RCMP spied on Rita MacNeil
Tue, 2008-08-05 04:53
#1
RCMP spied on Rita MacNeil
Tue, 2008-08-05 04:53
#2
I am not allowed in the feminism forum, so I thought I would post this here.
I thought [url=http://www.thestar.com/News/Canada/article/472240]this story[/url] was funny in a scary kind of way and is a good indication that there are undoubtedtly many affronts to our liberties occuring that we have no idea about at the moment:
quote:
RCMP spies infiltrated the women's movement in the early 1970s, monitoring marches and rallies to keep an eye on feminists including Rita MacNeil, who would become a much-admired Maritime songstress.An undercover source reporting on a March 1972 gathering of women's liberation groups in Winnipeg compiled biographical sketches of several delegates, noting MacNeil was in attendance from the Toronto Women's Caucus.
"She's the one who composes and sings women's lib songs," says the RCMP memo, portions of which remain secret.
MacNeil, who lent her musical talents to the feminist cause before turning to music full-time, was among dozens of women from across the country who came under Mountie scrutiny, new research reveals.
This was before Rita MacNeil guest-starred in my favourite Trailer Park Boys episode as an assistant pot harvester - the drug squad is probably watching her now, lol.
I wish it were unbelievable that less than 40 years ago women were considered some sort of national security threat for agitating for equal pay and rights! This part made me laugh:
quote:
The memo on the Winnipeg conference describes one session as "consisting of about one hundred sweating uncombed women standing around in the middle of the floor with their arms around each other crying sisterhood and dancing."
Tue, 2008-08-05 05:02
#3
That's rich! Imagine if it was a men's group. This might be the RCMP take on things, instead of this:
quote:
The memo on the Winnipeg conference describes one session as "consisting of about one hundred sweating uncombed women standing around in the middle of the floor with their arms around each other crying sisterhood and dancing."
We'd get this:
The memo on the Winnipeg Wrestling Conference describes one session as consisting of hundreds of sweaty men in headbands eating Beef Jerky and wrestling around in the middle of the floor in tight Speedos, all the while yelling and throwing things at a television set. When asked to comment, the men had nothing to say except "huh? what's wrong with wrestling? Pass me a beer asshat."
Tue, 2008-08-05 05:04
#4
quote:
Originally posted by Stargazer:
[b]That's rich! Imagine if it was a men's group. This might be the RCMP take on things, instead of this:We'd get this:
The memo on the Winnipeg Wrestling Conference describes one session as consisting of hundreds of sweaty men in headbands eating Beef Jerky and wrestling around in the middle of the floor in tight Speedos, all the while yelling and throwing things at a television set. When asked to comment, the men had nothing to say except "huh? what's wrong with wrestling? Pass me a beer asshat."[/b]
ha! I laughed out loud at the beef jerkey reference - I really don't know any women who have ever enjoyed or sought out beef jerky.
Tue, 2008-08-05 06:20
#5
remind
quote:
Originally posted by Ghislaine:
[b]I am not allowed in the feminism forum, so I thought I would post this here. [/b]
Way to; conflate, exaggerate, and be completely off base, plus throw in a bit of passive aggression for good measure. [img]rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img]
Oh, and show a lack of reading comprehension.
Michelle's actual comment to you was:
quote:
Ghislaine, you are to stay out of any [b]thread [/b] concerning abortion, for good. If you post in any further [b]threads[/b] on abortion, you will be removed from the board as a whole.
**Bolding for emphasis mine.
Now, back yo your post regarding Rita McNeil being watched. Wow, it is interesting to see how threatened men were, by women taking up their equality rights, way back when. If Harper would've been in power then we woulda all be classified as "terrorists".
Tue, 2008-08-05 10:22
#6
remind
I am requesting that this thread be moved to the feminist forum, where madmax had corrctly put his thread, as we discussed long ago now, feminst issues get put in the feminist forum for discussion.
Ghislaine had no reason, other than apparent passive aggressive snarkiness, to put it in the national news. She knows she is not banned from the feminist forum, just from abortion threads.
Tue, 2008-08-05 10:26
#7
M. Spector
The RCMP were no fools: they knew there was a potential in the feminist movement to turn society upside-down.
Rita MacNeil was indeed a danger to patriarchy, with her ability to inspire and motivate women through her feminist songs, long before she became famous.
Tue, 2008-08-05 10:35
#8
This is news?? The RCMP has always spied on progressive groups. And if any of you think this is a historical thread you are extremely naive. A good idea for any progressive person involved in the politics of change is to always presume that you are being watched and if you are effective then you will be infiltrated by agent provocateurs.
