Afghanistan - Still losing the war, Part 9
Sun, 2008-09-07 08:57
#1
M. Spector
Afghanistan - Still losing the war, Part 9
Sun, 2008-09-07 08:57
#2
M. Spector
Legitimate successor to [url=http://www.rabble.ca/babble/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic&f=13&t=004233]this thread[/url].
quote:
The bearded, turbaned men gather beneath a large, leafy tree in rural eastern Nangarhar province. When Malik Mohammed speaks on their behalf, his voice is soft but his words are harsh. Mohammed makes it clear that the tribal chiefs have lost all faith in both their own government and the foreign soldiers in their country.Such disillusionment is widespread in Afghanistan, feeding an insurgency that has killed 195 foreign soldiers so far this year, 105 of them Americans.
"This is our land. We are afraid to send our sons out the door for fear the American troops will pick them up," says Mohammed, who was chosen by the others to represent them. "Daily we have headaches from the troops. We are fed up. Our government is weak and corrupt and the American soldiers have learned nothing."
A strong sense of frustration echoed through dozens of interviews by The Associated Press with Afghan villagers, police, government officials, tribal elders and Taliban who left and rejoined the religious movement. The interviews ranged from the capital, Kabul, to the rural regions near the border with Pakistan.
The overwhelming result: [b]Ordinary Afghans are deeply bitter about American and NATO forces because of errant bombs, heavy-handed searches and seizures and a sense that the foreigners do not understand their culture. They are equally fed up with what they see as seven years of corruption and incompetence in a U.S.-backed government that has largely failed to deliver on development.
Even with more foreign troops, Afghanistan is now less secure.[/b]
"It certainly is a mess. Security is the worst that it has been for years. Corruption is out of control. It impacts every single Afghan," says Doug Wankel, a burly 62-year-old American who coordinated Washington's anti-drug policy in Afghanistan from 2004 until 2007 and is now back as a security consultant. "What people have to understand is that what ordinary Afghans think really does matter."
The fear and fury is evident among the neighbors at Akhtar Mohammed's walled home deep within Nangarhar province, reached by a dirt road along a dirty brown canal. A dozen men lie on traditional rope beds beneath a thatched roof. Some wear the full-bodied beard of the devout, with a clean-shaven upper lip. Others have dyed their gray beards a flaming orange with henna to show that they have made the pilgrimage to the holy site of Mecca.
They live barely an hour's drive from an errant bombing last month that hit a wedding party and killed about 50 people. Khiel Shah says his home was raided two months earlier, and troops killed his nephew, a high school student.
An old man sits by moaning, "No, no, they weren't Taliban. They were going to the bathroom. They weren't even carrying guns."...
Inside the walled compound of the Independent Human Rights Commission in Kabul, workers are knee-deep in statistics that measure the dissatisfaction of Afghans. [b]An army of workers crisscrossed 33 of the country's 34 provinces and took the opinions of 15,200 people, mostly in rural areas.[/b] The survey has not been released, but Ahmad Nader Nadery, the commissioner, gave The AP a preview.
The survey, done annually for the past three years, shows [b]a steady deterioration in the social and economic stability of Afghans, Nadery says. Average debt last year was $1,000 and is now 20 percent higher. And up to 73 percent of Afghans say they cannot go to the government for help unless they have money or power.[/b]
"Elders say when they go to government officials, they face humiliation," Nadery says in his cramped ground floor office.
Najib, a policeman who asks not to be identified beyond his first name for fear of losing his job, reflects the general anger.
Since he joined Afghanistan's police force in 2001, he has been mistakenly bombed by a U.S. airplane that killed seven of his colleagues. He has paid bribes to government officials, he says, and taken bribes to balance his books. He recalls watching a friend buy a police job for $2,000, and notes that posts with better opportunities for bribery are available for upward of $10,000.
Corruption has made it easier for the Taliban to infiltrate police ranks and carry out lethal attacks, according to Najib.
"The president is crying, but nothing has changed," says Najib, who still walks with a limp from the U.S. bombing. "People are unhappy, and more and more it will become difficult for the Americans and good for the Taliban. These people (U.S. troops) are not making one mistake, but they are making one thousand mistakes and they are killing many people."...
