Ecosocialism II

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ElizaQ ElizaQ's picture

quote:


Originally posted by M. Spector:
[QB]It's very hard to have a discussion when people keep shifting their ground.

I find it bizarre that people who acknowledge the need for revolutionary action to save the world don't think it should be mentioned in an election campaign by Canada's major party of the left.


By people I'm going it assume you mean more then ItsmeD. I didn't say anything along those lines.
Here's a question. Have you been working with the NDP to get this expressed. To change it in this direction. If so, how is that work going?
I think it wouldn't be wonderful if they would talk about it. Wish they would. Don't see it happening though at least not this election, it's to late for that.

quote:

Instead of an explanation, I got lectures about the limits of electoralism, as if there were some obvious alternative at this point in time (i.e., on the one hand you have the federal electoral process, and on the other you have....um, nothing, really).

No not lectures, just some attempts at explanation. That you don't see some of the alternatives given as anything important doesn't mean they are nothing.

quote:

So it seems to me that talking about the obvious limitations of electoral politics ("the system is rigged", "can't play by old rules", "the solution will not be achieved by voting", etc.) is being used as an excuse for complete political inaction. That's what I mean by "shunning" electoral politics.

It's nothing to do with "priorities" because the higher priority is what? Organizing community food cooperatives and barter exchange systems is an admirable endeavour, but it is not making the revolution either. It's not even political action in any kind of sense that builds mass support for social change.


Really? You're really sure about that? First off on a purely base level, working at ensuring people actually have food to eat and will continue having good access to food IS a priority. Our food system is in trouble with some of the things that are potentially coming down the line eating and getting reasonably priced food to people is going to be important. We have to start seriously looking at it now and set the foundations to deal with what is likely coming. The change in this realm does not happen over night. You can't just wake up one day and go, 'oh damn, food' let's change.

The way that we eat and how it's produced, the base systems, are political. It's also something that can get to the masses because everyone eats. It's one thing that all people have in common. When people start really looking into what they eat and where it comes from, it's probably one of the most politicizing issues that I've ever come across. Start by talking about a tomato and you can take people almost anywhere in the political realm that you want to go. Want to talk on a meta level about imperialism, capitalism or widespread ecological issues with people that in most other cases would never even broach the subject or see the connection to their daily lives? Start with the beans and bananas from south America they buy in the store. I've been working at consciousness raising in many different mileus for almost twenty years now and I wish I figured out the food connection a heck of lot sooner.

Take a look at the growing awareness about 'local' food. Is it at the mass level yet? No, but it sure is growing like crazy, both in urban mileus and rural ones. In my area the demand actually outweighs the supply right now. The farmers market pretty much sell out each week and in talking to the people that actually grow the produce they say that they don't actually have enough in the ground to meet the desire.

Food cooperatives may be a simplistic term because it's about much more then that. It's not only about organizing a space for the food to come to but about working at supporting a more localized economy, the establishment of new smaller scale growers, working with established farmers in creative ways, dealing with general food and health policies and bylaws at the municipal level on up to the Federal, establishing systems to get good healthy food to people at lower income levels, teaching people the skills to grow their own food, dealing with local environmental issues, ecological building and production, establishing community seed banks, establishing community currencies and exchange systems, dealing with transportation issues, community cooking and foodsaving programs, the best being where seniors who have these old skills teach younger people and on and on. Through all of this 'politics' is at it's core and it does change how people operate and think about their most basic of daily lives.

I can see how all of this awareness is building part of a base for a jump when the crunch comes.
Is it the whole solution? No of course not, but changing how we eat, produce and supply our food is going to be part of the social change needed. It's one of our most basic necessities of life.

It's Me D

Very well said ElizaQ, there is lots we can do that is more significant than just voting NDP and waiting for the Party to save the day. Local consumption planning is starting to become mainstream in small town Nova Scotia; if citizens, municipal politicians, and adminstrators keep working for it we may have a sustainable alternative to our current consumption patterns ready to go when/if the political will for such ever surfaces at the Federal level. I too am curious how Spector is doing with building that will in Federal politics; I hope he's having more success than is apparent as an observer anyway [img]smile.gif" border="0[/img]

ElizaQ ElizaQ's picture

Umm.. M.Spector that article pretty much supports everything I've been saying.

" Even if the goal is an ecosocialist society, we must remember that this is not relevant during the initial stage, because people do not usually lend their support to what they construe as abstractions, but rather mobilise behind real changes in their everyday life. Therefore it is important to support concrete demands from the public which go against the capitalist logic. Political parties do not necessarily have to be the driving force, but people who put forth concrete demands from their own experience."

Yep pretty much what I work on. Setting up the personal experience and the demand at higher levels follows.

ElizaQ ElizaQ's picture

quote:


Originally posted by M. Spector:
[b]Like I said before, my objection is to this thesis, put forward by It's Me D: That's completely incompatible with what Michael Lцwy is saying.

I still haven't seen you disagree with It's Me D on that point.[/b]


I haven't disagreed because overall I see her point as being pretty similar to Lowy's. She's put a lot more context behind that quote. If the current NDP was to suddenly take on an ecosocialist mandate, it would be wiped out. It doesn't have the populist backing.
That doesn't discount some of the environmental things it is pushing for and something is better then nothing. It's a start.

quote:


Even if the goal is an ecosocialist society, we must remember that this is not relevant during the initial stage, because people do not usually lend their support to what they construe as abstractions, but rather mobilise behind real changes in their everyday life. Therefore it is important to support concrete demands from the public which go against the capitalist logic. Political parties do not necessarily have to be the driving force, but people who put forth concrete demands from their own experience.

We cannot mobilise people for an ecosocialist revolution now, but instead we begin with making concrete and direct demands to those in charge in order to decrease global warming. For instance, if a government does not support international climate treaties, the first priority is to remove the government since it ignores climate science, and replace it with one that does not, even if it is a bourgeois one.


Lowy here states quite explictdly that political parties don't have to be the driving force but that the it's the people "from their own experience' that makes the demands on them. If there isn't that 'life experience' to make the demands from then it's only abstract and he states people don't mobilize on abstractions. I totally agree.

What both D and I have been saying is that working on those grassroots 'life experiences' that by nature challenge the in grained systems then there are places where people can make concrete demands on the political parties. The NDP or whomever.
It's not about political disengagement it's about engaging politically on different levels.

It's not going to do one whit of good if the NDP suddenly puts out a complete eco-socialist platform right now because most people won't know what the heck they're talking about and any good that they can do right now is wiped out because they don't get into office.
That doesn't mean though, that as Lowy says, that you don't make concrete demands based on socialist principles in steps.

It's Me D

ElizaQ can you be my spokesperson? [img]wink.gif" border="0[/img] You seem to have a knack for expressing most of what I'm trying to say without being quite so confrontational.

I'm disappointed by Spector's apparent decision to ignore me from now on [img]frown.gif" border="0[/img] I generally find him to be one of my favorite babblers to talk too. Election time seems to make everyone here a little crazy though...

ElizaQ ElizaQ's picture

quote:


Originally posted by M. Spector:
Lцwy said: How difficult is it to see that Lцwy is saying the [b]first priority[/b] is to remove a government that ignores climate science and replace it with one that doesn't? He's talking about [b]electing a different party to power - "even if it is a bourgeois one".[/b] He specifically refers to the election of the Labour party in Australia.

Obviously just as difficult for you to see that he supports what I'm saying as well. I will be voting for the NDP on this very principle. Get the Cons out. As I stated several times now, at least having a party, the NDP, in there means that there is a party that supports climate science and other base environmental issues. It's not an either or thing.

quote:

By what stretch of the imagination does this imply that "political parties don't have to be the driving force"

Um...because he says it. I was using his words.

quote:

Political parties do not necessarily have to be the driving force, but people who put forth concrete demands from their own experience.

