That sounds like an excuse for not trying to change things.
Where are the men?
Tue, 2007-09-18 03:46
#52
Tue, 2007-09-18 04:13
#53
quote:
Originally posted by Martha (but not Stewart):
[b]Any evidence for this claim?[/b]
Nothing scientific, but it happened to me. When I was the main wage-earner.
Tue, 2007-09-18 05:35
#54
quote:
That sounds like an excuse for not trying to change things.
It is an excuse but it's a valid excuse. More women with the means and the time need to get involved. More young women need to get involved. When a woman is raising children on her own without help, it is very difficult. I know from experience, you are on your feet first thing in the morning and to bed late. I don't think I had a good night's sleep for about 5 years and that was just when they were little, when they became teenagers.....a whole other story, I chased my kids down when they didn't come home on time, I kept them busy so they wouldn't get into drugs etc. It's hard work. So please take my apologies from all the single moms out there, we are really sorry that we don't help the cause more. We wish we could because we are the ones that would benefit the most but with kids? Where do you find the time?
Tue, 2007-09-18 07:45
#55
1 - 7, excellent, and true, post. Clersal, is it that hard for you to understand how hard it is to be a single parent, in particular one with limited resources? How was anything in 1 - 7's post an "excuse". She posted up obstacles, not excuses. You try living alone and raising kids without a handsome alimony or support payment (or any support at all) from the father. Then please do come back and tell us how fabulous you did.
Tue, 2007-09-18 09:50
#56
remind
quote:
Originally posted by kim2:
[b]"Another point of note is the distribution of income in two-parent households. Men often hog most of it (certainly almost all of the disposable income), leaving mothers and children in a form of poverty invisible to the household revenue focus of Statistics Canada (and to tut-tutting malestream journalists)."This isn't the case in the circles I travel in. Generally, in one income two parent families, the woman takes care of the finances.
Do you have a study to validate this claim?[/b]
Do you have any studies to validate your claim, or just the circles you travel in to support your perception?
As throughout my life and work I have found things to be pretty much as was stated by martin, and followed up with by Michelle's life example.
----------------------------------
Exactly 1-7, and it is not excuse clersal it is a statement of facts on the ground!
Tue, 2007-09-18 11:18
#57
"Do you have any studies to validate your claim, or just the circles you travel in to support your perception?"
I didn't state any fact or make any claim. Martin did make a claim as though it were fact.
Tue, 2007-09-18 13:08
#58
quote:
Originally posted by Stargazer:
[b]Clersal, is it that hard for you to understand how hard it is to be a single parent, in particular one with limited resources? How was anything in 1 - 7's post an "excuse". She posted up obstacles, not excuses. You try living alone and raising kids without a handsome alimony or support payment (or any support at all) from the father. Then please do come back and tell us how fabulous you did.[/b]
I was really referring to the original two parent family, I too had a husband that hogged the money.
At one point I thought of a plan that worked, sort of. I let the bills build up and then when there was a really nice fat pile I said okay you don't want to give me the money you do it.
It only semi worked as I had to continually use the, 'I just mailed it this morning theme.'
I did not do a fabulous job. My apologies as I know that single parents have a hell of a time.
Sorry 1 to 7.
Tue, 2007-09-18 13:11
#59
I'm sorry to you too. It seems you haven't had a very good time with it either.
Tue, 2007-09-18 13:22
#60
I accept your appology and I understand clersal. We do have many groups of women who are trying to make changes. However, until we get more female representation in the places of power, we are going to continue to be at the bottom, always worrying and trying to make ends meet.
There's an election going on here and I am voting for a woman. She's smart, she's a feminist, and she has done alot for women in trades up here. She got in the last time and I am sure she'll get in this time!
off topic:
I watched the Emmy's and when Sally Field said "if women ran things, there would be no goddamn war" and I couldn't help but think that so many other things would be better too.
Tue, 2007-09-18 14:00
#61
remind
Oh dear clersal, I can see the train of thought now you have clarified, my apologies.
Though this is not a problem in my family construct, I ended a long time friendship because of my friend's allowing her husband to utilize all the disposable income and was keeping her short of money on which to raise their children.
As an air line pilot he makes very good money, only he kept ALL. She did not have access to any of it, though they had 4 children. He would come home about every 2 weeks, and kept a separate apartment in Van, to which she did not have the phone number for even, and buy what he felt were the needed groceries for the next 2 weeks. All the kids clothes were supposed to be purchased from their child tax credits, which was not geared to income at the time, and the rest were supposed to be received for presents at birthdays and Christmas.
He left her with no emergency money, as that too was supposed to be derived from the child tax credits. She did not have a drivers license and tried to use public transportation, an impossible act seeing as how they were all under 5.
As such, it seemed to always fall upon my partner and I to give her rides, loan her money, and take care of emergencies. Finally, I realized I was enabling him, and indeed her, to keep on in this unequal and unfair manner.
