The Impossibility of Race.
Sat, 2008-03-08 20:12
#1
The Impossibility of Race.
Sat, 2008-03-08 20:12
#2
This is something interesting I found last week, when I was reading up on whether my Pictish ancestors were in fact Celts after all. (looks like we still don't know) The groups described are our common paternal Y and maternal Mitochondrial lineages coming out of Africa fifty-sixty thousand years back. Now do these ancient bloodlines resemble any of the usual descriptions of race to anyone, by any standard?
[url=http://www.scs.uiuc.edu/~mcdonald/WorldHaplogroupsMaps.pdf]http://www.sc...
These measures are flawed too in that all our ancestors from our other parents lineages remain invisible, and they too can be used to exentuate artificial differences (albiet newer more complicated ones) rather than our 99.99% similarities if not careful. But it can provide some more tangeable measures that highlight how far old notions of race stray from modern science. The amazing thing is the idea still retains some currency in academia.
[ 08 March 2008: Message edited by: Erik Redburn ]
Wed, 2008-03-12 08:44
#3
I don't think you'll find your answer at your link. The legend has this note on it:
quote:
The data in this map is supposed to represent the situation before the recent European expansion
beginning about 1500 AD.
Perhaps a map that'd pre-date roman conquest would provide a more conclusive answer, atleast as far as bloodlines would go.
When you say "my Pictish ancestors were in fact Celts after all"... Are you going for cultural ties, or just descended from the same people? I beleive Celtic bloodlines and culture extended into what would have been pictish territory pre-BC, so if I was to wager a guess... I'd say yes, they share a common bloodline.
The problem with any of this is the Pictish (along with most Celtic cultures) lack a written language and therefore have no history written in their own words... We're reliant on the Roman/Greek history for the region, and the Romans pretty much branded any celt as a barbarian regardless.
If you do find more info, please share.
Wed, 2008-03-12 09:15
#4
ElizaQ
Not sure if this is relevant but I found this info that talks about haplo-groups and seems to have more info (though broad) that predates 1500Ad.
[url=http://www.dnaheritage.com/masterclass2.asp]http://www.dnaheritage.com/m...
If found it because the initial post reminded me about something I read last year about some DNA work done in Britain that ended up showing, much to some peoples surprise, that more peoples bloodlines (DNA wise) were connected to the Basque region of Spain then the more Northern European Celtic peoples that has been the common way of thinking.
[url=http://tinyurl.com/2n5zcf]Basque-ing in Wales[/url]
Wed, 2008-03-12 10:25
#5
quote:
that more peoples bloodlines (DNA wise) were connected to the Basque region of Spain then the more Northern European Celtic peoples that has been the common way of thinking.
I thought Celtic people followed the same R1B bloodline that came from the Basque region (very good link btw). Might be better to define the question as 'Celtic and Pictish descended from the same bloodline' as opposed to saying that the Pictish came from the Celtic bloodline.
From Eliza's link:
quote:
- Haplogroup R1b is common on the western Atlantic coast as far as Scotland.
I wonder if the R1b group is prominent in Celtic people? I sorta assumed it was, but I shouldn't be assuming. Celtic peoples were subjegated in alot of cases, I'm not sure how far Western Europe would have deviated (as far as the R1b line) from 0 ad to present.