"An Afghan trucker put it succinctly: 'Forget the Taliban, our biggest problems are with the police,'" says Seth Jones, an analyst with the U.S.-based RAND Corporation and author of a report on the rise of Afghanistan's insurgency....[url=http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2008/09/07-3]AP[/url]
Sun, 2008-09-07 09:04
#3
M. Spector
A Canadian Press-Harris Decima telephone survey of 1000 Canadians, taken before the recent deaths of three more soldiers in Afghanistan, shows opposition to the war is growing.
quote:
The survey found that 61 per cent of respondents believed the cost of the country's mission in lives and money has been unacceptable, while only one in three - 32 per cent - said it was acceptable.When asked overall, whether they would say the mission in Afghanistan has been a success, a failure or that it is too soon to tell, a majority of respondents, roughly 48 per cent, took the wait-and-see answer.
At least 30 per cent were prepared to categorically declare the mission a success.
It also appears that Canadians are resigned to carrying out the country's duty in Kandahar until 2011, but would oppose attempts to "lengthen or increase its commitment."
The survey said [b]57 per cent of respondents didn't want to stay longer in Afghanistan, even if the request came from United States.
And the results held steady no matter who in the White House was doing the asking - Republican John McCain or Democrat Barrack (sic) Obama.[/b]
Only 33 per cent said they would favour an extension. - [url=http://canadianpress.google.com/article/ALeqM5jNhOrJWoOaUOR61vK5BuGhMEJp..., Sept. 5
Sun, 2008-09-07 10:11
#4
M. Spector
[url=http://www.canada.com/cityguides/winnipeg/info/story.html?id=06dc418c-3f... Canadian soldier killed in Afghanistan today[/url]
Anyone else notice that most of the Canadian deaths recently seem to occur on weekends?
Counting the two aid workers and the diplomat, Sgt. Scott Shipway has the distinction of being the 100th Canadian to die to make Afghanistan safe for pipelines.
[ 07 September 2008: Message edited by: M. Spector ]
Sun, 2008-09-07 10:17
#5
M. Spector
[url=http://www.rabble.ca/news_full_story.shtml?x=74996]Vote for quagmire? Making the war an issue[/url]
- rabble news
Sun, 2008-09-07 11:24
#6
quote:
Originally posted by M. Spector:
[b][url=http://www.canada.com/cityguides/winnipeg/info/story.html?id=06dc418c-3f... Canadian soldier killed in Afghanistan today[/url][/b]
Thanks for posting this, M. Spector. Perhaps this would be a good occasion for some party to issue a statement calling for immediate withdrawal of Canada from Afghanistan - rather than just more eulogies and condolences?
Sun, 2008-09-07 11:44
#7
Right on, Unionist. Bring this fiasco front and centre. 97 dead Canadians; 100s wounded; thousands of dead civilians and who knows how many wounded. As note above, unsurprisingly, the tide of opinion in Afghanistan turns against those who do the most harm which is now the Yanks.
This is not a legitimate war, but a war legitimised by the American wish to engage in war. It is not "defensive" and the original plea for sanction was more a reaction against a single action then anything real.
Out now! Say it loud and say it again. Make the Bush toadies in Ottawa (Harperites and the Liberals) pay for this and pay for the negative impact on Canada's stature in the world.
Sun, 2008-09-07 12:09
#8
[url=http://afghanistan-canada-solidarity.org/founders-canada-afghanistan-sol... profile Canadians who support the "mission"[/url]
Don't know how I never noticed this before - it's the cynically-named "Canada Afghanistan Solidarity Committee", and it's dedicated to the "continuation of a robust military engagement" in Afghanistan.
Here are their "founding members". They include such worthy Canadians as Terry Glavin and Stan Persky. I'm including the whole list here in case they try to edit or deny it some day.