We cannot mobilise people for an ecosocialist revolution now, but instead we begin with making concrete and direct demands to those in charge in order to decrease global warming.


He talks about people making demands from their own 'experience' and gives several examples of people working from their experience and making demands. Getting the labour party into power is only one example. He also uses other examples about more local issues:

quote:

We must hence fight for concrete local demands, as in Ecuador where the indigenous people stopped oil companies pumping up the oil, or like the Parisians demanding free public transportation, or peasants in Brazil fighting deforestation of the rain forest. All such demands are important and must be supported.

quote:

Lцwy is saying the exact opposite! He's talking about what ecosocialists have to do [b]today[/b] while we're waiting for the revolution to happen.

He's not standing on the sidelines like a sectarian purist, telling us to ignore electoral politics, but showing us how to turn it to our use. Lцwy would be the last person to agree with D that "The NDP cannot, and should not call for [ecosocialist solutions]."


Neither D or I have suggested ignoring electoral politics altogether nor are we talking about just standing on the sidelines. Far from it.
What we have said is that in order to get electoral politics to the point where it will start adopting eco-socialist principles you have to build a political base on issue or people's life experience where such demands can be made from.

This doesn't mean that it's not important to have people hounding the parties at the policy level to change. It's NOT one or the other. It's just as important for people to be working at other political levels to build the foundations of real physical change at other political levels.

In all those example that Lowry gave there were people active in whatever community building the necessary mass to make the demands at the electoral level. They didn't just pop into existence one day.

I also think its a misinterpretation to say that Lowry is saying what to do while we wait for the revolution. He's talking about how to work towards a revolution. If that's what he is saying then I totally disagree with him on that point. Revolutions just don't happen out of no where. They are built. He says:

quote:

[b]With every victory we have to put forth new demands in a dynamic process, which increasingly challenges the capitalist logic.[/b]

That's not waiting for it to happen that's moving towards it happening one victory at a time.

You've still missed the context of D's quote. He isn't discounting that the NDP 'could' adopt the principles you want, just that if they did it all now, like instantly, like this election, that it wouldn't work. Why? Because they don't have enough of a base populous that would support them. They don't have enough people making those 'demands' that Lowry talks about to go entirely eco-socialist. Without that support, the votes, they wouldn't get in. So any good that they can do NOW, with policies that they have in the present, would be for naught.
Do you honestly think that if the NDP came out tomorrow with a completely revamped eco-socialist policy statements that they would be elected?
Realistically, they wouldn't.
That's the only point.


quote:

Your interpretation is bizarre; but I must say, you are a great spokesperson for It's Me D (who identifies as male, BTW).

I apologize for the gender mixup. I didn't know an automatically put she because I have two female friends that go by D. Honest mistake.

We have many issues facing us, most of which are connected with climate change. I think maybe the problem here is that your just discounting the myriad of different things that have to be addressed. That you seem to be dismissing the issue or food and food production as not 'political' enough and just some sort personal thing is actually rather distressing. Our industrial capitalist food system is actually directly connected with our climate and other environmental issues. We go through a lot of oil to get our food. How we live day to day, the houses we live in, the buildings we work in all are connected with climate change. Those things can be dealt both at the upper levels of Federal politics and also down at a community level.

I'm also quite aware that in the situation we are now that we are not going to stop climate change outright. The wheels are in motion. How this effects us remains to be seen. We have to prepare for the change that is coming and one of those major changes is going to be entirely around our food supply. This will entail a lot of social change, not all of which can come just from the top down. Without being able to feed people that really precludes having any real revolution.

I actually look at lot at Cuba and it's example. The changes that it had to go through in it's systems in order to support it's revolution show us a lot. Cuba had to de-industrialize and de-capitalize it's food system rapidly because of outside forces. Overnight access to things like industrial fertilizer, equipment and oil disappeared and there system now largely organic. They are also eons ahead on adapting principles of permaculture to day to day living. It's not perfect but we can learn a lot from how they've managed to do it.

[ 25 September 2008: Message edited by: ElizaQ ]

Doug

Trying to implement some sort of Stalinist forced march to sustainability (The patriotic Mr. Stakhanov keeps HIS lights off all the time, be like him...but if you don't the Green Police will break your fingers so you can't turn them on again...) will either fail - or work only in the worst way possible - that is, we're definitely meeting our emissions targets because we collapsed civilization. Sorry, but there's no other effective way to go about this than by convincing a majority of people that things have to change.

Frustrated Mess Frustrated Mess's picture

Really? So people need their fingers broken to obey traffic lights? We need goons to kneecap people who just won't obey any of our nation's laws? If we didn't have brownshirts everyone would be snorting cocaine?

What a stupid argument. Law, not persuasion, is the only effective tool for directing social policy and changing behaviour. That is why we are a nation of laws rather than a nation of persuaded volunteers.

ElizaQ ElizaQ's picture

quote:


Originally posted by Doug:
[b]Trying to implement some sort of Stalinist forced march to sustainability (The patriotic Mr. Stakhanov keeps HIS lights off all the time, be like him...but if you don't the Green Police will break your fingers so you can't turn them on again...) will either fail - or work only in the worst way possible - that is, we're definitely meeting our emissions targets because we collapsed civilization. Sorry, but there's no other effective way to go about this than by convincing a majority of people that things have to change.[/b]

Where on earth did that come from? Was somebody in this thread even suggesting such a thing? *scratches head*

Noah_Scape

Obviously a vital topic, judging by the number of replies... where else but Babble? - hurray!!

I just have to say that "RENEWABLE ENERGY" represents a serious threat to the capitalist/anti-social people because the act of adding coal every day to a power plant creates an extra layer of profits behind the scene where they make money off the coal supply.

It is a bit like 'the monthly bills' that we pay for heating, for phones, cable TV - things that could just be set up and used for very little cost but instead we allow private corporate groups to make bundles of money off of them.

There is a better way..finding the CHEAPEST way to do things, not the most expensive!!

So, I love the idea of Ecosocialism.

Natural Law - accepting the fact that everything we have originally came from something the earth provided, and the earth has to suck up all we discard including air pollution, especially that most basic element, carbon. The cheapest price is the way to go, but no price at all where a cost in incurred is not right either... carbon taxes are a good thing.

But you all knew that... I just want to say I agree.

Publicfinance

Evo Morlaes said at the United Nations:

1. Putting an end to the capitalist system
2. Renouncing wars
3. A world without imperialism or colonialism
4. Right to water
5. Development of clean energies
6. Respect for Mother Earth
7. Basic services such as human rights Treat basic services as human rights
8. Fighting inequalities
9. Promoting diversity of cultures and economies
10. Living well, not living better at the expense of others

Give me a break this guy is a reformed coca farmer. Clean Energy? This countries only source of foreign capital comes form its natural gas resources. LOL putting an end to the capitalist system? And replace it with what, Soviet brand Communism? This clown doesnt even understand no PURE capitalist society even exists, even the US is highly mixed, with plenty of socialist leanings. Who is next to address the UN Robert Mugabe?

Publicfinance

The Second Ecosocialist Manifesto

“The world is suffering from a fever due to climate change, and the disease is the capitalist development model.” — Evo Morales, president of Bolivia, September 2007

WHAT DOES THIS GUY KNOW? He's a small time coca farmer that won an election in a dirt poor backwater in the middle of nowhere, South America. What does he mean the World is suffering from a fever due to climate change? Whre is the current suffering due directly to Global Warming? The global temperature is up less than 1 degree since 1900. How is his little landlocked republic Bolivia suffering from Global Warming?

