RCMP murder an inocent man with a Taser

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Mon, 2007-10-22 11:37

Maritimesea

quote:

Originally posted by kropotkin1951:
[b]I think we must be talking about different stories. In the story I am referring to the person attacked a police officer with a chain and did in fact injure him seriously. However the obscene part of the story was that when he was gunned down in the streets was no longer threateneing the officer that he had injured.He had already walked away.
The arriving police officers saw the mentally ill person and the severely injured officer and in a split second decided to convict, sentence and execute this man for attacking a fellow police officer. This in a hail of bullets fired as the person was walking away from the scene.
That should not be the role of the police officer and they should be charged with negligence causing death.[/b]

Oh, well if that was the case then of course that was an execution of an unarmed person. I am unfamiliar with the case and from your original post referring to the story I got the impression the cop and the guy were locked in battle and the guy had the "upper hand".

Mon, 2007-10-22 12:23

#53

Polly B

quote:

Originally posted by kropotkin1951:
[b]I think we must be talking about different stories. In the story I am referring to the person attacked a police officer with a chain and did in fact injure him seriously. However the obscene part of the story was that when he was gunned down in the streets was no longer threateneing the officer that he had injured.He had already walked away.
[/b]

So you are not talking about Ian Bush then? The young man from BC who was somehow shot in the back of the head while he had the cop in a headlock?

Tue, 2007-10-23 06:28

#54

N.Beltov

[url=http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2007/10/23/bc-taser.html... father says he is latest victim of police Taser[/url]

quote:

"Tasering someone when they're down in handcuffs is wrong," said Hawkins' wife Tira, who also spoke to CBC.

Tue, 2007-10-23 06:41

#55

Michelle

I see he's going to file a complaint. Good luck with that. The complaints system always backs crooked and abusive cops. After all, you're just filing the complaint with the police.

[ 23 October 2007: Message edited by: Michelle ]

Tue, 2007-10-23 06:52

#56

N.Beltov

The police being in charge of investigating complaints against the police is a very serious and common problem right across this country. It puts the whole legal system in disrepute and subverts Canadian democracy.

The solution is obvious. We need civilian overview of investigations of police misconduct in this country.

Tue, 2007-10-23 09:17

#57

kropotkin1951

quote:

Originally posted by Maritimesea:
[b]
Oh, well if that was the case then of course that was an execution of an unarmed person. I am unfamiliar with the case and from your original post referring to the story I got the impression the cop and the guy were locked in battle and the guy had the "upper hand".[/b]

Sorry there have been numerous deathds at the hands of our police over the last couple of months. I am having a hard time keeping up. The Ian Bush was an example of the polcie using deadly force on a drunk teenager who was already in custody. The other is an incident in the streets of Vancouver were an officer was severely injured and he was gunned down.

In the Ian Bush case their were no witnesses and I just don't believe the officer's life was in danger and in the other case their were eyewitnesses a whole bus load of them.

Tue, 2007-10-23 09:21

#58

kropotkin1951

quote:

Originally posted by N.Beltov:
[b][url=http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2007/10/23/bc-taser.html... father says he is latest victim of police Taser[/url]
[/b]

Everytime you hear of this you get the police talking heads explaining how this is instead of lethal force. I hope this fellow sues the police and police officers since clearly this was not a situation were lethal force would have even been contemplated. Unfortunately my guess is he will sue and they will pay him hush money to go away and that will be the end of the story.

Tue, 2007-10-23 09:43

#59

Pogo

quote:

Originally posted by kropotkin1951:
[b]
In the Ian Bush case their were no witnesses and I just don't believe the officer's life was in danger and in the other case their were eyewitnesses a whole bus load of them.[/b]

Was it the fact his story was physically impossible?

Tue, 2007-10-23 11:28

#60

Polly B

quote:

Originally posted by kropotkin1951:
[b]In the Ian Bush case their were no witnesses and I just don't believe the officer's life was in danger...[/b]

Apparently, a 22 year old with no past history of violence, who had been arrested for "having an open beer" suddenly turned into a cop killer, and while intoxicated, over-powered a larger police constable and began to choke him "from behind". The officer, instead of trying to remove his hands from his throat managed to grab his pistol and shoot Ian Bush in the back of the head. The cop then claims that he "doesn't recall pulling the trigger". For some reason, the tape recorder in the jail is turned off on just that particular night, the cop who did the shooting is unavailable any time soon for questioning, the body is moved at least once, and the cop who pulled the trigger is such a rookie that he wasn't even supposed to be left alone with a prisoner.

