Sarah Palin II

Commenting on previous closed thread on Palin

Nice with the Arnold pic! :evil

Was that McCain and his new running mate or Hank Hill's father from King of the Hill standing there with Gidget?

Agree with the statement by the person who said that Liden has to be more polite with Palin as to not appear like a chauvanist pig.

Wasn't Palin involved with the Alaskan pipeline? If so, there should be old articles about her in the BC/Alberta papers about the pipeline. If she is for drilling on the Alaskian/Yukon park (sp?), I am surprised that David Suzuki doesn't have something on her.

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I feel a twinge of sympathy for Hillary right now - I think Obama was a dick for not choosing her

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I get the feeling that Michelle doesn't care for her much. Even if Barack was thinking of choosing Hillary, I am sure that Michelle would talk her out of it. Any way, I get the feeling that the Clintons were thinking Liden as VP IF they got in. You noticed that Hillary gave more praise to Liden than Obama in her speach and that Bill seemed quite impressed with the choice?

Hillary said that the proudest moment was the Underground Railroad. Wasn't that when some Americans left the US for Canada because they didn't like it there? [img]biggrin.gif" border="0[/img]

BTW - If "first lady" is an official position, shouldn't Michelle Obama be facing off with McCain's wife. I like her - she makes Olivia Chow look weak and submissive in contrast.

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In Canadian terms she sounds like a REAL woman to me.

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I am sure Palin pumped gas (referring to the book - maybe). Gas is considered erotica in them parts. She does try to appear both the feminist and the wifey at the same time. Not sure if you can call the neo con version of feminism true feminism because of their anti-woman agenda. But her coaching is going to help because the women-in-sports appeals to feminists.

I would not underestimate her in a debate and she is bound to know more about Canada than Liden and is apt to turn every foreign affairs question into something about us.

One can't attack her lack of experience without renewing the attack on Obama for his presumed lack of experience.

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As the mother of young children myself, my immediate thought was, "What is she doing running for VP with a 4-month old?!

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Not fair! A politician having their own baby to kiss! The baby will be coming with her.

[ 29 August 2008: Message edited by: vaudree ]

Rosal, we may recognise what Palin said as threatening, but her rhetoric is much gentler than what Americans are used to. And she seems to give a spoon full of sugar with the poison - to make it look like she is giving them something so they don't focus on what she is taking away. Eventually, American patients do get access to "billing information" - they need to to pay the bill. I don't know what it cost when my son broke his wrist in gym class - because I did not have to pay for it.

As I read through the last thread, and now this one, I am getting the impression that a large number of posters are at least mildly enthusiastic about McCain's choice of Palin.

For some, it's a PUMA thing. But for many it seems to be a desire to assert some independence from the presumed Canadian preference for the Democrats. Or maybe they're just Republican trolls!

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Originally posted by ceti:
[b]She may seem like a rugged outdoorsy blue collar type, but she is an social and economic conservative, and ultra religious nut.
[/b]

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Would it be fair to say that, when you add the outdoorsy hunting and fishing hobbies to the background as a one-time beauty queen, plus the socially conservative beliefs and opinions, that this selection is designed to attract a certain type of men, rather than any women?

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Originally posted by jester:
...Ms. Palin will recruit all the HRC delegates that consider gender over party politics.

Tanslation, jester thinks the women who supported Clinton will move to Palin, as feminists will always consider gender over party politics.
Not by a long shot jester, and frankly, IMV it is sexist to say such a thing.

As thinking us little women know sweet fuck all about politics and will choose our own gender intead of loyalty to a party, can be nothing else, except for ill informed bias..

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I think that by not comprehending my remarks and translating them into a disengenious form that allows you to climb on your soapbox, you exhibit your own bias.

What I said was that Sarah Barracuda will recruit all the HRC delegates[b]that consider gender over party politics[/b]

Nothing [b]AT ALL[/b] about [b]"feminists will always consider gender over party politics"[/b] Nothing. nada. You made that up.

You are a liar.

Looks like she edited her own Wikipedia entry to make her look better before she was announced as the running-mate. Tsk tsk tsk!

[url=http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/8/29/21034/4861/159/579549]http:/...

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Originally posted by jester:
[b]I think that by not comprehending my remarks and translating them into a disengenious form that allows you to climb on your soapbox, you exhibit your own bias.

What I said was that Sarah Barracuda will recruit all the HRC delegates[b]that consider gender over party politics[/b]

Nothing [b]AT ALL[/b] about [b]"feminists will always consider gender over party politics"[/b] Nothing. nada. You made that up.

You are a liar.[/b]

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No, jester, you can try and weasel all you want, and lash out names to cover your words, but you directly referred to HRC supporters that consider gender over politics, in respect to voting for Palin, a woman, there is no one else that you would have beeen referring to other than women/feminists who supported HRC.