His ally and hero is Hugo Chavez who is as bad a so-called climate pirate as there is (by Global Warming theorists definition). Most of his countries wealth is derived from oil exports and he literally GIVES oil away to his citizens so they can drive the hell out of their cars. The last time I looked gas was 3 cents a liter

The last time I was in venezuela the air pollution was awful, traffic terrible and public transit a joke (mostly ancient buses that belched black diesel smoke not unlike a steam engine). I wonder what we'd all be driving around in if gas was 3 cents a liter here. I dont think there would be a single hybrid on the road, let alone a toyota corolla.

"Ecosocialsts" should choose carefully their role models more carefully, Chavez is a big-mouthed, mentally challenged bully that will, in time , run his country into the ground when there aren't any business left to "nationalize"

Noah_Scape

I thought this was a "left-wing" forum? Why are you here? Evo Morales cannot cure the smog in one term in office, but that don't make him a failure and it sure doesn't mean socialism won't work.
By the way, doesn't the USA economic failures, and government bailouts, put an end to your trickle up economics? Capitalism is a freak, it punishes people unless they are the small elite wealthy group at the top.

Go find a forum for your types eh.

Fidel

quote:


Originally posted by Doug:
[b]Trying to implement some sort of Stalinist forced march to sustainability (The patriotic Mr. Stakhanov keeps HIS lights off all the time, be like him...but if you don't the Green Police will break your fingers so you can't turn them on again...) will either fail - or work only in the worst way possible -[/b]

People in Stalin's Soviet Union rarely complained about natural gas or electrics not working. That didn't happen until capitalist reforms of the 1990's when people from Khyrgystan to Ukraine were burning furniture in communal bon fires to keep warm. Free markets were really for the benefit of rich people not us ordinary slobs. [img]tongue.gif" border="0[/img]

Fidel

quote:


[b]The reality is that no fossil fuel corporation can be convinced to stop expanding and making profits and instead invest its wealth[/b]

That's true. Multinational Energy companies don't want to sell less oil, gas, or hydroelectric power to the U.S. They only want to sell more and more and at the highest prices possible. Those people don't want conservation or efficiency, or even a strong national energy plan.

The Liberals handed Canada's environment to Exxon-Imperial and friends with NAFTA, and have propped up the Conservatives' multi-billion dollar tax giveaways to profitable fossil fuel companies. We need a national energy plan written by Canadians not corporate America. And we have to make corporate polluters pay for cleaning up toxic messes left behind. We need the NDP for starters.

sknguy

I think that government, as a central authority, needs to be dissected and operated as independent component agencies. Health Care, education, the environment, the legal system, the military, etc. can all function as independent agencies. And that the administration of such responsibilities shouldn’t be administered through political institutions. I would like to see a dismantling of politically competitive institutions, like our electoral systems. These only serve to encourage ideological conflict and competition. And, whether we acknowledge it or not, conflict and competition are core social institutions.

I also think that we need to relieve people from this preoccupation with economy and wealth. One of the ways we can do that is by engaging people in the actual governance of Canada. I think that for too long the importance of family, community and the environment have been displaced by our obsessions with economy. This obsession has skewed our perceptions of what’s important. To not properly address the importance of the environment, for example, such as this poster had done:

quote:

Originally posted by Publicfinance:
[b]
I wonder what we'd all be driving around in if gas was 3 cents a liter here. I dont think there would be a single hybrid on the road, let alone a toyota corolla.
[/b]

Is essentially saying to our children, grandchildren, future generations and the environment “you can go f*** yourselves”. We have no personal accountability. Our mindset, and worldview, imposes no accountability upon ourselves. I don’t know how we can begin to rebuild that accountability except to make ourselves more responsible for our personal governance and become more responsibly involved in government.

We relinquish our responsibilities for our actions to our politicians and the laws that “they” make. We’ve allowed the responsibility to govern ourselves to be forfeited to our political institutions. And I think its important for people to take back that responsibility. Society needs to be more involved as a functioning part of its governance. Have something more than simply casting a ballot invested in personal governance. We need to held accountable. And we need to be more responsible.

I'm sorry that I can't find quotes or articles to post that can support many of the things I post here at Babble. Part of it is my culture, part of it is being unaware of where to find things. I'm also preoccupied with economy as any person and I find this distraction utterly frustrating.

RosaL

quote:


Originally posted by Publicfinance:
[b]The Second Ecosocialist Manifesto

WHAT DOES THIS GUY KNOW? He's a small time coca farmer that won an election in a dirt poor backwater in the middle of nowhere, South America.

.... Chavez is a big-mouthed, mentally challenged bully [/b]


Well, your moral character is clear, anyway.

Doug

quote:


Originally posted by Frustrated Mess:
[b]Really? So people need their fingers broken to obey traffic lights? We need goons to kneecap people who just won't obey any of our nation's laws? If we didn't have brownshirts everyone would be snorting cocaine?
[/b]

That's exactly my point. We generally don't need the police to enforce those rules constantly because there's a level of social consensus about them. We're not at that point with the climate change issue yet, and government isn't going to be able to just impose it.

It's Me D

Its an interesting list, I'll take more time to read through it. I just noticed this however,

quote:

• Stop the development of carbon trading and other environmentally counter-productive techno-fixes, such as carbon capture and sequestration, agrofuels, nuclear power and ‘clean coal’ technology.

I'm curious how they lump all these things together as "techno-fixes". I'd either define "techno-fixes" as technological attempts to sustain our use of fossil fuels or technological find alternatives to fossil fuel dependency. This list appears to include both, yet if that is their intent I'm not sure why wind, solar, or tidal energy are not derided as well. If they removed nuclear from the list it would certainly help to clearly define what a "techno-fix" is supposed to be.

Anyway its just a quibble; hopefully when I have a chance to read their site the reasoning for this list will become clear.

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

I doubt they intended to deride all forms of technology; obviously technology is going to have to radically change. They listed "environmentally counter-productive techno-fixes", which would not include wind, solar, and other renewable energy technologies.

It's Me D

quote:


I doubt they intended to deride all forms of technology; obviously technology is going to have to radically change. They listed "environmentally counter-productive techno-fixes", which would not include wind, solar, and other renewable energy technologies.

I guess it is a question of how environmentally counter-productive a technology is; obviously they've made some sort of judgment here. There are environmental impacts of all forms of technology and I guess their thinking is that those they've listed are the ones where they feel the damage caused outweighs the potential benefit. Personally I wouldn't be so quick to put nuclear power in this category but I know many babblers would disagree with me. My concern is that their overall list does not include enough points that would result in decreased energy demand to simply rule out all these options for energy generation; it comes off as unrealistic. Either some more massive cuts to energy demand are needed in the list (my preference), or nuclear should be dropped from the list of environmentally counter-productive "techno-fixes". But I would be happy if someone else had a better solution!

Also I have now had the chance to read the whole list and it is quite impressive; indeed so much so that I cannot possibly make mention of all the points where I straight-up agree with their program. I'll just mention of few points I loved and one area (off-topic for ecosocialism, sorry) where I had some concerns:

quote:

- Invest massively in improved energy efficiency, low carbon emitting public transport, renewable energy and environmental repair

quote:

- Promote regional economic co-operation arrangements, such as UNASUR, the Bolivarian Alternative for the Americas (ALBA), the Trade Treaty of the Peoples and others, that encourage genuine development and an end to poverty.

quote:

- Phase out the pernicious paradigm of industry-led development, where the rural sector is squeezed to provide the resources necessary to support industrialization and urbanization

I just wanted to single out these three points because they are so great [img]smile.gif" border="0[/img] and because even though they aren't in the environmental list they clearly have an impact on the environment.

quote:

- Establish public enterprises under the control of parliaments, local communities and/or workers to increase employment

- Improve the performance of public enterprises through democratizing management - encourage public service managers, staff, unions and consumer organizations to collaborate to this end

- Introduce participatory budgeting over public finances at all feasible levels


I very much support the thrust of these three points, and as a public administrator myself I work towards them in the limited manner possible; that said I am concerned about the emphasis on administration democratizing the management of public enterprises. Don't get me wrong I support the ends described, but there are two reasons I am concerned: 1) much of the resistance to citizen participation in public sector decision-making comes not from administrators but from elected officials concerned their racket is being usurped by the people at large, 2) much of the present support amongst public administrators for collaboration outside government is badly misguided towards the co-option of government by the private sector (clearly not the intent of this point but perhaps an unintended consequence). Both these issues could be solved however, so they don't undermine the project if the problems are acknowledged.