It is true the spooks are everywhere although they seem to have abandoned barn burnings as a pastime.
[ 06 August 2008: Message edited by: kropotkin1951 ]
Tue, 2008-08-05 10:38
#9
quote:
Originally posted by remind:
[b]I am requesting that this thread be moved to the feminist forum, where madmax had corrctly put his thread, as we discussed long ago now, feminst issues get put in the feminist forum for discussion.Ghislaine had no reason, other than apparent passive aggressive snarkiness, to put it in the national news. She knows she is not banned from the feminist forum, just from abortion threads.[/b]
I am just re-reading what Michelle wrote and remind is indeed correct. I had misinterpreted her as meaning the feminism forum. I tried to move this thread, but I have no idea how. Does anyone know how to move it?
Tue, 2008-08-05 10:40
#10
You're right, remind. I don't know how I missed this. Moving it on over to the feminism forum.
Tue, 2008-08-05 11:06
#11
N.Beltov
quote:
"She's the one who composes and sings women's lib songs," says the RCMP memo, portions of which remain secret.
It's still secret ... why? Perhaps because they are still doing it.
Tue, 2008-08-05 12:19
#12
Why would anyone spy on Rita Macneil? She's Canada's least offensive entertainer. [img]confused.gif" border="0[/img]
[ 05 August 2008: Message edited by: CMOT Dibbler ]
Tue, 2008-08-05 12:30
#13
M. Spector
Back then, she was Canada's most subversive entertainer.
Tue, 2008-08-05 15:16
#14
Scott Piatkowski
It's sad that many of the comments on [url=http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2008/08/04/rcmp-womenslib.html#socialcomm... story[/url] refer to her weight. Some of the worst comments have been already deleted.
Tue, 2008-08-05 15:49
#15
N.Beltov
The cold war justification for this misconduct by the RCMP secret political police, treated as somehow normal and OK, barely seems to raise an eyebrow in the very fluffy news reports that I've read so far. Of course it is only the tip of the iceberg that is showing above the surface at the moment.
Tue, 2008-08-05 15:52
#16
rural - Francesca
quote:
Originally posted by Scott Piatkowski:
[b]It's sad that many of the comments on [url=http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2008/08/04/rcmp-womenslib.html#socialcomm... story[/url] refer to her weight. Some of the worst comments have been already deleted.[/b]
But we all know it's totally ok to slam women for their weight!
[img]mad.gif" border="0[/img]
Wed, 2008-08-06 05:41
#17
If it had been Dan Ackroyd being investigated in the 70s, I doubt his current weight would have been newsworthy.
How different are the people who put more effort into discussing her weight, from those RCMP units that were investigating a womens movement?
Is it all ignorance?
Will Rita be able to legally look at her own file?
Wed, 2008-08-06 05:54
#18
remind
No, IMV, it was/is not all ignorance. The people commenting on her weight are ignorant, the RCMP's actions were part of the white male patriarchial control mechamisms, where they wanted to insure women remained exploitable, so as they could maintaion their own exploitive privilege.
Wed, 2008-08-06 06:31
#19
I haven't seen any comments appended to the CBC article, ignorant sizeist ones or not.
(Actually, in fairness, while women ARE more closely scrutinised for being "overweight" or "too thin" (anorexic...), rightwingers often slag Michael Moore for his weight as well).
But in some ways it is good for the movement to get public exposure of systemic spying on social movements, including an entertainer such as Rita MacNeil with her "down-home", woman-of-the-people image. They aren't just looking for dangerous and violent terrorists by any means; it is a means of political repression against dissent.
We all know that, but this case can be used to remind people who don't post on progressive forums about that, and the danger it poses to all citizens and residents of a country.
Wed, 2008-08-06 08:35
#20
I had no idea that Rita Mcneil was a feminist ! Where can I hear her singing one of these songs ?
as for the RCMP spying, I 'm kind of suprised they spied on feminists, but then again during the cold war governments went mad hatter paranoid about any leftist group that did or didn't exist (communists under everey bed, etc)
Wed, 2008-08-06 08:44
#21
Boom Boom
Several of her albums are listed at Amazon.ca.
Wed, 2008-08-06 09:08
#22
RCMP and now CSIS systematically infiltrate and spy on all progressive social movements, not just those that are remotely "communist" and certainly not only on potentially violent ones.
They also have to justify their budgets and usefulness.
The other important point about this is for leftists NOT to become paranoid or intimidated, but try to ensure means that the spooks can do as little damage as possible.
