Redefining "Happily Ever After"
Thu, 2008-07-24 10:23
#1
Redefining "Happily Ever After"
Thu, 2008-07-24 10:23
#2
[url=http://www.feministing.com/archives/009893.html]From Feministing.[/url]
Thu, 2008-07-24 12:11
#3
Timebandit
I think it's high time women started thinking about their options rather than succumbing to the happily ever after scenarios we're brainwashed with in our childhood.
I didn't spend much time being single in my 30s -- the blond guy and I got together near the end of my 31st year. However, our sequentially challenged life - I bought a house, we met, got pregnant, continued courtship, moved in, got married later on - was hard for some of our older family members to absorb without judgement. It was all the right order for us, which is the only thing that counts anyway.
I've been very clear with my wild girls that the fairy tale princesses have got it all wrong - don't buy into the rescue scenarios, it's better to be able to take care of yourself.
Thu, 2008-07-24 14:22
#4
Maysie
I think I've had a very atypical experience, because despite whatever "happy ever after" stories I read and internalized as a kid (and rom-coms remain one of my no-brainer escapisms to this day) the lives of the women in my life were always about being strong and independent.
My maternal grandmother got divorced in the late 1950s or early 1960s, before I was born and way before divorce became more commonplace. My mom got divorced in 1984, and I saw her struggle during my teen years and early adulthood. Neither of them ever taught me or my sister the "man will take care of you" crappola, nor have they ever done the "why don't you get married and have kids" thing, so we never did.
I found that I could see the sappy stories, both as a child and as an adult, as "stories" only, and not reflective of the true reality that I live in day to day. I think we can maybe give kids these days more credit for getting that, but I'm not a parent so what do I know? [img]smile.gif" border="0[/img]
And yes, I cry at sappy rom coms, okay! There, I said it. Please don't take away my feminist card! [img]tongue.gif" border="0[/img]
Thu, 2008-07-24 15:00
#5
ElizaQ
Would somebody be able to give a brief jist of what this video says? I'm really interested but alas cannot watch it.
Thu, 2008-07-24 15:29
#6
N.Beltov
The video is a few minutes long. It consists of a series - say 10 or so - of 30ish women who briefly talk about: being single in positive terms; the non-necessity of getting married as a precondition for success; and so on. There are a few remarks that help put the rest into context. It begins in an amusing sort of way with a mother earnestly reading a section from [i]Cinderella[/i] about a Prince (well, you know the rest, as do we all) to her young daughter. It's brief and upbeat.
Thu, 2008-07-24 19:44
#7
quote:
Originally posted by N.Beltov:
[b]The video is a few minutes long. It consists of a series - say 10 or so - of 30ish women who briefly talk about: being single in positive terms; the non-necessity of getting married as a precondition for success; and so on. There are a few remarks that help put the rest into context. It begins in an amusing sort of way with a mother earnestly reading a section from [i]Cinderella[/i] about a Prince (well, you know the rest, as do we all) to her young daughter. It's brief and upbeat.[/b]
Where I found it lacking is that it talked a lot about being single OR getting married. I know lots of people, including some of the strongest feminists I know, who are quite happy with being neither single nor married. I wouldn't think their relationships should be considered as somehow less valid than marriages, nor do I think they'd be better off being single. Their "happily ever after" doesn't necessarily include being single and wealthy enough to take an international vacation every year any more than it includes marriage to a prince.
That video implied to me that single = freedom, marriage = the bad old days of patriarchy, and there is no other relationship status worth mentioning. I don't think any of that is necessarily true.
Thu, 2008-07-24 19:55
#8
Timebandit
quote:
I found that I could see the sappy stories, both as a child and as an adult, as "stories" only, and not reflective of the true reality that I live in day to day. I think we can maybe give kids these days more credit for getting that, but I'm not a parent so what do I know?And yes, I cry at sappy rom coms, okay! There, I said it. Please don't take away my feminist card!
Yeah, so do I. However, a lot of women grow up with those stories and nothing but.
Humans absorb patterns. If this is the single pattern of success for a female that you have -- mum and in traditional roles, you watch all the Disney princess movies and straight to video releases, etc and so forth, you're going to have, deep down, some unrealistic expectations. Even if you can look around and see other women doing it differently, some women still feel like they didn't get happily ever after if prince whatsisface doesn't swoop in and take them away from all this.
