Globe and Mail: It's Official: Feminism Is Dead
Wed, 2008-01-30 05:23
#1
Globe and Mail: It's Official: Feminism Is Dead
Wed, 2008-01-30 05:23
#2
[url=http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080126.wnoticed26/B...'s Official: Feminism is Dead[/url]
quote:
Whether it's because we've all fallen asleep at our tasks like Snow White, or whether we've been outplayed in a subtle and long-standing culture war, what is clear is that we are living in a new era of post-feminism. That the young women I know see no great victory in Hillary Clinton's run for the U.S. presidency is proof enough. That they also see Barack Obama as the one candidate who represents "change" is nothing less than astounding.SNIP
At the same time, according to numerous recent global studies, women - even those part of the growing ranks of double-income families - still shoulder the brunt of both housework and child care. And the right to choose, a key rallying cry for traditional feminists, is so taken for granted by today's young women that they giggle along with the hipster protagonists in Knocked Up who aren't mature enough to say the word "abortion" and the wisecracking teenager in Juno who opts to carry her baby to term because the abortion clinic gives her the creeps.
But worst of all is feminism's failure to create true sisterhood. Like mean girls in the playground, we started feeling all warm and fuzzy toward Clinton only after our claws and barbs drew tears. Which, given the current "race versus feminism" question, might help explain why Clinton is doing just about as well with black voters as Obama is doing with women. Because if there is one thing that blacks and women share, apart from their oppression from the white male corridors of power, it is their enduring lack of faith in their own community.
A number of letters to the editor have appeared in the Globe and Mail since this article was published on Saturday, including one by [url=http://www.staceymayfowles.com/]Stacey May Fowles[/url], which begins:
quote:
As the publisher of a feminist magazine for teenage girls, and as a proud 28-year-old feminist, I'm truly astounded by Karen von Hahn's article It's Official: Feminism Is Out Of Style (Jan. 26). It's official? Whether or not your 26-year-old niece or 18-year-old daughter happens to know who Gloria Steinem is doesn't qualify as "research" on my generation's belief systems on gender equality.
Wed, 2008-01-30 05:30
#3
Maysie
Sigh.
I'm too lazy to look up the references, but when the second wave began, back in the early 70s, within one year the MSM was proclaiming that feminism was dead.
Hey, the MSM creates the news, as much as it reports it, right? And nobody in the MS ever wanted feminism, in any form or wave, right?
So we shouldn't be surprised.
In fact, I would almost say that since doofuses, I mean, editors, at the G&M feel it's important to continue to shout this "news", that we must be doing something right, then. Or maybe it was a slow news day.
It's still frikking annoying though.
Wed, 2008-01-30 05:46
#4
The powers-that-be have been proclaiming feminism dead since the 19th century. Idem socialism and the labour movement.
And what does whether young women in Canada recognise a certain figure from a certain wing of the women's movement in the US several decades ago have to do with anything?
Wed, 2008-01-30 08:18
#5
remind
They, the patriarchy, want feminism dead, and as such want to frame the debate that it is, in order to marginalize, and denigrate feminists, in order to control 50% of the population.
If young girls, do not yet appreciate, what their mothers, aunts and grandmothers have been fighting for now, they certainly will know by the time they are 27 or 28. And by the time they are into their late 30's and the 40 years, they will see how they were "hornswaggled" into belieiving patriarchy does not exist and there is nothing feminists need to fight for.
If feminism has failed to create a sisterhood, and I take strong exception to that statement, as I believe it is not accurate, then stronger actions and words need to be used to combat, the forces against women's equality.
Having said that, disagreements between women in seeking true equality, are to be expected, as in the case of familiar sisterhood. Sisters may fight, but they recognize the ties that bind them anyway and will unite under threats to their safety and security, as well as for common cause.
Wed, 2008-01-30 08:52
#6
One way to counter that familiar "feminism dead long live the status quo" MSM canard is to take heed of how certain patterns are changing: women seem to be leaving abusive male partners earlier than before - and before having married them; they are choosing to have children later, when they have managed to acquire enough of an education/workplace experience to survive abandonment or leaving; they now have words, more confidence and recourses to fight discrimination, harassment and abuse; they are more wary of "new men" and pseudo-allies than their mothers were.