And no charges were laid against the shooter.

Oops, thread drift.

Tue, 2007-10-23 11:33

#61

Buddy Kat

quote:

Originally posted by Pogo:
[b]
Was it the fact his story was physically impossible?[/b]

They did bring in expert forensic people that did prove it was physically impossible , but you see that only works when it's the other way around.

This is murder Canadian style...it's ok for government goons to kill , and cover it up and basically do what ever they want. It's not ok for you. This how they intimidate and control the society we live in. This is how they maintain law and order in our country.

Fri, 2007-10-26 21:01

#62

aka Mycroft

This is the saddest story I've read in a while:

[url=http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20071025.wtaser1026/B... hang over taser death[/url]

quote:

Dazed and confused after more than 15 hours of travel, unable to communicate in English and scared because he couldn't find his mother, Polish immigrant Robert Dziekanski was jolted by a taser just 24 seconds after being confronted by police in Vancouver International Airport.
That allegation was made Thursday by a lawyer for Mr. Dziekanski's family who says video evidence will show that the RCMP took him down with a taser jolt moments after approaching him.
"I've been in touch with witnesses. I have viewed a video, which was taken by a bystander, which is not going to be released until at least the time of the inquest. From my observation, the interaction between the police and this individual, who didn't appear to me to be posing a danger to anybody at the time … was 24 seconds, roughly, before he was tasered," Walter Kosteckyj said, adding the airport surveillance videos also won't likely be released until an inquest is held.

quote:

Mr. Kosteckyj described how a journey to a new life devolved into a nightmarish scenario, in which Mr. Dziekanski was left wandering helpless and alone in a busy airport while his mother, Zofia Cisowski, was searching for him nearby.
The waiting mother and increasingly frantic son were separated by glass walls and what appears to be impenetrable airport bureaucracy that somehow failed to help them connect.
"Unbelievably, these people were probably no more than 150 to 200 feet apart for at least five hours, and she was unable to get any message to him. And no one on the other side [of the glass walls] thought to interview him or come outside or vice versa," Mr. Kosteckyj said.
He said he could not explain why no one was able to come to the assistance of Mr. Dziekanski in an airport that handles 17 million visitors a year.
"For all the high-tech stuff they have at the airport, and all the security they have, somehow a guy can sit or be in that baggage area, that immigration area, for a period of nine hours … without anyone really taking much notice of him — as unbelievable as that sounds," Mr. Kosteckyj said.
He said Mr. Dziekanski's journey to Canada began in Poland about 3 a.m., when he left his home town of Pieszyce to get to an airport for his first airplane flight. The 40-year-old construction worker, who had never left Poland before, was immigrating to Canada to join his mother, 61, who lives in Kamloops, about a five-hour drive from Vancouver.
They had arranged to meet at the baggage carousel in the international terminal at YVR. What neither of them seemed to know, however, was that the baggage area is inside a secure area just past Canada Customs and Immigration. There is no line of sight into the Arrivals Hall from the public waiting area, except for a short distance through sliding glass doors.

quote:

For nearly 10 hours, Mr. Dziekanski stayed in the Arrivals Hall, growing increasingly frustrated and eventually becoming frantic.
Outside, in the public area, his mother spent nearly six hours pacing the corridors and, in broken English, asking airport officials for help in locating her son.
Mr. Kosteckyj said she visited one booth in international arrivals "at least three to four times and conveyed to them that she was concerned about her son being in the area and she wanted to get a message to him and how could she do that? They wrote her name down and said that they would make inquiries."
At about 10 p.m., she was told he wasn't there. She made the long drive home, only to find a phone message waiting, saying her son had been found.
"She called back to immigration when she got in, which would have been around 2 a.m., and spoke to someone there and was advised that her son was somewhere in the area and was fine. And she advised, you know, 'Please take care of him because he can't speak English and I'll get there as soon as I can.' And of course he had died, been killed really, some time on or about 1 or 1:30," Mr. Kosteckyj said.
At a news conference, Ms. Cisowski said she had dreamed of opening a small business in Kamloops with her son. "I've lost my only family," she said. "I studied English during the day and at night I saved money to get my son to Canada."
Mr. Dziekanski arrived with three bags, two of which were filled with geography books.

