CBC and the "Abolish Abortion" Group PART II
Fri, 2007-06-22 05:41
#1
CBC and the "Abolish Abortion" Group PART II
Fri, 2007-06-22 05:41
#2
This is a continuation of this [url=http://www.rabble.ca/babble/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic&f=24&t=001200]p... thread. [/url]
Fri, 2007-06-22 05:45
#3
I don't see why voting multiple times is "cheating". The whole thing is a stupid farce anyhow and has been freeped by a tiny minority of people who want to take away women's rights. And the CBC is thrilled with the result - they think it proves something or other. It's a big sociological experiment to them.
Well, voting multiple times is just as much a sociological outcome of some stupid thing like this as allowing your poll to be freeped by a right-wing minority and then giving them a national platform to spew their woman-hating agenda.
I wonder if they'd be so complacent if some racist, right-wing fringe decided to freep the poll with something like, "I wish Canada could be preserved for the white race" or "I wish all Jews and Muslims would convert to Christianity in Canada"?
[ 22 June 2007: Message edited by: Michelle ]
Fri, 2007-06-22 05:47
#4
Voting multiple times, and non canadians voting, are probably the two biggest sources of cheating.
Voting multiple times is cheating because it's exploiting a glitch. Any playing of a game using different rules is cheating.
Fri, 2007-06-22 05:48
#5
P.S. I think instead of "cheating" on the choice question, we should get a team of people together to "cheat" on a parody question and make it the winner.
Fri, 2007-06-22 05:48
#6
writer
Believe me, I've been saying from the start that this contest is STUPID. And I responded to the pro-choice wish's concern about cheating in this discussion:
[url=http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=2355464304&topic=2773]http://www.f...
On the anti-choice wall:
quote:
Word down the grapevine is that there are whole Catholic schools voting for the Pro-Life side; that may help to explain the higher numbers this morning.
What would these people say if secular schools were organized to vote for choice? You KNOW they would go apeshit.
Fri, 2007-06-22 05:59
#7
writer
[url=http://www.facebook.com/sgroup/subgroup.php?sub_oid=2332283546&ref=share]I wish the CBC would stop creating stupid youth-outreach campaigns...[/url]
[url=http://www.facebook.com/sgroup/subgroup.php?oid=2392827649&sub_oid=23931... Wishes from this List that Violate Human Rights[/url]
[url=http://www.facebook.com/sgroup/subgroup.php?oid=2392827649&sub_oid=24063... wish Bob and Doug Mckenzie become official National Emblems[/url]
[url=http://www.facebook.com/sgroup/subgroup.php?oid=2392827649&sub_oid=23541... did you delete my wish? Once again, I wish for Canada to return to GOD[/url]
Fri, 2007-06-22 06:03
#8
I tried the cheating thing to see if it would work earlier and it did. I think I did something like 10 or 15 votes. Not sure.
Anyhow, at this point both sides have cheated so much that it doesn't really matter who cheats now. But I'll respect her wishes and not do it again.
Fri, 2007-06-22 07:53
#9
writer
Just posted this to the pro-choice wall:
quote:
"Free Republic is the premier online gathering place for independent, grass-roots conservatism on the web. We're working to roll back decades of governmental largesse, to root out political fraud and corruption, and to champion causes which further conservatism in America..."Freep this Poll! TheGreatCanadianWishList needs a pro-life hand
Help!! The uber-socialist ponytails at the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation have sponsored the Great Canadian Wish List on their website. Probably they imagined that Canadians would create wishes like "Che Guevara on the dollar coin," or "force the Catholic Church to bless interspecies unions," but to their SHOCK and horror, (and to the surprise of the nascent conservative minority) the number one wish is this ...
Abolish Abortion in Canada
[url=http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1854468/posts[/quote]]http://ww...
[/url]
[ 22 June 2007: Message edited by: writer ]
Fri, 2007-06-22 08:04
#10
Progressive people should pay no attention to foolishness of this nature (I know, I know, I had one lapse yesterday, but it was tongue in cheek...).
There is no significant support in this country for restricting current abortion practices, nor for restoring "traditional" marriage.
