RCMP tasers 68-year old man (twice) for non-cooperation
Thu, 2007-11-08 20:11
#1
M. Spector
RCMP tasers 68-year old man (twice) for non-cooperation
Thu, 2007-11-08 20:11
#2
M. Spector
quote:
RCMP will investigate two of their own officers after police used a taser to subdue a 68-year-old man in Kelowna, B.C.Supt. Bill McKinnon ordered the administrative review amid concerns the officers may have breached RCMP policy.
....John Peters double-parked his vehicle while picking up his wife Monday morning. As Anne Peters approached, a police car pulled up and one of the officers got out.
The officer had met Mr. Peters in May, after he drove the wrong way through a construction zone. Mr. Peters had argued with the officer then because he was frustrated with the construction.
“This cop had it in for him because of the earlier incident in May,” Mrs. Peters said Wednesday. “At the police station, he said to my husband: ‘Remember in May?'”
....The officer told Mr. Peters he was giving him a ticket for double-parking. Once Mrs. Peters got into the vehicle, Mr. Peters suddenly drove off. The officers drove after him and he pulled over in a parking lot.
“He should not have taken off. I convinced him to pull over, which he would have done anyway. I always try to get him to please be polite to the police officers, but he is who he is,” Mrs. Peters said.
Officers tried to arrest Mr. Peters but he raised his arm, refusing to co-operate. One of them grabbed him by the shirt, and [b]Mrs. Peters told them her husband had suffered a stroke and has a neurological disorder that compromises his ability to understand language.[/b]
“Police zapped him twice with the taser,” she said. Mr. Peters also claims one of the officers punched him.
....[b]The RCMP's policy is to use the conducted energy weapon when confronted by an actively resistant or combative individual, said Supt. McLachlan.[/b]
[url=http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20071108.wbctaser1108... Press[/url]
[ 08 November 2007: Message edited by: M. Spector ]
Thu, 2007-11-08 21:04
#3
Polly B
holy fuck
Thu, 2007-11-08 22:10
#4
ceti
This tops it:
[url=http://www.suntimes.com/news/mitchell/638188,CST-NWS-mitch07.article]82-... woman tasered by Chicago Police, over a third of public approve[/url]
Thu, 2007-11-08 23:33
#5
Chicago, Chicago...That TASERING town?
[img]eek.gif" border="0[/img]
[ 08 November 2007: Message edited by: Ken Burch ]
Fri, 2007-11-09 06:51
#6
I think it's time to start taking away the cops toys until they prove that they can be responsible with them.
Fri, 2007-11-09 07:12
#7
quote:
The RCMP's policy is to use the conducted energy weapon when confronted by an actively resistant or combative individual, said Supt. McLachlan.
So it isn't intended as a non-lethal alternative to firearms after all. At least the cop is honest about that. They are using tasers as behaviour modifiers, as summary punishment on citizens outside the bounds of legality.
Or are the lawnorder types going to argue that the alternative to tasering the 68 year old dude was to shoot him for being an asshole?
Fri, 2007-11-09 08:43
#8
My favourite recent tasering debacle:
quote:
NORTH BRADDOCK, Pa. - Two North Braddock police officers won't face criminal charges for Tasering a man who was asleep at home. But the FBI will review the incident for possible civil rights violations.Allegheny County District Attorney Stephen Zappala Jr. says county police determined Officers Gerard Kraly and Lukas Laeuricia (loo-REE'-see-uh) didn't commit a crime when they Tasered Shawn Hicks, who was sleeping on his couch.
Police came to Hicks home because they were alerted by a silent security alarm at his home about 2 a.m.
Hicks says the officers Tasered him again after he woke up and showed them ID to prove he lived at the home. Hicks' attorney says he will pursue civil action.
[url=http://www.philly.com/philly/wires/ap/news/state/pennsylvania/20071103_a... Press[/url]
Fri, 2007-11-09 08:46
#9
N.Beltov
quote:
Jingles: So it isn't intended as a non-lethal alternative to firearms after all.
