Are we living in a computer simulation?
Wed, 2007-08-15 06:08
#1
Are we living in a computer simulation?
Wed, 2007-08-15 06:08
#2
According to Dr. Nick Bostrom, director of the Future of Humanity Institute at Oxford, chances are that we are living in a version of the Sims or the World of Warcraft, being run by posthumans in the future.
quote:
Until I talked to Nick Bostrom, a philosopher at Oxford University, it never occurred to me that our universe might be somebody else’s hobby. I hadn’t imagined that the omniscient, omnipotent creator of the heavens and earth could be an advanced version of a guy who spends his weekends building model railroads or overseeing video-game worlds like the Sims.But now it seems quite possible. In fact, if you accept a pretty reasonable assumption of Dr. Bostrom’s, it is almost a mathematical certainty that we are living in someone else’s computer simulation.
snip!
Dr. Bostrom assumes that technological advances could produce a computer with more processing power than all the brains in the world, and that advanced humans, or “posthumans,” could run “ancestor simulations” of their evolutionary history by creating virtual worlds inhabited by virtual people with fully developed virtual nervous systems.
It sounds an awful lot like "brain in a vat" or The Matrix to me!
[url=http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/14/science/14tier.html]Our Lives, Controlled From Some Guy's Couch[/url]
ETA: link
[ 15 August 2007: Message edited by: M.Gregus ]
Wed, 2007-08-15 06:15
#3
Heh. Yeah, I've read lots of stuff along these lines. What if God is actually just some celestial kid and we're a science experiment?
Wed, 2007-08-15 06:19
#4
quote:
Originally posted by Michelle:
[b]What if God is actually just some celestial kid and we're a science experiment?[/b]
I think the people who invented God were just some earthly kids engaging in a (failed) science experiment.
Wed, 2007-08-15 06:20
#5
TemporalHominid
Yes you are, and I am programming the simulation.
Dance!
Wed, 2007-08-15 06:20
#6
TemporalHominid
Yes you are, and I am programming the simulation.
Dance!
syntax Error!
[ 15 August 2007: Message edited by: TemporalHominid ]
Wed, 2007-08-15 06:30
#7
Heh... I always had my doubts about God, but I never suspected that he was a futuristic anti-social gaming geek living in his parents basement.
Wed, 2007-08-15 06:32
#8
This is a new variant the deep and extremely important question, 'How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?'
Wed, 2007-08-15 06:32
#9
Now, is that a nice thing to say about TemporalHominid? I ask you. [img]biggrin.gif" border="0[/img]
Wed, 2007-08-15 07:00
#10
[url=http://www.accelerando.org/_static/accelerando.html]Accelerando by Charles Stross (free onlind book available) [/url] talks about this, where technology gets to a point where reality and computer simulations are virtually indistinguishable to us. Him along with about 4000 other scifi writers have thought about this one (the Matrix being the closest movie to this idea).
In the end, it still doesn't answer the 'God' question because even if we are in a computer simulation of an Alien Nerd, who created that Alien Nerd??
Wed, 2007-08-15 07:41
#11
Sven
quote:
Originally posted by quelar:
[b]…where technology gets to a point where reality and computer simulations are virtually indistinguishable to us. [/b]
There was a great article that I read the other day about a guy who is one of 8 million Second Life members who recently “married” a woman on Second Life, even though he’s married in real life. The guy consumes many hours every day “playing” Second Life, spending time with his virtual wife and other friends, and working on his virtual night club and other ventures. His real-life wife is not happy about it. It is creepy as hell.
It’s almost like a new drug. And, as technology advances, I think more and more people will start living in virtual worlds. Imagine a virtual world where a person [b][i]felt[/b][/i] what was happening to her or him in that virtual world? I can imagine electronic linking of the virtual world to a person’s brain so that certain parts of the real world person’s brain would be stimulated to simulate the sensations that the virtual person felt in the virtual world. If a person cut her finger in the virtual world, the real person would feel that sensation as though it was happening to her. It wouldn’t be that much of a leap to simulate sexual stimulation (can you say “three-hour orgasm”??). People would likely check out of real life in mass droves to “live” in such a simulated world and, essentially, become non-functioning drones in the real world. Hell, like the guy in the article, there are tens of thousands of people doing that already. As technology inevitably advances, the issue will simple become more acute.
Wed, 2007-08-15 08:10
#12
The book I link above dives a lot deeper into that, it asks questions about AI, and 'spin off' personalities (meaning that people can live entirely in the digital world, so they can create copies of themselves that split off from them and stay digital all the time) and whether these AI's and split offs would be legal citizens.
You're right though, this will become more of an issue as the technology improves and all I can say is, I think I'm going to end up being a luddite despite the fact that I'm presently very connected with most of the digital world, and have been for many years. But now that people are starting to have far more of their lives online (facebook, youtube, linkedin) I find myself wanting to pull back and meet people face to face again.