The best way, therefore, to deal with vocal fanatic minorities is to ignore them and laugh them off - not to debate or "compete" with them.
The CBC and Facebook have (inadvertently or otherwise) created a "virtual" platform which these creeps would never have in real life. For us to participate in that is also to provide them with credibility they could never achieve in real life. Even if we "win", the number of votes on the misogynist side will give a horribly false impression of the strength of anti-choice opinion.
In the previous thread, babblerwannabe responded to my comment that the contest was not serious:
quote:
This contest might not be serious, but it has influence on some of us. While you might not think this is something worth looking at, the wish list has been distressing and upsetting for some of us, and we will express our feelings about it.
That is very true. But if the response to being disressed and upset is to get caught up in this trap, then the fanatical provocateurs have achieved their aim. I think the best way to deal with a provocation is to condemn it as a provocation, and move on.
Fri, 2007-06-22 08:09
#11
writer
I remember when the U.S. Moral Majority was laughed off. Not so funny, now.
Fri, 2007-06-22 08:19
#12
quote:
Originally posted by writer:
[b]I remember when the U.S. Moral Majority was laughed off. Not so funny, now.[/b]
I agree with you. Please don't seize on just one aspect. The issue is, how do we fight them. And I think part of the answer is: "Not on their turf."
Fri, 2007-06-22 08:26
#13
I think I agree with you on this point, unionist. I also see the point, though, that we can't always choose where the public square is, and we can't give it up to the anti-choicers.
On the other hand, though, perhaps the goal for us pro-choicers shouldn't necessarily be to WIN this contest, but to use this contest and the facebook rallying capabilities to build something.
Fri, 2007-06-22 08:38
#14
writer
Yes. And it's also important to know that there are likely a lot of people being politicized about this through the contest. We refuse to participate, and we lose that connection.
So, we remain snug, talking with each other about how it doesn't matter. And they are left horrified by the efforts of the reactionary right, with a reduced sense of what other alternatives are out there for organized opposition.
Fri, 2007-06-22 08:45
#15
remind
Wow, go away for an evening and look at what happens, a way to cheat by the anti-rights religious whack jobs was found. However, this is a wonderful development IMV. Not a bad thing at all and it was a good call by the creator of the pro-choice wish not to cheat.
I said this at the Don't Cheat thread:
quote:
What an interesting development over the course of a day..This phenomina of the anti-choice base groups finding ways to pervert the outcome of polls and voting is nothing new. They have taken courses on how to do this.
What is amazing to me is, that they do not realize what an act of disbelief in God's will that it is, when they cheat and skew polls and votes.
If they truly believed in God, and the omnipotence of God, they should then realize whatever the outcome was, if it was let grow organically, there would be the wishes of God expressed.
That they feel compelled to cheat, to skew the outcome, exposes that they are conducting themselves in the opposite expression of God's will.
In part, this understanding can be contained in the old addage: "cheater's never prosper". Or one can think of it like athelites dopping themselves to win.
Yes, when you cheat it is a win, but it means nothing. In this case, it will be an embarassment for them, nothing like hearing your group won because of cheating on national TV before millions of Canadians. What a good way for them to gain support for their cause, eh?!
Not only do they seek to remove charter rights, but they seek to pervert democracy and control Canadian's beliefs and actions, nothing could expose this to Canadians more than this action they have taken.
Good for them in this action, now ALL Canadians will know them for what they are cheaters aka liars and subverters of democracy.
Good job on alienating all Canadians you anti-rights people.
Nothing, in my view, could have drawn people, especially women, across Canada together in unity to oppose them. Both for this wish and in society at large. Those who would not know what and who they are, because of disinterest in politics, now have been exposed. Pandora's Box is open now to see how this plays out.
Thinking about this even further, this could mean that people who never vote just might be compelled to do so. Perhaps a post should be presented at the pro-choice wish noting that this new government of Harpers sponsored the anti-rights March as well.