It is true however that change seems to be happening in less visible, spectacular venues than what was fashioned for MSMs back then, i.e. in individual lives, particular communities, less mainstream organizations. The challenge seems to be finding mediations to make this progress viable in the mainstream polity, given the coopting and clearcutting that has happened in academia, political parties and major women's orgs.
Neither the MSM nor the armchair cynics' brigade are helping.
[ 30 January 2008: Message edited by: martin dufresne ]
Wed, 2008-01-30 10:13
#7
writer
I am *thrilled* to use this thread to announce the launch of a new website – [url=http://section15.ca]section15.ca[/url].
P.S. I am the editor!
Wed, 2008-01-30 10:27
#8
remind
wow, writer, it looks wonderful, inclusive and appears to be a significant addition to feminist activism. :happy dannce: :clappinghands:
Congrats on your new position, and I wish you, and those at section15, great success.
Wed, 2008-01-30 10:33
#9
Brava! I love the "rebels without a clause" line.
Wed, 2008-01-30 10:53
#10
writer
Many thanks! It is pretty exciting.
Wed, 2008-01-30 12:04
#11
It looks wonderful, writer! Congrats! I have it bookmarked, and will add it to my list of sites to regularly visit.
Thu, 2008-01-31 08:56
#12
agreed- it looks awsome, will give it a good read later.
As for the ignorance about Gloria Steinem thing- people don't know what feminsim is and don't have a critical perspective, so they don;t understandthat they are oppressed- I mean they might know about beauty standards and unequal pay but they don't really pay attention, you know what I mean ? They don't see the system.
Thu, 2008-01-31 09:42
#13
Well, personally I don't think Steinhem had or has any patent on feminism. Judy Rebick who founded rabble was and remains infinitely more progressive.
Do any of you remember that Steinhem went out with Henry Kissinger? I have no idea whether they "did it" and don't give a rat's arse, but she was spotted on the arm of one of the worst abetters of mass murder and torture in the last decades of the 20th Century - that shithead supported regimes that tortured dear friends of mine.
I'd suspect that if I asked most of the young feminists I know about names of famous feminists outside Quйbec, de Beauvoir would be first on the list, and Rebick would be on it (actually Judy did live here for several years, but they would know her more on the basis of overcoming abortion laws 20 years ago).
Thu, 2008-01-31 10:05
#14
rural - Francesca
Our education system has produced children who can name Rosa Parks (as they should) but have no clue on the women's movement.
I'll ask my daughter to night, the name of a feminist, and see who she comes up with.
Fri, 2008-02-01 05:08
#15
writer
Interesting you should mention Rosa Parks.
[url=http://section15.ca/features/people/2008/01/29/viola_desmond/]Viola Desmond[/url] is profiled in the first feature of section15.ca.
Why don't most Canadians know about her?
Fri, 2008-02-01 05:15
#16
quote:
Why don't most Canadians know about her?
We profiled her in at least one of our books for struggling readers at the publishing house I work for. They're used in the school system, so hopefully they'll be used in some lesson plans. (Not only so I continue to have a job [img]biggrin.gif" border="0[/img] , but because her story is one of way too many that we all should know.)
Fri, 2008-02-01 05:41
#17
rural - Francesca
quote:
Originally posted by writer:
[b]Interesting you should mention Rosa Parks.[url=http://section15.ca/features/people/2008/01/29/viola_desmond/]Viola Desmond[/url] is profiled in the first feature of section15.ca.
Why don't most Canadians know about her?[/b]
I noted the same thing!
Fri, 2008-02-01 06:06
#18
quote:
Originally posted by writer:
[b][url=http://section15.ca/features/people/2008/01/29/viola_desmond/]Viola Desmond[/url] is profiled in the first feature of section15.ca.Why don't most Canadians know about her?[/b]
Very good question. She's new to me.