Wed, 2007-08-15 08:18
#13
Sven
quote:
Originally posted by quelar:
[b]The book I link above dives a lot deeper into that, it asks questions about AI, and 'spin off' personalities (meaning that people can live entirely in the digital world, so they can create copies of themselves that split off from them and stay digital all the time) and whether these AI's and split offs would be legal citizens. [/b]
Good book suggestion, quelar. I’m going to get it.
quote:
Originally posted by quelar:
[b]You're right though, this will become more of an issue as the technology improves and all I can say is, I think I'm going to end up being a luddite despite the fact that I'm presently very connected with most of the digital world, and have been for many years. But now that people are starting to have far more of their lives online (facebook, youtube, linkedin) I find myself wanting to pull back and meet people face to face again.[/b]
You know, I never thought that I would call myself a Luddite (I enjoy technology) but I’m with you on this one. For me, there’s nothing better than spending a weekend or week at our lake cottage with my Sweetie, reading books, taking snoozes, eating wonderful food, having a glass of wine, listening to the loons call at night, building a fire, hearing the wind through the trees, working in the yard, talking with folks in the nearby small town, etc., etc. That is living.
ETA: I see the book is free online. So, no book for me "to get"!!
[ 15 August 2007: Message edited by: Sven ]
Wed, 2007-08-15 08:53
#14
Even if this were true, does it matter ?
Wed, 2007-08-15 08:59
#15
Not really. In fact it would only cause a lot of problems (especially with Extreme religious sects [I'm lookin' at you United church!]).
And on top of that, if we knew we were in a simulation, we still have no way of getting out, and if we could get out it might be far worse of a universe than the one we've got.
Sven's got the right idea, some vino, a book, some good company. That's really what living is about (not to mention equality and justice and all the good things rabble stands for).
Wed, 2007-08-15 09:00
#16
quote:
Originally posted by Sven:
[b]You know, I never thought that I would call myself a Luddite (I enjoy technology) but I’m with you on this one. For me, there’s nothing better than spending a weekend or week at our lake cottage with my Sweetie, reading books, taking snoozes, eating wonderful food, having a glass of wine, listening to the loons call at night, building a fire, hearing the wind through the trees, working in the yard, talking with folks in the nearby small town, etc., etc. That is living.
[/b]
Like all major techonological shifts, I suspect it will be a generational thing. I might not plug into a virtual world or three to live my life, but my kid may well do so. And why not, if one can live without scarcity?
Charles Stross is an excellent writer - that was a really good book. Most of the ideas come from Kurzweil, incidentally - Stross fictionalizes what Kurzweil popularized. Both are very worth the read.
Wed, 2007-08-15 11:53
#17
Sven
quote:
Originally posted by arborman:
[b]Like all major techonological shifts, I suspect it will be a generational thing. I might not plug into a virtual world or three to live my life, but my kid may well do so. And why not, if one can live without scarcity? [/b]
Perhaps you're right (sigh). Not only am I a Luddite but an old fuddy-duddy to boot!
Wed, 2007-08-15 12:12
#18
I like what ifs. And I know some of you have read this before. But what if a select group within the Republican cabal(and apparently international groups as well) possess knowledge of extra-terrestrial technology which could replace the need for fossil fuels and green-house gas producing practices in general ?. It could explain their crazy-irrational behaviour today to some extent. [url=http://www.disclosureproject.org/cosmicdeception.htm]According to Steven Greer[/url], it's all about maintaining status quo and existing power structures, which we pretty well already agree is true anyway. But what about the credibility of some of Greer's eye witnesses ?. Apparently former Canadian government minister Paul Hellyer is among them.
Wed, 2007-08-15 15:52
#19
[url=http://www.davidicke.com/index.php/]Someone is starting to sound a little like this dude...[/url]
I'm kidding Fidel, I know you're not crazy like this.
I've got a very conspiratorial friend who is according to common belief 'way out there' who is very sure that all of our media is tightly controlled (including things we tend to like a lot like [url=http://www.rabble.ca/babble/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic&f=13&t=003112]t... or [url=http://p://www.rabble.ca/babble/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic&f=13&t=003118]this)[/url]. And that there is a small group of elite out there controlling society and how technology gets released.
Things like the internet, gps systems and other technological advances could really be years and years behind what the government elite are controlling and keeping from us.
But then...that's crazy right?? RIGHT??
Wed, 2007-08-15 22:05
#20
quote:
Originally posted by quelar:
[b]Things like the internet, gps systems and other technological advances could really be years and years behind what the government elite are controlling and keeping from us.[/b]
We know that much is true already. GPS is basically a spinoff of old technology. Sputnik is 1950's, and the Soviets were developing their own type of GPS in the mid 70's. See [url=http://www.sptimes.ru/index.php?action_id=2&story_id=21253]GLONASS[/url]. They didn't hand it off to private enterprise and a multi-billion dollar a year consumer market because there was none.
This is an interesting TED talk with [url=http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/view/id/39]Aubrey de Grey[/url]. ADG talks about solving human longevity and using an engineering approach. Mice have an average life span of two years, but scientists have the ability now to intervene at the two year mark and extend the span by two more years and with vitality. De Grey predicts that once the secret to robust mice is discovered, so-called first generation medicine to double our life spans should follow along by about 10 or 15 years. And the first 1000 year-old might only be 10 years younger than the first 150 year-olds. It's mind-boggling to think that this isn't coming from a science fiction writer. Mind you, de Grey isn't optimistic about the concerted effort required. From that TED speech I get the sense he and others think there is too much profit motive being introduced to pure and applied scientific research and diverting scientific efforts toward commercial r&d. And real science should know no bounds.