Fri, 2007-06-22 08:52
#16
I'm pretty sure our side was cheating too, remind. Our numbers went up pretty quickly. I think it's also true that their side started cheating first - I first noticed it last night in the other thread when Will S posted about how the numbers were suddenly skyrocketing on the pro-life side. But I think people on our side also jumped in afterwards and did it. (I even did a few this morning after it was obvious that the pro-life side cheated their way into hundreds of votes overnight, but I stopped after a few because it just felt cheap.)
Fri, 2007-06-22 08:52
#17
writer
I think there's been an effort to manipulate both wishes.
These two messages were just posted on the pro-choice wall:
quote:
EVERYBODY LOOK AT THE TOP 10See something fishy?
quote:
I'm confused. Why are we ahead in ranking but behind in numbers?
... It's not loading for me, so I can't see the latest.
From "Don't Cheat" (pro-choice discussion):
quote:
This contest began as a misguided alternative to an opinion poll; an experiment in social networking and memetics. Despite intentions, the nature of the contest is inherently polarizing, facilitating angry "debate" over productive discussion. Through posting the cheat, I have seen opponents make accusations referencing post order, vote counts, and morality. We are too quick to judge the intentions of others, based only upon a fragile knowledge of one small aspect of a (mostly) coherent morality. The whirlwind of freedom, life, and rights, may encompass these debates, but at the eye of this storm lies the root of the disagreement. It is our responsibility to weather the winds of rhetoric and find the relative calm: only then can invariable progress is made.While we live in a democracy, the validity of an idea is *not* determined by a popularity contest, nor is it determined by the strength of the convictions of an ideas proponents. The numbers beside the ideas indicate nothing beyond the efficiency of the supporter-harvesting effort. The rampant cheating will hopefully bring focus back to the ideas, where our attention belongs. The experiment in memetics is over, but the experiment in the Canadian Spirit has just begun.
[ 22 June 2007: Message edited by: writer ]
Fri, 2007-06-22 08:55
#18
writer
I think we're seeing some serious hacking to reveal the absurdity of the whole thing. Brilliant.
quote:
ickle: An ICQ2000 client for GTK+ Ickle is an ICQ client which is able to communicate with ICQ servers using the new ICQ2000 protocol. This offers much better reliability than the older ICQ99 protocol. ickle has a constantly improving interface, now supporting history browsing, and much more. Ickle currently supports: * Sending/Receiving normal messages * Sending/Receiving URLs * Sending/Receiving SMS messages * Retrieving away messages This version is compiled without gnome support, for gnome support install the package `ickle-gnome'.[url=http://linux.about.com/cs/linux101/g/ickle.htm]what is an ickle[/url]
[ 22 June 2007: Message edited by: writer ]
Fri, 2007-06-22 09:05
#19
writer
The wall post "EVERYBODY LOOK AT THE TOP 10 See something fishy?" has disappeared. The rankings are back to being numerically based.
I think we're seeing "V" light, here. Probably more to come.
I'm back to being unable to post messages, comments or notes. (Got in a whole 6 today before being shut down.)
Fri, 2007-06-22 10:30
#20
remind
quote:
Originally posted by Michelle:
[b]I'm pretty sure our side was cheating too, remind. Our numbers went up pretty quickly. I think it's also true that their side started cheating first[/b]
Awww, but why? It was such a perfect way to expose them for what they are. Just like leaving the on line polls they freep alone, the results are so skewed, there would be no way anyone would believe them.
No matter, my comments still stand about who they are, and the results their actions will have.
Fri, 2007-06-22 12:27
#21
writer
At 4:22 today, the numbers were as follows:
1. 5515 Pro-Choice
2. [b]5770[/b] Abolish Abortion
These first two wishes are also wowing up and down by 5,000 votes fairly regularly now, minutes apart.
Fri, 2007-06-22 12:43
#22
remind
quote:
Originally posted by writer:
[b]At 4:22 today, the numbers were as follows:1. 5515 Pro-Choice
2. [b]5770[/b] Abolish AbortionThese first two wishes are also wowing up and down by 5,000 votes fairly regularly now, minutes apart.[/b]
Hmmm I do not get it? They dropped the numbers back down? And then they go back up?