Why don't more Canadians know about[url=http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/physicians/002032-250-e.html] Emily Stowe? [/url]I mean, she only founded the suffrage movement in Canada, and was our first woman school principal (1852), the first woman to practice medicine in Canada (1867), organized the Women’s Medical College in Toronto, and so on. At least[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emily_Stowe] Wikipedia knows about her. [/url]And she rated[url=http://famouscanadianwomen.com/stamps/stowe.htm] a Canadian postal stamp in 1981. [/url]And there are several books about her, including a couple of books for young readers, one of which should be in every school classroom (but they aren't.)
But has anyone much noticed how far ahead of her time she was? She organized our first suffrage group [i]in 1877[/i] when its members had to use a fake name for it for its first 6 years, working undercover. Her [i]daughter[/i] Augusta Stowe-Gullen was first woman doctor to graduate from a Canadian medical school, in 1883, and was the first woman elected a school trustee in 1892, and the second President of the Dominion Women's Enfranchisement Association in 1903 (suceeding her mother). In short, Emily Stowe was a really full generation ahead of our early feminists.
So why isn't she as well known as Sir John A. Macdonald? Dumb question.
[ 01 February 2008: Message edited by: Wilf Day ]
Fri, 2008-02-01 06:51
#19
I asked my nieces if they though feminism was dead. And they said no.
I spent some time talking to them and I noticed that they assume (and they should) that they have every right to do whatever they want with their careers and their lives. It seemed me, to be the same attitute I remember boys having when I went to school.
Fri, 2008-02-01 08:04
#20
remind
1-7, I asked my daughter the same thing yesterday, and got a "ya right, not fucking likely, if anything it is growing down here in the Victoria area, women I know down here are refusing to take their brains out of their heads and throwing them on the floor in order to have a relationship with a man"
And in that note, she herself is evidence that it is not. She just bought [b]her[/b] own first home, on her own at 28. As I remember a single gf of mine who struggled in the 80's to qualify for a mortgage because she didn't have a husband, even though she more than qualified for it financially.
Fri, 2008-02-01 10:25
#21
In the words of one slogan I enjoy, I'll be post-feminist in the post-patriarchy.
(It works well, mutatis mutandis, for the variety of premature "posts" currently being declared.)
Fri, 2008-02-01 16:07
#22
The Globe's declaration on this subject is about as authoritative as the once-infamous(and now long-forgotten) Time magazine cover story that juxtaposed neurotic, anorexic sitcom character Ally McBeal with the faces of Susan B. Anthony, Betty Friedan, and Gloria Steinem to ask the question that was on no one's mind:
[b]Is Feminism Dead?[/b]
(the answers, for those Time editors and publishers who'd forgotten them, are: )
A)No.
B)Even though you paid that cute young Ginia Bellafonte to write an article asking if feminism was dead, it wasn't and it isn't, so you guys in the executive suite STILL have to pay your alimony checks each month.
Feminism didn't break up your marriages, media guys.
Your egos, your tempers and your pesky habit of fucking your secretaries did that.
[ 01 February 2008: Message edited by: Ken Burch ]
[ 01 February 2008: Message edited by: Ken Burch ]
[ 01 February 2008: Message edited by: Ken Burch ]
[ 01 February 2008: Message edited by: Ken Burch ]
[ 01 February 2008: Message edited by: Ken Burch ]
Thu, 2008-02-07 20:19
#23
In light of my readings on Babble, I do not think that feminism is dead. It has just suffered an appendicitis but now that its appendix has been removed, it leads a healthy life.
An example can be provided through the narrative of our fellow Babbler Remind whose solidarity with her gender has been lately limited to women of the upper echelons.
Remind stands with her gender, in the corporate world that is !
quote:
How does it feel standing in solidarity with your gender in the coporate world? Fucking good I hope, because progressive men, as evidenced here, are no allies with progressive women.As far as I am concerned you men have been spewing nothing but hate towards women, when you tell us not to stand with our gender, as they were only out for themselves and would do nothing for other women.. Remind in
[url=http://tinyurl.com/2qdnay]http://tinyurl.com/2qdnay[/url]
And here is Remind, not standing with her gender.. the poor, the victim of patriarchal polygamy:
quote:
I disagree with providing additional support, of any type, for an additional spouse, and I would be up in arms if such a thing was attempted here. -Remind in[url=http://tinyurl.com/2ry7as]http://tinyurl.com/2ry7as[/url]
Or is the difference between the women in the corporate world who merit Remind's solidarity and the women who are poor, victims of patriarchal polygamy and who do not merit Remind's solidarity is that difference of a nature or characteristic other nature than class?