Where do all the bridezillas come from? That desire for the fairy tale, at least for one day, where do they get that? We feed girls the pattern from the time they are wee. Stories are not just stories. I know this as a writer and as a filmmaker. Stories are patterns and we identify with them and fit them into our psyches in the most amazing (and unconscious) ways.
My family didn't have independent female role models for the most part. My one grandmother was widowed in her late 50s and worked as a night manager at a hotel. She has been pretty darned independent, but some of the other women around us felt sorry for her -- I don't, she's a cool human and at 92 has outlived most of them. She would have liked going into business without depending on her husband earlier in life, but she got married instead.
Anyway, for me there was a pull between what was expected of me as a female child by some and what was expected of me by my father and grandfather. Fortunately, they got it. My grandfather was the driving force for me to go get an education, and my father recognized too much of himself in me to think I could do the traditional thing. So I was molded differently than the other girls.
It's nice to hear other women talk about the strong female role models they've had in their lives. Wish I'd had more. Fortunately for me, there were two patriarchal males who gave me what I needed in the absence.
Thu, 2008-07-24 20:00
#9
Timebandit
quote:
Originally posted by Gir Draxon:
[b]Where I found it lacking is that it talked a lot about being single OR getting married. I know lots of people, including some of the strongest feminists I know, who are quite happy with being neither single nor married. I wouldn't think their relationships should be considered as somehow less valid than marriages, nor do I think they'd be better off being single. Their "happily ever after" doesn't necessarily include being single and wealthy enough to take an international vacation every year any more than it includes marriage to a prince.
That video implied to me that single = freedom, marriage = the bad old days of patriarchy, and there is no other relationship status worth mentioning. I don't think any of that is necessarily true.[/b]
Well, I suppose it depends on how you define marriage. I define marriage as co-habiting with a partner in a long-term romantic relationship. It has little to do with weddings.
I have friends who have been cohabiting for nearly 15 years with no end in sight and share a house, cat and son. They haven't had a wedding, but they're as married as any other couple I know.
The point the women in the video were making is that your happiness should not be dependent on having a man to look after you. It's quite possible to not strive after the relationship and family that all the articles tell us we're supposed to need and still be happy in yourself.
Fri, 2008-07-25 07:50
#10
I'm 25 and seemingly at a stage where everyone around me is deciding to get married and buy homes and on at least a weekly basis I'm hearing things like "When are you getting your ring?" "You're wasting your money by renting" and a half dozen other tiny annoyances that make me go insane. I've even noticed that my friends go out of their way to buy housewarming gifts for one another when they purchase a home ... but nope ... renting a new apartment is hardly gift-worthy (not that I wanted, or expected one, it's just a strange little fact that seems to be occuring among friends.)
It's a strange thing to be in a six-year committed relationship, but to be in no way close to getting married. People judge, making it seem as though I'm "unsure" about my partner, or have a different level of committment, when in fact I'd argue that our relationship is healthier than many others I know ... despite the lack of a ring on my finger.
Fri, 2008-07-25 08:07
#11
quote:
Originally posted by jrose:
[b]I'm 25 and seemingly at a stage where everyone around me is deciding to get married and buy homes and on at least a weekly basis I'm hearing things like "When are you getting your ring?" "You're wasting your money by renting" and a half dozen other tiny annoyances that make me go insane. I've even noticed that my friends go out of their way to buy housewarming gifts for one another when they purchase a home ... but nope ... renting a new apartment is hardly gift-worthy (not that I wanted, or expected one, it's just a strange little fact that seems to be occuring among friends.)It's a strange thing to be in a six-year committed relationship, but to be in no way close to getting married. People judge, making it seem as though I'm "unsure" about my partner, or have a different level of committment, when in fact I'd argue that our relationship is healthier than many others I know ... despite the lack of a ring on my finger.[/b]
JRose - I have gotten housewarming presents in new apartments - that is too bad they didn't feel the need to do that. Your post made me think of a sex and they city episode where Carrie's shoes get stolen at a either a wedding or baby shower. When she asks the hostess to intervene or replace them, the hostess balks at the cost, saying she has more important things (family) to spend money on then shoes. Carrie ends up sending her a card inviting letting her know that she is celebrating being Single and is registered at that particular shoe store. The episode's theme is the lack of shower-type events for people willfully staying single and renting. Isn't her life worth celebrating - she decides.