As by default, you would have had to have been referring to men, as there is after all 2 genders. And you weren't referring to men.

To anyone who can read or anyone [b]not [/b] making a crude attempt to alter the meaning of my words to provide a platform for sexist labeling.

This sort of manipulation is what gives rise to the 'radical' charge and gives legitimate feminism a bad rap.

Bullshit,martin. I made an observation that Palin will attract the votes of women who value gender over party politics. I was not focusing hostility to Palin.

Thats all,folks.

Back to the topic, Sarah Palin's nickname in highschool was Sarah Barracuda. Don't know why yet but I'm sure we will be deluged with personal information on her and her family.

Ms.Palin was a rural nobody who took on the Alaska Republican machine and won several times. She is obviously a strong person who doesn't cave to pressure.

Ms. Palin's social conservative stance on both social and environmental issues will be attractive to fundamentalists but will be repugnant to feminists and environmentalists.

On the whole, a gutsy move by McCain to secure his republican fundamentalist base and simultaniously put a burr under the Democratic saddle. Voters in the murky middle may also be attracted to the Republicans by Ms. Palin.

[ 30 August 2008: Message edited by: jester ]

[url=http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080829.wrepublicanv... Canadian connection[/url]

excerpt:

Ms. Palin also has fans in Calgary, where she championed a bill that grants TransCanada Corp. the right to start work on a $26-billion (U.S.) pipeline to bring trapped Alaska gas to the lower 48 states.

“She has provided tremendous leadership on the gas line,” said Tony Palmer, TransCanada's vice-president of Alaska development. “… She's strong and resolute, with high ethical standards.”

Ms. Palin is no stranger to Canada. This summer, she was one of several U.S. governors who signed a wide-ranging pact with B.C. Premier Gordon Campbell, establishing the Pacific Coast Collaborative initiative. Climate change issues are the focus of that agreement, putting the governor firmly in the small group of Republicans ready to take action on greenhouse gases.

Joan McIntyre, B.C.'s newly appointed Secretary of State for Intergovernmental Relations, was not at the June signing of the regional pact, but said B.C.'s northern neighbour is clearly worried about climate change issues. “Alaska definitely has their concerns,” she said.

[url=http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080830/ap_on_el_pr/cvn_todd_palin_profile]Todd Palin[/url] (four-time Tesoro Iron Dog "skidoo" race champion) and blue-collar "first dude" of Alaska.

ETA: And they obviously didn't "come from money":

"We had a bad fishing year that year [1988], so we didn't have any money," Todd Palin told The Associated Press last year. "So we decided to spend 35 bucks and go down to the courthouse [to get married]."

[ 30 August 2008: Message edited by: Sven ]

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Originally posted by remind:
[b]No, jester, you can try and weasel all you want, and lash out names to cover your words, but you directly referred to HRC supporters that consider gender over politics, in respect to voting for Palin, a woman, there is no one else that you would have beeen referring to other than women/feminists who supported HRC.[/b]

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But there some female Democrats, who had supported Senator Clinton, who do feel that way, and they've basically said so. They're a small number, but they've gotten a certain amount of attention.

I am sure that some, like Wisconsin nurse Debra Bartoshevich, may well have been Republican plants from the get go, but there have been some women Democrats who've made it plain that they won't vote for Obama, that he stole the nomination from her. One such person is [b]Olga Vives, a VP of NOW[/b], who told a TV interviewer in the last days of the primaries that it was very hurtful too see Clinton losing to a less qualified man, a judgement on their relative merits that has, of course, no basis in reality whatsoever.

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/25/AR200808... Dem. delegate stars in McCain ad[/url]

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Originally posted by martin dufresne:
[b]Technically true, but... Even if a remark doesn't address the full set of a group, it seems to me that it can be - and generally is - derogatory to the group set upon by the sentence, e.g. "Some men are really dumb". By choosing to focus hostility against Palin's politics toward HRC delegates and no other (more likely) group of voters, jester had it coming.

[/b]

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Can I keep this as an example of truly lame logic?

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Why would you presume that an Alaskin leader would know more about Canada

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Because of it's location, you are more apt to get the CBC (for sure) and CTV (possibly) there than you would in Texas. And the way she words her scary policies seems more like our neo cons.

And then the likelihood that she would have had to have met a few Premiers to negotiate the second Alaskian pipeline.

Did I hear right that her husband is part Inuit?

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Sarah herself is a fundamentalist protestant (assemblies of God), a creationist, staunchly anti-choice, and global warming skeptic.