Feminism is not dead. It is being infected by some people's hypocrisy, to be put it mildly.
[ 07 February 2008: Message edited by: adam stratton ]
Thu, 2008-02-07 21:29
#24
Pathetic.
Fri, 2008-02-08 03:51
#25
quote:
Pathetic. -martin dufresne
I understand your frustration for not having been able to refute my argument that feminism is being underminded by the hypocrisy of some, [b]exemple а l'appui ![/b]
[ 08 February 2008: Message edited by: adam stratton ]
Fri, 2008-02-08 05:26
#26
Adam, the feminism forum isn't here for you to attack women who post here. Stay out of this forum from now on.
Fri, 2008-02-08 05:51
#27
Fine Michelle. I am out of the feminism forum.
ETA: I did not attack "women". I exposed the hypocrisy of one woman and I challenge her to refute my argument.
[ 08 February 2008: Message edited by: adam stratton ]
Fri, 2008-02-08 07:19
#28
Le T
quote:
Our education system has produced children who can name Rosa Parks (as they should) but have no clue on the women's movement.
Rosa Parks wasn't part of the women's movement?
Fri, 2008-02-08 07:40
#29
Maysie
Le Tele, very good point.
I think the women's movement as defined at the time that Rosa Parks made history (there's a whole backstory to the Rosa Parks official story. I'll start a thread on it when I have a chance) did not include Rosa Parks and her action, and also did not include the implications her action had for Black women and Black men. I can say this with certainty, since her action and its resulting success isn't listed in the historical moments of the women's movement of the time.
But yes, absolutely, Rosa Parks was part of the women's movement, as far as I'm concerned.
Thanks for the reminder, Le Tele.
Fri, 2008-02-08 08:53
#30
Is there an age isolation problem as well ? I just sent in my membership to join the FFQ, and apperently only 10% of their membershp is under 30. I know there's also a conference this fall for women under 35 to get young feminist women from across canada together :[url=http://www.rebelles2008.org]S'unir pour etre rebelles[/url]
I also remember seeing this complaint on rabble...
Fri, 2008-02-08 09:10
#31
Young Quebec feminists are not all in the FFQ. Many of them work within Quйbec Solidaire or student associations, anti-sexist organizations too many to name. Others do front-line work in rape or DV crisis centres. Many are students in one of the three women's studies university departments - there is a meeting on "la relиve fйministe" in a few days at Universitй du Quйbec а Montrйal, for instance. The anarcha-feminist scene is another very active front with concerts, demos, publications; so are young feminists in art milieux and community organizations, newspapers, etc.
Keep your ear to the ground... [img]wink.gif" border="0[/img]
Fri, 2008-02-08 15:50
#32
I'm so looking forward to doing so you have no idea !!!! [img]biggrin.gif" border="0[/img] [img]biggrin.gif" border="0[/img] [img]biggrin.gif" border="0[/img]
Tue, 2008-02-12 18:12
#33
wow! Feminism sure is alive and kicking in our small town and it didn't take much for us to get it rolling.
Our bookclub is now a political group that is putting a proud feminist agenda into political action. We are doing quarterly public round tables at the library on topics like women in the sex trade, male violence/the war on women, the military/peace.
We are also starting a program in the local highschools with a film from the 70's(Visible Woman") and public displays about the Famous Five and person's day.
We realize that even though we have good instincts, we need more background on feminism, soo, we're trying to find someone to give a "Feminism 101" course for women in our group and then, hopefully, for people in the community
Feminism 101 should be on offer at every community education centre/college.
I think that the miss g project has developed a course for highschools that could be used in the general self improvement community education programs. It would help people to counteract this absurd media/popularculture propaganda that feminism has had to contend with for hundreds of years---even Mary Wolstencroft? was getting the same old "man hater" , unfeminine label---when was that? 1600 s?