(good episode - notwithstanding the materialism of wanting $400 shoes).
Anyways, I am like timebandit. I have found the love of my life -but we are doing things in the "wrong" order. currently looking for a house and there is no ring on my finger! My mother keeps asking "when are you going to make it official". The implication is that I am not protecting myself or that he will somehow be magically more trustworthy if we are married. Nevermind the fact that I am financially independant and have been purposely planning on this independance since about age 8. After watching my own mother, I swore from a young age that I would be dependant on no man.
Fri, 2008-07-25 10:45
#12
Maybe we need some good "happier ever after divorce" stories to balance the crap from submission/marriage merchants. Why is it that we men barely experience such pressures? Perhaps because our mothers know patriarchy will help us fend for ourselves if we give it half a try.
Fri, 2008-07-25 11:08
#13
remind
quote:
Originally posted by jrose:
[b]...People judge, making it seem as though I'm "unsure" about my partner, or have a different level of committment, when in fact I'd argue that our relationship is healthier than many others I know ... despite the lack of a ring on my finger.[/b]
Maybe they want you to be as equally as unhappy as they are? [img]wink.gif" border="0[/img]
Fri, 2008-07-25 11:22
#14
Maysie
Ha! Good one, remind.
I'm surprised that an institution with a 50% failure rate is [b]still![/b] given such credibility. Or maybe I shouldn't be, it could be that it's all business now, and it's a huge and thriving one.
Did anyone see The Wedding Planner, hideous movie with JLo and Matthew I-am-a-Robot McConaughey? (I own it, okay? Shut up! [img]smile.gif" border="0[/img] )
Right after the first wedding we see JLo plan, she's back at the office, and all the workers there have an ongoing betting pool of how long the couple will stay married based on their wedding song (Olivia Newton John's "I Honestly Love You" was a 14-monther. Teehee.). That was the one cynical part of that movie, very excellent.
P.S. I keep typing "weeding" instead of "wedding", what can that possibly mean? Maybe that I'd prefer weeding over a wedding? I would, actually, and I hate gardening. [img]biggrin.gif" border="0[/img]
Fri, 2008-07-25 11:43
#15
I didn't see The Wedding Planner, but I did see The Wedding Crashers. Yes, Owen Wilson doing dorky comedy IS a guilty pleasure of mine. [img]smile.gif" border="0[/img]
Fri, 2008-07-25 12:03
#16
ElizaQ
This is a great thread. Thanks for the synopsis of the video.
BCG, I tear up at Rom-Coms too!
I've been thinking a lot about my life in reference to some of the comments. I did and still do have strong women in my family as role models in my family some married for a long time, some single, some divorced, heck just a mixture. Running through it all though was the basic idea that it didn't matter whatever I chose or anyone else chose. It's always just been a be who you are and success is determined by how you determine success. My parents always said we just want you to be happy and it's up to you to determine what that is and means to you. So I never felt any pressure to follow some fantasy story plot line.
I think I realized around age 20 or so that living my life as some sort of waiting game a sort of this is what I will do until the 'right guy' comes along wasn't for me. I remember friends at the time who actually thought of things that way.
I always just did what I wanted to do and if a guy fit in with that then fine, if not then fine.
When I hit my thirties and then mid-thirties I will admit I did go through a bit of angsty time about the whole thing. Without going into sordid detail I did work through it and although I couldn't watch the video I expect that my conclusions coming out of the other side or it would have been pretty similar to some of what the women expressed on it. I was totally happy and content with the prospect of living my life under my own definitions.
Then of course life steps in and blam before I knew it I found myself married and very quickly at that. The thing is though I don't think that would have happened if I hadn't been in that content place. He said that was one of the initial attractions. He was much the same way. We chose to become partners in the truest sense of the word and it was surprisingly easy because by then I did know and a deep level who I was and what I wanted out of life. Looking back with some hindsight I actually did get my 'romantic' story and 'my knight in shining armor' with some comedy thrown in for good measure. [img]smile.gif" border="0[/img] It was just and still is minus the whole 'savior' element if that makes sense.