Fri, 2007-10-26 21:04

#63

aka Mycroft

[url=http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=4c66cd2c-d01f-4e9a... of man killed by Taser frustrated and furious[/url]

quote:

Maria Cisowski could not contain her grief or her anger when she spoke to the media Thursday about the death of her 40-year-old son at the Vancouver International Airport on Oct. 14.
With her lawyer Walter Kosteckyj at her side, the distraught 61-year-old woman said she doesn't understand why no one at the airport was available to help her son, Robert Dziekanski, who died minutes after being Tasered by police, nearly 10 hours after he arrived as a hopeful immigrant from Poland.
"This is the most difficult time of my life," she sobbed quietly.
"I had been waiting for seven years for him. I had been saving for seven years."
She fell silent for a moment, her eyes falling on his picture in front of her at the news conference in Vancouver's Polish Hall.
"Now I lost my son. I loved him so much," she said.

Fri, 2007-10-26 22:50

#64

BetterRed

Well, this story seems to snooze in our media, Jolly good show I say
he was just a low-status immigrant, and he was not a minority. So no noise would be made about this dumbfuckerry

Move along folks....
Must be a Britney story somewhere in the news [img]rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img]

Sat, 2007-10-27 10:56

#65

Polly B

quote:

Test results show Robert Dziekanski had no drugs or alcohol in his system when he died minutes after police subdued him with a Taser on Oct. 13, his family's lawyer said Friday.

Hmmm, so he's not an addict, not a smuggler, not a terrorist....what else can they try and hang on him?

[url=http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2007/10/26/bc-tasernodru...

Thu, 2007-11-15 06:38

#66

Buddy Kat

At least the video is out now and Canadians can see their police force in action.Kudos to the guy who took the video and released it (9pm est)after the neocon media outlets did there 6pm spin without seeing it.

Judging from the response on the cbc website..many Canadians aren't fooled by the government or rcmp in this one. One gets the same feeling in the gut from watching the video as if watching a terror video..it's all there. The torture..the screaming and pleading and finally the cruel execution.

What's really disturbing is all the lies thru out the whole affair from the rcmp..they litterly lied like common criminals. One has to wonder about all other deaths related to them and the strong possibility they lied about them too. As the only reason they have been caught is because they were video taped.

I guess in Canada we don't have "terror cells " we have "terror detachments"...Whats the differance?

Thu, 2007-11-15 06:50

#67

bliter

As a citizen, I know I should. I really should, but I don't have the stomach. Snuff films just turn me off.

Thu, 2007-11-15 06:51

#68

jester

Hmmm...the Youtube video gives new meaning to "world-famous RCMP" Infamous is more suitable.

The latest RCMP killing will be whitewashed by the force but the international black-eye will be worn by all Canadians long after the cops have shrugged off the third nasty incident in BC in 2 years involving deadly overuse of force.

Its becoming harder to rationalise the huge RCMP funerals for one of their own when they don't give a shit about anyone elses' lives.

Thu, 2007-11-15 07:42

#69

farnival

quote:

Originally posted by jester:
[b]
...Its becoming harder to rationalise the huge RCMP funerals for one of their own when they don't give a shit about anyone elses' lives.[/b]

i was thinking the very same thing when i heard the attendance figures of something like 3500 officers/brass travelling to the funeral of the young mountie shot up north.

do you think Robert Dziekansk will get the same honour? he wasn't a criminal in any way. just a distraught traveller.

[url=http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/index_e.htm]Safe Homes, Safe Communities[/url]

i guess that doesn't include airports.

Thu, 2007-11-15 07:45

#70

Frustrated Mess Frustrated Mess's picture

This isn't an RCMP issue alone but a police issue. The cops know there is a new permissiveness towards police violence and they are using force indiscriminately. There is no accountability and no matter how outrageous the incident, police forces always back the cops - even the psychopaths.

Thu, 2007-11-15 09:02

#71

arborman

That video is of a summary execution.

It is also of a routine procedure - zapping people - that sometimes becomes fatal.

The casual nature of their crime suggests that they zap people constantly. They didn't think about it before doing it, it wasn't a difficult choice. It was just the way that they take people down, and I have no doubt that it is the way RCMP officers take people down all the time.

Of course, most of those other people don't die, they just get electrocuted and otherwise brutalized. And it is easy enough to paint them with the 'potentially dangerous' label if they get uppity.

And most of those other people are not zapped in front of a video camera. I have little doubt that if the guy who made the video had not made a stink, that recording would have vanished into the bowels of the 'investigation' forever.