Perhaps that approach was intended as a "bait and switch" argument for those inclined not to question anything about the police.
Fri, 2007-11-09 10:59
#10
[img]http://www.cpc-cpp.gc.ca/app/ImageRepository/1/Reports/06_07_report/figu...
This thing is called the RCMP IM/IM (Incident Management/Intervention Model). Basically it shows what actions and use-of-force RCMP members are permitted to use when responding to various classes of behaviour. When utilizing this tool officers are also trained to do an AIM (Ability, Intent, Means) assessment. For example, a person might be demonstrating 'death or grievious harm' (DGH) behaviour cues by yelling "I'm going to kill you pigs". He satisfies the intent portion for DGH, but if he's confined to a wheelchair and doesn't have a pistol then his Ability and Means aren't satisfied and he should thus not be shot.
At this current time, Tasers (called Conducted Energey Weapons in RCMP jargon), are classed as 'Intermediate Devices'. This puts them on the same level as OC (pepper) spray and *below* impact weapons (the baton). Intermediate weapons are permitted to be used from high resistant behaviour up to DGH behaviour, if AIM is reasonably satisfied.
RCMP uses the terms 'un-cooperative' and 'resistant'. Most other Canadian police forces use the terms 'passively resistant' and 'actively resistant' instead. The sergeant interviewed for this story actually mis-spoke when he used the term 'actively resistant' with regards to Taser use as it's not an approved RCMP term.
I was just re-certified to use the Taser. My original training was several years ago. I'm qualified on the old M26 and the new X26. By policy we are supposed to capture a lot of statistics regarding Taser use. I'd be curious to see these RCMP statistics.
[ 09 November 2007: Message edited by: Sam Steele ]
[ 09 November 2007: Message edited by: Sam Steele ]
Fri, 2007-11-09 11:33
#11
And the government would have us believe we are supposed to be petrified of the "Taliban"...What a hypocracy...and if the solution is to kill them (taliban)....what is the solution for this mess????
Bend over and be electrocuted to death to pacify paranoid governments security tool???
Basic law of physics..."For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction". Then they wonder why people are getting ANGRY...It's a friggin no brainer! Time to invest in the tombstone and flower business$$$$. [img]wink.gif" border="0[/img] Investment tip of the week.
It's also worth mentioning that here in Canada when you hear "Police are investigating themselves" it really means "Police are exonerating themselves". Another hypocritical farce that I'm sure many Canadians have seen right thru...
[ 09 November 2007: Message edited by: Buddy Kat ]
Fri, 2007-11-09 13:18
#12
Canadians like to be punished.
It is why Toronto is the S&M capital of the world.
Fri, 2007-11-09 13:45
#13
M. Spector
Meanwhile the RCMP are still hot on the Dziekanski case (Vancouver Airport):
quote:
The RCMP's Integrated Homicide Investigation Team is still investigating the airport incident, although the officers involved are still on active duty.Corporal Dale Carr, a spokesman for the team, said yesterday he expects the RCMP investigation to [b]take another 45 days[/b]. [url=http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20071109.BCTASER09/TPSt...
Maybe to speed things up the IHIT investigators ought to be issued tasers; that usually seems to help the cops to make faster judgments.
Fri, 2007-11-09 13:56
#14
quote:
Originally posted by Sam Steele:
[b][img]http://www.cpc-cpp.gc.ca/app/ImageRepository/1/Reports/06_07_report/figu...This thing is called the RCMP IM/IM (Incident Management/Intervention Model).
[ 09 November 2007: Message edited by: Sam Steele ][ 09 November 2007: Message edited by: Sam Steele ][/b]
and it looks like a seriously messed up dartboard, which may explain why innocent people are getting tasered.
Sat, 2007-11-10 00:57
#15
The whole model of that 'circle' is seriously wrong. Escalation should be presented as a straight line.