Fri, 2008-07-25 12:42
#17
To me, "happily ever after" requires an end point, a final state of affairs, a specific state of being toward which our energies should be directed, in some persistent, myopic manner. That, frankly, is such a large crock! The myths and fairy tales which are suppose to be the guiding lights of our lives don't need to be redefined, they need to be abandoned with glee, jettisoned with jubilation. My life, my relationships, my understanding of myself, what I want/need/desire for myself, are ever changing. I wonder about our general opposition to what is expected of us: I can only do things in a "correct order" or in an "incorrect order" if I think there should be some "order" at all and if I think that the events in my life are discrete instances all leading toward...something...what? Happily ever after the right way or the out of order way? Life, it seems to me, is not linear. It is not a progression toward a specific goal, except, perhaps, death. It is dynamic, unfolding, doubling over on itself. It spins out of control at the same moment that it seems to spin in place. Happily ever after? I don't want to be "after". I want to be now.
Fri, 2008-07-25 13:44
#18
remind
Excellent post wendy, and I could not agree more.
I also have come to realize that those who believe in "happily ever after", take it real personally when actual "life" comes calling, as if they should be immune to all life and living entails.
Fri, 2008-07-25 14:19
#19
Timebandit
quote:
Originally posted by martin dufresne:
[b]Maybe we need some good "happier ever after divorce" stories to balance the crap from submission/marriage merchants. Why is it that we men barely experience such pressures? Perhaps because our mothers know patriarchy will help us fend for ourselves if we give it half a try.[/b]
Ye gads, this sort of negativity irritates me! Marriage and submission are not synonymous.
Here's some balance for you. My first marriage (when I was in my early 20s) was miserable. My ex was self-absorbed and resented many of my academic and artistic accomplishments -- funnily, what attracted him to me made him dislike me in the end.
Leaving was very difficult for me, as I don't like to hurt someone else and admitting failure in a marriage my parents opposed was crushing. However, the day he asked me to give up writing was the day I decided self-preservation should win out.
I spent some time feeling utterly crappy, being broke and stressed out but ultimately independent. It wasn't any easy space to be in, at first, but it was good for me. I like to say that I got out with my sanity (disputable) as I left with little else. I learned to be happy alone.
The up side is that, like ElizaQ, in becoming happy and comfortable with myself it became possible to have the relationship -- AND MARRIAGE -- that I originally wanted. True partnership. Marriage, when it's done right, isn't about submission, it's about teamwork and being better together than you are on your own. Or so I find. No need to throw the baby out with the bathwater. [img]wink.gif" border="0[/img]
Fri, 2008-07-25 15:07
#20
If you live together for an extended period, dosen't the government see you as married anyway?
Fri, 2008-07-25 18:13
#21
quote:
Originally posted by CMOT Dibbler:
[b]If you live together for an extended period, dosen't the government see you as married anyway?[/b]
That depends for what purpose, and where you live.
The federal government gives you CPP widow's pension if you have lived together for as short a time as one year.
Ontario never gives you an equal share of the common assets even if you live together 25 years.
quote:
Originally posted by Timebandit:
[b]I have friends who have been cohabiting for nearly 15 years with no end in sight and share a house, cat and son. They haven't had a wedding, but they're as married as any other couple I know.[/b]
Perhaps so, in your province. Some provinces give common-law spouses property rights. In Ontario, if she has a job with no private pension plan, and he has a pension plan worth $100,000 which she will get none of if they separate, they are [b]not[/b] "as married as any other couple."
quote:
Originally posted by jrose:
[b]It's a strange thing to be in a six-year committed relationship, but to be in no way close to getting married. People judge, making it seem as though I'm "unsure" about my partner, or have a different level of committment, when in fact I'd argue that our relationship is healthier than many others I know ... despite the lack of a ring on my finger.[/b]
Great -- assuming yours is not the common case where you spend your paycheque on daily necessities, while he is the one with the computer, car, RRSPs, and pension plan, none of which you have a claim on. Unless you put some money into his computer or car.
[ 25 July 2008: Message edited by: Wilf Day ]
Fri, 2008-07-25 21:18
#22
Timebandit
You bring up some excellent points -- and I have made some of them to my friend. She still feels that a wedding is unnecessary. Personally, I like the formal legal commitment of both parties to the relationship in marriage.