[ 23 October 2008: Message edited by: It's Me D ]

Lard Tunderin Jeezus Lard Tunderin Jeezus's picture

One of the most frightening things I've seen lately is the Dr. Frankenstein's of the 21st century bragging about the monsters they plan to unleash. Check out [url=http://www.esquire.com/features/75-most-influential/craig-venter-1008]Craig Venter[/url] and [url=http://www.esquire.com/features/75-most-influential/drew-endy-1008]Drew Endy[/url] in Esquire magazine's '75 most influential people in the world'.

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

An important new article by Belgian ecosocialist Daniel Tanuro:

[url=http://www.internationalviewpoint.org/spip.php?article1577][u]Capitalism, "decreasing," and ecosocialism[/u][/url]

 

[IMG]http://i38.tinypic.com/1r9lpy.gif[/IMG]

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

Ian Angus has written an article on the same theme as his radio interview. The article is referenced below, at post #32.

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

[url=http://rabble.ca/news/will-capitalism-survive-climate-change] Can Capitalism Survive Climate Change?[/url]
by Walden Bello

Quote:
The prevailing assumption is that the affluent societies can take on commitments to reduce their greenhouse gas emissions but still grow and enjoy their high standards of living if they shift to non-fossil fuel energy sources. This assumption extends to the method of reduction, namely that the mandatory cuts agreed to multilaterally by governments will be implemented within the country according to a market-based system, that is, the trading of emission permits. The subtext is: techno-fixes and the carbon market will make the transition relatively painless and – why not? – profitable, too.

But many of these technologies are decades away from viable use. In the short and medium term, relying on a shift in energy dependence to non-fossil fuel alternatives will not be able to support current rates of economic growth. Also, the trade-off for more crop land devoted to biofuel production means less land on which to grow food and therefore greater food insecurity globally.

[b]Clearly, the dominant paradigm of economic growth is one of the most significant obstacles to a serious global effort to deal with climate change.[/b] But this destabilizing, fundamentalist growth-consumption paradigm is itself more effect rather than cause.

[b]The central problem is a mode of production whose main dynamic is the transformation of living nature into dead commodities, creating tremendous waste in the process. The driver of this process is consumption – or more appropriately overconsumption – and the motivation is profit or capital accumulation: capitalism, in short.[/b]

It has been the generalization of this mode of production in the North and its spread from the North to the South over the last 300 years that has caused the accelerated burning of fossil fuels and rapid deforestation, two of the key man-made processes behind global warming.
….

The goal must be the adoption of a low-consumption, low-growth, high-equity development model that results in an improvement in people's welfare, a better quality of life for all, and greater democratic control of production.

The elites of the North and the South will not likely agree to such a comprehensive response. The farthest they are likely to go is for techno-fixes and a market-based cap-and-trade system. Growth will be sacrosanct, as will the system of global capitalism.

Yet, confronted with apocalypse, humanity cannot self-destruct. It may be a difficult road, but the vast majority will not commit social and ecological suicide to enable the minority to preserve its privileges.

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

[url=http://www.internationalviewpoint.org/spip.php?article1580][b][color=roy... Tanuro strikes again:[/u][/color][/b][/url] 

Quote:
It should be noted that Obama's starting point is not the rescue of the climate but the safeguarding of the world leadership of the United States, in particular in the strategic domain of energy. [b]"Barack Obama's Plan to Make America a Global Energy Leader"[/b]: that is the title of the energy-climate chapter in the programme of the new president. Obama reproaches Bush for having increased the dependency of the United States on oil, and therefore on the producer countries and their hostile regimes, and to have committed the US army massively in Iraq rather than in Afghanistan. According to him, Bush's policy has led the USA into a dead end where it is weakened in relation to the European Union and to China, while losing absolute control over its back-yard in Latin America. [b]Obama thus incarnates the project of a total geostrategic reorientation aimed at restoring the hegemony of the empire in a context of sharpened competition between imperialist powers and new rising capitalist powers. His energy-climate programme must be analyzed within this framework[/b]....

According to the IPCC, it is out of the question that the rich countries wait until 2030 or 2040 to start to decrease their emissions: they must start immediately and reach a first stage of between 25 and 40 per cent reduction in 2020, compared to 1990. However, the energy-climate programme of Obama is far from satisfying this condition: between now and 2020, its aim is only to bring US emissions back to their level of 1990. To put things in perspective, let us remember that the United States, if they had ratified the Kyoto ‘Peanuts' Protocol, should have brought their emissions down to 5 per cent below the level of 1990... between 2008 and 2012. Obama is not taking much of a risk here: even if he were to occupy the White House for two terms, most of the hard work would be for his successors, after 2020. Tomorrow, the beer will be free...

To guide the transition towards 2050, the new president has opted for a [b]system of exchange of emission rights[/b], following the example of the one that has functioned in Europe since 2005. His programme goes even further than the "energy-climate package" of the European Commission for 2012-2020: it envisages the auctioning of all rights. Part of the revenues from this sale would be used to finance the development and the deployment of clean energies, to invest in energy efficiency and to face the costs of the transition. These costs include in particular assistance to those on low incomes who are confronted with the increase in the price of energy (various mechanisms are envisaged, such as the reinforcement of the system of premiums for insulation of houses and the creation of special funds so that the poorest can pay their electricity and energy bills).

In the context of the economic recession, it is doubtful whether Obama will keep this promise of auctioning all rights. The European experience is instructive in this respect....

Barack Obama does not say what proportion of the American effort of reduction would be replaced by [b]compensatory purchases of credits[/b]. His programme contents itself with affirming that "US emitters who are subject to obligations within the framework of the exchange of rights will be authorized to compensate for some of their emissions by investing in low-carbon energy projects in the developing world". Concerning carbon sinks, he evokes the development of incentives rewarding forest owners, farmers and ranch owners who plant trees, restore meadows or adopt cultivation methods making it possible to capture atmospheric carbon dioxide. No detailed estimate is provided....

Let us now look at the "clean" technologies that Barack Obama proposes to deploy. [b]The new president has four priorities: "clean coal", biofuels, nuclear power and the "clean car". This enumeration should be enough to vaccinate against Obamamania all those who have a minimum of social and ecological consciousness.[/b] This is unfortunately not the case: following the example of social democracy, the European Green parties are dancing around throwing rose petals on the triumphal road which leads Obama to the White House....

Basically, [b]"clean coal" does not exist[/b], neither for the miners, nor for the populations living around the mines, nor for the environment in general. The expression refers to the technique known as capture and sequestration of carbon (CSC). It consists of extracting CO2 from smoke as it leaves large industrial facilities which emit a lot (power stations, cement factories, iron and steel mills) and putting it in an intermediate state between the solid state and the gas state ("supercritical state") before injecting it at great depth into impermeable geological layers. This mode of storage of CO2 is already practised on a large scale in the North Sea, by the Norwegian company Statoil, but it is an exception. CSC still seems far from being operational....

[b]What the president-elect is in fact envisaging is not a transition but a new coal era.[/b] "Coal is our most abundant energy source and it is a decisive component of the economic development of India, China and other growing economies", he writes in his programme. The next part of the document is explicit: "Obama thinks that the imperative fight against climate change demands that we avoid a new wave of construction of conventional coal-fired power stations in the USA and that we work in an aggressive way to transfer low-carbon coal technologies to the whole world". So it really is question of new mines and new coal-fired power stations (which would operate for a minimum of 30 years), in the United States and in the whole world!

