damage has filtered through the entire Arar family — Mr. Arar himself is banned from travelling to 70 countries, a brother in the United States lost his trucking business, and his parents have “aged horribly” over the course of the four-year ordeal.
Mr. Falconer says it's “absolutely essential” that parties responsible for the fiasco are identified and held accountable for their actions.
Fri, 2006-12-08 10:45
#24
So we're going to have a second Arar Commission?
Fri, 2006-12-08 10:50
#25
Boom Boom
I doubt the Cons would agree. They want this laid to rest. Day is talking about compensation for the Arars next week. I wonder if we'll ever find out who the sources were for inaccuarte information that led to Arar being deported and tortured.
Fri, 2006-12-08 12:00
#26
quote:
Originally posted by Boom Boom:
[b]I wonder if we'll ever find out who the sources were for inaccuarte information that led to Arar being deported and tortured.[/b]
We already have. The O'Connor report names the officers involved in Project A-O Canada and specifically the one who wrote the request for the customs lookout that originally labelled Arar as an "Islamic Extremist." What we don't know, and won't likely find out now, are the identities of the anonymous officials who leaked stories to the press after Arar returned to Canada.
Fri, 2006-12-08 12:45
#27
Boom Boom
quote:
Originally posted by pogge:
The O'Connor report names the officers involved in Project A-O Canada and specifically the one who wrote the request for the customs lookout that originally labelled Arar as an "Islamic Extremist."
I didn't know that - haven't read the report. Have any of these guys been punished or demoted?
Fri, 2006-12-08 13:40
#28
M. Spector
Not a single one. Most have been promoted.
[url=http://www.rabble.ca/columnists_full.shtml?x=55282]Rick Salutin:[/url]
quote:
It's a stretch to think RCMP Commissioner Giuliano Zaccardelli quit over the Arar case. If that was so, he should have done it after his testimony in September when he said he knew about the injustice done to Maher Arar but failed to take serious action to fix it. And if he wouldn't go, the Harper government could have pushed him. We're told at least three cabinet ministers proposed that, but the PM said no.Now we're supposed to think he resigned because, as he testified this week, he hadn't really known how ugly the case was, he just thought he had. Failing to do the right thing is not grounds to go; mistakenly thinking you failed to act is? It's a peculiar scenario. Here's my effort to make sense of it.
This isn't about the Arar case, which was dealt with in the O'Connor report. It's about the last election, when the RCMP interfered in a way that led to Paul Martin's defeat and Stephen Harper's election. The force has made other gaffes, but listing them leads to undervaluing that election involvement.
In the midst of the campaign, the commissioner faxed an NDP MP, saying the Mounties were investigating then-finance minister Ralph Goodale, one of the big Liberals untinged by scandal. They don't normally do this. Nothing has come of the investigation. They could have waited. They could have kept it quiet.
Instead, they even phoned the NDP MP to say, You've got mail, making sure she knew it was on the way. It tipped the election. She went public, the Conservatives shot up 10 points and passed the Liberals for good. It turned the tide and led to a Harper government. I say focus on this, because it could help explain why the PM effectively protected the commish after his damaging September testimony, as if to thank him.
[ 08 December 2006: Message edited by: M. Spector ]
Fri, 2006-12-08 13:53
#29
[url=http://a123.g.akamai.net/f/123/12465/1d/www.canada.com/montrealgazette/a... poor horses[/url]
Fri, 2006-12-08 14:10
#30
OAUWO ! A whole "new" angle (to me anyway). No wonder, the MP on the Committee said he is determined to "go to the bottom of the affair" even after the resignation. I thought he meant Why officers were not punished and such..
Thanks M. for this link.
Fri, 2006-12-08 15:17
#31
M. Spector
You're welcome.
What's OAUWO?
Fri, 2006-12-08 15:19
#32
quote:
Originally posted by Boom Boom:
[b]Have any of these guys been punished or demoted?[/b]
Nope. Some have been promoted.
Fri, 2006-12-08 15:30
#33
Regarding the Zaccardelli, Harper election link, The Economist ran an interesting picture of the pair out for a stroll together just b4 the last election. They seemed to be implying a close relationship between the pair.
This from Socialism.com.
[img]http://www.socialism.com/fsarticles/vol27no2/canadianelection.jpg[/img]
![http://www.socialism.com/fsarticles/vol27no2/canadianelection.jpg[/img]](http://www.socialism.com/fsarticles/vol27no2/canadianelection.jpg[/img]){kind=link}
Zaccardelli has made so many questionable decisions, it's a wonder he wasn't fired for any one of them. Mayerthorpe is a particular bug of mine. I suspect the former RCMP cozied up to power to boost his career and had no real convictions re. Liberal or Con. Harper's "law and order" platform may have been enough to sway him at the last changing of the guard.
Fri, 2006-12-08 15:50
#34
remind
Hmmm, in light of all this interesting stuff on the spurious press release and Harper's frienship with Zaccarelli, it puts a whole new light on Harper's giving the RCMP more money for officers and updating the training centre in Regina as almost the first thing he did.