Look how close "Lethal Force" is to "Officer Presence" on the circle.
What if a moron officer decides to go counter-clockwise, believing that 'clockwise' is evil? Trust me, misanthropic morons get jobs as police as no one else would hire them.
In fact, being misanthropic makes you an awfully good candidate at the Police College.
Thu, 2007-11-22 08:39
#16
TemporalHominid
deleted to prevent cross posting
[ 22 November 2007: Message edited by: TemporalHominid ]
Sun, 2007-11-25 06:40
#17
I think this is the latest thread on tasers, right?
Anyhow, our editor, Derrick, did an excellent interview with the organizer of a demo in Vancouver:
[url=http://www.rabble.ca/rabble_interview.shtml?sh_itm=f71efbe4f1539775f4374... it is.[/url]
quote:
It has now been over five weeks since Robert Dziekanski died after being Tasered by RCMP officers at the Vancouver International Airport. While a video of the incident sparked worldwide media coverage and widespread outrage, the provincial and federal governments have just recently made public apologies for the death.The killing of Robert Dziekanski has resulted in calls for the use of Tasers by police forces to be banned. In Vancouver, local outrage over the incident will be culminating in a protest rally this weekend that is expected to be the largest the city has seen in sometime. rabble.ca editor Derrick O'Keefe caught up with Tania Lukasiewicz, one of the main organizers of this grassroots initiative.
Sun, 2007-11-25 09:30
#18
When we are at work, no matter how small of a shock you may recieve you are told to get checked out because it could have put a hole in heart or somewhere else important. Now if we are told that for a little poke from 12 volts, where the hell is the logic of allowing them to blast you multiple times with 50,000 volts(I don't care how low the amps are) If it is illegal in the workplace I don't see how it can be legal for state goonerism.
Wed, 2007-11-28 06:58
#19
The latest pro taser arguements from supporters of this torture device is "it saves lives"...Of course they estimate thousands. This from last nights cbc your turn where they posed questions to officials.
Of course they didn't provide any proof just heresay...unlike the other arguement where they(tasers) destroy life. In that case you can produce relatives and husbands, and wives ..and children of victims...did they? of course not.
We need a new media in this country ..one that will show the taser blinded person or the tortured to death individual . I'll bet you can have an entire tv channel devoted to the issue.
This new found attitude of sacrificing a few to save a perceived many sounds like a terror group to me or we have political leaders that are so paranoid they will stop at nothing to appease there fear. Kind of reminds me of ancient cultures sacrificing people to the sun god...in this century yet!
Thu, 2007-11-29 14:10
#20
quote:
Originally posted by Sam Steele:
[img]http://www.cpc-cpp.gc.ca/app/ImageRepository/1/Reports/06_07_report/figu...
I see from this wheel that the only cooperation on the part of someone will result in a non violent response from police. So, in the "I'm going to kill the pigs" example, the person may not be shot because ability and means are not present.
But certainly he/she would still be at least considered "resistive" and would therefore, according to the wheel, be a candidate for "intermediate devices" and could therefore be tasered in his wheelchair.
I think that if we can't get rid of these stun guns the "intermediate weapons" bar should be shortened to only start at "Combative". That would save even more lives I'm sure.
Fri, 2007-11-30 00:35
#21
Mass tasering + mass incarceration = a Fascist police state (or very close to it).
Where there is smoke (deflections & 'internal investigations'), there is (Fascist) fire.
[ 30 November 2007: Message edited by: Peppered Pothead ]
Fri, 2007-11-30 06:06
#22
Swiss MP volunteers for Taser-ing :
[url=http://www.20min.ch/ro/rechercher/story/26903785]http://www.20min.ch/ro/...
[url=http://juliensansonnens.blog.24heures.ch/general/taser-perrin-sera-respo...