We come back here to the remark made at the beginning of this article. [b]Obama's objective is first and foremost not climatic but geostrategic: he wants to reduce dependence on imported oil and to make the United States the world energy leader, in order to restore the hegemony of the empire.[/b] Concerning coal, the calculation is clever. [b]Firstly,[/b] the proven reserves of coal correspond to three hundred years of consumption at the current rhythm. Most of these reserves are located in the United States and coal is a major export product of the US economy (with probably a 45 per cent increase in 2008). [b]Secondly[/b], India, China and South Africa also have very important deposits that they are afraid of not being able to continue to use freely - for the simple reason that coal, for the same energy efficiency, produces twice as much CO2 as natural gas. By selling them CSC technology, the USA could solve this problem and gain allies in the climate negotiations. [b]Thirdly[/b], "clean coal" would open up to US capital a vast field of foreign investment. Apart from the fact that these exports of capital would contribute to increased imperialist control, they would in addition make it possible to generate the precious cheap carbon credits which US companies will need in order to continue to pollute until 2029 and beyond....

When George. W. Bush announced his decision to increase from 5 to 36 billion gallons the quantity of ethanol that would be obligatorily added to gasoline in 2022, the planet resounded with protests in the name of the fight against hunger, the stability of the price of food products and ecology. There has been nothing like that with Obama. The new president, however, promises to go even further than his predecessor: [b]his programme envisages increasing the ethanol quota in gasoline to 60 billion gallons in 2030 - almost double...[/b]

Obama is committing himself to developing [b]second generation biofuels[/b], in other words the production of ethanol from cellulose - and not from sugar. The technology necessary for this production is almost ready and giant machines have been developed to "harvest" the young rapid-growth trees which would provide the raw material. [b]Hallelujah? No.[/b] Second generation biofuels do not as such make it possible to eliminate the conflict between the agriculture-based food and energy industries. To do that, it would be necessary to prohibit arable land being allocated to the plantation of rapid-growth trees, and to maintain this prohibition even if cellulose-based ethanol is ten times more profitable than food crops. Supposing that the market would allow such obstacles to the search for profit, it remains the case that the conversion of fallow and poor-quality land into industrial woods for cellulose-based production of ethanol will have a very heavy ecological impact, in particular in terms of biodiversity (monocultures with use of pesticides)....

There is a small problem: this programme was conceived before the stock exchange maelstrom. Where will the 150 billion dollars come from for subsidies to clean energy, knowing that 700 billion dollars were absorbed in the rescue of Wall Street and that tax revenues are decreasing with the recession? Where will the money come from to increase the premiums for the insulation of the houses of those on low incomes? Obama wants 10 per cent of the electricity consumed in the United States in 2012 to come from renewable sources... which are more expensive, and the extra cost will be passed on to customers' bills. Who will put money into the special fund intended to limit the increase in electricity bills for those who are the most disadvantaged, if the employers refuse the auctioning of emission rights? And how will American workers react if the ambitious objectives concerning biofuels lead to spiralling prices for basic food products? Does the Obama team hope to circumvent these difficulties by increasing even more the enormous American budget deficit? Wouldn't this be creating a new dependence on hostile regimes?...

Obama's victory marks a real turn in the energy and climate policy of the United States. We can only be delighted by the defeat of McCain who - although his proposals were not so far from those of his rival - had chosen as his running mate a thinly veiled climate negationist: Sarah Palin. But the American workers and the peoples of the world will not take long to notice that [b]this turn will be carried out at their expense. In order to oppose it, it will not be enough to say "no": it will be necessary to propose another climate and energy policy, anti-capitalist and internationalist. An ecosocialist policy.[/b]

 

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

[url=http://www.greenleft.org.au/2009/784/40374][color=mediumblue][u]Karl Marx the Ecologist[/u][/color][/url]

Quote:

As the world economy spirals down into its deepest crisis since the great depression, the writings of Karl Marx have made a return to the top seller lists in bookstores. In his native Germany, the sales of Marx's works have trebled.

His theories have been treated with contempt by conservative economists and historians. Yet, in the context of the latest economic downturn, even a few mainstream economists have been compelled to ask whether Marx was right after all.

Marx argued that capitalism is inherently unstable, fraught with contradictions and prone to deep crises.

Exploitation, war, hunger and poverty were not problems that could be solved by the market system, he said. Rather, they were inescapable outcomes of the system itself. This is because capitalism is dominated by the wealthiest corporations and devoted to profit above all else.

Only a move to a democratic socialist society, where ordinary people are empowered to make the key decisions about the economy and society themselves, can open the path to genuine freedom and liberation.

Famous for their critique of capitalism and for advocating social revolution, Marx and his co-thinker Frederick Engels are far less known for their concern for the destruction of the environment and the need for sustainability.

[b]Taken together, their views on the relationship between human society and the environment rank them among the most advanced environmentalists of their day.

According to Marx, capitalism is an economic system profoundly at odds with a sustainable planet. The exploitation of nature is as fundamental to the profit system, he argued, as the exploitation of working people.

One of the key goals of socialism is to liberate the natural world from the anti-environmental impacts of corporate greed.[/b] "From the standpoint of a higher economic formation, the private property of particular individuals in the earth will appear just as absurd as the private property of one man in other men", Marx wrote.

He was scathing of the capitalist economic notion that the air, rivers, seas and soil can be treated as a "free gift of nature" to business.

"Even an entire society, a nation, or all simultaneously existing societies taken together, are not owners of the earth. They are simply its possessors, its beneficiaries, and have to bequeath it in an improved state to succeeding generations."

[b]The market system is incapable of preserving the environment for future generations because it cannot take into account the long-term requirements of people and planet. The competition between individual enterprises and industries to make a profitable return on their investment tends to exclude rational and sustainable planning.[/b]

Engels explained this destructive dynamic: "As individual capitalists are engaged in production and exchange for the sake of the immediate profit, only the nearest, most immediate results must first be taken into account.

"As long as the individual manufacturer or merchant sells a manufactured or purchased commodity with the usual coveted profit, he is satisfied and does not concern himself with what afterwards becomes of the commodity and its purchasers.

"The same thing applies to the natural effects of the same actions."

Continued in the next post...

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

...Continued from the last post:

Quote:
In Marx and Engels's time, this feature of capitalism was especially apparent in [b]farming and agriculture[/b].

"The way that the cultivation of particular crops depends on fluctuations in market prices and the constant changes in cultivation with these price fluctuations - the entire spirit of capitalist production, which is oriented towards the most immediate monetary profits - stands in contradiction to agriculture, which has to concern itself with the whole gamut of permanent conditions of life required by the chain of human generations", Marx wrote.

Capitalist farming is unsustainable because it inevitably starves the soil of nutrients. It is nothing less than "an art, not only of robbing the labourer, but of robbing the soil".

Furthermore, Marx held that "all progress in increasing the fertility of the soil for a given time is a progress towards ruining the more long-lasting sources of that fertility. The more a country starts its development on the foundations of modern industry, like the United States, for example, the more rapid is this process of destruction.

"Capitalist production, therefore, develops technology ... only by sapping the original sources of all wealth - the soil and the worker."

[b]Marx and Engels understood the Earth's ecosystem as dynamic and complex[/b] - an intricate, delicately balanced process of interacting components where any changes that occur feed back with new, and often unpredictable, effects.

We disrupt the natural ecosystem at our peril, Engels warned. [b]"Let us not, however, flatter ourselves overmuch on account of our human victories over nature. For each victory nature takes its revenge on us.