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Global warming sceptic, eh? Something about that makes me want to get someone to do a spoof of Alice Cooper's "We're all Crazy" entitled "Palin is Crazy" - with the line "Imagine shooting bears from planes." If she advocates hunting by plane, she must not like the starving polar bears - or how can they be starving when they are still fatter than losing beauty pagent contestants!

Ceti, the way you talk about Alaska (oil/corruption/money) you make it sound like Alberta.

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To anyone who can read or anyone not making a crude attempt to alter the meaning of my words to provide a platform for sexist labeling.

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They may have quoted you to comment on the issue raised rather than to insinuate that you said what you didn't. Any ways, people come here half asleep and make errors. We are all going to.

Back to topic, am I the only one who gets the impression that the Dems had commercials on every one else except Palin (probably not). Same with the Tories at the Liberal Convention - they had trash available 5 minutes after the vote on Rae and Iggy but did not bother with Dion - though it did not take them long to find any. I figured it would be Dion because his english was better than Kennedy's french - Ontario hates Rae and (at the time) Iggy appeared too American.

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However, one name is suspiciously missing every time - that of Palin.

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What an observation! I get the feeling they planned this for a while. This also goes to the other comment about Palin cleaning up her Wik entry - no one would bother with it because they did not consider her to be a serious candidate and, after she accept the nomination for VP, Wik does not allow editing so we are stuck with the positive image until after the election.

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This sort of manipulation is what gives rise to the 'radical' charge and gives legitimate feminism a bad rap.

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No, it just makes us look almost as smart as Kelly Bundy. To say that we vote on something as superficial as race or gender alone would be insulting our intelligence rather than our feminism. BTW did anyone see that 22 Minutes spoof interview of a PC candidate where the husband did all the talking and it turned out the wife was the candidate?

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Back to the topic, Sarah Palin's nickname in highschool was Sarah [b]Baracuda[/b].

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[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpkitLUbeEg]Wasn't there a song by that title ...[/url] (my bolding)

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Ms. Palin is no stranger to Canada. This summer, she was one of several U.S. governors who signed a wide-ranging pact with B.C. Premier Gordon Campbell, establishing the Pacific Coast Collaborative initiative.

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Just like Gordon Campbell is no stranger to Hawaii! :evil How does the Pacific Coast Collaborative Initiative compare to the [b]Western Climate Initiative (WCI)[/b]? I am more familiar with the latter.

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Joan McIntyre, B.C.'s newly appointed Secretary of State for Intergovernmental Relations, was not at the June signing of the regional pact, but said B.C.'s northern neighbour is clearly worried about climate change issues. “Alaska definitely has their concerns,” she said.

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I think everyone is "worried about climate change issues" from David Suzuki to Exxon - but for different reasons.

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Todd Palin (four-time Tesoro Iron Dog "skidoo" race champion) and blue-collar "first dude" of Alaska.

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Didn't Belinda Stronach also marry some sort of racer? Palin seems to have lived around the same area for a long time.

It doesn't look like she's done what she's supposed to - the men (not entirely surprisingly) like her more:

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At this stage, it is not clear how impactful her selection will be: 35 percent of voters say they're more likely to vote for McCain with Palin on the ticket, and 33 percent say they're less likely. Indeed, among voters already committed to one or the other candidate, her choice would seem to do little bit entrench partisan feelings: just 6 percent of McCain voters say they're less likely to vote for McCain with Palin on the ticket, while just 9 percent of Obama voters say they're more so. (To see how Joe Biden's numbers compared -- see here. As might be expected, Biden scored better on readiness and worse on personal favorables, with the other numbers being about the same).

What's interesting, however, is that while there is a gender gap in these numbers, it's not the one many observers were anticipating. Rather, along a variety of metrics, men like the Palin choice better than women

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[url=http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/08/women-more-skeptical-of-palin-tha...

Original quote:

[b]HEALTH CARE – “I support flexibility in government regulations that allow competition in health care that is needed, and is proven to be good for the consumer, which will drive down health care costs and reduce the need for government subsidies. I also support patients in their rightful demands to have access to full medical billing information.”[/b]

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Originally posted by vaudree:
Eventually, American patients do get access to "billing information" - they need to to pay the bill. I don't know what it cost when my son broke his wrist in gym class - because I did not have to pay for it.

I'm not sure what you're getting at here ....

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First of all, Palin's "allowing competition" comment seems more traditional Tory than traditional Repug. It implies that this is a crowd that does not fear the term "socialized medicine" but sees some benefits in it and may have even experienced it to some degree. The overt idea seems to not be getting rid of public health care, to the degree that it exists, but introducing more Private health care to take the pressure off the public system.

Secondly, Palin also indicates that she plans to reduce government spending on Health Care, but says it in a way to make it sound that former spending levels will no longer be needed.