[b][i]Please contact some or all of these people and tell them they are doing a disservice to the people of Canada and Afghanistan:[/i][/b]
quote:
[b]Zachary Miles Baddorf[/b], Journalist in Vancouver; [b]Colette Belanger[/b], Canadian Women for Women in Afghanistan (CW4WA) Board of Directors, Simon Bessette, LL.B candidate, University of New Brunswick; [b]Melaney Black[/b], CW4WA, Victoria; [b]Natalie K Bjorklund[/b], Ph.D, University of Manitoba; [b]Marc-Andre Boivin[/b], researcher, Universitй du Quйbec а Montrйal Peacekeeping research group member; [b] John Boon[/b], Liberal Party activist; [b]Ken Bryant[/b], Associate Professor, Asian Studies, University of British Columbia; [b]Jennifer Button[/b], CW4WA – Victoria; [b]Iona Campagnolo[/b], PC, CM, OBC, Former Lt. Gov., British Columbia; [b]Dominic Cardy[/b], NGO director, Nepal, New Brunswick New Democratic Party; [b]Mark Collins[/b], Canadian Embassy, Kabul, 1975-77; [b]Natasha Cowan[/b], McGill University, business graduate; [b]Stewart John Cunningham[/b], Sess. Instructor, Historical Studies, U of T Mississauga; [b]Steven Davis[/b], Academics for Higher Education and Development, Montreal; [b]Judith Desautels[/b], Supporter, CW4WA, Amnesty International; [b]Janice Eisenhauer[/b], Executive Director, CW4WA; [b]Lois Edwards[/b], CW4WA, Manitoba;
Sun, 2008-09-07 12:26
#9
M. Spector
A wall of shame!
Sun, 2008-09-07 13:39
#10
Stan Persky???? Makes no sense at all. He has more brains then to be mystified by nonsense after seeing and knowing Viet Nam up close. I assume as a "founding member" he had a view years ago, but being a scholar, Stan will have weighed the data since then.
Sun, 2008-09-07 13:46
#11
Stan Persky has been pretty consistent in supporting the Canadian war against Afghanistan, unfortunately - and in associating himself with that creep Glavin. [url=http://www.dooneyscafe.com/content/view/552/2/]Here[/url] is a piece co-authored by the two of them on May 7, 2008. It's long, but clear. Persky said:
quote:
So, my leftist bottom line is: a campaign to restore the social democratic state in Canada, and international solidarity, proceeding with all due caution. That notion of international solidarity includes support for the Canadian mission in Afghanistan. And like you, I haven’t heard a persuasive leftist (or rightest) case against it.
The misspelling of "rightist" may be an unconscious indication that Persky is no longer clear on what the word means...
Sun, 2008-09-07 13:57
#12
Sad, He was a person I had a great deal of time for in a previos life. Seems, we would now have a stormy gulf in opinion on (in my mind) a critical issue. Where he sees social progress (or a hope for it)at the point of a machine gun, I see a very long process of discussion and debate (while clean water an and food are made available). Killing people tends to freeze their thought processes and encourage others, not change them.
Sun, 2008-09-07 20:26
#13
M. Spector
quote:
The August 22 massacre of civilians is the worst single incident in the past seven years. At the rate civilians are killed in Afghanistan, with little or no condemnations from Nato countries which form the core of the ISAF, one wonders whether the Afghans are lesser mortals. Imagine what would happen if a terrorist kills 95 US citizens or citizens of any of the Nato countries. Such a massacre would have dominated the headlines for weeks, if not months. Giving a melodramatic touch, the western media would also carry photographs of the dead children, interviews with their neighbours, friends and teachers and statements of grieving parents and political leaders. But 60 Afghan children who died in the US attack had none of it. [b]No speaker addressing the ongoing Democratic Party convention, where anti-Iraq-war-and-pro-Afghan-war Barack Obama is being officially anointed as the candidate of the party, dared to mention the Afghan civilian massacre, though they talked about US troops serving in Afghanistan and Iraq.[/b]The deaths of Afghan children were largely a news-in-brief item on major western television channels.
It is not only the US troops who kill civilians in Afghanistan. The British, the Canadians and others in the ISAF also kill civilians with impunity and later say "sorry" and promise compensation after investigations. Very little happen after these empty words.
[url=http://www.dailymirror.lk/DM_BLOG/Sections/frmNewsDetailView.aspx?ARTID=...
