Sexual assault "nothing serious" says perpertrator
Tue, 2008-03-04 05:29
#1
Sexual assault "nothing serious" says perpertrator
Tue, 2008-03-04 05:29
#2
This is about a month old, but I just read about it in a blog. I don't think I've seen it discussed here yet.
A grad student was unable to control himself in the presence of a female student and gave in to his need to kiss the top of her breasts while in an elevator. Poor baby boy, he was just giving in to his red-blooded male urges, now he's worried that his academic career may be adversely affected. [url=http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080130.wkiss0130/PP...“You can't expect all males to control themselves when the breasts are out,” he said.[/url]
[url=http://www.cbc.ca/canada/newfoundland-labrador/story/2008/01/30/elevator... CBC.ca[/url]
quote:
A St. John's university student has been sentenced to two months in jail after sexually assaulting a student in a campus elevator.
SNIP
Azarsina pushed a woman's arms aside and then kissed one of her breasts in an incident at Memorial University's main campus last September.
At the time, Azarsina admitted to the incident, but said it was "nothing serious."
[url=http://www.cbc.ca/canada/newfoundland-labrador/story/2008/01/17/elevator... the complainant's point of view:[/url]
quote:
Speaking outside the courtroom, the complainant said the event has changed her life. She said she has been prescribed sedatives, because she has trouble sleeping at night.
SNIP
"For you to say that what you did was no big deal, and you meant nothing of it, is possibly the most ignorant, arrogant thing that I have ever heard," she said.
Tue, 2008-03-04 05:39
#3
rural - Francesca
So many thoughts are running through my head...most of them involving hot pokers resutling in not so serious injuries
Tue, 2008-03-04 05:48
#4
quote:
Originally posted by Summer:
[url=http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080130.wkiss0130/PP...“You can't expect all males to control themselves when the breasts are out,” he said.[/url]
Yes, actually, we can, you misogynist pig. [img]mad.gif" border="0[/img] [Edited to make sure people know I was aiming that at the perpetrator, not at Summer! [img]biggrin.gif" border="0[/img] ]
I certainly hope he was expelled from the university so she doesn't have to see the prick on campus anymore! Poor poopsie, he might lose his academic career. Cry me a river. You don't deserve to go to university (or, at least, you don't deserve to be allowed to take classes ON campus) if you're going to sexually assault women while you're there.
[ 04 March 2008: Message edited by: Michelle ]
Tue, 2008-03-04 07:36
#5
[b]"...when the breasts are out"[/b] [img]rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img]
As if it was merely them the perp was 'relating' with and the woman was an incidental annoyance... [img]mad.gif" border="0[/img]
What next? an "Who let the breasts out?" Youdude musical 'essay'?
Tue, 2008-03-04 11:37
#6
I haven't seen any mention of expulsion, but he is restricted from going to certain buildings on campus as part of his sentence (or parole?).
This reminds me of an old babble thread on things men can do to make a women's environment feel safer. One of the suggestions was to give her space in the elevator and not to strike up a conversation. I recall some male babblers being very confused about why this would ever be a problem because our male babblers respect women and would never dream of assaulting them in an elevator. But this is why folks - because there are creeps out there that do think that a little exposed cleavage is an invitation of some sort.
Tue, 2008-03-04 13:40
#7
saga
[url=http://www.thespec.com/article/321130]http://www.thespec.com/article/321...
Police chief wants to know why 25-year-old accused of assaulting sex trade workers is free
The Hamilton Spectator
February 07, 2008
Susan Clairmont
He made "a mistake."
That is what accused serial rapist Najim Khairzad tells me.
Then he promises -- with a shrug of his shoulders and his palms turned skyward -- that he won't make the same mistake again.
Here is what Khairzad is charged with: three counts of choking, one count of assault, three counts of sexual assault, three counts of forced anal intercourse, one count of threatening and three counts of forcible confinement.
Six different women. All sex trade workers.
And those are just the ones police know about. Investigators say they believe there are more. Other victims who may be too afraid to come forward.
If so, they may be even less likely to talk now that Khairzad is out of jail.
Yes. Out. Since Monday. On $70,000 bail.
Even though police vehemently opposed his release. Even though the decision by a justice of the peace would -- and has -- drawn fire from local women's groups. Nearly two dozen of them.
......................
What was this judge thinking!!
Tue, 2008-03-04 13:49
#8
He made "a" mistake!? Gee, and he just keeps making them. Amazing how those "a" mistakes keep happening!
Tue, 2008-03-04 15:44
#9
This is just effing great, now he's probably going to start killing women so there isn't anyone to testify against him.
Tue, 2008-03-04 16:02
#10
About the story of that international student (Azarsina)...The story created a big storm on Persian weblogs. What a jerk, stupid nerd he was! But he has been properly punished for it. His life is completely ruined and his academic career is pretty much over.
Like most others on Persian discussion forums (who pretty much crucified the guy online), I too was really mad at his statements. However after reading a more complete version, I realized that the media were a little selective with his words, not to mention that he made his point really badly because of language problems. This is not to justify his stupid actions in any way, but to give some background on his statement that he did not think his actions "was serious".