Fri, 2007-06-22 13:23
#23
writer
I think someone is doing some serious monkey business. This is beyond supporters of one group or another. Forcing the second most popular wish to be listed as first is all about hacking.
From comments on walls, it looks like the tuition wish was ranked more highly -displacing the one for choice - for a moment.
Earlier this afternoon, votes for the top two were popping up from 5,000+ to 10,000+ and back down within minutes (or with a screen refresh).
Just now:
quote:
5537 I wish that Canada would remain pro-choice
5808 Abolish Abortion in Canada
2242 It's time for drastic measures to save our environment
2767 For a spiritual revival in our nation.
2
1
4
3
[ 22 June 2007: Message edited by: writer ]
Fri, 2007-06-22 13:51
#24
remind
quote:
Originally posted by writer:
[b]I think someone is doing some serious monkey business. This is beyond supporters of one group or another. Forcing the second most popular wish to be listed as first is all about hacking.[/b]
The anti-rights wish isdown 80 from the last time I checked in.
Fri, 2007-06-22 14:17
#25
The reason I "cheated" is to assist in removing the legitimacy of this wish platform as a springboard for more anti-abortion fulminations.
Young idealistic pro-choicers may not be old enough to remember but the anti-abortion crowd is capable of shooting off more than just their mouths.
This whole fiasco is idiotic from the get-go.The geniuses in charge got some 'splainin to do to the suits in Toronto. Somehow,I doubt the CBC brass will enjoy this controversy.
Fri, 2007-06-22 14:23
#26
writer
I hear you.
Edited to add: seems that Facebook is pulling votes outside Canada and has fixed the multiple votes. Pro-choice is now behind by under 300.
[ 22 June 2007: Message edited by: writer ]
Fri, 2007-06-22 14:50
#27
writer
Top Wishes By Membership
10557 Abolish Abortion in Canada
9679 I wish that Canada would remain pro-choice
3779 For a spiritual revival in our nation.
2381 Restore the Traditional Definition of Marriage
[b]10648 I wish tuition fees would be either lowered or eliminated.[/b]
2878 It's time for drastic measures to save our environment
1222 Proportional representation
1139 A Canada where no one must choose between paying rent and their medication
1091 Canada should keep ABORTIONS and GAY MARRIAGE Legal!
894 Greener Canada
Fri, 2007-06-22 14:56
#28
writer
Top Wishes By Membership
5848 Abolish Abortion in Canada
5572 I wish that Canada would remain pro-choice
2785 For a spiritual revival in our nation.
2320 Restore the Traditional Definition of Marriage
2310 I wish tuition fees would be either lowered or eliminated.
2253 It's time for drastic measures to save our environment
1222 Proportional representation
1139 A Canada where no one must choose between paying rent and their medication
1091 Canada should keep ABORTIONS and GAY MARRIAGE Legal!
894 Greener Canada
Sat, 2007-06-23 10:30
#29
Sorry, I don't care about this contest anymore. i just don't believe the numbers. No way. This is a freaking joke.
I am boycotting this wish list and have removed my support from the pro choice wish.
[ 23 June 2007: Message edited by: babblerwannabe ]
Wed, 2007-06-27 07:21
#30
writer
[url=http://www.rabble.ca/rabble_interview.shtml?x=60389]The CBC, Facebook and one little wish[/url], rabble.ca
As of six minutes ago, the anti-choice wish has 8,127 supporters. The pro-choice wish has 6,613.
Wed, 2007-06-27 07:32
#31
Yay jrose! Excellent article!
Wed, 2007-06-27 08:38
#32
So, if the woman-hating reactionary troglodyte waste of skin that is the anti-choice movement prevails, what must be done to prevent them from getting the free airtime on the CBC to spew their right-wing hateful vomit masquerading as a 'wish'?
A court injunction?
Protests at CBC stations?
Disruptions of any other Canada Day events sponsored/covered by the CBC or its affiliates?
From the pro-war propaganda on Hockey Night in Canada to this Goebbels-type experiment in online social engineering, it's now obvious that the CBC is the Conservatives' primary tool to spread its agenda of reactionary fascist evil.
It's not the people's network anymore - shut it down.