Mon, 2008-09-08 12:34
#14
[url=http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article20705.htm]Massacre[/url]
quote:
As the doctor walks between rows of bodies, people lift funeral shrouds to reveal the faces of children and babies, some with severe head injuries.Women are heard wailing in the background. “Oh God, this is just a child,” shouts one villager. Another cries: “My mother, my mother.”
quote:
The US military said that its findings were corroborated by an independent journalist embedded with the US force. [b]He was named as the Fox News correspondent Oliver North,[/b]
Mon, 2008-09-08 13:02
#15
quote:
It is not only the US troops who kill civilians in Afghanistan. The British, the Canadians and others in the ISAF also kill civilians with impunity and later say "sorry" and promise compensation after investigations. Very little happen after these empty words.
Don't forget to include the Taliban who kill a lot more and don't bother with 'sorry', going straight to bragging about their atrocities.
Rather than very little happening in these cases, the bragging is immediately seized upon by the usual crowd as a legitimate example of 'losing the war'.
Mon, 2008-09-08 15:50
#16
quote:
Originally posted by jester:
[b]Don't forget to include the Taliban who kill a lot more and don't bother with 'sorry', going straight to bragging about their atrocities.[/b]
They have a right to kill each other. We have no right to join in. It's a little something called international law.
Anyway, if you believe invaders' stats about casualties, you must also believe that there were 90 "Taliban" women and children celebrating a wedding for a short while recently.
Mon, 2008-09-08 16:46
#17
quote:
Don't forget to include the Taliban who kill a lot more and don't bother with 'sorry', going straight to bragging about their atrocities.
When the Taliban use AC-130 gunships to level villages from 5000 feet, then you can complain about their tactics.
By far the most lethal killer of civilians in Afghanistan is the Army of Christ, a.k.a the US military.
Mon, 2008-09-08 18:35
#18
quote:
Originally posted by Jingles:
[b]When the Taliban use AC-130 gunships to level villages from 5000 feet, then you can complain about their tactics.
By far the most lethal killer of civilians in Afghanistan is the Army of Christ, a.k.a the US military.[/b]
I'll complain at my discretion, not yours, thank you. The most lethal killer of civilians in Afghanistan may well be the USA but if they are,the Taliban are right behind them.
Why is it that deaths and injuries, especially women and children caused by the US and its NATO allies stir a great outcry from the faithful but far greater deaths and injuries caused by indiscriminate suicide bombers are ignored?
What about all the civilians killed by the Taliban in Pakistan?
Do children maimed by insurgents not rate compassion? What about the civilian Afghans who are murdered for teaching school or providing health services? Not a word about them.
Mon, 2008-09-08 19:04
#19
quote:
Originally posted by jester:
[b]
Why is it that deaths and injuries, especially women and children caused by the US and its NATO allies stir a great outcry from the faithful but far greater deaths and injuries caused by indiscriminate suicide bombers are ignored?[/b]
a) Because you have no clue about the numbers and are making them up based on half-heard lies from invaders; b) because the Afghan people have the right to settle their scores and determine their mode of government domestically without your favourite foreign armies' kind assistance.
quote:
[b]What about all the civilians killed by the Taliban in Pakistan?[/b]
None of your business. Pakistan is in charge of Pakistan. It's a tough concept, I know, but persistent reflection may allow some light to be shed on those dark areas of the brain.
quote:
[b]Do children maimed by insurgents not rate compassion?[/b]
Indeed, but not armed intervention. Facts show that children were not being maimed by insurgents before the foreigners invaded.
quote:
[b]What about the civilian Afghans who are murdered for teaching school or providing health services? Not a word about them.[/b]
1) You made that up. 2) If you didn't, it's none of your business. I know your sense of morality and education and health is far superior to that of the Afghans, but they're the ones you'll have to convince. It's their country.
