Well, I don't want to press the issue, because I think Palin's so-con, free-market, anti-woman agenda should be exposed and criticized.
But Palin is providing a scary look into the thinking of people claiming to be our allies. And she is demonstrating that they are emphatically not.
I'm curious, not challenging. Can you give some examples of this besides dumb ass comics. I am thinking more of people in some kind of authority.
Well, if you think that Jon Stewart and Bill Maher don't wield any authority among American liberals, you are deluded. But I also mentioned how the terms of debate around the elections have shifted from experience, policy and even 'change' to who's fucking, marrying and giving birth to whom since a woman entered the mix. And this has been done by everybody, from bloggers to editorials to news coverage, etc.
But I don't want to contribute to that anymore myself. If you want to start a thread about sexism and Sarah Palin, go right ahead.
quote:
Originally posted by Bookish Agrarian:
[b]What I can't figure out is why no one is questioning what seems to be almost a forced marraige between a 17 year old and her boyfriend (I don't know his age). [/b]
He just turned 72.
quote:
Originally posted by Catchfire:
[b]Well, if you think that Jon Stewart and Bill Maher don't wield any authority among American liberals, you are deluded. But I also mentioned how the terms of debate around the elections have shifted from experience, policy and even 'change' to who's fucking, marrying and giving birth to whom since a woman entered the mix. And this has been done by everybody, from bloggers to editorials to news coverage, etc.But I don't want to contribute to that anymore myself. If you want to start a thread about sexism and Sarah Palin, go right ahead.[/b]
Thank you, I would argue quite strongly that Maher and Stewart are not in authority, but instead have a following. Nor am I sure Stewart at least is a liberal.
I haven't seen much in the way of sexist comments coming from the Obama campaign, -that is more what I was asking about. Thank you though for expanding on what you meant.
quote:
Ghislaine: She should be attacked based on her ideas, rather than anything else.
Her ideas [b]and her record[/b]. Plenty in there to discredit her without going for those cheesy 'evil incarnate' insults.
[ 02 September 2008: Message edited by: martin dufresne ]
quote:
Originally posted by Stargazer:
[b]Why should we care? Hello??? This is a 17 year old girl, whose life will forever be a battle due to having a child so young.
[/b]
I also feel sorry for her boyfriend. Not just having to become a parent but having to get married because your mother-in-law-to-be must look good as a candidate. Imagine the pressure.
quote:
Originally posted by Boom Boom:
[b]
According to this Republican, who would discuss internal campaign strategizing only on condition of anonymity, [b]the McCain team used little more than a Google Internet search as part of a rushed effort to review Palin's potential pitfalls.[/b] [/b]
Damn...when John McCain said he'd google for his VP choice, he wasn't kidding!
Here is a statement on Palin from NOW:
"August 29, 2008
Statement of NOW PAC Chair Kim Gandy on the Selection of Sarah Palin as John McCain's Vice Presidential Pick
Sen. John McCain's choice of Alaska governor Sarah Palin as his running mate is a cynical effort to appeal to disappointed Hillary Clinton voters and get them to vote, ultimately, against their own self-interest...." [url=http://www.now.org/press/08-08/08-29.html]National Organization of Women[/url]
===
A dissenting view from George Lakoff who predictably sees Palin as essentially a smart choice, diverting "attention from difficult realities to powerful symbolism.":
"The Democratic responses so far reflect external realities: she is inexperienced, knowing little or nothing about foreign policy or national issues; she is really an anti-feminist, wanting the government to enter women's lives to block abortion, but not wanting the government to guarantee equal pay for equal work, or provide adequate child health coverage, or child care, or early childhood education; she shills for the oil and gas industry on drilling; she denies the scientific truths of global warming and evolution; she misuses her political authority; she opposes sex education and her daughter is pregnant; and, rather than being a maverick, she is on the whole a radical right-wing ideologue.
All true, so far as we can tell.
But such truths may nonetheless be largely irrelevant to this campaign. That is the lesson Democrats must learn. They must learn the reality of the political mind...."