Thu, 2007-11-15 11:16

#72

Toby Fourre

So, how do we make Stockwell Day wear this? His ministry looks after the security of that part of the airport. It seems to me that the behavior of police and border security has deteriorated badly since Day took over.

Thu, 2007-11-15 12:22

#73

Tommy_Paine

I just watched the video. When the officers entered the room, the man had his hands up.

The RCMP originally claimed that the man resisted.]

What other lies have they told us?

Words fail me.

Thu, 2007-11-15 12:50

#74

kropotkin1951

The RCMP lies and spins everything it does.

I heard an officer this morning saying that the video was not the only evidence and that only after the police and others testified about the incident would the "real" truth come out.

This is a fasciating assertion since all the literature about eye witnesses claim their testimony is highly unreliable. It highlights the fact that the RCMP spokespeople will spin anything.

Remember this RCMP assertion that eye witnesses are better than cameras the next time a law and order advocate demands more security cameras everywhere. Why do we need the cameras if the RCMP tells us they are not reliable evidence?

Spin that web!!

Thu, 2007-11-15 13:43

#75

thorin_bane

Remind me of traffic court when the Judge says "The officer has no reason to lie." Yes he does. His paycheck and the reputation of cops everywhere is on the line. We are moving(slowly before, but quicker now)towards a police state. No matter how much bad things come out about the cops, you can always count on them being upstanding individuals, and Don Cherry crying anytime something happens to them.

Thu, 2007-11-15 22:46

#76

Aristotleded24

quote:

Originally posted by Bacchus:
[b]If the officers statement of claim is correct, Ian got what he deserved[/b]

In regards to the Ian Bush incident, I have 2 major issues accepting the officer's explanation:

1) A trained police officer (especially in a confined space) should be able to manouver out of being strangled from behind. An elbow to the gut or twisting the guy's arm behind the shoulders can do wonders to relese someone's grip on your neck.

2) A trained police officer fearing for his or her life should know better to draw his or her weapon in close contact, due to the possibility of the weapon accidentally wounding or killing the officer.

Fri, 2007-11-16 04:07

#77

Stargazer

That is a powerful video. What we saw was a man getting killed by the police. For the entire time, no airport personnel thought to call a fucking translator? The video was long enough to see the cops came in and instead of handcuffing the man, which they clearly could have done, they decided to taser him. Did you see the red haired cop banging his billy club on the ground in front of that man's head? The man WAS NOT MOVING when he did that. He was not moving and they call this resisting arrest!!! I'm still crying. People who think cops aren't getting off on the power trip of their position are naive. That red-headed cop clearly needs to get out of the "profession". All of them should be charged with manslaughter. Yet Bill Blair says "get more tasers". Fucking murderous thugs.

Fri, 2007-11-16 04:55

#78

N.Beltov

At last!! Some police with a brain.

quote:

The Royal Newfoundland Constabulary has suspended its use of Tasers, following a fatal incident at Vancouver's airport. ....
"We think it would be prudent to wait for that review to see how we move forward."

Well, yea. If you're not sure whether some new tool [b]is killing people[/b], then it would be prudent, etc. It seems this sort of common sense is sadly lacking in far too many police forces, including the Mounties.

[url=http://www.cbc.ca/canada/newfoundland-labrador/story/2007/11/15/rnc-tase... Constabulary show some common sense.[/url]

Mind you, the Taser lobbyists and advocates aren't sitting still. There's a full court press with propagandists chattering away about "excited delirium", that condition that does not exist in any recognized medical or mental health texts, blaming Robert Dziekanski for his own death.

quote:

Bob Buckingham, a St. John's criminal defence lawyer, said the RNC is making the right move.
"There hasn't been a need exhibited for them. That's one thing," Buckingham said.
"Secondly, use of them across North America has produced unnecessary deaths because [police] don't know how to properly use them."

[ 16 November 2007: Message edited by: N.Beltov ]

Fri, 2007-11-16 05:11

#79

N.Beltov

The Canadian Ambassador to Poland has been, ahem, "invited" to meet with Polish officials in Warsaw on Monday to discuss the death of Robert Dziekanski after he was stunned by an RCMP Taser at Vancouver International Airport.

[url=http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2007/11/15/bc-taserpoland.html]The Polish Government wants some answers[/url]

In other news, Stockwell Day has rejected calls for a Canada-wide review of taser use.

[url=http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2007/11/15/bc-daytasers.... supports Taser use as a "valuable tool". [/url]

Fri, 2007-11-16 05:13

#80

Stargazer

Day is a disgrace to humans the world over. Someone please! Bring this horrible fucking government down.