... concludes jolt is "staggering", but a legitimate law enforcement tool, proposes continued use by Switzerland security personnel
[ 30 November 2007: Message edited by: Geneva ]
Fri, 2007-11-30 06:10
#23
Frustrated Mess
Yeah, you know, and many Canadian cops have been tasered as part of the training. I'm not a medical expert, but I would bet the impact of being tasered by someone who knows it is coming and has consented to it and is calm at the time is very different than the victim who is agitated, probably exhibiting high stress, increased breathing and high blood pressure, and has not consented to being tasered.
Fri, 2007-11-30 06:35
#24
I have no doubt stress affects the impact
Fri, 2007-11-30 06:41
#25
It doesn't require much voltage or current to stop a heart or too start a heart. These killers know this and so does the manufacturer.The electric chair only puts out 2500 volts the taser 50,000 volts. Voltage as little 1.5 across a heart can kill, at a fairly low current. 50 volts across the heart will definately kill.
Oh yeh this is Canada where it is ok to kill in the long term but not instantly (msec). I keep forgetting that. They got Canadians so convinced that 25,000 die each year from chemical toxicity and poison air they have them convinced it's ok to die this way.
When they do these tests ,they do them on extremely healthy individuals.
Lets get those old crony rcmp officers under the taser especially the ones with conjestive heart failure or irregular heart beats or weak hearts....it won't happen because it will kill them. Perhaps this is a solution to there pension woes. After 20 years of service they taser you and 6 months later you die of heart failure. No cop..no pension..No problem! Mr neocon walks to the bank with his big sack of money and everybody is happy.
They know there device is a killing tool..does that make them guilty of murder if they kill someone with it? It would if you did that.
It will be just a matter of time before people get wise to the fact that the taser can kill them and in stupid situations where a taser is drawn on them they will be forced to react as in a life and death situation. I would expect if police don't get there act together, plenty of them will end up on autopsy slabs.
Perhaps one of those use of force graphic wheels should be made for the public. When is it ok for a citizen too defend themselves from a killer? How much force is required for a citizen to stop an armed person? What kind of force is necessary? etc. etc.
Fri, 2007-11-30 07:17
#26
Frustrated Mess
quote:
It doesn't require much voltage or current to stop a heart or too start a heart. These killers know this and so does the manufacturer.The electric chair only puts out 2500 volts the taser 50,000 volts. Voltage as little 1.5 across a heart can kill, at a fairly low current. 50 volts across the heart will definately kill.
Again, no expert, but isn't the amperage what kills?
Fri, 2007-11-30 09:17
#27
quote:
Originally posted by Frustrated Mess:
[b]
Again, no expert, but isn't the amperage what kills?[/b]
That is true it is the amps that kill. You could have alot of voltage and little current or little voltage and alot of current, it all depends on the resistance that the voltage is across. Ohm's law states that voltage equals current multiplied by resistance (V=IR).
I don't know how these tasers are designed but there must be some current limiting components. Otherwise at 50 kilovolts you would literally incinerate someone.
But 100 milamps of current is considered to be the threshold of what is considered to be non fatal amperage. The human body has very high resistance, in the range of Megohms, but that is dependent on certain things like dry skin and not standing on a wet surface.
So rearranging the formula above to solve for current, 50,000(voltage)/4,000,000(body resistance)= 12.5 milamps. Well below what is considered to be near fatal.
Now let's see what happens when someone is sweating and standing on wet grass. Water is an extremely good electrical conductor. So say a persons overall body resistance now drops to 250,000 or 250 Kohms.
50,000/250,000=200 milamps, definitely fatal. Of course that's not taking into account any other factors which may affect a persons ability to survive a tasering like health problems or a very high heart rate.
Fri, 2007-11-30 16:07
#28
It only takes 1.5 volts across the heart to kill...at 10 - 50 ma. (depending on heart size and health)
tasers are capable of 100's of milliamps of current.
I don't think mr killer cop is going to give a shit when he aims his electrocution device if the electrodes are across your heart or not.