My point, when I used the couple in question as an example, was that they are in a relationship that is structured very like a marriage, all that is missing is the legal end. Married in a social sense, perhaps?
Mon, 2008-08-11 08:44
#23
[url=http://www.shamelessmag.com/blog/2008/08/the-married-feminist-coming-soo... great post [/url]from Shameless's editor, Stacy May regarding her feelings about her upcoming wedding. "The Married Feminist."
Mon, 2008-08-11 09:05
#24
quote:
Originally posted by jrose:
[b][url=http://www.shamelessmag.com/blog/2008/08/the-married-feminist-coming-soo... great post [/url]from Shameless's editor, Stacy May regarding her feelings about her upcoming wedding. "The Married Feminist."[/b]
That was a great read. I am currently trying to get up the courage to elope rather than have a wedding. Being a bit of an introvert - the idea of being on "display" and spending such a crazy amount of money scares me. But, i know my family will be annoyed.
Timebandit and ElizaQ and Wendy made some great points about the need to find oneself prior to committing to marriage. I think a lot of the problems occur (and thankfully this is changing somewhat) when girls and young women are taught that they need to find a man and that that is the goal - when they should be discovering what it is they want to do with their lives, what makes them happy, what are their talents, etc. If one is looking for a relationship to define themselves or to find happiness, the relationship will be crappy for both parties involved.
When you stop "looking" and develop that calming sense of self-awareness, contentment and purpose, you can find true love and partnership, where respect is paramount. (This is not to say that we ever stop "finding ourselves" or growing throughout life).
I liked how in the piece jrose linked to, they were defining their marriage and actual wedding on their terms and in an attitude of mutual respect and partnership.
Mon, 2008-08-11 09:30
#25
Timebandit
You don't have to spend a lot of money on a wedding. The blond guy and I spent under $1000. My dress was second-hand and unfussy, the reception was in my mum's back yard, we had hamburgers and saskatoon pie with family and my MIL and SIL made a traditional Norwegian wedding cake for us. Later, other guest arrived and we had a low-key cocktail party that carried on until the wee hours. It was laid back and a lot of fun. No wacky toasts, masters of ceremony, garter or bouquet throwing or any of that nonsense. Several people told us it was the best wedding they'd ever been to.
Do your own thing, Ghislaine. Choose the meaningful pieces and stick with them.
Mon, 2008-08-11 09:42
#26
It sounds as close to perfect as possible, Timebandit.
Yes, Ghislaine, be true to yourself, and those who love you will continue to love you.
Mon, 2008-08-11 09:52
#27
Here is an interesting blog about [url=http://1kwedding.com/]a couple's planning of their wedding[/url]. While they are retaining most of the traditional parts of this ritual, their cost saving efforts are interesting. I, admittedly, have not read most of the blog, so I may be linking you to something worthwhile. Or not.
Mon, 2008-08-11 09:58
#28
quote:
Originally posted by Timebandit:
[b]You don't have to spend a lot of money on a wedding. The blond guy and I spent under $1000. My dress was second-hand and unfussy, the reception was in my mum's back yard, we had hamburgers and saskatoon pie with family and my MIL and SIL made a traditional Norwegian wedding cake for us. Later, other guest arrived and we had a low-key cocktail party that carried on until the wee hours. It was laid back and a lot of fun. No wacky toasts, masters of ceremony, garter or bouquet throwing or any of that nonsense. Several people told us it was the best wedding they'd ever been to.Do your own thing, Ghislaine. Choose the meaningful pieces and stick with them.[/b]
That sounds very nice! mmmm... Saskatoon Pie...
For some reason this thread reminded me of a wedding I was at in July, where the couple already have a 4 yr old. The groom's parents' speech was basically along the lines of "at least you are not living in sin anymore and your child is legitimate"! Very cringe-worthy for all attending and makes me wary of having any microphones that my extended family may be able to get a hold of, lol.
Mon, 2008-08-11 10:14
#29
Aren't families grand? Your comment gave me a good laugh Ghislaine. It is oh so real. It made me think of a tangentially related story about my father: When my partner was arranging for grad work in the US, he needed a financial guarantor, for which my father happily stood in. In addition to providing the INS with his financial information, quintessential dad provided a letter which began: "Please allow me to introduce [partner's name here], the father of my granddaughter and a potential son-in-law." Clearly he knew the correct order of things! I still chuckle fondly over this.
