Fitna the Movie - Hate Propaganda from the Netherlands

Thanks for the link.
Strong movie; but there has been many clips like that before. You can just search the youtube.

[img]http://www.jumpstation.ca/recroom/comedy/python/images/twit2.gif[/img]

Martin, the problem is that the Dutch are not only fundamentalists of free speech in terms of defending racist shitheads like Wilders - he is laughing his head off as progressive Dutch generally feel the need to defend his "film" (aka hate propaganda), though they find it vile.

Though I suspect that anywhere in formerly Nazi-occupied Europe, if he said the same things about "Jews", he'd immediately be charged with hate speech.

The question of hate speech against religions vs against religious minorities is not necessarily an easy one for antiracists and progressives. As a feminist, I'm dead-set against the more fundamentalist forms of all three Abrahamic monotheisms (though I know progressive and pro-women Jews, Christians and Muslims). But I think essentialising "Muslims" and defining people from Middle Eastern, North African, Indonesian, South Asian etc backgrounds according to what one assumes they think and believe is racism.

Years ago, I remember being shocked by a bunch of teens screaming "Jew" at a Chassidic man crossing the street at a corner and deliberately almost hitting him. My strong dislike of the attitude towards women amongs Haredi is on a very different level. Idem a bunch of women (dressed as "secretaries", some wearing high heels) sniggering at a woman wearing black full hijab (I think she was a Shiite from South Lebanon).

I think it might be useful to be able to discuss our freedom to speak out against all oppressive forms of religion while respecting freedom of conscience and above all defending people who are racialised.

As an atheist of Catholic background, I confess (sorry!) that I find very funny Wilders' stuff about Islam, while he is silent on the deep misogyny of the Catholic Church, not only in times past, but in contemporary Europe. The most reactionary antiwoman and antigay government anywhere in or near Europe in recent years was that of the hate-filled Polish twins...

It seems clear that singling out one monotheistic religion for such crap when it happens to be a faith common among exploited and marginalised immigrant workers can be described as racism, little use as I have for any patriarchal religion.

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Originally posted by martin dufresne:
[b]I am afraid this is of another order, and suspect it will have many times the impact of the Danish hate cartoons.
[url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7317506.stm]BBC - Dutch MP posts Islam film on Web[/url]
[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/03/27/AR200803... Post - Online - A Violent View of Islam[/url]

Dumb, Catholic upper-class twit.
Maybe this will go some way in uniting sensible people against Islam-bashing war and hate mongers.

[ 27 March 2008: Message edited by: martin dufresne ][/b]

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If this film "causes" (what a ridiculous notion) more violence by Muslims, that is the fault of those acting violently, not the fault of Geert Wilders. Don't know much about him, but from the descriptions above, he sounds like a hypocritical Catholic right-winger. Doesn't mean he can "cause" people to be violent with a film.

Muslim people have brains and can think for themselves. Progressive believers in Islam will say they are offended, write about it, protest etc.

[url=http://www.themoviefitna.com/]Fitna[/url]

I have decided to include a link to the short film, [i]Fitna[/i]. I don't think I would be able to critque the film if I did not see it.

I did see [i]Fitna[/i] and it is powerful! Geert Wilders uses the words of Muslims themselves to tell his story of "Islamisation"--of Muslims using passages from the Koran to deal with "infidels" such as Christians, Jews, and non-believers. He shows video and audio clips of Muslim imams and other believers who speak aginst those who do not accept Allah. Superimposed are video and still images of terrorist attacks on 9/11 and in the UK, Spain, the Middle East, and east Africa--attacks that Wilders suggests were done by Muslims who accept all the passages of the Koran including the ones that Wilders finds offensive. Wilders includes newspaper headlines and quotes to reinforce the message that Muslims want to take over the Netherlands, Europe, and the world.

Had Geert Wilders made a 17 minute film of himself talking about the threat of Islam, I would have seen it as shallow propaganda from a very shallow self-centred man. Instead, he uses the words and images of those who speak on behalf of Islam. He has created very deep-thinking propaganda.

[i]Fitna[/i] will be seen as being offensive to Muslims. Wilders may suggest that those who should be blamed for his film are the Muslims in his film who spoke against the "infidels."

Does the film also include excerpt from the Qu'ran prohibiting the killing of prisoners and advocating peaceful relations with Jews and other religious sects?