One solution is probably to moon the bastard before he fires..that way he really doesn't have much choice of where to shoot. Across the butt 50,000 volts even at 1/2 amp would probably equal a swift kick.
Which , depending on the circumstance is what the taser victim probably deserves in the first place after getting him or herself in a situation requiring a taser happy cop.
Sat, 2007-12-01 06:17
#29
A good article in today's Star:
[url=http://www.thestar.com/article/281499]The Dark Lure of 'Pain Compliance'.[/url]
quote:
Taser-related deaths often come as a shock to police officers, not only because they have been told the Taser is non-lethal, but because they have seen it tested. Many, no doubt, have even felt the weapon's effects as police instructors are known to commonly demonstrate Tasers on their students.The fact is a Taser will not kill a normal, healthy person under controlled circumstances. The problem is that Tasers are rarely used against normal, healthy people in controlled circumstances.
quote:
Buxton points out that Taser Inc.'s own literature admits that 20 per cent of Taser use is for pain compliance. The officer who didn't want to be named admitted that was the case, but that he'd never done it himself.
Sat, 2007-12-01 06:29
#30
What I don't get is, why are the police given the right to extrajudicially torture people? "Pain compliance" is another word for "torture". That's why you torture people, or make them feel extreme pain. To make them comply with your request.
Cops should not be allowed to torture people to make them comply. They should be allowed to defend themselves, certainly. But it's not "defending yourself" to shock someone because they're refusing to get out of a car or resisting arrest.
Sat, 2007-12-01 06:48
#31
Google this : "taser inc. mark kroll".
It turns out, Taser Inc. CEO Dr. Kroll (Cardiac specialist ?), was at the Las Vegas Taser Inc. conference documented by the CBC, where the concensus was, "Canadians are just being hysterical".
Neo-Fascism is fueled by 2 things :
1) unfettered monetary greed
2) a desire to persecute, punish, incarcerate and torture those who are viewed as subversive or threatening to the establishment & authority.
Sat, 2007-12-01 08:42
#32
quote:
Originally posted by Peppered Pothead:
[b]Google this : "taser inc. mark kroll".It turns out, Taser Inc. CEO Dr. Kroll (Cardiac specialist ?), was at the Las Vegas Taser Inc. conference documented by the CBC, where the concensus was, "Canadians are just being hysterical".
[/b]
Funny last night I heard an ad on an american radio station....(from taser dot com consumer products)..for taser christmas presents...for the public just like the model the police use. Give your loved ones the best gift they can ever get.
Now there is a hysterical nation if their ever was one!
Taser Xmas gifts...give me a break!
Merry Xmas ZAP!
[img]biggrin.gif" border="0[/img]
It's just a matter of time before the Canadain consumer gets to have there very own taser..legal or not, to protect themselves from the overzealous police ...perhaps a free one with every bag of underworld pot purchased..oh that would fix the Canadian cops ass but good especially the old ones with heart problems pumping there torture mentality down the throats of trusting Canadians....oh what tangled webs the neocons weave when first they practice to decieve, intimidate, torture and kill Canadians and Polish people.
I have to agree tho it's all about intimidation and control..if it wasn't animal tranquilizers would be used on people...but there is no fun, torture or intimidation in that just a short nap.They would have a hard time recruiting killer cops to protect there corrupt ass's. Remember they treat people like animals anyways, except in the way they subdue them. That is for a reason.
Sat, 2007-12-01 09:20
#33
quote:
..if it wasn't animal tranquilizers would be used on people...but there is no fun, torture or intimidation in that just a short nap.
Not really a great idea there, Buddy.
Sat, 2007-12-01 10:50
#34
quote:
Originally posted by oldgoat:
[b]Not really a great idea there, Buddy.[/b]
How about a GHB(date rape drug) dart?...the victim becomes paralyzed while the rcmp has there way with them. Albeit there have been some recent cases of rcmp officers ejaculating (JUST DO A GOOGLE SEARCH "EJACULATING RCMP")on people in custody and surprisingly convicted and even some kiddy porn cops caught..the trade off might be worth it.