Wed, 2008-08-06 09:16
#23
MacNeil also has a lot of class content in her songs. The reason her latest album is "Working MAN" is because it is about coal miners, an overwhelmingly male job category.
Working Man
Chorus
It’s a working man l am
And I’ve been down under ground
And I swear to God if l ever see the sun
Or for any length of time
I can hold it in my mind
I never again will go down under ground
At the age of sixteen years
Oh he quarrels with his peers
Who vowed they’d never see another one
In the dark recess of the mines
Where you age before your time
And the coal dust lies heavy on your lungs
Chorus
At the age of sixty-four
Oh he'll greet you at the door
And he'll gently lead you by the arm
Through the dark recess of the mines
Oh he'll take you back in time
And he'll tell you of the hardships that were had
Chorus
(Repeat Chorus)
(Repeat Chorus)
God I never again will go down under ground
Wed, 2008-08-06 09:41
#24
Rita played at the first national Women's Music Festival, held in East Kildonan Park, Winnipeg in the 80's. She, and a number of other totally awesome women performers: Connie Caldor, Ferron (I think, but maybe that was a Boston concert), Nancy White, two Inuit throat singers whose names I do not recall, a sign language interpretive song by Cindy (last name gone). There was a big line-up of amazing talent, spirit, strength and resistance. I am a bit challenged to recall the year -- '85? '86?
quote:
This is news?? The RCMP has always spied on progressive groups. And if any of you think this is a historical thread you are extremely naive. A good rule of thumb for any progressive person involved in the politics of change is to always presume that you are being watched and if you are effective then you will be infiltrated by agent provocateurs.It is true the spooks are everywhere although they seem to have abandoned barn burnings as a pastime.
Absolutely agree with you, Kropotkin1951. They were always apparent at Peace Marches, Take Back The Night gatherings, May Day celebrations, any event which was so apparently subversive. They never attempted to be discrete at the events in which I have participated...black sedans, telephoto lenses, the whole nine yards. I do, however, object to your use of the phrase "rule of thumb" and would appreciate you finding other terms to express the concept.
[ 06 August 2008: Message edited by: WendyL ]
Wed, 2008-08-06 09:51
#25
Wendy, evidently the supposed wife-beating origin of the term "rule of thumb" is merely an urban legend.
Wed, 2008-08-06 09:52
#26
I don't actually believe the mythology around the term but since it has a mythic meaning that is misogynist then I will edit it out.
Wed, 2008-08-06 09:54
#27
N.Beltov
I trust that some of those babblers who don't see the harm of Cold War ideology and pathological anti-communism, or treat it as a lark, might now come to see how such ideologies do harm to a much larger group of people than their alleged targets, just as Islamophobia and Muslim-bashing does today.
Wed, 2008-08-06 09:55
#28
If you wish, but I sure wouldn't edit anything out because of made-up history. No more than I'd refuse to use the term niggardly.
N Beltov, obviously I was responding to krotopkin and wendy. I most heartily agree. Redbaiting targeted the labour movement and the civil rights movement.
Islamophobia (though I'm not sure I like that term, we know what it refers to) and racial profiling target all people of Muslim origin, whether or not they are fundamentalists or even believers, and anyone who looks "Middle Eastern" "North African" or "South Asian" - a hell of a lot of people.
[ 06 August 2008: Message edited by: lagatta ]
Wed, 2008-08-06 09:58
#29
I'm trying to build up a little good will since I know I will inevitably have a sour day and will need some to expend after a rant.
[img]cool.gif" border="0[/img] [img]wink.gif" border="0[/img] [img]biggrin.gif" border="0[/img]
Wed, 2008-08-06 09:58
#30
N.Beltov
It may be an urban legend - or enough evidence cannot be found, which amounts to the same thing - but using such a term among people who question its use could be considered unnecessarily insensitive and provocative.
Wed, 2008-08-06 10:11
#31
N.Beltov
By the way, here is a link to the book written by one of the researchers, Steve Hewitt, who made the news on this story. It looks like an essential read for all babblers ...
[url=http://tiny.cc/TITky]SPYING 101: The RCMP's SECRET Activities at Canadian Universities, 1917-1997[/url]
[ 06 August 2008: Message edited by: N.Beltov ]
Wed, 2008-08-06 14:48
#32
I'm willing to concede to a perhaps mythical genesis of 'rule of thumb' and apologize to k1951 -- sorry.
I would point out that there is also the myth of the urban myth.
Surveillance has been/is insidious and Howlett's book looks interesting. Great reference.