"Each victory, it is true, in the first place brings about the results we expected, but in the second and third places it has quite different, unforeseen effects which only too often cancel out the first."[/b]

Many times Marx described the normal interaction between human society and the natural world as a kind of "metabolism". [b]Capitalist production creates a "metabolic rift" - a sharp break in the relationship - between humanity and the Earth.[/b]

The environmental results of this deepening rift have proved devastating.

"The development of civilisation and industry in general has always shown itself so active in the destruction of forests that everything that has been done for their conservation and production is completely insignificant in comparison", Marx pointed out.

Engels added: "At every step we are reminded that we by no means rule over nature like a conqueror over a foreign people, like someone standing outside of nature." On the other hand, "we have the advantage of all other creatures of being able to learn its laws and apply them correctly." That is, we can organise society in step with nature's limits.

[b]Marx and Engels held that socialism aimed to end class exploitation and also re-establish the "metabolism" between people and the Earth.

This is impossible unless the profit motive is removed from determining production in human society and a system of participatory democracy and rational planning is built in its stead.[/b]

Engels argued that only the working people organised as "associated producers" can "govern the human metabolism with nature in a rational way". This "requires something more than mere knowledge. It requires a complete revolution in our hitherto existing mode of production, and simultaneously a revolution in our whole contemporary social order."

Jacob Richter

M. Spector wrote:
Here is part of a [url=http://casinocrash.org/?p=235#more-235]radical program for social transformation[/url], developed during the recent Asia-Europe People’s Forum in Beijing. Only the "environment" portion is quoted here, but there is much more to the program:
quote:

• Introduce a global system of compensation for countries which do not exploit fossil fuel reserves in the global interests of limiting effects on the climate, such as Ecuador has proposed.

• Pay reparations to Southern countries for the ecological destruction wrought by the North to assist peoples of the South to deal with climate change and other environmental crises.

• Strictly implement the “precautionary principle” of the UN Declaration on the Right to Development as a condition for all developmental and environmental projects.

• End lending for projects under the Kyoto Protocol’s “Clean Development Mechanism” that are environmentally destructive, such as monoculture plantations of eucalyptus, soya and palm oil.

• Stop the development of carbon trading and other environmentally counter-productive techno-fixes, such as carbon capture and sequestration, agrofuels, nuclear power and ‘clean coal’ technology.

• Adopt strategies to radically reduce consumption in the rich countries, while promoting sustainable development in poorer countries

• Introduce democratic management of all international funding mechanisms for climate change mitigation, with strong participation from Southern countries and civil society.


Only the last demand seems to be "radical" in the footsteps of the Work Less Party.  Everything else, which downplays class struggle, is "social-democratic" garbage, I'm afraid. Embarassed

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

You're kidding, right?

Paying reparations to the third world is "social democratic" garbage? Name one social democratic party that advocates this. 

Stopping carbon trading, agrofuels, nuclear power, etc. would not bring the capitalist system to its knees? And don't social democrats [b]support[/b] carbon trading?

Paying countries to leave fossil fuels in the ground is not a radical proposal?

You imagine any of these programs could be implemented without significant class struggle?

Do you have any concept at all of [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transitional_demand][color=mediumblue][u]tr... demands[/u][/color][/url]?

Fidel

M. Spector wrote:

Stopping carbon trading, agrofuels, nuclear power, etc. would not bring the capitalist system to its knees? And don't social democrats [b]support[/b] carbon trading?

Social democrats in some countries do support cap and trade while others, like Sweden's social democrats, adopted carbon tax in 1991. And they claim it has reduced carbom emissions in that country.

Norway, otoh, is another Nordic country whose energy driven economy is more similar to Canada's situation. And reports from that country show that GHG emissions actually increased since implementing carbon taxes.

And our federal Liberals supported carbon tax under Dion. But now Dion and the short lived leftwing Liberal Party was taken over by pro big oil  Ignatief. And if the Obamericans have their way with stoogeocrats in Ottawa, Canadian taxpayers will probably be subsidizing the cost of cleaner processing of the oil extracted from tar sands before exporting it to the US.  

And for what it's worth, Alan Greenspan said cap and trade wont work.

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

Sweden is [url=http://www.swedishenergyagency.se/WEB/STEMEx01Eng.nsf/F_PreGen01?ReadFor... on board with the EU's useless carbon trading scheme.[/u][/color][/url]

Fidel

Swedish carbon tax since 1991  Liberals here in Canada were pointing to the Swedish carbon tax as all the rage leading up to the October election. And now Iggy's seized backup power to the Harpers, I wonder where they stand on carbon taxes now. We do know that Iggy's cancelled his subscription to National Geographic.

The bottom line for Canada is that with either of the two Bay Street parties as designated colonial administrators in Ottawa, corporate America will continue dictating Canada's national energy policy.

Jacob Richter

M. Spector wrote:

You're kidding, right?

Paying reparations to the third world is "social democratic" garbage? Name one social democratic party that advocates this. 

More radical "social-democrats" outside of official party bureaucracies advocate this stuff. 

Quote:
Stopping carbon trading, agrofuels, nuclear power, etc. would not bring the capitalist system to its knees? And don't social democrats [b]support[/b] carbon trading?

Paying countries to leave fossil fuels in the ground is not a radical proposal?

You imagine any of these programs could be implemented without significant class struggle?

Do you have any concept at all of [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transitional_demand][color=mediumblue][u]tr... demands[/u][/color][/url]?

As I have outlined in my programmatic work (if you're interested via e-mail), "transitional demands" tantamount to yet more of the same broad economism plaguing the class-strugglist left.  The minimum focus should be on demarchy, lessons from the Paris Commune, freedom of class-strugglist assembly and association (not just petty collective bargainism / tred-iunionizm), participatory-democratic limitations on the workweek, so-called "participatory budgeting," combating the underemployment of educated immigrants, cooperatives, and the so-called "socialization of all economic rent beyond that in land" (read Michael Hudson's work on banks and the classical political economy debate over economic rent).

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

"Class-strugglist"?

What is "class-strugglism"?

It's Me D

Jacob as usual I agree with a lot of what you have to suggest, I'd love to read your "programmatic" work myself. That said I don't see a lot of contradiction between what you just posted and the program Spector posted some time ago to which you were responding. To be sure they are different, but not contradictory and not IMV coming from different places (re: your accusations of Social Democracy).

Oh and where did you find "radical social-democrats"? Sounds like a rare breed if ever there was one!

Fidel

It's Me D wrote:

Oh and where did you find "radical social-democrats"? Sounds like a rare breed if ever there was one!

Meanwhile, 140 years' worth of stoogeocracy in Ottawa. These people certainly like to talk big, but the reality is that Canada ceased even being a sovereign country decades ago after successive Liberal and Tory colonial administrativeships in Ottawa handed the country over to rule by corporate America. 

M. Spector M. Spector's picture
M. Spector M. Spector's picture

Like I said before, my objection is to this thesis, put forward by It's Me D:

Quote:
[b]The NDP cannot, and should not call for this but this is what needs to be done to save the world...[/b]

That's completely incompatible with what Michael Löwy is saying.

I still haven't seen you disagree with It's Me D on that point.

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

Löwy said:

Quote:
For instance, if a government does not support international climate treaties, the first priority is to remove the government since it ignores climate science, and replace it with one that does not, even if it is a bourgeois one.

Incredibly, ElizaQ said:

Quote:
Löwy here states quite explictdly that political parties don't have to be the driving force but that the it's the people "from their own experience' that makes the demands on them. If there isn't that 'life experience' to make the demands from then it's only abstract and he states people don't mobilize on abstractions. I totally agree.

How difficult is it to see that Löwy is saying the [b]first priority[/b] is to remove a government that ignores climate science and replace it with one that doesn't? He's talking about [b]electing a different party to power - "even if it is a bourgeois one".[/b] He specifically refers to the election of the Labour party in Australia.

By what stretch of the imagination does this imply that "political parties don't have to be the driving force" or that the NDP should not advance an ecosocialist alternative for fear of losing votes?