Fri, 2007-11-16 05:32

#81

N.Beltov

The conduct of this government has harmed Canadian reputations the world over. It's one disgrace after another: support for the bombing of Lebanon as a "measured response"; rejection of indigenous rights from the country that help draft the UN statement on those rights; obsequious and slavishly pro-US policies; more warmongering and extended combat mission in Afghanistan; indifference to the application of capital punishment against Canadians in other countries; etc., etc.. And now this. The Polish government was careful to use diplomatic language to sugar coat how they must be feeling after a Polish immigrant was welcomed to Canada with multiple blasts of 50,000 volts through his body, a knee to his throat, and his last moments of consciousness screaming in pain. When the Minister responsible blathers about business as usual the ugliness smears us all.

Still, this taser incident could simply be the tail wagging the dog. Minister Day is a couple of bottles short of a six-pack and he's probably just regurgitating the spin from the manufacturer and the Mounties. Independent thought is, er, not his strong suit.

[ 16 November 2007: Message edited by: N.Beltov ]

Fri, 2007-11-16 05:55

#82

Sean in Ottawa

I am sorry but I don't quite understand-- is the term "excited delerium" being used to describe these 4 police officers excitedly wanting to use their toys?

I did see the video. What you see is confusion -- where teh person is clearly agitated. Then when the police arrives and pay attention to him he calms- shows submission with his hands raised.

Then he must have been thinking about what happened and is trying to justify/explain what he did and is speakign in an animated way and his arms go out wide to the side and down as people do when they are trying to explain something. Do these police officers know nothing about body language of the most universal kind? He was trying to explain himself. There was no where he could have gone and sufficient space-- if they had all taken a step back literally it would have probably started to difuse the situation and he would have had no where to go. Then they could have made some gesture to indicate they would get a translator and things could have been resolved.

Clearly the guy in his confusion had had a fit but it was ending when the officers arrived and was over when they tasered him and he was trying to explain himself. You can hear them taser him more than once including when he is down already with 3 big guys on top of him.

They did not know he would die. It is not murder. It is manslaughter but it is also something else by the look of it. This looks like torture. Any of the police officers could have made an attempt to do something to difuse the situation. Something must be done to make sure they not only are accountable for what they did but never wear a uniform in this country again.

Question is how many other police officers are like this? How do you identify them and resolve whatever training and culture deficiencies allowed this to happen and then resolve them? All police forces should be looking at this as well as the use of tasers.

Fri, 2007-11-16 06:07

#83

N.Beltov

"Excited delirium" is the term used to explain most, [b]or all,[/b] deaths by taser. It's important to understand that the "studies" and "experts" that peddle this approach are very well organized and aren't going away.

Still, I have yet to see any evidence of death due to "excited delirium" in circumstances other than an individual being tasered prior to their death. Mental health professionals, who have plenty of experience with agitated individuals, don't seem to have the alarming frequency of death in their handling of such individuals.

There is a CBC link connected to this term for those interested in reading more. A left wing approach to this issue would probably make strong use of the views of people, other than the police, who have the experience dealing with "unruly" people [b]without killing them.[/b] I am beginning to think that poor police training and preparation is contributing to this problem.

[url=http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/tasers/excited-delirium.html]CBC link on "Excited delirium" [/url]

[ 16 November 2007: Message edited by: N.Beltov ]

Fri, 2007-11-16 06:09

#84

N.R.KISSED

quote:

I am sorry but I don't quite understand-- is the term "excited delerium" being used to describe these 4 police officers excitedly wanting to use their toys?

I thought the same thing this morning, the term more accurately describes police response to situations than anything else. Interesting that no one dies of "excited delirium" except in the company of the police.

Fri, 2007-11-16 06:17

#85

N.Beltov

This may be the best way to go on this issue. If there is little evidence of death by "excited delirium" outside of the preceding use of taser(s), then that may help lead to a moratorium on taser use until, at least, proper study and analysis can be done.

The Newfoundland cops have it right and have shown some sensible prudence which other police forces have yet to show. I always thought those Newfies were a clever bunch.

Fri, 2007-11-16 06:26

#86

Buddy Kat

"I want to get out, help me find the way...Police! Police! Can't you help me?"

[url=http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/2/story.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10476459]S... from New Zealand[/url]

Can't wait to see and hear the Neo-con apologists / excuse makers spin this one. This story just got even sicker than one can imagine.