I'm just looking at alternatives too electrocution torture devices that kill and are being abused by those in authority.
I don't know enough about animal tranquilizers...but there must be an alternative that is safer. I don't see any problem with animal tranquilizers being used..what's the problem? dosage? are they fatal like tasers? Seems to me to be ideal , seems to also follow the logic and policy of our security system in the way they do treat people like animals. They even place them in cages still. Leg irons, etc. They even beat them with clubs for crying out loud! And gas them too! Hell they even spray noxious compounds in their faces to control them !
The problem is there is no fun or intimidation if everyone just fell asleep would there? No one would join the police if all they did was rock people to sleep like uniformed babysitters....where would government be without there manned swat units and manned machine guns?
Jeez I was just watching Shrieber walking to his house while his pants were falling down ..so they even humiliate people like some animals are abused or teased.
That of course was a neo con tv report that showed that. So it was kind of expected..Shrieber even made referance to how the Neocon security system is going out of it's way to treat him very animal like in there effort to discredit him.
This is Canada the pinnacle of human rights and justice..har har har
[img]biggrin.gif" border="0[/img] [img]biggrin.gif" border="0[/img] [img]biggrin.gif" border="0[/img]
Sat, 2007-12-01 12:03
#35
Okay, let's nip this in the bud, okay? That could trigger people who've actually been through this sort of rape. I realize you're being sarcastic and the RCMP deserves your scorn, and I wouldn't put it past some of them, but this is gratuitous.
Sat, 2007-12-01 12:18
#36
For those interested in protecting themselves against the gratuitous police use of tasers, there is protective gear available.
It's called a business suit.
Sat, 2007-12-01 12:24
#37
We laugh because it's funny and cry because it's true.
Sat, 2007-12-01 13:38
#38
quote:
Originally posted by Michelle:
[b]Okay, let's nip this in the bud, okay? That could trigger people who've actually been through this sort of rape. I realize you're being sarcastic and the RCMP deserves your scorn, and I wouldn't put it past some of them, but this is gratuitous.[/b]
Point taken however it is not "some of them"...it's MOST of them.
If you ever happen to have the opportunity to read the report entitled "It comes with the territory" you will agree. While the report documents internal security of Canada and how the males treat the woman in security systems you will concur it is most that are chauvinistic and sexist. Cases of males slashing the tires of female officers and not responding to life endangering calls and all kinds of abusive acts are documented both physical and verbal.
The document may be for enhanced security levels but may not be. And by the way things are even worse now than when the document was done.
You can thank both liberal and conservative types for the inaction and the proliferation of these cruel chauvanistic sexist and criminal acts.
Sorry to say and it is indeed sad..The security systems in Canada foster the very acts we deem criminal and repulsive especially when it comes to the treatment of woman, both internally and externally.
All this business with tasers and killing it's all part of the Canadian security mentality.
[img]frown.gif" border="0[/img]
Sat, 2007-12-01 14:03
#39
I wonder if anyone pursues that career path without some deep seated desire to "kick-ass" in the first place?
It might explain the gratuitous use of the available weaponry.
Sun, 2007-12-02 02:42
#40
I'm sure that is part of it. I would guess that another part of it is burn out-- having to deal with the worst of society until one comes to believe the worst of everyone in society.
Perhaps more rigorous psychological testing for recruits and periodic interviews there after could reduce that kind of thing-- but it won't eliminate it.
A better step would be to purge the corrections system of senior officers, Crowns attorney, Justices of the Peace and Judges who willfully and knowingly enable this activity.
Sun, 2007-12-02 06:36
#41
Maysie
quote:
Originally posted by viigan:
[b]I wonder if anyone pursues that career path without some deep seated desire to "kick-ass" in the first place?
It might explain the gratuitous use of the available weaponry.[/b]
Hi viigan and everyone. viigan, you are spot on with this observation.