Mon, 2008-09-08 19:27
#20
You know [url=http://www.economist.com/world/asia/displaystory.cfm?story_id=12009906]"The Mission"[/url] is in trouble when even [i]The Economist[/i] becomes critical:
quote:
IF AMERICA fails in Afghanistan, as it might, it will be remembered there for killing children. On August 26th the UN claimed to have “convincing evidence” that an American airstrike in western Herat province had killed 90 civilians, including 60 children.That would make it probably the most bloody of America’s many murderous airstrikes during its seven-year campaign in Afghanistan. But American officials insisted that only five civilians had died, along with 25 militants.
...Afghans are understandably enraged—which is excellent news for the Taliban. To deflect blame for the latest alleged atrocity, on August 25th several Afghan ministers called for a ban on airstrikes.
Hamid Karzai, the president, who has many times pleaded with America to take more care to avoid killing Afghan civilians, wants its troops to be made accountable for any errors they may make.
Mon, 2008-09-08 19:53
#21
quote:
Originally posted by unionist:
[b]1) You made that up. 2) If you didn't, it's none of your business. I know your sense of morality and education and health is far superior to that of the Afghans, but they're the ones you'll have to convince. It's their country.[/b]
Ah. Killing children is ok in one's own country as long as its not the 'invaders' doing it.
So,everything the Taliban says is gospel and everything contrary to the Taliban position is 'made up'.
Do you get your instructions from the Mullahs or the ISI?
Mon, 2008-09-08 20:05
#22
[url=http://uk.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUKN0848629620080909]Crazy George isn't done yet.[/url]
quote:
"In November, a Marine battalion that was scheduled to deploy to Iraq will instead deploy to Afghanistan," according to the speech text. "It will be followed in January by an Army combat brigade."
Thats 5,000 more troops. Crazy George says he'll leave the rest to the next pres. Maybe they can take over in Kandahar.
Mon, 2008-09-08 21:29
#23
quote:
Originally posted by jester:
[b]Ah. Killing children is ok in one's own country as long as its not the 'invaders' doing it.[/b]
No it's not "ok". But if you invade and start shooting people in response, it's "ok" for the locals to deal with you in impolite manner. Do you get that distinction?
quote:
[b]So,everything the Taliban says is gospel and everything contrary to the Taliban position is 'made up'.[/b]
No, I go by reports of U.N. and Afghan officials - you know, the kind your U.S. sources routinely deny until caught with their pants down? I don't pay attention to Taliban claims, and in fact we rarely see any in the media.
quote:
[b]Do you get your instructions from the Mullahs or the ISI?[/b]
You ask questions like someone who knows all about getting instructions. I actually think freely. I don't get easily blackmailed by sob stories about women, children, incubators, WMD, Saddam torture chambers, and all the other pretexts loved by you and those like you for aggression. I can see through that, because I pay attention to history. Try it sometime. It's refreshing.
Mon, 2008-09-08 21:33
#24
quote:
Originally posted by unionist:I don't pay attention to Taliban claims, and in fact we rarely see any in the media.
Have you ever tried looking? There are plenty of sites hosting Taliban views and claims.
[ 08 September 2008: Message edited by: Webgear ]
Mon, 2008-09-08 21:44
#25
quote:
Originally posted by Webgear:
[b]Have you ever tried looking? There are plenty of sites hosting Taliban views and claims.[/b]
No - why should I? The independent reports, and those of U.N. and Afghan officials, plus various NGOs, are sufficient to illustrate the bloodthirsty criminal behaviour of the U.S. and its allies. If you are aware of Taliban stats about murder of civilians, feel free to post them. They can't possibly look worse than what we already see.
Wed, 2008-09-10 06:54
#26
Boom Boom
Speaking of the Taliban: [url=http://www.cbc.ca/news/canadavotes/story/2008/09/10/afghan-election.html... leaders blast Taliban remarks on Canadian election[/url]
excerpt:
The Taliban spokesman said earlier that Canada has come under U.S. influence.
"Our message to the Canadian leaders, the Canadian people, the Canadian government and all the Canadians is that they should not send their sons to Afghanistan, where they will die for the benefit of the Americans," Qari Muhammad Yussef told CBC News in Kandahar.
If Canadian forces do not withdraw, he said, "Afghanistan will be a graveyard for them — as it was for them in the past."