What's even getting worse are all the hypothetical situations people are using to defend the use of tasers...it's almost like they are in denial..even the media. There still using words like "police subdued"..."police takedown".

They (Canadians)are gonna have to face it sooner or later. Canada is filled with "badge happy people killing orks" and the only reason this case is gathering attention is because it was video taped.

With our new Neo-con bastard government giving more and more power to the police in their twisted desire for a police state...this is the shit they have brought us. Lets not forget how the rcmp lied every step of the way also.

[img]frown.gif" border="0[/img]

Fri, 2007-11-16 06:59

#87

Frustrated Mess Frustrated Mess's picture

[url=http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/story.html?id=8061df17-d0d8-4271-987d... is beautiful!!![/url]

quote:

The Taser did not kill Robert Dziekanski, says a spokesman for the company that makes the weapon.
The fact the Polish immigrant continued to resist police officers after he was shot proves it, he said.
"Cardiac arrest caused by electrical current is immediate," said Steve Tuttle, vice-president of communications for Taser International in an e-mailed response to requests for an interview.
"This video indicates that the subject was continuing to fight well after the Taser application," he wrote.
"His continuing struggle is proof that the Taser device was not the cause of his death."

There you have it. The bodily convulsions induced by 50,000 volts cursing through your body signs of continued fighting (the initial fight was putting his hands up), and struggle.

This, ladies and gentlemen, is our future under the brave new world of the corporate security state.

Fri, 2007-11-16 07:09

#88

Buddy Kat

Maybe the pathetic and - cheap when it comes to the public - safety minister should be providing the public with these.

"Been knocked down by those TASER toting police one too many times? Actually fearing for your life?"

[url=http:////www.homotron.net/2007/11/antistun_gun_jacket_for_the_st.html]Safety Jacket[/url]

Fri, 2007-11-16 07:25

#89

farnival

quote:

The Taser did not kill Robert Dziekanski, says a spokesman for the company that makes the weapon.
The fact the Polish immigrant continued to resist police officers after he was shot proves it, he said.
"Cardiac arrest caused by electrical current is immediate," said Steve Tuttle, vice-president of communications for Taser International in an e-mailed response to requests for an interview.
"This video indicates that the subject was continuing to fight well after the Taser application," he wrote.
[b]"His continuing struggle is proof that the Taser device was not the cause of his death." [/b]

uh, you don't have to be even remotely intelligent to know that when you are shocked with high voltage a persons muscles will involuntarily contract and spasm.

"continuing to fight"???????? i know if i was shocked like that i would likely freak right out. and now we know that if the police injure you and your body involuntarily reacts to the method they use, you will be considered to be resisting arrest. great. [img]frown.gif" border="0[/img]

perhaps in the inquiry we will find out that the knee on his neck is what killed him and the taser will be completely exonerated! how exciting! oops, i'd better be careful my excitement doesn't make me delerious with hope for the innocence of the exalted Taser!

[ 16 November 2007: Message edited by: farnival ]

Fri, 2007-11-16 08:11

#90

RANGER

This goes beyond tazers,It is the "cowboy" culture of many cops that are putting some of the good ones at risk, driving like idiots, pulling people over and parking their cruisers on the road to make people drive around them,jumping out of bushes to catch some poor dude driving a few "k" over the limit on his way to work, etc. this is a tough job and they should be looking for allies in the law abiding public, not enemies, the RCMP needs a major policy overhaul across the board. They say they follow policy?, get a hold of the stats on "tazer" use after this video release,I think you'll see, maybe not so quick to pull out the tazer now eh?, but as time goes on and memory fades, it will be back to "same old same old" why can't some of these assholes ever learn?

Fri, 2007-11-16 09:49

#91

Buddy Kat

quote:

Originally posted by RANGER:
[b]This goes beyond tazers,It is the "cowboy" culture of many cops that are putting some of the good ones at risk, driving like idiots, pulling people over and parking their cruisers on the road to make people drive around them,jumping out of bushes to catch some poor dude driving a few "k" over the limit on his way to work, etc. this is a tough job and they should be looking for allies in the law abiding public, not enemies, the RCMP needs a major policy overhaul across the board. They say they follow policy?, get a hold of the stats on "tazer" use after this video release,I think you'll see, maybe not so quick to pull out the tazer now eh?, but as time goes on and memory fades, it will be back to "same old same old" why can't some of these assholes ever learn?[/b]

Well first off ..shit rolls down hill..look to your leaders . In this case it's the pathetic minister of public safety who is in charge. What he and his Neo-con friends have done is given the police the power to abuse and kill like a third world hit squad terror cell. And that's just what they do. They don't answer to no one ..they investigate themselves ..they lie..they cover up and they KILL! Who has given them this power???