A buddy of mine worked the overnight shift in an open custody group home for many years. He said that almost all the staff there either wanted to be cops and couldn't get in, or were waiting to pass their tests to be corrections officers. My buddy was putting himself through school and the shifts fit with his schedule. He told me that when the staff sat around talking they would talk about how the system was "too easy" and how the young men needed to be "taught how to behave" under their authority. Many of the staff considered them to be criminals that were too far gone to be helped back to a more positive path. These were all young men under 19 years old.
I say, if you have authority issues, get some therapy, don't take it out on other humans. But I'm a bit of a dreamer sometimes.
Tue, 2007-12-04 10:58
#42
Jingles is on to something here:
quote:
So it isn't intended as a non-lethal alternative to firearms after all.
They are using tasers as behaviour modifiers.
That sounds about right. The creation of a police state would use these incidents as an "educational tactic" - show Canadian citizens that Tasers WILL be used if you step out of line even just a little bit, and that the Tasers just might kill you.
It has been done on the USA for awhile now, police beating up blacks with nightsticks to show them that they will not be tolerated on the streets at all.
Therefore, media coverage turns out to be a catch-22, where we demand to see it but then it becomes a scare-tactic tool. Notice how they focus on the victim's suffering and the police domination of the situation. What would tell people to stay in line more than that?
Wed, 2007-12-12 14:14
#43
quote:
[b]RCMP should restrict taser use immediately: report[/b]The RCMP should immediately restrict the use of tasers to only the most serious encounters with people who are combative or pose a risk of “death or grievous bodily harm,” the head of the force's public complaints commission says.
[url=http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20071212.wtaser1212/B...
Wed, 2007-12-12 14:26
#44
I thought that was ALREADY what they were supposed to be used for! They should start ENFORCING the policy.
Thu, 2007-12-13 08:46
#45
quote:
Originally posted by Michelle:
[b]I thought that was ALREADY what they were supposed to be used for! They should start ENFORCING the policy.[/b]
No, Michelle, up to this point tasers are considered to be "intermediate weapons" which, if you look at the "wheel" allows them to use it on persons considered "resistive".
Kennedy wants them to reclassify tasers to be considered as "impact weapons", which again if you look at that dumb wheel, means they would only be allowed to use it on persons who are deemed to be "combative".
Although personally, I don't think it will make a huge difference as what is considered to be combative would be subjective, especially if there are no third party witnesses.
"He had his TV remote in his hand! I had to shock him for twenty minutes straight!"
Thu, 2007-12-13 09:32
#46
N.Beltov
The report by the in-house head of the RCMP Complaints Commission is a start. Poor training and direction was bound to be part of the problem. However, given the giddy enthusiasm with which the Mounties, and other police authorities, misuse the Taser and other similar devices, a moratorium would have been sensible to recommend.
Shouldn't proper training, which is clearly missing, even from the RCMP point of view, [b]precede[/b] any use of the Taser? And, since this [i]proper[/i] training is currently lacking, wouldn't it be wise to have a moratorium on the use of the Taser for the time being? (Or, at least until the missing and lacking training is completed.)What's a human life worth, anyway?
I don't think the in-house report is clearly thought out other than as something to give the appearance of serious consideration of Taser misuse. More public pressure is needed to ensure that there are no more disgraceful incidents where an immigrant to this country spends his last conscious moments screaming in pain before slipping into unconsciousness and death for the "crime" of being unruly and damaging property.
Thu, 2007-12-13 11:22
#47
quote:
Originally posted by Maritimesea:
[QB]I see from this wheel that the only cooperation on the part of someone will result in a non violent response from police.