[url=http://www.huffingtonpost.com/george-lakoff/the-palin-choice-and-the_b_1... page[/url]
[ 02 September 2008: Message edited by: contrarianna ]
The National tonight is reporting Palin has been strangely absent from public appearances today, and her vetting team is still in Alaska. They're showing photos of Palin "...in office during the time reported to be her pregnancy, and she doesn't look pregnant". And, then, speculated that she is actually the grandmother of Trig (this has been speculated all weekend). I wonder how this will turn out. McCain is heard saying (on The National) today "...he's proud of the impression she has made on America." [img]rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img]
A real life Brie Vandecamp? [img]wink.gif" border="0[/img]
quote:
Originally posted by remind:
[b]A real life Brie Vandecamp? [img]wink.gif" border="0[/img] [/b]
Brie Vandecamp? Who she? [img]confused.gif" border="0[/img]
Well, more accurately, it is Brie Van De Camp, and she is a character on a TV show called Desperate Housewives. Last season her teen age daughter got pregnant and she pretended she was carrying the baby. She is a right wing, religious control freak.
[ 02 September 2008: Message edited by: remind ]
quote:
And personally I could give a rat's ass what sexism is heaped on her.
So sexism is bad when it happens us and our allies but good or ok when it happens to someone we dont like? I know you didnt mean that but thats how it comes across and it is by such comments that the left looks hypocritical and people think the right aint so bad.
Its what, quite frankly, mccains team is hoping for with palin, Im positive
I have the funny feeling that McCain's goose is cooked. [img]biggrin.gif" border="0[/img]
bacchus, the argument can be made that in fact Palin, does not believe in sexism, through her religion she believes that women are less than men.
And for about the 5th time, she won't be getting any of the women's votes, that they were hoping for, and the only votes that she will get, will be the sexist one's where the men want to be "white knights' and rush to her rescue, from those nasty other women and progressives.
[ 02 September 2008: Message edited by: remind ]
The latest from the CNN ticker
quote:
Republican National Committee co-chair Jo
Ann Davidson mistakenly referred to the party's presumptive vice-presidential candidate, Sarah Palin, as "Sarah Pawlenty" at the Republican National Convention Tuesday.Palin, the governor of Alaska, was a surprise choice to join Sen. John McCain on the Republican ticket. Minnesota Gov. Tim Pawlenty had been considered one of the front-runners for the slot.
[img]biggrin.gif" border="0[/img] [img]biggrin.gif" border="0[/img] [img]biggrin.gif" border="0[/img]
If this was a novel I think we would all call this foreshadowing of the climactic disaster to come.
quote:
Originally posted by Boom Boom:
[b]I have the funny feeling that McCain's goose is cooked. [img]biggrin.gif" border="0[/img] [/b]
It's not over until the mega media sings, and they might finish with a different tune.
====
Meanwhile, here's something everybody can get behind; a good old-fashoned book (and librarian) burning:
"Stein says that as mayor, Palin continued to inject religious beliefs into her policy at times. "She asked the library how she could go about banning books," he says, because some voters thought they had inappropriate language in them. "The librarian was aghast." That woman, Mary Ellen Baker, couldn't be reached for comment, but news reports from the time show that Palin had threatened to fire Baker for not giving "full support" to the mayor.... "
[url=http://www.time.com/time/printout/0,8816,1837918,00.html]TIME[/url]
Good Grief
Where is my pop corn. This just gets better and better.
Can you imagine a Librarian not cooperating in the banning of books.
I have worked as a Librarian for quite some time in small town Libraries. Not once have I ever had a municpal politician interfere in our book selection or come even close to suggesting books should be banned.
Welcome the world that Harper wants to create!
Wait 'til they find out about Palin's [url=http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:7ssCr41iMkRSQM:http://www.krinein.co...... and his take on [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zey8567bcg]British Columbians[/url]!