As he has mentioned, if he had done such a thing in Iran he would have probably been slapped by the girl or her friends, or beaten up by police. If they would decide to charge him, his punishment would have been 50 lashes. But no prison term. "Sexual assault" in Iran is a term for rape, not kissing. This was probably the case in the west some 50 years ago too, before the feminist movement. Similarly, over there if you push someone to the ground, he would never think of charging you with Assault. he would likely just push you back. "Assault" in Iranian law means something really serious, like sending someone to hospital with serious injury. The concept that any touching could be assault or sexual assault is not immediately obvious to a new immigrant from a different culture.
That's why, IMO, it is a good idea to require international students to go through a short class at the beginning of their study (at their own expense) and to make them learn the legal and cultural requirements of their new environment.
Add to that the image of the west that is being projected to the world by Hollywood. The perception back in our home countries is that the west is a place with unlimited sexual freedoms. How many movies can you recall where an unwanted kiss has been shown as being punished just by a slap in the face, or even welcomed by the victim (I can think of a dozen right away)? I don't recall any show or movie that shows the fact that you may actually be thrown in jail for a kiss or touch.
Again, not to undermine the criminal stupidity of this Iranian guy, but to show what he was thinking. When he says "it wasn't serious", he probably meant that he did not think the girl would be so offended, or thought the worst that might happen to him would be a slap in the face. He could not likely imagine being charged and sent to jail. That's perhaps another explanation why the ratio of rape among immigrants in Europe (who are mostly from lower class) is rather high. They come to a new country where -as they have heard- sexual freedoms prevail, without fully understanding the responsibility that should come with these freedoms.
And as an Iranian-Canadian, I would like to apologize for what Farhood Azarsina did. Hope they kick his butt back to Iran (which they most likely will).
Tue, 2008-03-04 16:18
#11
quote:
Originally posted by Summer:
[b]I haven't seen any mention of expulsion, but he is restricted from going to certain buildings on campus as part of his sentence (or parole?).
[/b]
IIRC, the university has suspended him for one year. Press reports implied that he was on student visa here. Considering that Canadian student visas for Iranians must be renewed on a yearly basis, this is probably equal to an expulsion order because Immigration Canada would never renew his student visa. of course, if the assumption about his being a visa student is correct.
Also as a sexual convict, he will not be able to enter the US or any European countries. So his (previously bright) academic career is pretty much over. The publicity around this story will also create lots of problems for him back in Iran.
A moment of stupidity can destroy one's life forever.
[ 04 March 2008: Message edited by: sanizadeh ]
Tue, 2008-03-04 16:24
#12
Its nice to know you aren't really blaming the woman who was assaulted. It is in fact our decadent western culture that he didn't understand. I don't believe for a minute that any Iranian woman would have considered this anything except an outrageous sexual assault.
It is not a moment of stupidity it is a criminal offence. I'll let the women on this forum explain how your comments on the women's movement in your other post were paternalistic .
Tue, 2008-03-04 16:26
#13
quote:
Originally posted by sanizadeh:
[b]Like most others on Persian discussion forums (who pretty much crucified the guy online), I too was really mad at his statements. However after reading a more complete version, I realized that the media were a little selective with his words, not to mention that he made his point really badly because of language problems. [/b]
I was going to say that too, about Martin's comments about "the breasts". It is quite common for people with ESL to mix up their articles, and when I read his statement, I heard it in a Persian ESL accent (which I have gotten quite used to hearing). So I agree that him saying "the breasts" instead of "their" or "her" breasts is just a language thing.
But the sentiment behind the statement even had he used the proper article is beyond belief. Men can't help themselves when women show their breasts? I don't think so, buddy.
And sanizadeh, I completely believe you on the reactions you've been seeing to this story. I've met many Iranian men in the past decade through a family connection, and I can't imagine any of them even DREAMING of doing such a thing to even women of their acquaintence, much less strange women. While I think you are right about a much different judicial culture when it comes to what kind of touch is legal and what isn't (and what kind of punishments are meted out), it's my experience that it's also a pretty strong cultural taboo in general for a man to touch a woman he is not in a relationship with or related to that could be considered sexual or flirtatious. I might be wrong about that, but that's my experience. So I can just imagine the reactions you've been seeing! [img]smile.gif" border="0[/img]
I also totally understand what you're saying about the guy's statement, in the context of his past experience in a completely different judicial system. It's important to take that into account when judging his confusion over how serious it was. I guess he knows now!
(Although, I don't know about you, but I think I'd rather go to jail for a couple of months than endure 50 lashes! Of course, that depends on whether the jail is a Canadian or Iranian jail. [img]biggrin.gif" border="0[/img] )
Do you want him deported? I'm not sure I do. I mean, if they guy's just here on a student visa, then okay, I can see your point. But if he's in danger back home (or will be because of this) then I wouldn't want to see him deported.