Löwy is saying the exact opposite! He's talking about what ecosocialists have to do [b]today[/b] while we're waiting for the revolution to happen. He's not standing on the sidelines like a sectarian purist, telling us to ignore electoral politics, but showing us how to turn it to our use. Löwy would be the last person to agree with D that "The NDP cannot, and should not call for [ecosocialist solutions]."

Your interpretation is bizarre; but I must say, you are a great spokesperson for It's Me D (who identifies as male, BTW).

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

[url=http://links.org.au/node/654]Climate change -- the case for public ownership[/url]

Quote:
The reality is that no fossil fuel corporation can be convinced to stop expanding and making profits and instead invest its wealth in a wholesale conversion of its operations to a renewable energy-powered, sustainable industry. At the same time no capitalist government is going to be either willing or able to constrain corporations’ rights to make profits in order to drastically reduce emissions.

In other words, the only way we can make use of the massive corporate wealth that isn’t in the hands of the people is with a revolutionary struggle that institutes a government which acts in the interests of people and the planet and puts control of all sectors of the economy in the hands of ordinary working people.

The real question is what needs to be done to achieve this? There does not need to be a contradiction between what we call for today in terms of immediate measures to combat global warming and building the movement for revolutionary change. Arguing for the nationalisation of polluting industries, to be placed under the democratic control of ordinary people, is essential to constructing a movement capable of halting climate change.

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

The following is from Greg Palast’s foreword to [url=http://www.amazon.ca/How-Rich-Are-Destroying-Earth/dp/1603580352/]How the Rich are Destroying the Earth[/url] by Hervé Kempf.

Quote:
So why the hell shouldn’t the rich destroy the planet? After all, it’s theirs. They own it. We all live on it, true, but we’re just renting space from the Landlords of our piece of earth, our air, our water.

The Landlords do what they want with their property. To get at their gold, they dump arsenic in our drinking water; to get at their oil, they melt our polar caps and barf soot into our lungs.

Hervé Kempf, being French, is really upset about this. But many Americans applaud it. We call these resource rapists “entrepreneurs” — it’s the only French word most journalists know — and drool over their rewards on re-runs of Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous.

It’s a weirdly perfect day to be writing an introduction to Kempf’s J’accuse. The United States Supreme Court has just let Exxon off the hook for shitting oil all over the Alaskan coastline with the crude that poured from the tanker Exxon Valdez. Years back, I investigated that eco-horror for the people that lived on the slimed beaches, the indigenous Chugach of Alaska.

What I found was that the oil would have never touched the coast if the company had surrounded the ship with a rubber barrier immediately after it ran aground. That’s exactly the kind of barrier the oil shipper swore, before the spill, that it would have at the ready – right on the island where the ship hit. But they didn’t. Exxon lied — under oath — then lied again in writing, and then lied again to cover up the fact that they’d placed no oil spill equipment on the island. Ten months before the spill, at a secret meeting of the executives of the world’s largest oil companies, Exxon’s top brass vetoed a plea from their own vice president in Alaska to buy the oil spill containment equipment. Exxon didn’t want to spend the money.

The savings to Exxon in safety equipment not purchased ran into the billions. The damage to our planet was inestimable. The damage to the Alaskan people can be measured in bankruptcies and suicides.

And that’s what Kempf is telling us: Ecological destruction is a profitable business.

He busts the myth that somehow there is no connection between the black oil in the water and the black ink on the bottom line.

In the USA, we continue to pretend that destroying our planet is somehow the result of working-class vices, like driving to work or not recycling our juice bottles. Saving the planet, we are told, is the work of our enlightened rulers. After all, British Petroleum has painted all its gas stations green.

Kempf dissents. He explains that you can’t have a grossly consuming over-class without driving the underclass to desperation. Raise the price of oil to over $100 a barrel, and the poor of Indonesia will cut down forests for fuel to cook their food.

[url=http://www.chelseagreen.com/content/index.php?p=1149]Source[/url]

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

Frustrated Mess wrote:

[b]What does that mean? How would I know a "high-equity development model" if I saw one?[/b]

I think he's talking about social equity, rather than equity in its financial sense, if that's what's bothering you.

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

Thanks, Rosa, I think you're right.

The Spanish says "Servicios básicos como derechos humanos."

If we put an implied verb in front of that meaning "to consider", it would have the meaning you suggest.

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

[url=http://www.socialistvoice.ca/?p=330]Canada’s Election and the Climate Crisis: Five Parties, No Solutions[/url]
by Ian Angus.

Quote:
For the environment, there’s good news and bad news in Canada’s current federal election campaign. Good news: for the first time ever, climate change is a central issue in the political debates. Bad news: despite much sound and fury, none of the major political parties is proposing effective measures for dealing with the climate change crisis....

Now, with a recession looming, the Conservatives are fighting this election as the “party of free enterprise, free markets and free trade” — which means returning to their previous anti-environmental positions. Harper demagogically promises to defend economic growth, while charging that the Liberals “jeopardize our economic growth with new taxes and threaten to impose new trade barriers in their Green Shift Plan.”...

The opposition

Polls show that the environment and climate change still rank very high as voter concerns, so the Tory policy shift offers an opportunity for the opposition parties to mobilize that concern in support of a strong pro-environment program. Unfortunately, none of them proposes effective measures for dealing with the crisis....

[b]All four mainstream opposition parties[/b] — Liberals, New Democrats, Bloc Quйbйcois and Greens — [b]have embraced the currently trendy economic theory that the way to fight global warming is to “put a price on carbon.”[/b] Corporations and consumers emit greenhouse gases, the theory says, because doing so doesn’t cost them anything. If government imposes a cost, companies and individuals will seek alternatives — they will try to reduce or eliminate their emissions in order to reduce their costs.

The Liberal Party is the prime defender of this approach. The cornerstone of its election program is the “Green Shift Plan,” which they say will “shift Canada’s tax system away from income and towards pollution.” They promise to phase in a $40 per tonne tax on greenhouse gas emissions over four years, and to reduce corporate and personal income taxes by an equivalent amount. As a result, businesses will be “encouraged to reduce the amount of greenhouse gases they emit into the atmosphere,” while consumers will be motivated to insulate their homes and find other ways to make less use of fossil fuels.

The Liberals say they will begin the tax shift immediately. They also promise an emissions trading scheme for corporations, including caps on emissions — but say it “will take several years to build.”

The New Democratic Party argues, correctly, that the main effect of the Liberal tax plan will be higher prices for working people. Instead, the NDP wants to launch a cap-and-trade program quickly. They have provided few details about their program, but they have made positive statements about the Western Climate Initiative, under which several provinces and U.S. states propose to regulate emissions while allowing corporations to continue polluting by purchasing emissions credits from the government, other corporations or Third World countries.

[b]The NDP website says its plan is “in line with” a similar scheme implemented in Europe. It is silent on the fact that the European system has produced windfall profits for energy companies while having no effect at all on emissions.[/b]

The Green Party and Bloc Quйbйcois propose variants on the two main themes. The Greens want a cap-and-trade program for large corporations, combined with a shift from income taxes to carbon taxes for consumers. The Bloc favours cap-and-trade, organized on a province-by-province basis.

Will market solutions work?

There is much more than this to each party’s program, and each party promises a different set of reforms and subsidies. But underneath those variations in style and detail, [b]the opposition parties are united in seeking to use capitalist methods to solve a problem that is inherent in capitalism. “Putting a price on carbon” — directly through taxes or indirectly through a cap-and-trade scheme — means depending on the magic of the market to reduce emissions.[/b]

At best, that’s wishful thinking.