Could it have been a pay off?
Fri, 2006-12-08 16:10
#35
Boom Boom
From the Globe article today:
"It is unclear, apparently even to the government, whether Mr. Arar remains on a U.S. security watchlist."
Fri, 2006-12-08 16:18
#36
M. Spector
quote:
Originally posted by Boom Boom:
[b]"It is unclear, apparently even to the government, whether Mr. Arar remains on a U.S. security watchlist."[/b]
Yes, we knew about that yesterday, when Stockwell Day testified to the Commons committee. He said he asked them about it, and they refused to tell him, citing "privacy laws"!
Funny how privacy laws don't stop [b]our[/b] government from sharing information about us with the US gestapo!
Fri, 2006-12-08 16:22
#37
Boom Boom
Yes, I watched Day say that yesterday, too, but didn't see it in print until today.
Fri, 2006-12-08 16:43
#38
quote:
What's OAUWO? M. SPector
Expression of surprise (I do not know how to write it the English way, so it it French flavoured [img]smile.gif" border="0[/img]
Fri, 2006-12-08 16:59
#39
M. Spector
Oh.
I thought it might be one of those text-message-speak acronyms that you youngsters are using these days. [img]biggrin.gif" border="0[/img]
Sun, 2006-12-10 07:53
#40
Here's how we deal with situations where some people might be inclined to lie about things on Green Island - [url=http://www.rudemacedon.ca/lgi/pts/pts19.html]http://www.rudemacedon.ca/l...
Thu, 2007-04-12 00:02
#41
[url=http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20070411.wxrcmpcomish... commissioner to be chosen by insiders: Search-group members have close history to force, civil-liberties proponent says[/url]
And what's more, there's speculation that Jamie "Target Practice" Graham, who recently announced his retirement as Vancouver police chief to avoid the embarassment of not having his contract renewed, is one of the candidates! I suppose it's not that much worse than Fantino being chosen to head the OPP, but still....
quote:
Chairing the five-member search committee is Margaret Bloodworth, Prime Minister Stephen Harper's national security adviser and a career civil servant.Norman Inkster, a former RCMP commissioner, is also on the panel, along with Suzanne Hurtubise, who is the deputy minister for Public Safety Minister Stockwell Day.
Rounding out the committee are two of Mr. Day's predecessors, former solicitors-general Jean-Jacques Blais, a Liberal, and James F. Kelleher, a Tory.
Jason Gratl, president of the British Columbia Civil Liberties Association, said he was surprised that there are no outsiders on the search committee. ...
He noted that the Conservative government placed police representatives on the panels that screen candidates for federal judgeships, yet it has put together a search committee for the RCMP commissioner's job consisting entirely of people with a close history with the force.
"I would say the committee seems pretty loaded with Ottawa insiders," said Warren Allmand, who, as Pierre Trudeau's solicitor-general, was also responsible for the RCMP.
Mr. Allmand said he thinks that Mr. Blais, his former cabinet colleague, "isn't afraid to speak his mind."
But on the whole, he said, the search committee does not seem particularly oriented toward civil liberties concerns, or to the local policing issues in the four Atlantic and four western provinces where the Mounties act as municipal and provincial police. ...
The names of the search committee members have never been publicly announced. But a source close to the process disclosed them.
Melissa Leclerc, the spokeswoman for Mr. Day, said the government feels the members of the search committee are all well qualified for their duties.
They've all been involved "in defending civil liberties throughout their lives." ...
The government has said it will consider an appointment from outside the force, leading to speculation in government and police circles that Vancouver City Police Chief Jamie Graham, a former Mountie, or Montreal Police Chief Yvan Delorme might be short-listed if they are interested in the position.
Thu, 2007-04-12 04:29
#42
N.Beltov
quote:
He noted that the Conservative government placed police representatives on the panels that screen candidates for federal judgeships, yet it has put together a search committee for the RCMP commissioner's job consisting entirely of people with a close history with the force.
i.e., the Conservatives want police state institutions to oversee human rights and civil liberties matters ... but those specially concerned with civil liberties and human rights matters can stay out of police state matters.
And Conservatives wonder why they are sometimes compared to fascists and Nazis. They're next door neighbours, that's why.
Thu, 2007-04-12 10:06
#43
remind
quote:
Originally posted by N.Beltov:
[b]... the Conservatives want police state institutions to oversee human rights and civil liberties matters ... but those specially concerned with civil liberties and human rights matters can stay out of police state matters.And Conservatives wonder why they are sometimes compared to fascists and Nazis. They're next door neighbours, that's why.[/b]
Yes, they are actually. And Canadians really need to understand this.
Tue, 2008-09-02 18:44
#44
remind
And yet, apparently we are supposed to believe his words, nowadays, and I guess he is the gift that keeps on giving to the Cons at election time.
CBC National News tonight is going to inform us that Canada's "Ex RCMP Commissioner" believes that "Canadians might be at risk" and he is going to tell us why.