Tue, 2008-03-04 16:26
#14
quote:
Originally posted by kropotkin1951:
[b]Its nice to know you aren't really blaming the woman who was assaulted. It is in fact our decadent western culture that he didn't understand. I don't believe for a minute that any Iranian woman would have considered this anything except an outrageous sexual assault.It is not a moment of stupidity it is a criminal offence. I'll let the women on this forum explain how your comments on the women's movement in your other post were paternalistic .[/b]
You did not read the whole post that I wrote, did you?
Of course what he did was criminal. that's why he was rightly sent to jail. That, IMO, he acted out of stupidity does not make it less criminal.
What did I say about the feminist movement that you found offensive?
[ 04 March 2008: Message edited by: sanizadeh ]
Tue, 2008-03-04 16:31
#15
All right guys, let's not fight about this.
First of all, I don't think sanizadeh's post was paternalistic. He was trying to explain some of the language barriers and "culture shock" that people experience when they come to a new country with completely different rules. And about the false perceptions that they might have of the west and what is acceptable here and what is not. I think he denounced the guy's actions enough for us to understand that he's not excusing anything.
Tue, 2008-03-04 16:31
#16
I read both your posts in their entirety.
Tue, 2008-03-04 16:36
#17
quote:
Originally posted by kropotkin1951:
[b]I read both your posts in their entirety.[/b]
Well I thought my point was clear. The fact that now unwanted touching or kissing is considered an assault, is a great achievement resulting from the feminist movement of the last few decades in the west. I don't understand how this would be offensive toward women's movement.
And the fact that there has not been a strong feminist movement back in Iran and the Middle east has contributed to the problems as shown in Azarsina's case. That's why we need strong feminist movements in the Middle East.
Tue, 2008-03-04 16:37
#18
quote:
Originally posted by Michelle:
[b]All right guys, let's not fight about this.First of all, I don't think sanizadeh's post was paternalistic. He was trying to explain some of the language barriers and "culture shock" that people experience when they come to a new country with completely different rules. And about the false perceptions that they might have of the west and what is acceptable here and what is not. I think he denounced the guy's actions enough for us to understand that he's not excusing anything.[/b]
Thanks. You pretty much summed up what I was trying to say. Obviously I still have a language problem!
Tue, 2008-03-04 16:44
#19
Sorry even though sanizadeh is sincere the idea that this guy would assault a woman because of a cultural mistake is far fetched. Did he only arrive in the country the day before he committed this crime?. And again no Iranian woman would consider this anything but assault so what are women in Canada?
Tue, 2008-03-04 16:47
#20
quote:
Originally posted by kropotkin1951:
[b]Sorry even though sanizadeh is sincere the idea that this guy would assault a woman because of a cultural mistake is far fetched. Did he only arrive in the country the day before he committed this crime?. And again no Iranian woman would consider this anything but assault so what are women in Canada?[/b]
I meant his statement that it was "nothing serious" was a cultural mistake. His action was undoubtedly criminal. I am still not sure how he got it into his head to do such a horrible thing. He seems to be smart enough and his academic resume is pretty impressive. Could have gone crazy from too much studying [img]smile.gif" border="0[/img]
Tue, 2008-03-04 16:52
#21
And for further clarification, I don't believe any one, in any culture, anywhere in the world would commit a sexual assault as a result of any "cultural mistake". Sexual assault is a crime in every culture. The cultural misunderstanding may contribute to the perpetrator's view of how serious his actions were, but he definitely knows that he has done wrong.
Tue, 2008-03-04 17:13
#22
Can we de-racialize this a little? I mean, would we be overly surprised if a jock of Euro-Canadian origin from Mississauga or Quйbec had done the same and dismissed his assault as not serious and induced by a low-cut dress or whatever? (Judges give White assaulters a pass all the time for such reasons.) Indeed, is it possible we are ratcheting up the indignation because of Azarsina's origin?
[ 04 March 2008: Message edited by: martin dufresne ]
Tue, 2008-03-04 17:20
#23
No, I don't think that's possible. In fact, people have been saying the exact opposite. Please read the posts before accusing people of racism, okay? That sort of escalation is not welcome in this discussion.
[ 04 March 2008: Message edited by: Michelle ]
Tue, 2008-03-04 17:41
#24
I have had some possibly relevant experiences. The men involved were truly surprised at my reaction. They didn't realize that I'd be offended or unwilling or frightened. They expected me, as a "western women", to respond positively. I suspect their ideas of "western" culture and mores came from tv and movies. There really should be some kind of cultural orientation - for everyone's sake. I don't know whether something like this was an issue in this particular case or not.
ETA: But having reread some of sanizadeh's comments, maybe I'm wrong about this.
[ 04 March 2008: Message edited by: RosaL ]
Tue, 2008-03-04 17:43
#25
I [b]didn't [/b]accuse people of racism. I think we agree that this could very well have happened with a Euro-Canadian assaulter. I am questioning, along with most I agree, the focus on a cultural alibi. The discussion of punishment in Iran led us on a side route, hence my request for deracialization. (I agree it wasn't clearly stated.)
Tue, 2008-03-04 17:43
#26
I think you're probably right.