The Rich get Richer

Which brings us back to the original request to see the plan...

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Originally posted by oldgoat:
That is the fate of so many revolutions.

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I've quoted John Lennon. If I have to haul out Pete Townsend, I will. [img]tongue.gif" border="0[/img]

Excelent. Now go read Bloch.

Because you see, its about historical process, and how one applies you ideals to your process, not some set function, applicapble to all situations universally. It is easy enough to draw up formula to describe those processes as they are observed, but ridiculous to invent formula to described unobserved ones.

Your "proof" has no value, because you just agreed that no one could tell you "what will happen, or why it would be better," when discussing capitalism in 1750.

[ 03 October 2007: Message edited by: Cueball ]

This has nothing to do with your previous rhetorical demand for a "plan," which could be specifically detailed. The force of your question was entirely predicated on demanding an answer which would be unavailable, for the sake of winning the "point".

That was no more than cheap debating rhetoric, which makes me doubt the sincerity of your interest, because you knew, or should have known, that no such "plan" is possible.

[ 03 October 2007: Message edited by: Cueball ]

Better idea than what?

Well you'd like Bloch then. He starts one of his books (Freiheit und Ordnung?) :

"I am. You are. We are. Now let us begin."

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Originally posted by oldgoat:
[b][url=http://www.rabble.ca/columnists_full.shtml?x=62905]Also, a relevant article by Linda McQuaig.[/url] Not that she's not always relevant anyway.[/b]

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In the last few decades, the balance has shifted sharply in favour of employers. Governments, under pressure from the corporate world and its academic and media supporters, have slashed social programs and taxes —and utterly failed to defend collective bargaining and other labour rights.

Indeed, one indication of this anti-worker shift is the way minimum wages—a government intervention that favours workers—have been allowed to decline in value. [b](In 1976, Ontario's minimum wage was worth the equivalent today of $9.97.)[/b]

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It's busted, Jim. We need a revolution.

[ 03 October 2007: Message edited by: Fidel ]

[url=http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=32&ItemID=14001]A Peep into Richistan. [/url]

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... the present day rich, unlike the old rich, have set up their own virtual country, which is wealthier than most countries of the world. “By 2004, the richest 1 per cent of Americans were earning about $1.35 trillion a year—greater than the total national incomes of France, Italy or Canada.” The residents of this virtual country have built “a self-contained world unto themselves, complete with their own health-care system (concierge doctors), travel network (Net Jets, destination clubs), separate economy (double-digit income gains and double-digit inflation), and language….” The rich are getting richer by every passing year and they have their own country, society, economy and culture.

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Wait, there's more, and this confirms the recent quote by Professor Gordon that the rich are "working" more:

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It is no longer an idle class for the Richistanis are too young to retire and too concerned with keeping up with their peers. ... Richistanis are younger than the rich of the past, and far more likely to be working or running their own businesses. They climbed their way up from the middle class and continue to define themselves by their 18-hour days and outsized productivity.” Further, “For Richistanis, work has become their play, and play has become their work. Yachts and jets are now loaded with communications gear to allow the rich to keep working even if they’re floating in the Mediterranean or soaring above the Atlantic.” Laptops are their constant companions.

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Finally,

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The emergence and the growing prosperity of Richistan have been making the American society more and more unequal. Median incomes for American households have been falling. “By almost any measure, America is becoming a more unequal society. The richest 1 percent of Americans control more than 33 per cent of the total wealth, and their wealth is now greater than the bottom 90 percent of Americans. The share of national income held by the top 1 percent of earners is now the highest since World War II.” While the Richistanis enjoy tax reductions granted by the Bush administration and spend on luxuries, public health, education, roads, bridges and environment are not properly cared for because of the lack of resources at the disposal of the government.

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[ 10 October 2007: Message edited by: N.Beltov ]

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Originally posted by Cueball:
[b]Who planned capitalism Stephen?[/b]

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I think it was Friedrich von Hayek who planned this end stage of it. And the results lie at the end of this road to guaranteed serfdom if we continue polluting and stripping our resources like there's no tomorrow. Tomorrow has been shown to arrive on time like clockwork.

Keynesians have made a comeback since the neoLiberal onslaught of the 1970's-80s, yes. NeoLiberalism's big business and banking proponents are still the ever patient salivating jackals waiting in the wings for our weak and corrupt politicos to hack off pieces of the common good and tossed their way. Ontarians have just handed McGuilty 100 percent of the power with 42 percent of the vote, and so they will pretty much do anything they want to without any political opposition. There is nothing stopping them now except possible protests and grassroots awareness campaigns to expose their hidden political agenda. Dalton McGuilty's Liberals have governed much more like Herbert Hooverites than Keynesians since 2003. Dalton "pSycHo" McGuilty is the illegitimate test tube child of Herbie Hoover and Freddy "fingers" von Hayek's dead mother's DNA scrounged from a European graveyard five after midnight, Oct 31st, about nine months before he was hatched.

[ 12 October 2007: Message edited by: Fidel ]

Yes, I agree. Many social democrats, and I am a supporter most days when not an anarcho-Marxist, believe that the economy and financial system should be fully democratized. I think our system is somewhere around 25-45% partial legitimate democracy as it stands now. Karl Polanyi suggested that the U.S. constitution is revered around the world by all political stripes. Polanyi suggested that in order democratize the economy, such an important part of our political economy should be harnessed by similar executive, legislative and judicial levels of democratic decision making. Combine this with real electoral reform for full representation and we would have the most advanced democracy in world history.

[ 12 October 2007: Message edited by: Fidel ]

Yes, Polanyi was one of the socialists who talked about market socialism and drew on Marxist ideas for much of his work. I think any system would work if the right people were to make it work. I think fascists and capitalists alike prefer the free market system to reward their efforts.

I think the biggest problem with any system is corruption. No country is immune to corruption, but I think foreign and otherwise investor confidence in places like Scandinavia and even Singapore is supposed to be quite good for those countries. When you get two autocratic political parties in power and sharing power for more than 100 years in Canada, the results are decay and rot and no chance in hell to make the top ten list of most competitive economies. Our dated electoral system is very uncompetitive.

Canada is a good country for rich Americans to invest in energy and mining stocks. Rich Americans love to take majority ownership in Canada's crown corporations and valuable natural resources and other assets, but they hate like hell investing in things like research and development or paying taxes here. So they ship profits made on our natural reources and energy exports out of the country to offshore tax havens. Canada is a lot like a colony with absentee corporate landlords. And crooked politicians in Canada's two old line parties like to take money and gifts for selling our country out from under our feet.

[ 12 October 2007: Message edited by: Fidel ]