It's all fine and dandy to blame police for their badge happy power tripping mistakes...but make no mistake about it...they are just puppets and tools of the rulers. Uniformed goons...hell they even swarm innocent people and kill them just like the gangs you read about.(swarming)

The real enemy sits in Ottawa not the detachment.They just follow orders from the top. Unfortunately for the public the media is hand in hand with them, and for good reason .If the public actually knew where governments interests really lay (their very own, not yours) they would revolt.And they would go after the media too for aiding in all the cover ups and being their puppet mouth piece.

I'm kind of surprised this story actually made it out and the video too. Perhaps the story that was in the Neo con controlled newspapers last week on how the rcmp were investigating the cbc because they thought they were infiltrated by "commies" in the 50's, pissed someone off. CBC flexing it's power?

That's why I would like to see a left oriented media...as it is there is no balance.

Things would change in a hurry and you wouldn't have to wait 18 taser(stun gun) deaths later to find out our police forces are just a paranoid governments answer to the fear of getting their you know whats blowing out their you no where... operating off your dime no less.

Fri, 2007-11-16 10:09

#92

Pogo

I am not sure that the taser 'alone' killed him. It looked like that taser put him in a critical state which was exasperated by police (it is harder to breath with a foot on your neck).

If I was a Canadian tourists in Poland I would be taking the maple leaf off my backpack? What a national shame this is!

Fri, 2007-11-16 10:43

#93

N.Beltov

quote:

Pogo: If I was a Canadian tourists in Poland I would be taking the maple leaf off my backpack? What a national shame this is!

Jack Layton, or Gilles Duceppe, or Stephane Dionne [or all 3, this is not a partisan idea] should apologize to the Polish government and people on behalf of Canadians. Who knows what a Harper appointee will say in private to the Polish authorities. The Conservatives have created this mean-spirited climate that encourages police misconduct and such. Now we see the results. Death.

Fri, 2007-11-16 11:23

#94

kropotkin1951

Everyday (and that is not an exageration) a nurse or orderly in an emergency room in Canada deals with patients who are far more agitated and violent than this man was. How is it they can use their traing to descalate the situation and the RCMP can't? What is the problem poor training or misguided training?

When did it become all right for a police officer to use a souped up cattle prod on a human as a means of control? The real problem if you look at the recent taserings is that the police have been told that if they tell someone to get down and spread them that any resistance is justification to use force.

Fri, 2007-11-16 11:42

#95

N.Beltov

Poor police training and preparation has been identified as the cause, recently, of the death of at least one police officer as well. A police officer was recently killed in Hay River and serious questions have been raised about his training and preparation for the job. Furthermore, the TV show [i]The Fifth Estate[/i] identified, in a special on the 4 police officers killed in Mayerthorpe, Alberta, some serious problems with preparation and training of the police officers that were killed.

The Taser issue, serious as it is, may just be the tip of the iceberg as far as the Mounties are concerned. It is beginning to look like they are killing their own as well as killing others.

Fri, 2007-11-16 11:44

#96

Tommy_Paine

It was murder.

And there isn't a politician, or law enforcement representative, or a local crown attorney with the spine to say so.

The shame of being Canadian is that we quietly suffer the amoral cowards who lead us and police us.

Fri, 2007-11-16 11:50

#97

kimi

Some politicians have been raising concerns about taser guns for a long time, for example:

Letter to Ministers about Taser Guns

November 1, 2004

Hon Anne McLellan and Hon Irwin Cotler
House of Commons, Ottawa ON, K1A 0A6

Dear Ministers,

I am writing about an issue of serious concern regarding the use of Taser guns. Many police departments use the Taser as a way to cut rates of injury and death during arrests. However, a growing number of deaths have involved Tasers, particularly when the devise is used on drug users or those with heart conditions.

As I am sure you are aware, two deaths this year in my riding have involved Taser guns during interactions with police. Both Robert Bagnell and Roman Andreichikov had Tasers used on them the night of their deaths. There are six corner investigations under way in Canada involving the use of Tasers.