And thirdly, for those who don't buy those argument, she can steer clear of the public versus private debate (the poison) and government spending on health care debate (more poison) and focus on this patient access to information thing (the sugar).

Think of it, it is harder to argue about what is wrong with Patients having more information than the other two. Yet, if she diverts the argument onto the "patients in their rightful demands to have access to full medical billing information" - she could use that part of it to not have to defend the rest of it.

It is sort of along the same idea of Palin turning all international issues into her direct experience dealing with Premiers - making it look like Gordon Campbell is a tougher adversary than Russia. I think she could do that.

My counter argument to patients knowing about billing was just that you only need to know how much it costs if you are paying for it - but she probably has a counter to that come to think of it.

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I think it's great! I have never seen one of those bears live

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That bear on the chesterfield in Palin's office wasn't. Crab dip anyone?

[ 30 August 2008: Message edited by: vaudree ]

Well I was away from media all day yesterday, and was more than a little gobsmacked to come home late at night to this.

This could work out to be a terrible idea for so many reasons.

For starters, every time they're portrayed side by side, it'll make McCain look 82 instead of 72. If they're smart, senior Dem's won't do it, but the phrase "a heartbeat away from the oval office" is going to be heard in the media a lot more. It really underlines how limited the field of good choices was for McCain. It was definitely a Hail Mary pass.

This person's politics are of course unfuckingbelievable, but there is a constituency to which she speaks.

I think the Repugs will need to really keep her in a bubble for the next two months. They'll need to create a brand for her, and not let her get too many chances to make uncontrolled appearances.

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Originally posted by martin dufresne:
[b]Interesting that you would counter an explanation by an insult. Maybe not so cunning after all...? But let's trade: I'll keep your own "bon mot" as a good example of metaphors that revictimize the disabled.

[ 30 August 2008: Message edited by: martin dufresne ][/b]

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Digging deeper, eh?

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Like this?

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Pretty much, yeah. He looks like a heavily airbrushed and photoshopped picture of Dorian Gray.

[ 30 August 2008: Message edited by: oldgoat ]

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Why would you presume that an Alaskin [sic] leader would know more about Canada
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Because of it's [sic] location, you are more apt to get the CBC (for sure) and CTV (possibly) there than you would in Texas. And the way she words her scary policies seems more like our neo cons.

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I used to live on the northwest coast for a while. The TV station there included Ketchikan and Sitka in its news and weather reports, so I guess residents of the Alaskan panhandle were considered part of the audience.

On the other hand, did anyone see that Fox News guy on "The Daily Show" who said Palin would be good at international relations because Alaska is so close to Russia? How do maroons like this get jobs as political experts on TV?

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Originally posted by Doug:
[b]It doesn't look like she's done what she's supposed to - the men (not entirely surprisingly) like her more:[/b]

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Yep, just as I stated above, but some men appear to believe that they know, more about women's, especially those on the left, voting patterns and motivators, than women themselves do, and it would seem that the Republican strategists rank amongst those who hold this myth to be true.

As the linked NY Times article above stated:

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“I don’t think a Hillary person would ever move to her, based on the issues,” said Jean Craciun, a strategic research and planning consultant in Alaska who has done political polling for Democrats and Republicans. “I don’t think before today I would have ever heard someone call her a feminist.”

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Just wait until the hard-core right wing find out she's married to a union member.

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McCain’s choice of Palin was somewhat surprising because she most definitely is not a standard-issue Republican. She worked with liberal Democrats in the Legislature to pass a multi-billion-dollar tax increase on Alaska’s oil industry. She went back to Democrats again to win approval of her natural gas pipeline deal, which bypasses Alaska’s major oil companies in favor of a Canadian company.

In fact, Palin is almost totally alienated from the Republican Party establishment here. She tried and failed to get rid of ethically compromised party Chair Randy Ruedrich; they’re not on speaking terms. In the August primary, Palin urged fellow Republicans to desert long-time Congressman Don Young in favor of her inexperienced and uninspiring lieutenant governor, Sean Parnell.

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I think I'm beginning to like her already. [img]biggrin.gif" border="0[/img]

[url=http://features.csmonitor.com/politics/2008/08/30/what-the-alaska-media-... -saying-about-sarah-palin/[/url]

[ 30 August 2008: Message edited by: NorthReport ]

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Just like Gordon Campbell is no stranger to Hawaii! :evil How does the Pacific Coast Collaborative Initiative compare to the Western Climate Initiative (WCI)?

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Alaska has observer status within the WCI. Palin herself is somewhat of a skeptic, according to the last question of this interview [url=http://http://www.newsmax.com/headlines/sarah_palin_vp/2008/08/29/126139... - sarah palin[/url], although she admits that the climate is changing. It also appears she doesn't realize Alaska petroleum production peaked in 1988.