[ 02 September 2008: Message edited by: martin dufresne ]
quote:
Originally posted by martin dufresne:
[b]Wait 'til they find out about Palin's father:
[url=http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:7ssCr41iMkRSQM:http://www.krinein.co... m/img_fiches/125/palin_250.jpg[/url][/b]
Yeah, the frenzy will continue right until the Dems find out they just blew the election.
There are a lot of middle Americans who may agree with Palin's views. Obama's concern about attacks on Palin's relations shows he sees the danger to the Democrats.
quote:
This kid had no choice, thanks to her mom.
There is another potential choice (adoption), but that probably wouldn't go over well either with the family (along with not getting married) either.
quote:
Originally posted by remind:
[b]And for about the 5th time, she won't be getting any of the women's votes, that they were hoping for[/b]
Time will tell. But, women voters may just be the ones to put McCain-Palin in the Oval Office...
So, you are saying jester, that you believe a lot of middle Americans believe in:
1. Book banning
2. Using elected power to intimidate public employees
3. Alaska should separate from the USA
4. Destroying parks for oil exploration (well they might)
5. No sex ed in schools
6. Forced teen age marriages, and the prospective father who says: "I don't want kids".
I hope you are wrong.
And it appears as though info about Palin is disappearing down the memory hole.
quote:
Originally posted by Sven:
[b]Time will tell. But, women voters may just be the ones to put McCain-Palin in the Oval Office...[/b]
I always love how men believe that they know how women are going to vote.
quote:
Originally posted by remind:
[b]I always love how men believe that they know how women are going to vote.[/b]
I always love how women believe that they know how men are going to vote.
Pretty vacant comment.
quote:
Originally posted by martin dufresne:
[b]Pretty vacant comment.[/b]
Actually, they are both "vacant comments". Problem is, mine was in jest while remind's wasn't
quote:
Originally posted by Bookish Agrarian:
[b]The latest from the CNN ticker
[img]biggrin.gif" border="0[/img] [img]biggrin.gif" border="0[/img] [img]biggrin.gif" border="0[/img]
If this was a novel I think we would all call this foreshadowing of the climactic disaster to come.[/b]
Something similar happened today where John McCain's campaign manager accidentally called her Sarah Failin in an interview.
Allow me to repeat what I said earlier:
quote:
Originally posted by Sven:
[b]Time will tell. But, women voters may just be the ones to put McCain-Palin in the Oval Office...[/b]
For those who are challenged with basic reading skills:
I did not say:
"Women [b][i]will[/b][/i] put McCain-Palin in the Oval Office."
I did not even say:
"Women [b][i]are likely to[/b][/i] put McCain-Palin in the Oval Office."
Instead, I said that women [b][i]may[/b][/i] put McCain-Palin in the Oval Office.
Which, of course, given Palin's political views, would be near the height of irony.
Oh, why don't you sit on it, Sven... or take it up with a professional if you have that much misogynist bile to vent. Your comment was no great big deal: Male pundits have been overtly or subtly (!) blaming political reaction on women at least since the French revolution and probably long before. Putting them down is what makes us lefties men...
quote:
Originally posted by martin dufresne:
[b]Oh, why don't you sit on it, Sven... or take it up with a professional if you have that much misogynist bile to vent.[/b]
What the fuck are you talking about?
Women are one of a handful of key voting groups in the upcoming election. It's entirely possible that a sufficient number of them will vote for the McCain-Palin ticket to put McCain in the oval office.
Okay Sven, what suppporting evidence makes you think that women may vote for Palin? Other than your male smarts in respect to women?
And BTW, your last comment negates your earlier one, where you were professing you were jesting about women voting for Palin.
quote:
For those who are challenged with basic reading skills:I did not say:
"Women will put McCain-Palin in the Oval Office."
I did not even say:
"Women are likely to put McCain-Palin in the Oval Office."
Instead, I said that women [b]may [/b] put McCain-Palin in the Oval Office.
If I say Sven [b]may[/b] be an imbecile troll, I'm sure you will object even if the statement is speculative.