Yussef said he's familiar with Harper but isn't sure about the other candidates or parties running in the election.
ETA: oops, I didn't see this other thread, where this is already being discussed: [b]The Election and Afghanistan [/b]. [img]redface.gif" border="0[/img]
[ 10 September 2008: Message edited by: Boom Boom ]
Wed, 2008-09-10 08:05
#27
[url=http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080910.wfnelxntorie... Ups the Ante[/url]
quote:
Conservative Leader Stephen Harper is vowing his government would completely withdraw Canadian troops from Afghanistan in 2011 -- a promise that goes beyond a Parliamentary motion this year which merely committed to pull soldiers out of Kandahar province.Military analysts have warned it's a bad idea strategically to set a definite end date for withdrawing from Afghanistan but Mr. Harper says he thinks even the Canadian military wants to quit the country in 2011.
The statement is a change for Mr. Harper, who had acknowledged in April that it was possible down the road that Canada's NATO allies might ask Ottawa to extend its Afghan commitment beyond 2011.
The March 13 2008 resolution, backed by both the Conservatives and Liberals, said: “The government of Canada notify NATO that Canada will end its presence in Kandahar as of July 2011, add, as of that date, the redeployment of Canadian Forces troops out of Kandahar and their replacement by Afghan forces start as soon as possible, so that it will have been completed by December 2011.”
Good. The next step is to reduce exposure to Canadian troops by having them mentor Afghan forces and provide force protection only. Let crazy George clean up his own mess.
Thu, 2008-09-11 15:20
#28
[url=http://www.rabble.ca/columnists_full.shtml?x=75196]Murder in Afghanistan[/url]
Thu, 2008-09-11 15:23
#29
Good story, Jerry. Now the only thing is to figure out how to implement your last sentence.
Fri, 2008-09-12 09:18
#30
[url=http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/sep/12/usforeignpolicy.usa]George's secret order.[/url]
quote:
A secret order issued by George Bush giving US special forces carte blanche to mount counter-terrorist operations inside Pakistani territory raised fears last night that escalating conflict was spreading from Afghanistan to Pakistan and could ignite a region-wide war.
quote:
The move is regarded as unprecedented in terms of sending troops into a friendly, allied country.
It's like the US Cavalry crossing into Saskatchewan and Alberta to hunt down Sitting Bull.
Don't worry though. Next, we'll go with the Americans into Pakistan to make sure little girls can go to school. If they don't want to go, we'll kill them.
Fri, 2008-09-12 10:19
#31
M. Spector
Thanks for the link, Jingles. I've posted a reference to it also in [url=http://www.rabble.ca/babble/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=13&t=004232]this thread.[/url]
Fri, 2008-09-12 11:39
#32
[url=http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=10144]9-11 and the "American Inquisition"[/url]
quote:
Anybody who doubts the legitimacy of the American inquisition (9/11 and the "Global War on Terrorism") is a heretic conspiracy theorist or an accomplice of the terrorists.The American Inquisition is part of a Bipartisan Consensus. Both the Democrats and the Republicans support the American Inquisition. . .
[b]How to reverse the tide? [/b]
Undermine the Inquisition;
Reveal the lies behind 9/11;
Break the consensus;
Reveal the Crimes committed by those in High Office;
Unseat the inquisitors:
I agree with this. And I tend to fear people like Donald Rumsfeld who said several months ago, in so many words, that the "correction" for lowered American fears of another 9-11 style attack would be another attack. Rule by fear mongering to justify extorting hundreds of billions of dollars from taxpayers on an annual basis was their way during the cold war, and it continues unabated, and it has to stop.