It is imperative that the government position themselves in the debate to ensure public safety as there are currently no federal standards or even monitoring of the use of Tasers. There are growing numbers of people who are skeptical about the devise and their impact on those that are already marginalized in our society as a result of mental illness, drug use, poverty or general dysfunction.

I believe it is imperative that the federal government review the use of Tasers and report with recommendations on their further use.

I look forward to your response on this important matter.

Yours Sincerely,
Libby Davies MP
Vancouver East

Cc: BC Civil Liberties Association[url=http://libbydavies.ca/mpupdate/safetyanddrugs.html#taser]Letter to Ministers about Taser guns[/url]

Fri, 2007-11-16 11:52

#98

kimi

Here is an action that Word Warriors is circulating this afternoon:
Word warriors – Letter 53 – Demand the RCMP halt the use of tasers

The RCMP is completely out of control in their use of tasers. The stomache
turning video of the Polish immigrant being killed by the RCMP should be the
basis for a ban on these dreadful weapons – at a minimum a moratorium on their
use. If enough Canadian make their feelings known, we could actually win this
one.

Write a quick, short letter supporting an out right ban, but demanding at
least a moratorium on their use by police forces across the country until a
thorough, outside review can be completed coming up with strict, enforceable
guidelines for their use.

I do not have all the research on the issue I would like but in this case you
hardly need it and time is of the essence.

Below is an excerpt from a G&M article by Mark Hume which explains the
framework which is supposed to guide all police in Canada re: taser use:

“Currently, police departments across Canada, including the RCMP, rely on the
National Use-of-Force Framework as a guide to training officers in how to
respond to potentially dangerous situations.

The framework calls on police to assess a situation quickly, and then use an
escalating series of responses, depending on the actions of the subject with
whom they are dealing.

According to a paper by the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police, passive
resistance can trigger a soft physical response, which might involve an
officer placing a hand on someone's shoulder, or putting them in handcuffs. A
subject who offers active resistance, by backing away, running or hiding, can
be met with hard physical control, which could involve joint locks, punches or
strikes with open hands.

It is only when a subject becomes "assaultive," however, that the framework
calls for the use of intermediate weapons, such as the taser or pepper spray.”

[URL=http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20071116.wbctasertict...
Story/National/]Link[/URL]

Fri, 2007-11-16 11:57

#99

Buddy Kat

quote:

Originally posted by kropotkin1951:
[b]
When did it become all right for a police officer to use a souped up cattle prod on a human as a means of control? The real problem if you look at the recent taserings is that the police have been told that if they tell someone to get down and spread them that any resistance is justification to use force.[/b]

Actually up until this video taped incident they pretty well had the authority to kill, subdue or whatever term they see fit in any way they so wish to apprehend a resister. I point to the so called murder of two rcmp officers in Saskatchewan where they tried to drive the guy off the road after they smashed his car window and he sped away. "oh he is resisting..lets go kill him". Unfortunatley for those police the man they were pursuing was a good shot. I would imagine if you feel your life is threatened you do have the right to defend it..unless it's police threatening it. Kind of makes you wonder about all those other so called police murders that's for sure.

Now it appears they can kill regardless of resistance and that's where the line has been moved. I believe it's termed murder. A man pleads for help in his native tongue and the judge, jury and executioner give him the electric chair???? Within a half minute!!!

This could be the new tough on crime approach that 1/3 of Canadians voted for...I think someone a while back used an analogy of Harper flapping his hands saying if they hit you it's because you got in the way. This is the same twisted neo con logic that has been handed down to the police sadly.

You have to also wonder if killing is their most maximum crime they have permission to do what about other possibilities that aren't as violent as taking ones life away...like inguring people intentionally, by breaking there neck or their back...or descrediting them somehow, framing them..or poisoning them...planting drugs on them ...etc..the list is endless.

Fri, 2007-11-16 12:02

#100

Polly B

quote:

The Royal Canadian Mounted Police launched its second national recruiting advertising campaign this week. Forget ordinary, this campaign features a whole new look, with actual police officers performing day-to-day activities. These new ads show that the RCMP offers “a career nowhere near ordinary”, filled with meaningful work and vast opportunities.

[url=http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/recruiting/campaign_e.htm]"actual" police officers [/url] [img]rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img]

Fri, 2007-11-16 12:17

#101

Tommy_Paine

The use of tasers is a red herring in all this.

It's the police attitude. The technology used isn't the issue, it's the low or absent regard for the rights of people by the sociopathic bullies in uniform, and the invertebrates who command them.

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