No single group "puts" someone in power. This kind of selective vision is just a cheap trick used by pseudo-pundits to slag a group they want to exert "the height of irony" against.
quote:
Originally posted by remind:
[b]And BTW, your last comment negates your earlier one, where you were professing you were jesting about women voting for Palin.[/b]
You would do well to take a [b][i]basic[/b][/i] reading comprehension course, remind.
Here's my comment I was jesting about: "I always love how women believe that they know how men are going to vote." That was in response to your moronic statement that said: "I always love how men believe that they know how women are going to vote."
quote:
Originally posted by remind:
[b]Okay Sven, what suppporting evidence makes you think that women may vote for Palin? Other than your male smarts in respect to women?[/b]
That's laughable, remind. My "male smarts in respect to women"!! It's about as good are your "female smarts in respect to men" which you constantly regale us with here.
As I explicitly prefaced my comment with above, "time will tell". I'm not saying women will do or not do anything in this election. But, the exit polls will in about eight weeks, now won't they?
quote:
Originally posted by Sven:
[b]What the fuck are you talking about?
Women are one of a handful of key voting groups in the upcoming election. It's entirely possible that a sufficient number of them will vote for the McCain-Palin ticket to put McCain in the oval office.[/b]
Well, there are women in the red states as well... Some of whom may identify more strongly with Palin than they would with Clinton. More importantly, they identify more with hockey-mom, pro-life Palin than with multiple-house-owning, trophy-wife-marrying McCain. Choosing Palin was a hasty, cynical choice in his bid for the womens' votes.
I'm also thinking back to Clinton's softened stance on the abortion issue as part of her platform. American politics.
quote:
Originally posted by martin dufresne:
[b]If I say Sven [b]may[/b] be an imbecile troll, I'm sure you will object even if the statement is speculative.[/b]
Frankly, I don't give a shit what you think about me, martin.
quote:
Originally posted by martin dufresne:
[b]No single group "puts" someone in power. This kind of selective vision is just a cheap trick used by pseudo-pundits to slag a group they want to exert "the height of irony" against.[/b]
I'm not "slagging" anyone.
I think it would be fair to say that blue-collar "Reagan Democrats" were a principal reason for Reagan being elected (and re-elected). It's a pretty well-accepted fact. And, it's (dare I say it?) [b][i]ironic[/b][/i] because they likely voted against their own economic interests.
Is that "slagging" blue-collar workers who voted for Reagan? No. It's an observation.
quote:
Originally posted by martin dufresne:
[b]If I say Sven [b]may[/b] be an imbecile troll, I'm sure you will object even if the statement is speculative.
No single group "puts" someone in power. This kind of selective vision is just a cheap trick used by pseudo-pundits to slag a group they want to exert "the height of irony" against.[/b]
Thanks for pointing this out Martin.
This combined with personal attacks when asked for actual substantive information to hold such an opinion, about female voters, when coming from a man, clearly indicates the propaganda being used to try to frame conceptions around a notion that; "women voters will vote for Palin".
It seems the Repub voice boxes just can't give up their false premises, so they are going to try and make themselves correct.
quote:
Originally posted by Sven:
[b]That was in response to your moronic statement that said: "I always love how men believe that they know how women are going to vote."[/b]
quote:
Originally posted by Sven:
[b]I'm not "slagging" anyone.[/b]
Oh no, not at all. [img]rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img]
quote:
Originally posted by remind:
[b]"women voters will vote for Palin"[/b]
Learn to read, will you, remind? The quality of this board would be vastly improved if you would undertake that simple endeavor.
How many times do I have to tell you that I haven't said "women voters will vote for Palin"?
Yet, you repeat it, ad nauseam.
quote:
Originally posted by remind:
[b]Oh no, not at all. [img]rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] [/b]
When I said, "I'm not "slagging" anyone", that was clearly in context of a group (women, blue-collar workers, etc.).