Fri, 2008-09-12 12:46
#33
Worth a read:
[url=http://www.fpif.org/fpiftxt/5527]Danger In South Asia[/url]
Sun, 2008-09-14 19:45
#34
M. Spector
quote:
They call them the Bandi Guantanamo, the Guantanamo returnees, and their welcome home is far from warm. All across Afghanistan in recent months, scores of men have been coming back from a long journey halfway around the world. About 100 have been released from Guantanamo Bay by the United States authorities in the last 12 months as Washington, under mounting pressure from governments around the world, attempts to moderate the damage done to America's image by the Cuba-based detention centre.After more than five years in detention thousands of miles away, often traumatised, often angry, or just broken and poor, the Bandi Guantanamo try to build new lives, with limited success. Most claim innocence. Others are unashamed of their acts of violence. Interviewed in Kabul last month, Mohammed Umar described how he had been trained in terrorist techniques, met Osama bin Laden and fought at the battle of Tora Bora in 2001. Released 10 weeks ago, he spoke of how angry the presence of his former jailers in his homeland made him. "If they have come here to help us, why do they kill civilians and why can't they even provide electricity to Kabul seven years after invading?" asked the 30-year-old former footballer, arrested in Pakistan during the closing days of the war of 2001.
Almost all the former detainees describe mistreatment - ranging from waterboarding - the repeated half-drowning of prisoners to get them to talk - through to beatings, sleep deprivation, being kept in 'stress positions' and exposure to extreme temperatures for long periods. Most say that the worst abuse occurred in the US bases in Afghanistan, notably in the eastern and southern cities of Jalalabad and Kandahar, or at the logistics centre of Bagram airfield, where a 500-capacity makeshift prison was built. American military spokesmen in Afghanistan deny any mistreatment. - [url=http://thepost.com.pk/IntNewsT.aspx?dtlid=183181&catid=1]The Post (Pakistan)[/url]
Sun, 2008-09-14 19:58
#35
[url=http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20080914/afghanistan... bomber kills 3 UN workers in Afghanistan[/url]
SPIN BOLDAK, Afghanistan -- A suicide bomber in a vehicle attacked a convoy carrying Afghan doctors working for the United Nations in southern Afghanistan, killing two doctors and their driver and wounding 15 others.
The Taliban claimed responsibility.....
The two doctors were under contract to the UN World Health Organization, combatting polio in Afghanistan, said Adrian Edwards, the chief UN spokesman in the country.
The driver also worked for the UN mission. All three were Afghan nationals, Edwards said.
The attack happened in the Spin Boldak district of Kandahar province as the convoy was on its way to vaccinate people, said provincial Police Chief Matiullah Khan.
The blast also wounded 15 other people, including 10 civilians and five Afghan guards protecting the convoy, Khan said. The bomber also died in the blast.
Khan said the doctors were travelling in clearly marked UN vehicles.
Sun, 2008-09-14 20:04
#36
quote:
Originally posted by Webgear:
[b][url=http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20080914/afghanistan... bomber kills 3 UN workers in Afghanistan[/url][/b]
The U.S., Canada, all of NATO, and the so-called government of Afghanistan are increasingly incapable of providing elementary security to even humanitarian workers.
Time for them all to step aside and let someone else do the job.
Thanks for the item confirming that point, Webgear.
Sun, 2008-09-14 20:13
#37
You are correct, the UN is not able to provide security to its own mandate, we should increase our forces in Afghanistan especially southern Afghanistan.
How would you prevent suicide attacks?
What ratio of soldiers to Humanitarian workers would you like? I believe Dawn Black and the NDP will be calling for more soldiers to protect aid workers.
(note this is all sarcasm)
Sun, 2008-09-14 20:20
#38
[url=http://www.edmontonsun.com/canadavotes/news/2008/09/14/6764976.html]Layton warns Canadians: Don’t trust Harper[/url]
quote:
“I think Canadians should be very concerned that Mr. Harper would be choosing an election time to be making such a commitment,” Layton said.“Can we really trust Stephen Harper when it comes to bringing an end to the conflict and now suddenly becoming a champion of peace?
[b]This is a prime minister who wanted us to follow George Bush into Iraq. I don’t believe he can be trusted and I don’t think that Canadians will be fooled,”[/b] he said.
Layton promised voters yesterday that, should he become prime minister, the NDP would immediately meet with Canadian Forces commanders and develop a plan to pull Canadian troops out of Afghanistan.
Sun, 2008-09-14 20:26
#39
quote:
Originally posted by Fidel:
[b] Layton promised voters yesterday that, should he become prime minister, the NDP would immediately meet with Canadian Forces commanders and develop a plan to pull Canadian troops out of Afghanistan.