After I ended the friendship, about 2 years later I ran into her shopping, because of my withdrawn support, she was forced to make changes. She had gotten her drivers license, and made him give her 1/2 of each paycheck, after the bills were paid and the kids stuff taken care off. And what was interesting, she thanked me forwithdrawing my support and friendship.
[ 18 September 2007: Message edited by: remind ]
Tue, 2007-09-18 15:47
#62
quote:
Originally posted by Stargazer:
[b]I'm sorry to you too. It seems you haven't had a very good time with it either.[/b]
I really did have a very good life, not the husband part, who is now ex but I do have two wonderful children and am a granmaw. I am so happy that I can ship them home when they start being a pain.
[img]biggrin.gif" border="0[/img]
Knowing what I do now I would not marry the type of person I do although I do realize that kind of person does appeal to me.
I guess we are attracted to what is familiar. I bit of a downer.
Wed, 2007-09-19 11:20
#63
A suggestion regarding money in marriage. I had a friend who argued constantly with his spouse about who was spending how much on what, etc. And they devised a great strategy for dealing with this. They set up three bank accounts: one joint account, and one "personal discretionary" account for each spouse. All income goes into the joint account, and [i]exactly the same amount[/i] gets extracted from the joint account each month and put into each spouse's discretionary account. Each spouse has a veto on spending from the joint account (which goes to the mortgage, big ticket items such as a new fridge or a vacation) and each spouse has 100% discretion over her/his own discretionary account. There's still some room for argument (e.g. how much to spend on that new fridge); but, in my friend's case, it totally eliminated all the fighting.
Wed, 2007-09-19 13:10
#64
I tried the joint account bit and he emptied it when I proudly told him how much money we had saved.
Gawd I was naive!
Fri, 2007-09-21 14:53
#65
quote:
Originally posted by clersal:
[b]I tried the joint account bit and he emptied it when I proudly told him how much money we had saved.Gawd I was naive![/b]
It is possible to set up accounts that require both signatures for any withdrawals or cheques. That said, insisting on the creation of one walks that fine, razor thin line between trust/conflict/respect which can be extremely difficult in a relationship of any kind. And I'd suspect it can be impossible or even dangerous in an unhealthy relationship.
Fri, 2007-09-21 18:53
#66
quote:
Originally posted by arborman:
[b]It is possible to set up accounts that require both signatures for any withdrawals or cheques. [/b]
I don't know. Divorce sounds like a better solution to that problem to me! [img]wink.gif" border="0[/img]
Fri, 2007-09-21 18:54
#67
The problem was resolved and he is now living with another, I hope not naive lady!
Fri, 2007-09-21 18:55
#68
Good solution!
Fri, 2007-09-21 20:48
#69
One resource is sites such as [url=http://www.dont-date-this-guy.com/]www.dont-date-this-guy.com/[/url] and [url=http://www.dontdatehimgirl.com/search/]www.dontdatehimgirl.com/search/[/...
But, as always, the onus is put on women when men are the culprits.
[url=http://www.dontdatehimgirl.com/search/]Don't Date Him Girl website[/url]
Sun, 2007-09-23 16:41
#70
I have just finished reading the book [url=http://www.wise-bc.org]Policies of Exclusion, Poverty & Health[/url], which I cannot recommend enough about these issues. "Stories from the Front" compiled and presented in 2005 by Chrystal Ocean.
WISE is the acronym for the Victoria-based organization Wellbeing through Inclusion Socially & Economically.
[ 23 September 2007: Message edited by: martin dufresne ]
Sun, 2007-09-23 22:00
#71
Naci_Sey
Martin, thank you so much for that endorsement.
It's been a real struggle getting the word out about WISE's book, not least because we're a group of low-income women. Isolation, our own poor health, disconnection from key networks, the fact that none of us have money personally to contribute to advertising have been among the additional barriers.
Plus there have been some - particularly governments, bureaucrats, academics and health professionals (think 'vested interests') - who haven't wanted our book known. Perhaps they've had good reason not to want people to read it. In telling our stories, we pulled no punches. The reality painted in the book is an indictment on a broad scale.
[ 23 September 2007: Message edited by: Naci_Sey ]
Wed, 2007-09-26 00:15
#72
It may interest you to know that the Front commun des personnes assistйes sociales du Quйbec, a Quebec City-based welfare recipients coalition, published a similar book in March 2007 entitled [url=http://www.fcpasq.qc.ca/]Femmes assistйes sociales: la parole est а nous![/url]. It too seems to be having problems being taken into account as bearing witness to many women's experiences, e.g. harassment by welfare investigators and children's aid societies, survival prostitution. (You can find an order form on the above website.)
[ 26 September 2007: Message edited by: martin dufresne ]