No, you'll note that 'verbal intervention' actually rings around the wheel. From my experience 'verbal intervention' suffices in the vast majority of cases up to and including 'resistant' behaviour. I arrest 5-10 people per month but it only gets physical in probably 10% of the cases, and it's usually only mildly physical. All out fights only happen a couple times per year. I haven't used any of the tools on my belt in over two years (last time was spraying two huge guys who were beating the crap out of each other and wouldn't stop).
quote:
But certainly he/she would still be at least considered "resistive" and would therefore, according to the wheel, be a candidate for "intermediate devices" and could therefore be tasered in his wheelchair.
Nope, still no ability or means so I'd just write up an 'appearance notice' for threats and drop it on his or her lap and then go seak a firearms prohibition.
Thu, 2007-12-13 14:07
#48
Seems to me the original selling point behind the taser was an incident in Toronto where a man off his medication and threatening everyone with a large knife was shot dead by police. That's the type of situation the public had in mind, and it's a far cry from how the taser has been used.
But I think most people have really missed the whole point here about technology. The taser is the biggest red herring ever dragged across the hound's path.
The real technology story here is the phone camera and Youtube.
Youtube justice.
We can place all the latest technology in the hands of police, and give them all the training required, but it makes little difference if there are no consequences for liars.
The pre video RCMP explanation of the murder of Vancouver man differs from what everyone-- including RCMP brass and the local crown-- saw happen.
And there's no charges. And no justice.
Sat, 2007-12-15 17:09
#49
"Ottawa mulling recommendation to restrict Taser use"
[url=http://tinyurl.com/yutjcz]http://tinyurl.com/yutjcz[/url]
quote:
The federal government says it will consider a recommendation made Wednesday by the RCMP’s public complaints commission that the police force immediately restrict — but not suspend — the use of Tasers.Public Safety Minister Stockwell Day said he wanted to review the 10 recommendations contained in an interim report by Paul Kennedy, head of the RCMP’s Commission for Public Complaints, before commenting further.
An RCMP spokeswoman said the police service had received the report and is preparing a response ...
[ 15 December 2007: Message edited by: toddsschneider ]
Sun, 2007-12-16 10:33
#50
quote:
Originally posted by Sam Steele:
No, you'll note that 'verbal intervention' actually rings around the wheel. From my experience 'verbal intervention' suffices in the vast majority of cases up to and including 'resistant' behaviour. I arrest 5-10 people per month but it only gets physical in probably 10% of the cases, and it's usually only mildly physical. All out fights only happen a couple times per year. I haven't used any of the tools on my belt in over two years (last time was spraying two huge guys who were beating the crap out of each other and wouldn't stop).
Your right of course, but I should rephrase to say that cooperation on the part of a person is the only thing that [i]guarantees[/i] a verbal response from police, again, according to the wheel.
quote:
Nope, still no ability or means so I'd just write up an 'appearance notice' for threats and drop it on his or her lap and then go seak a firearms prohibition.
Well obviously not every officer considers ability-means-intent as carefully or Robert Dziekanski would still be alive.
I am perfectly aware that not every officer is a graduate of the Dirty Harry police academy, but the wall of silence that goes up whenever one of them is too liberal with the use of force by [i]all[/i] officers appears to the public as collective agreement.
Mon, 2007-12-17 08:50
#51
What people fail to realize is that guns kill too and they also wound...which puts them in the same class as a taser.
The gun however is used as a last resort but that doesn't stop the dirty harry types from killing does it. As a matter of fact I'll bet they kill more with guns than anything...look at that guy in Vancouver they shot multiple times like a gang land killing except it was the police.
The danger is now they use tasers which like the gun can kill or wound ... they are using it at every opportunity they can. So they may as well be using guns every time they show up.
Given the mentality , stupidity and paranoia of our leaders the only way taser use is going to be banned or whatever is when people start killing police in self defence... Except when a gun is drawn it may not be used..when the taser is drawn it's always used.
So it's just a matter of time before problems start and I don't think it's going to be rocket science to figure out the only way to stop a cop from killing you with a taser is?????
They will have no one to blame but themselves. [img]wink.gif" border="0[/img]
The writing is on the wall