[/b]
That does not sound like an immediate withdrawal, sort of sounds like a slow and steady pull out.
Sun, 2008-09-14 20:30
#40
[url=http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20080913/josh_robert... soldier killed by insurgents, not friendly fire[/url]
Military investigators say Saskatchewan-born Cpl. Josh Roberts died in Afghanistan from insurgent fire, not by stray bullets fired from a passing convoy of private security personnel.
Based on the physical evidence, witness interviews and analysis by the Military Police investigators, the investigation concluded that his death was inflicted by the insurgents," the Canadian Forces National Investigation Service (CFNIS) said in a press release Saturday.
Sun, 2008-09-14 20:32
#41
It sounds like an abdication of authority.
The Prime Minister says "out of Afghanistan now", and the military says "Yes Sir". End of story.
The Military answers to the civilian government, not the other way around. Layton had better get his shit squared away.
If he's gonna Obama himself, he's no better than a Dion.
Sun, 2008-09-14 20:36
#42
quote:
Originally posted by Webgear:
[b]That does not sound like an immediate withdrawal, sort of sounds like a slow and steady pull out.[/b]
Apparently the Soviets began to consider pulling out in 1985 and actually did so between 1987 and 1989. But they had a lot more troops in the Stan than NATO countries do today. I imagine 2500 Canadians troops could be pulled out in pretty good time.
Sun, 2008-09-14 20:40
#43
quote:
Originally posted by Jingles:
[b]It sounds like an abdication of authority.The Prime Minister says "out of Afghanistan now", and the military says "Yes Sir". End of story.
The Military answers to the civilian government, not the other way around. Layton had better get his shit squared away.If he's gonna Obama himself, he's no better than a Dion.[/b]
Obama and Jack are now buddies, if both Obama and Jack wins the election, we both know the troops are staying or at the very least withdrawn at a very slow timeframe.
Sun, 2008-09-14 20:42
#44
quote:
Originally posted by Fidel:
[b]Apparently the Soviets began to consider pulling out in 1985 and actually did so between 1987 and 1989. But they had a lot more troops in the Stan than NATO countries do today. I imagine 2500 Canadians troops could be pulled out in pretty good time.[/b]
How many days/months do you think it would take to remove 2500-3000 soldiers and thier equipment?
Sun, 2008-09-14 20:47
#45
quote:
Originally posted by Webgear:
[b]Obama and Jack are now buddies, if both Obama and Jack wins the election, we both know the troops are staying or at the very least withdrawn at a very slow timeframe.[/b]
Obama understands full well his role in the American empire project. Obama is another third rate Liberal Democrat, like Steve Dion is waiting in the wings for a call from the plutocracy that won't come. The two party system there is pretty much duplicated here and just scaled down somewhat. It's as much a charade here as there.
Sun, 2008-09-14 20:50
#46
I hope the NDP wins the election nect month, this way we can see what Jack's plan really is.
Fidel... I bet you a beer that everything I have stated over the last few months is correct.
Sun, 2008-09-14 20:50
#47
M. Spector
quote:
Originally posted by Webgear:
[b]How many days/months do you think it would take to remove 2500-3000 soldiers and thier equipment?[/b]
I don't exactly know, but I'm willing to find out.
Sun, 2008-09-14 20:59
#48
quote:
Originally posted by M. Spector:
[b]I don't exactly know, but I'm willing to find out.[/b]
Take an educated guess?
Sun, 2008-09-14 21:00
#49
quote:
Originally posted by Webgear:
[b]I hope the NDP wins the election nect month, this way we can see what Jack's plan really is.[/b]
Pullout. The NDP will be pressing for this win-win strategy until Crazy Jorge's misguided occupation finally does come to an end.
quote:
[b]Fidel... I bet you a beer that everything I have stated over the last few months is correct.[/b]
You're on
Sun, 2008-09-14 21:02
#50
quote:
Originally posted by Webgear:
[b]Take an educated guess?[/b]
Not two years.
Sun, 2008-09-14 21:07
#51
3,6 or 9 months?