Was I "slagging" you? Absolutely. Because you can't read. You really can't, remind. You read what you want to read, not what is actually written.
quote:
I think it would be fair to say that blue-collar "Reagan Democrats" were a principal reason for Reagan being elected (and re-elected). It's a pretty well-accepted fact. And, it's (dare I say it?) ironic because they likely voted against their own economic interests.Is that "slagging" blue-collar workers who voted for Reagan? No. It's an observation.
I agree with Sven here.
I'm a Tommy Douglas socialist, and I find the voting tendancies of the working-class on this continent pretty disheartening. Then again, I can't blame them, since the "progressives" seem to go out of their way to make the working class look like a bunch of ignorant yahoos who shouldn't be allowed to vote.
Where are the lefty gunslingers who like to knock back a few beers, go to car and air shows, and cheer at football games?
I'm not the only one, am I?
Remind, this whole side bar started when you looked at the word "may" that I wrote and read it to mean "will". And, then you go blowing hot air about the injustic of it all.
Here's a suggestion: Get a dictionary. If you can't afford one, there's a good, free online version at [url=http://dictionary.reference.com/]dictionary.com[/url]. There, you can learn to distinguish between "will" and "may".
You can pretend all you want and continue to attack me, Sven, but you are tring to infer that women will vote for Palin. While trying to marginalize and silence a woman's voice with personal attacks too.
Moreover, deflecting away from Palin and what she stands for, always works in a pinch too, eh?! [img]rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img]
Do you support Palin, and the things she stands for:
1. Book banning
2. Using elected power to intimidate public employees
3. Alaska should separate from the USA
4. Destroying parks for oil exploration (well they might)
5. No sex ed in schools
6. Forced teen age marriages, and the prospective father who says: "I don't want kids".
Do you think middle Americans stand for those things too, Sven?
quote:
Originally posted by remind:
[b]you are tring to infer that women will vote for Palin[/b]
No, I'm not. Get a fucking clue (along with a dictionary), will ya?
[b][i]Some[/b][/i] women [b][i]will[/b][/i] vote for Palin. Will enough women vote for Palin to put her within a heartbeat of the president? It [b][i]may[/b][/i] happen or it [b][i]may not[/b][/i] happen. Only time will tell.
Is that clear or do I need to boil my senteces down to strings of one-syllable words?
More attacks, no answering of direct questions regarding what Palin stands for and a thread nearing 100 posts, good job Sven, way to deflect and manage the message!
Other than Alaska separating, there's an even chance that a good chunk of middle America will go for everything else on your list. The sad fact is, remind, that the American public voted for pretty much what you've got there when they put Bush in the White House -- not once, but twice.
IIRC, the "soccer mom" demographic was one that the Republican party courted somewhat successfully in order to obtain those victories. Soccer moms, last I checked, are women.
Sven's speculation doesn't seem all that out to lunch to me.
Openly gay congressman Barney Frank weighs in on the Palin controversy: [url=http://news.bostonherald.com/news/2008/view.bg?articleid=1116577&srvc=20...'Sarah Palin's Family Life is Fair Game'.[/url]
quote:
Republicans stressed Palin’s conservative family values in announcing her selection as John McCain’s running mate on Friday. Frank says the recent disclosure about her daughter blunts conservative claims that liberalism harms family life."Apparently she’s a great favorite with the conservative social movement," Frank said. "They have said that it’s liberalism and liberals who have undermined families — same-sex marriage has been a problem, they don’t want gay people to adopt ... This helps undercut those arguments."
On the one hand, I echo everyone who says that Bristol Palin is going to have a tough enough time as a young mother in the media spotlight, but on the other hand, given that the 'Moral Majority'-social conservative-'family values' crowd that the Palin selection was supposed to appease see nothing wrong with sticking their noses into people's private sexual lives, spewing hate against homosexuals, telling women what they can and cannot do with their bodies, and harping that sex education leads to promiscuity, Representative Frank's position is hard to argue with on some levels.
[ 02 September 2008: Message edited by: ghoris ]
![http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m243/birdmanesq/juneau.jpg[/img]](http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m243/birdmanesq/juneau.jpg[/img]){kind=link}