[ 11 August 2008: Message edited by: WendyL ]
Mon, 2008-08-11 10:16
#30
I find it so interesting that it is my friends and peers who are pressuring me to get married and not my family. My boyfriend and I talk about the pros and cons of marriage constantly and it seems we both do want to take the plunge eventually, though not until we have our finances and careers in order (which being a writer/editor and musician, might mean NEVER!) [img]smile.gif" border="0[/img]
I think Stacy May’s post proves that setting your own rules, whether traditional or inventive is part of the fun. I’ve been to so many weddings that lack the true personality of the couple getting married, besides a bulletin board decorated with pictures or an atrociously long slideshow. Part of the fun should be creating something that truly represents the couple and working with it, ignoring the watchful eye of disapproving relatives and friends.
Mon, 2008-08-11 10:24
#31
In addition to all the patriarchal implications for women present in the "Happily Ever After" narrative- such as all women need and should want is marriage - there is the idea that once you fall in love (whether married or not), this effortless, interminable span of "happiness" will follow for the rest of your lives.
It ignores the fact that no matter how strong the love, the bond and the commitment, there will be challenges and each person will have to put in effort and work to the relationship. It causes people to expect perfection, when no relationship is perfect. Not only do I think women need to redefine what happily ever after means, but question whether such a concept is even possible.
I remember always questioning why movies and books were over as a child and saying "what happens now?" - the answer would always be "they lived happily ever after" and I would be so perplexed as i thought that they must be still living and [i]doing[/i] something.
Mon, 2008-08-11 10:52
#32
Timebandit
quote:
Originally posted by Ghislaine:
[b]That sounds very nice! mmmm... Saskatoon Pie...
For some reason this thread reminded me of a wedding I was at in July, where the couple already have a 4 yr old. The groom's parents' speech was basically along the lines of "at least you are not living in sin anymore and your child is legitimate"! Very cringe-worthy for all attending and makes me wary of having any microphones that my extended family may be able to get a hold of, lol.[/b]
Our daughter was not quite 10 mos old when we got hitched. I was taking breastfeeding breaks during the reception! [img]biggrin.gif" border="0[/img]
No mics is the way to go. Easy to arrange/excuse if there are no speeches. [img]wink.gif" border="0[/img]
quote:
It ignores the fact that no matter how strong the love, the bond and the commitment, there will be challenges and each person will have to put in effort and work to the relationship. It causes people to expect perfection, when no relationship is perfect. Not only do I think women need to redefine what happily ever after means, but question whether such a concept is even possible.
I don't know if I agree with the work part. The blond guy and I have been together for nearly 12 years and it has never seemed like work. We disagree with each other, and as creative partners on the work side (we co-create all our projects to some degree) our differences can be, ummm, [i]colourful[/i]. But no matter how nuts we make each other on any given day, if someone were to ask me if my marriage is happy, I'd say yes, it is. Neither of us has had to make any sort of large changes to ourselves or who we are or what we want out of life to accomodate the partnership.
Mon, 2008-08-11 11:02
#33
quote:
Originally posted by Timebandit:
[b]I don't know if I agree with the work part. The blond guy and I have been together for nearly 12 years and it has never seemed like work. We disagree with each other, and as creative partners on the work side (we co-create all our projects to some degree) our differences can be, ummm, [i]colourful[/i]. But no matter how nuts we make each other on any given day, if someone were to ask me if my marriage is happy, I'd say yes, it is. Neither of us has had to make any sort of large changes to ourselves or who we are or what we want out of life to accomodate the partnership.[/b]
Work may have not been the best term - I basically meant that it is not just going to be all fun and games. There are going to be good times and more difficult times most likely. The other person may get a serious illness that requires care, etc, etc,...
Mon, 2008-08-11 11:55
#34
My mother cautioned me that I should always be prepared to look after myself and she told me quite emphatically -- when I was quite young -- that I should never feel I had to get married if I didn't want to.
I remember wondering why she was saying that. Was she warning me that no man would ever want to marry me, I wondered?
After many years of interviewing and writing about and talking to women, I have concluded that more women than not -- even older women, which I am -- had mothers who, whether openly or circumspectly, tried to encourage their daughters to look beyond marriage for a fulfilling life.