Wed, 2007-06-27 08:39
#33
Thanks Michelle!
Wed, 2007-06-27 09:54
#34
Lard Tunderin Jeezus
quote:
Originally posted by Ursa Minor:
[b]So, if the woman-hating reactionary troglodyte waste of skin that is the anti-choice movement prevails, what must be done to prevent them from getting the free airtime on the CBC to spew their right-wing hateful vomit masquerading as a 'wish'?A court injunction?
Protests at CBC stations?
Disruptions of any other Canada Day events sponsored/covered by the CBC or its affiliates?From the pro-war propaganda on Hockey Night in Canada to this Goebbels-type experiment in online social engineering, it's now obvious that the CBC is the Conservatives' primary tool to spread its agenda of reactionary fascist evil.
It's not the people's network anymore - shut it down.[/b]
Shut it down, and they've got what they wanted all along.
Your first impulse was correct - protest!
Demand the heads of the top brass!
Remove Preston Manning from the airwaves - neo-con dogma already has [i]hundreds[/i] of hate-talk-radio outlets across the country.
Last week I heard Asper Jr. on CBC Radio, being given the opportunity to justify the shamefully one-sided propaganda machine that he oversees. WTF is that about? He already owns half the media in this country - he needs yet another platform?
So while I agree that the Harper Conservatives are making a farce of the CBC mandate, I think it's long past time to make a [b]HUGE[/b] issue out of it.
I'll see you at the protest on Canada Day. Where are we meeting?
[ 27 June 2007: Message edited by: Lard Tunderin' Jeezus ]
Wed, 2007-06-27 10:16
#35
quote:
Originally posted by Ursa Minor:
[b]
It's not the people's network anymore - shut it down.[/b]
That'll real piss off the extreme right troglodytes, won't it?
1. The CBC made a dumb mistake with this Facebook nonsense.
2. Progressives ought to have said: "This is bullshit, don't participate."
3. Anti-choice would have scored 10,000 to about 50.
4. Leaving the CBC with a choice between carrying on with the farce and saying, "Well, gosh, looks like 99.9% of Canadians are anti-abortion - who knew!?", or calling it off.
This way, it just looks like a narrow win for the anti-choice.
A narrow win for pro-choice would have looked just as bad.
So no, Ursa, the CBC should not be shut down. It's a very good thing which we should work hard to keep honest and improve. Coolly and rationally.
Wed, 2007-06-27 11:14
#36
Good point, unionist, about boycotting the wish contest.
Wed, 2007-06-27 11:19
#37
And good point about pointing out the blindness of the CBC. Sure, it entered my mind for about two seconds that this was a pre-meditated and malicious attack, but in all reality, I see it as a poor, stupid mistake on the part of the CBC, trying to keep up with a new technology that in no-way has the potential that they were hoping for.
Wed, 2007-06-27 11:28
#38
remind
quote:
Originally posted by jrose:
[b]...I see it as a poor, stupid mistake on the part of the CBC, trying to keep up with a new technology that in no-way has the potential that they were hoping for.[/b]
I don't.
good article.
Wed, 2007-06-27 14:13
#39
quote:
Originally posted by jrose:
[b]Thanks Michelle![/b]
Nicely done article. I am so happy to have contributed to it!
[ 27 June 2007: Message edited by: babblerwannabe ]
Wed, 2007-06-27 14:41
#40
quote:
Originally posted by Lard Tunderin' Jeezus:
[b]Shut it down, and they've got what they wanted all along.I'll see you at the protest on Canada Day. Where are we meeting?
[ 27 June 2007: Message edited by: Lard Tunderin' Jeezus ][/b]
You're right, shutting it down is probably what they want, but I am so pissed off at the CBC's complicity in promoting the Harper agenda. As for a protest on Canada Day - downtown Vancouver is pretty much closed so picketing the CBC studios there might not do much.
I would think the best tactic is to hang out at any Canada Day events, watch for CBC crews, and confront them about how they feel about working for a reprehensible misongynist employer.
The fact that the anti-choice movement gets an hour infomercial from the national public broadcaster is an outright atrocity. These are the same people who bomb women's health clinics and try to murder physicians, by the government's own definition they should be treated as terrorists.