We are also organizing a conference with other Liberal women's groups---we all need to learn how to view society through a female lens and collaberate to change how our party "does" gender balance.
I'm committed to getting this understanding embedded so deeply in the political/social process that we'll never be forced back---even if things fall apart. Social justice and feminism need to become inextricably linked in our society's concious, so that we
become clear that one can't exist without the other
I can't understand how anyone can think that gender justice is a done deal---even here in Canada. Over half of my university educated women friends have been raped, beaten or both---usually by guys in suits. Even at my age, the odd bozo feels that he can comment on my body and when I write about abortion, women's day, or any other so called "feminist" topic, the old boys go nuts---along with a more than a few women.
We so need open public discourse about feminist issues/thought daily in our communities.
Our group bought a buttonmaker, it helps get things moving along nicely.
with any luck, none of us will get shot.
my background is history, and it seems to me that true gender balance is the one thing that
humans have never tried---if we can somehow do this on a global scale, I truly believe that humanity will never look back and we will be able to create real justice in every area of life.
it's my dream and my life work---good thing I work for free, eh?
take care all.
congrats, Writer---it looks wonderful---we'll be reading it.
Tue, 2008-02-12 18:45
#34
Hey, I remember you! Welcome back morningstar!!
Wed, 2008-02-13 12:21
#35
remind
quote:
Originally posted by morningstar:
[b]wow! Feminism sure is alive and kicking in our small town and it didn't take much for us to get it rolling.
Our bookclub is now a political group that is putting a proud feminist agenda into political action. We are doing quarterly public round tables at the library on topics like women in the sex trade, male violence/the war on women, the military/peace.
We are also starting a program in the local highschools with a film from the 70's(Visible Woman") and public displays about the Famous Five and person's day.We realize that even though we have good instincts, we need more background on feminism, soo, we're trying to find someone to give a "Feminism 101" course for women in our group and then, hopefully, for people in the community
Feminism 101 should be on offer at every community education centre/college.
I think that the miss g project has developed a course for highschools that could be used in the general self improvement community education programs. It would help people to counteract this absurd media/popularculture propaganda that feminism has had to contend with for hundreds of years---even Mary Wolstencroft? was getting the same old "man hater" , unfeminine label---when was that? 1600 s?We are also organizing a conference with other Liberal women's groups---we all need to learn how to view society through a female lens and collaberate to change how our party "does" gender balance.
I'm committed to getting this understanding embedded so deeply in the political/social process that we'll never be forced back---even if things fall apart. Social justice and feminism need to become inextricably linked in our society's concious, so that we
become clear that one can't exist without the otherI can't understand how anyone can think that gender justice is a done deal---even here in Canada. Over half of my university educated women friends have been raped, beaten or both---usually by guys in suits. Even at my age, the odd bozo feels that he can comment on my body and when I write about abortion, women's day, or any other so called "feminist" topic, the old boys go nuts---along with a more than a few women.
We so need open public discourse about feminist issues/thought daily in our communities.
Our group bought a buttonmaker, it helps get things moving along nicely.
with any luck, none of us will get shot.my background is history, and it seems to me that true gender balance is the one thing that
humans have never tried---if we can somehow do this on a global scale, I truly believe that humanity will never look back and we will be able to create real justice in every area of life.it's my dream and my life work---good thing I work for free, eh?
take care all.
congrats, Writer---it looks wonderful---we'll be reading it.[/b]
Most excellent post and sharing morningstarm thank you for this!!!
Wed, 2008-02-13 12:31
#36
Hey morningstar
Here is a link to a feminist group in Vancouver. They are well connected across Canada thru CASAC which is Canadian Association of Sexual Assault Centres. They might be able to help you find some help.
[url=http://rapereliefshelter.bc.ca/]Feminist site[/url]
Wed, 2008-02-13 17:41
#37
laine lowe
If feminism was dead (as many on the right wished were so), why did so many rightfully and publicly complain when Harper made budget cuts and fiddled with program eligibility for the Status of Women Canada?
If feminism was dead, why did so many mobilize voices to counteract the right wing freeping for criminalizing abortion on CBC's misguided Facebook challenge?
