A Question About Feminism
Thu, 2007-08-16 11:24
#1
A Question About Feminism
Thu, 2007-08-16 11:24
#2
I am going to cite a few quotes, and I am just wondering if these views represent the majority of the feminist viewpoint, or simply reflect the views of a radical fringe.
"As long as some men use physical force to subjugate females, all men need not. The knowledge that some men do suffices to threaten all women. He can beat or kill the woman he claims to love; he can rape women...he can sexually molest his daughters... THE VAST MAJORITY OF MEN IN THE WORLD DO ONE OR MORE OF THE ABOVE." Marilyn French (her emphasis)
"The institution of sexual intercourse is anti-feminist". Ti-Grace Atkinson, Amazon Odyssey (p. 86).
"All sex, even consensual sex between a married couple, is an act of violence perpetrated against a woman." Catherine MacKinnon
"I believe that women have a capacity for understanding and compassion which a man structurally does not have, does not have it because he cannot have it. He's just incapable of it." -- Former Congresswoman Barbara Jordan
"All men are rapists and that's all they are" -- Marilyn French Author, "The Women's Room"
"The end of the institution of marriage is a necessary condition for the liberation of women. Therefore it is important for us to encourage women to leave their husbands..." -Declaration of Feminism
"The simple fact is that every woman must be willing to be identified as a lesbian to be fully feminist." -U.S. National organization for Women Times.
"I feel that 'man-hating' is an honorable and viable political act, that the oppressed have a right to class-hatred against the class that is oppressing them." -- Robin Morgan, MS. Magazine Editor
"I claim that rape exists any time sexual intercourse occurs when it has not been initiated by the woman, out of her own genuine affection and desire." -- Robin Morgan
"Heterosexual intercourse is the pure, formalized expression of contempt for women's bodies." -- Andrea Dworkin
Please feel free to debate, interpret and precis the quotes. All replies will be greatly appreciated.
Thu, 2007-08-16 12:02
#3
quote:
Originally posted by Fearghail:
[b]All replies will be greatly appreciated.[/b]
Ok, then: You are being infantile. And I don't mean that in a nice way.
Thu, 2007-08-16 12:06
#4
Sven
quote:
Originally posted by unionist:
[b]Ok, then: You are being infantile. And I don't mean that in a nice way.[/b]
I take it that you mean that in a [i]naughty[/i] way? [img]wink.gif" border="0[/img]
Thu, 2007-08-16 12:12
#5
Moving up on the scale. That's a 9 out of 10 Plonk for this one.
Again, STEP AWAY FROM YOUR KEYBOARD, PLEASE!
Thu, 2007-08-16 12:14
#6
[img]http://z.about.com/d/childrensbooks/1/0/E/9/aasantascoming.jpg" width="150[/img]
Thu, 2007-08-16 12:35
#7
Catchfire
Hey! You forgot a perennial favourite of the lunatic feminist fringe (TM). By Luce Irigaray:
quote:
Is e=mc2 a sexed equation? Perhaps it is. Let us make the hypothesis that it is insofar as it privileges the speed of light over other speeds that are vitally necessary to us. What seems to me to indicate the possible sexed nature of the equation is not directly its uses by nuclear weapons, rather it is having privileged what goes the fastest.
Wow! Aren't those feminazis positively nutso?
Thu, 2007-08-16 12:39
#8
Actually, Sir, I am quite serious. And I dont think it is an unreasonable question? These are quotes I have read....I do not know much about this. I live in the sticks. I don't have a feminist group or an anything group nearby, so I do not know what the generally accepted ideas are. Are these quotes generally accepted as truth by the feminist movement? Or is this a radical fringe? And yes, any replies would be greatly appreciated.
Since this site has a feminist corner then I am sure someone would know. If I wanted to know about what Islam says about Jihad I would not ask Guy Lafleur. I would ask someone who is in the know, someone who actually attends the mosque and deals in Islamic apologetics.