If in fact, we have been forced to choose between a public broadcaster that acts as the propaganda wing for Capitalists and Christofascists, and no public broadcaster at all, I choose no public broadcaster at all. What's next, programs saluting the tar sands? scab labour? police brutality? A docudrama about the shooting of Dudley George making Mike Harris the good guy?
In the meantime, I'll continue to swing my backpack and shove the hateful human excrement who block the sidewalks at Broadway and Commercial every Friday because they think their God lets them tell to take away the hard fought rights of others.
Don't respect other's opinions when they're just wrong, and don't let them put their lies on TV.
Wed, 2007-06-27 15:03
#41
Banning abortion is not part of the Harper agenda.
He probably sometimes has trouble sleeping at night, in fear that prolife activists might be energized the next day.
Wed, 2007-06-27 15:11
#42
quote:
Originally posted by 500_Apples:
[b]Banning abortion is not part of the Harper agenda.
[/b]
Your reassurances are much appreciated, but I think we'll just stay a teeny bit vigilant anyway, if you don't mind.
Wed, 2007-06-27 15:45
#43
Yes, congratulations to writer and babblerwannabe too - you really got to the heart of the matter.
[ 28 June 2007: Message edited by: Michelle ]
Wed, 2007-06-27 17:23
#44
quote:
Originally posted by Ursa Minor:
[b]These are the same people who bomb women's health clinics and try to murder physicians, by the government's own definition they should be treated as terrorists.
[/b]
The percentage of pro-lifers who have ever bombed an abortion clinic or tried to murder a physician is, obviously, tiny. If 10% of Canadian adults (there are roughly [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Canada#Age_structure]20,000... Canadian adults) call themselves pro-life ([url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_Canada#Opinion_polls]a low estimate[/url]), and if the crimes you describe have been carried about by 100 people (a high estimate), then such crimes have been carried out by 0.005% of the pro-life population. Just because a movement has a terrorist fringe (as many movements do, across the political spectrum) does not mean that it is appropriate to label the entire movement "terrorist". Such rhetoric is not conducive to constructive discussion or debate.
Thu, 2007-06-28 15:34
#45
writer
quote:
The winner will be announced on Canada Day on CBC Newsworld, says CBC reporter Mike Wise, who came up with the wish list project with youth group Student Vote.... "We stepped out into an area where, because it was on Facebook, it was beyond the reach of the CBC journalistic policy so it was edgier stuff that we had no control of. However, I think we should get some marks for trying something different."
... Wise says he will file a radio report Saturday and a Newsworld report Sunday that will explore some of the issues and pitfalls surrounding the project.
[url=http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20070628/cbc_faceboo... Facebook experiment dogged by controversy[/url]
Fri, 2007-06-29 05:52
#46
writer
Anyone else not able to get on? All of the sudden, Facebook seemed to shut down. Now, I can't even get the basic URL to load.
Fri, 2007-06-29 06:10
#47
I can't load the page writer.
Fri, 2007-06-29 06:14
#48
Mine is "unavailable for maintenence"
Fri, 2007-06-29 07:01
#49
writer
Yeah, I just tried again. Got the page, tried to log on, and this came up:
quote:
Hey, your account is temporarily unavailable due to site maintenance. It should be available again within a few hours. We apologize for the inconvenience.
There's nothing about this situation on the CBC's Wish blog: [url=http://www.cbc.ca/wish/]http://www.cbc.ca/wish/[/url]
[url=http://www.itbusiness.ca/it/client/en/home/News.asp?id=44135]CBC loses face[/url]
[url=http://www.kinggary.com/archives/i-cant-login-to-facebook-for-a-few-hour... can’t login to Facebook for a few hours[/url]
Hmmm ... so how does this fit in to the "success" of the CBC's "experiment"?
Fri, 2007-06-29 07:05
#50
Moi aussi.
Fri, 2007-06-29 07:13
#51
writer
There is also nothing about the crash on Facebook's own blog: [url=http://blog.facebook.com/]http://blog.facebook.com/[/url]