If feminism was dead, why did so many progressive bloggers celebrate the 20th Anniversary of the SCC's decision to strike down Canada's abortion laws?
If feminism was dead, why are many mobilizing to ensure that Epp's private member's bill, "Unborn Victims of Violent Crime" be defeated in the HoC?
Feminism in Canada is alive and kicking much to the chagrin of the right wing.
Fri, 2008-02-22 08:03
#38
I wasn't sure where to post this, and didn't want to give it a thread of its own, so I guess this thread is good.
Maybe I'm just in that kind of mood today, but I [url=http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Evils%20in%20America/Feminism/feminism_is... across this site[/url] while googling simply "feminism" and it totally cracked me up. The scary music, the over-the-top rhetoric. Made me wonder whether it's a spoof. Probably not, though.
Fri, 2008-02-22 08:10
#39
[img]biggrin.gif" border="0[/img] [img]biggrin.gif" border="0[/img] I love the part where he injects "baking cookies" at home in a quote from the Bible (1st Timothy 5:14). The man must have a sweet tooth...
He is certainly clear about what fuels his passion:
quote:
"I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High."
[img]tongue.gif" border="0[/img]
Fri, 2008-02-22 08:11
#40
rural - Francesca
Wow! [img]rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img]
Fri, 2008-02-22 08:21
#41
remind
No, not a spoof, not in anyway shape or form. In fact, it made me throw up.
Fri, 2008-02-22 08:23
#42
Oh...sorry. Guess I should have put a warning on the link...
Fri, 2008-02-22 08:35
#43
remind
No worries Michelle, my stomach was already not doing well, sadly I have not even been able to tolerate my morning coffee needs, [img]frown.gif" border="0[/img] think I have a touch of the flu, or in early stages of getting it.
Just read a thread yesterday at FD, that was basically saying the same thing about feminists, from the same "Christian" viewpoint.
But hey, at least us feminists are not alone, the guy on the website took the opportunity to call a "Baptist" Church a follower of Satan too.
Sat, 2008-02-23 19:41
#44
Polly B
quote:
A feminine woman is a blessing to her husband. No man wants to be married to a Mack Truck. Let me also add here that a woman doesn't necessarily have to be slim to be feminine. Many big-boned women are feminine. Femininity is a state of mind more than anything. A feminine woman doesn't mind a man holding the door open for her, she welcomes it. A feminine woman doesn't even try to lift something bulky or heavy, she asks a strong man to lift it. A feminine woman makes a man feel like a real man because she requires his masculinity, strength, and courage.
Oh. Crap. I have not laughed so hard. I think I may have peed myself. I suppose that is not ladylike.
Sat, 2008-02-23 19:50
#45
quote:
No man wants to be married to a Mack Truck.
Mmm... actually, more than a few do. [url=http://www.stlouisdumptrucks.com/convoy9-04b_001.htm]The Rubber Duck[/url]
Fri, 2008-03-07 10:09
#46
Here is the Star's take on Feminism:
[url=http://www.thestar.com/article/309685]Where have all the feminists gone?[/url]
quote:
So, where have all the feminists gone?A quick way to answer that is to Google "feminist activity." You will find websites for international feminist organizations, feminist academic articles and feminist blogs. The mass movement of the 1970s has translated over to the Internet. Women are connecting with women (and feminist-minded men) through this new way of creating communities aimed at ending sexual discrimination.
The pulse of feminism is still beating strongly. But to find it, you have to listen a little harder.
Sun, 2008-03-16 15:55
#47
quote:
Originally posted by Polly Brandybuck:
[b]Oh. Crap. I have not laughed so hard. I think I may have peed myself. I suppose that is not ladylike.[/b]
Where does that gibberish come from? One of the links? I love tough women. It all goes back to kindergarten
"Why are you crying Timmy?"
"Becky hit me"
"But why?"
"She likes me"
On the other hand, moving heavy objects about the surface of the earth for women IS satisfing in a primal way.
Sun, 2008-03-16 16:36
#48
Polly B
quote:
Originally posted by minkepants:
[b]Where does that gibberish come from? [/b]
From me of course, though I didn't think it was gibberish at the time. Oh well.