My father was a very sweet guy but my mother, I came to realize, felt cheated and I'm pretty sure if she'd had her way, she would never have married (although she acknowledged she wanted children). I suspect many women of her generation felt the same way and I think that image of mothers pushing their daughters into marriage, no-matter-what and come-what-may, is probably quite an exaggerated myth.
I was in a couple of long-term relationships when I was younger but I didn't get officially married until I was in my 40s -- when I was mature enough to know what I wanted. [img]wink.gif" border="0[/img]
Mon, 2008-08-11 12:11
#35
quote:
Originally posted by Michelle:
[b]I didn't see The Wedding Planner, but I did see The Wedding Crashers. Yes, Owen Wilson doing dorky comedy IS a guilty pleasure of mine. [img]smile.gif" border="0[/img] [/b]
A Weakerthans song played over the final credits in that movie!
Tue, 2008-08-12 08:36
#36
[url=http://indiebride.com/]Indie Bride [/url]is a link found in the comments section of the Shameless post. Looks like it has some interesting information!
Tue, 2008-08-12 09:14
#37
![http://img382.imageshack.us/img382/2559/getdz5.jpg[/img]](http://img382.imageshack.us/img382/2559/getdz5.jpg[/img]){kind=link}
Tue, 2008-08-12 11:14
#38
quote:
Originally posted by Ghislaine:
[b]I am currently trying to get up the courage to elope rather than have a wedding. Being a bit of an introvert - the idea of being on "display" and spending such a crazy amount of money scares me. But, i know my family will be annoyed.[/b]
We eloped, in New Orleans. Worst part was having to call home afterwards... my dad was like, "That's interesting." But we got a cool trip out of it, no one else had to spend money coming along, there were no family disputes, no bride- or groomzilla, no cheesy showers, and we didn't waste a whole year of our lives planning an event that neither one of us even wanted to attend! We did have a big party here afterwards -- rented a room in a restaurant, awesome food, open bar, walked away debt-free.
Painless! Lots of people have told us that they wished they had done the same thing.
Tue, 2008-08-12 14:45
#39
quote:
Originally posted by Robespierre:
[b][img]http://img382.imageshack.us/img382/2559/getdz5.jpg[/img][/b]
![http://img382.imageshack.us/img382/2559/getdz5.jpg[/img][/b]](http://img382.imageshack.us/img382/2559/getdz5.jpg[/img][/b]){kind=link}
Haha! Oh my god, you New Yorkers and your freakin' lawyer ads. New York State, home of Jim "The Hammer" Shapiro! [img]biggrin.gif" border="0[/img] (Except he was an ambulance chaser, not a divorce lawyer.)
Tue, 2008-08-12 15:38
#40
A friend of mine held a house warming party as a cover for her wedding. Absolutely no one knew beyond she and her partner (except her brother who, on the day of, called to say he was skipping the house warming for some other event and so had to be told). But everyone was there -- all the family members on both sides, all their friends, co-workers, every one important to them. When the JP arrived, unidentifiable by any of us, the two of them ran through the house, jubilantly calling out "We're getting married today, WE'RE GETTING MARRIED TODAY!!. What a great surprise for all of us and it was a really lovely event. They planned it this way mainly because his family would have been very insistent about parts of the ceremony and also because both of them are very much casual no-fuss folks. Problems were avoided much in the same way eloping, but both families took this house-warming-turned-wedding surprise mostly in stride because they shared in the event. I will note the only discord present that day was the bride's mom repeatedly lamenting, somewhat in shock, "I can't believe I'm at my daughter's wedding wearing pants I bought from Frenchy's" (a well known east coast used clothing chain). This inevitably melted away, and became a note of humour for their cherished day.
I have always found their creativity in this rather brilliant.
Tue, 2008-08-12 15:50
#41
That's cool.
That reminds me: my two friends from high school were both right into improv. They got married one day on stage! It wasn't all that legal I guess but hey, it worked for them.
Tue, 2008-08-19 11:39
#42
[url=http://offbeatbride.com]Loving this website![/url] Now these are some weddings I would like to attend!
Thu, 2008-09-11 09:00
#43
Here's a take from rabble regular, Jessica Yee.
[url=http://www.shamelessmag.com/blog/2008/09/why-do-we-always-have-to-think-... do we always have to think marriage? [/url]