Before I decide to give my support for something I want to understand what it is I am supporting. If I ask and they treat me like an idiot for asking, it is a pretty indication that I should not support.
So, I reiterate, do these quotes reflect your views? Are they taken out of context?
[ 16 August 2007: Message edited by: Fearghail ]
Thu, 2007-08-16 12:44
#9
quote:
Originally posted by Fearghail:
[b]Actually, Sir, I am quite serious. And I dont think it is an unreasonable question? These are quotes I have read....I do not know much about this. I live in the sticks. I don't have a feminist group or an anything group nearby, so I do not know what the generally accepted ideas are. Are these quotes generally accepted as truth by the feminist movement? Or is this a radical fringe? And yes, any replies would be greatly appreciated.Since this site has a feminist corner then I am sure someone would know. If I wanted to know about what Islam says about Jihad I would not ask Guy Lafleur. I would ask someone who is in the know, someone who actually attends the mosque and deals in Islamic apologetics.
So, I reiterate, do these quotes reflect your views?[/b]
I generally take people at face value.
Within any large movement which writes a lot of material, and feminist is one such movement, there will be some quotes which can be taken out of context, be controversial, or just be plain nasty. I have a very introductory knowledge of feminism. It may be a specific label in the media but it's in fact a very diverse movement with a lot of internal debates. If you're interested, you could start from the wikipedia page and follow the links and sources of the paragraphs you find more interesting.
Thu, 2007-08-16 12:50
#10
Catchfire
quote:
Are they taken out of context?
Do you see anything in your OP that might contextualize them? Looks like a bunch of random quotes to me. How many of those works have you read?
Thu, 2007-08-16 12:54
#11
Ah, so it is reasonable to assume that these are fringer statements.
Yes, I realize this. In any large group (which contains many sub-groups) the individual members cannot control what the is said by everyone. And of course some feminists could very well be down right nasty, while perhaps the majority is not.
Does there exist any inter-feminist fighting...you know where perhaps the harsher groups might call the milder ones not feminist enough or even misogynists?
One time a woman told me that if I were to disagree with a feminist this made me a mysogynist. I wonder is that a prevalent attitude. I mean, since it is possible (and also probable) that humans are wrong once in a while, and feminists being humans must also likely be wrong in some cases, is it then mysogyny to disagree with a feminist policy or some agenda they wish to implement. Does the disagreement with the group as a whole automatically imply that the dissenter must be a mysoginist?
All replies are greatly appreciated.
And thank you kindly 500 Apples, I think you are the first person here to treat me seriously. [img]smile.gif" border="0[/img]
Thu, 2007-08-16 12:58
#12
Or perhaps lets rephrase the question
Where a right winger might use the label terrorist lover, or commie, anti-American to those who don't share his view of what a patriot should be......is it also possible that the groups which claim to represent freedom and justice and equality can also play the same type of card. Do you think this ever occurs?
Is someone automatically racist if he has an argument with the NAACP over a particular issue? Can the term "bigot" ever be used by some people within certain groups to belittle valid dissent, the same way a right-winger might use the term "terrorist coddler".
Would argument not be that much more stimulating if the right wing could stop screaming "anti-American" at the first point of disagreement, and if the left could stop saying "bigot bigot"?
[ 16 August 2007: Message edited by: Fearghail ]
Thu, 2007-08-16 13:01
#13
quote:
Originally posted by Fearghail:
[b]Where a right winger might use the label terrorist lover, or commie, anti-American to those who don't share his view of what a patriot should be......is it also possible that the groups which claim to represent freedom and justice and equality can also play the same type of card. Do you think this ever occurs?[/b]
No.
quote:
[b]Is someone automatically racist if he has an argument with the NAACP over a particular issue?[/b]
Yes.
quote:
[b]Can the term "bigot" ever be used by some people within certain groups to belittle valid dissent, the same way a right-winger might use the term "terrorist coddler".[/b]
No, of course not.
Thu, 2007-08-16 13:04
#14
Yawn.