Consumers can only make significant emissions cuts if affordable low-emission alternatives are actually available, which they are not. [b]In practice, the main effect of pricing carbon[/b] (directly through a tax or indirectly through emissions trading and regulations) [b]will be to increase the prices of essential products for which there are no alternatives — especially food, transportation and housing. Workers and farmers, already hit by declining real incomes, will have to tighten their belts until those magical new products arrive, if they ever do.[/b]

As for corporate polluters, it’s hard to believe that anyone who follows the business news can still claim that markets and “price signals” are an efficient way to get good results....

The plans proposed by Canadian political parties all rely on self-reporting by the polluters, for whom lying is often the lowest-cost option. Even if they are caught, investigations, trials and appeals can win them years of delays....

Cutting wages. The tried and tested corporate method of dealing with higher costs is to shift the burden onto workers, directly through pay cuts and longer hours, or indirectly by outsourcing work to countries where wages are lower.

Gaming the system. Every corporation employs teams of lawyers and accountants to figure out how to get around regulations and avoid paying taxes. These scam artists are undoubtedly already working on legal ways to minimize the impact of any emissions policy — without actually reducing emissions, of course.

Passing the costs on to consumers. If the increased costs imposed by carbon taxes or trading can’t be evaded, corporations will increase prices. The only barrier to such increases is competition, and the biggest polluters have very few competitors.

Shifting investments elsewhere. Capitalists don’t just need profits — they need a rate of profit that matches or exceeds the rate they can make elsewhere. If the carbon rules cut into their profits, they will move their money elsewhere, to other industries or other countries. If that happens, just watch how fast the politicians back down!

In short, big industry will do everything in its power to block or minimize any restrictions on business-as-usual — and they will do their utmost to avoid or delay complying with laws that do get passed. Pro-capitalist economic models never take those factors into account.

But that isn’t the biggest problem with the programs of the opposition parties.

[b]Even if their programs are implemented exactly as proposed, and even if there is 100% compliance, and even if the regulations and “price signals” produce the promised results, emissions will not come down fast enough to head off dangerous climate changes....[/b]

Declare a climate emergency!

...A government that really wanted to deal with climate change would declare a Climate Emergency. It would learn from the experience of World War II, when Ottawa forced through a radical transformation of the entire economy in a few months, with no lost jobs or pay cuts.

Internationally, it would campaign for a tough global climate treaty with teeth, focusing on cutting rich industrial nations’ emissions and transferring clean technology to the Global South.

Regardless of what happens in international negotiations, [b]Canada must unilaterally adopt a goal of a 60% overall emissions reduction by 2020, and a 90% reduction by 2030.[/b] Those reductions can be achieved through government measures such as these:

• Set hard, rapidly declining ceilings on emissions produced by the largest companies. Expropriate any company that doesn’t comply.

• Put all power industries under public ownership and democratic control. Begin phasing out coal-fired plants immediately and stop building new ones. Invest heavily in non-fossil fuel sources such as solar, wind, tidal and geothermal.

• Stop all new development in the Tar Sands and rapidly phase out existing operations, including restoring of the land as closely as possible to its previous condition.

• Redirect all military spending and the federal budget surplus into public energy-saving projects such as expanding mass transit and retrofitting homes and office buildings. Former tar sands workers and redeployed soldiers can play key roles in this effort.

• Retool auto plants to focus on building mass transit, wind turbines and other green technologies.

• Expand and upgrade transit systems so that all urban residents can use them easily. Make all public transit free.

The climate crisis will not respond to modest goals and incremental tinkering — [b]what’s needed are emergency measures[/b] to drive current greenhouse gas emissions towards zero as rapidly as possible. Unfortunately, in this election, modest goals and incremental tinkering are the best that Canadian politicians are offering. [b]There is no sign that any party recognizes how serious the problem actually is, let alone that emergency action is needed.[/b]

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

Sometime babbler and ecosocialist Ian Angus will be interviewed on the Redeye Show on Vancouver's Co-op Radio 102.7 FM, sometime during the program, which starts Saturday morning at 10 PDT, on the topic of [b]Climate Change and the Election[/b].

UPDATE: You can [url=http://www.rabble.ca/podcasts/shows/redeye/climate-change-and-federal-el... the podcast[/url].

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

Quote:
It’s hard to see what evidence there is to support this new found enthusiasm for emissions trading. The biggest experiment in the field so far, the European Union Emissions Trading Scheme (ETS), has yet to show any evidence of seriously tackling the problem of climate change. With the second phase due to start in 2008, carbon emissions aren’t going down, industries aren’t switching to clean energy technology and, so far, the scheme’s guiding principles seem to have been “polluter profits” rather than “polluter pays”.

The lack of discernible results to date lead to the conclusion that the ETS has been designed on the basis of its ideological compatibility with the free market rather than for its effectiveness in achieving urgently needed cuts in carbon emissions….

The first phase has been a disaster. One of the main problems of the scheme is that every stage of its design and implementation has been subjected to intensive industry lobbying….

Under sustained corporate lobbying, almost all EU governments made huge over allocations of permits to industry in the first phase. In 2005, the first year of trading, the relevant industries across Europe emitted 66 million tonnes less than the cap that had been allocated. This meant that the cap was effectively meaningless as it had not forced any net reductions. A preliminary analysis of the 2006 data shows that 93% of the 10,000 installations covered by the ETS emitted less than their allotted quota — in all, 30 million tonnes less than the total EU-wide allocation.

Successful corporate lobbying also meant that permits were allocated free of charge to industry in the first phase. But companies have been passing on the “cost” to consumers anyway. A study by UPS Investment showed that the first round of the ETS has added 1.3 euro cents to each kilowatt hour of electricity sold. This sounds negligible until you consider that the German minister for the environment estimated that the four biggest power providers in the EU — Eon, RWE, Vattenfall and EnBW — had profited between AU$14.4 billion and $19.2 billion from passing on the imaginary cost of the first phase of the ETS onto consumers….

Yet free allocations to fossil-fuel-intensive industries continue — providing a huge subsidy to the heaviest polluters. In “Implications of announced Phase 2 National Allocation Plans” from the journal Climate Policy, Dr. Karsten Neuhoff (from the Cambridge University faculty of economics) and his co-authors conclude that “the level of such subsidies under proposed second phase NAP is so high that the construction of coal power stations is more profitable under the ETS with such distorted allocation decisions than in the absence of the ETS”….

This enormous sum of money generated by these Kyoto-style trading schemes has not gone to the companies and communities that are taking action on clean energy and energy reduction projects. Rather, it is going to big, industrial polluters, which are then at liberty to reinvest the profits into the expansion of their operations….

As far back as 1991, there were plans proposed for an EU-wide carbon tax, but the lack of political support and the vogue for all things market-related meant that they were stifled. However, in February 2007, a study by economist Robert Shapiro, who was undersecretary of commerce for economic affairs in the Clinton administration, stated that carbon taxes are “much less vulnerable to evasion and market manipulation” than cap-and-trade systems.

Whereas carbon taxes provide “a more stable and transparent system for consumers and industry alike”, cap and trade systems are “much more complex to administer” and “produce much greater volatility in energy and energy-related prices”.

Across the world, other economists and political scientists are coming to similar conclusions….

[[url=http://www.greenleft.org.au/2007/709/36812]Kevin Smith[/url] is a researcher with [url=http://www.carbontradewatch.org]Carbon Trade Watch[/url].]

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

It's Me D wrote:

[b]The NDP cannot, and should not call for this but this is what needs to be done to save the world...[/b]

So who [b]will[/b] call for saving the world? Please tell me so I can vote for them.

Do you not agree that the world needs to be saved? Do you not agree that it is probably already too late anyway, so waiting for someone to step up to the plate in the distant future is essentially to surrender to the destruction of the planet?

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

It's Me D wrote:

[b]You have to [sic] choices, to play the old game that you know if [sic] rigged against you so that you cannot win, or to start a new one, with new rules, that you can win.[/b]

False dichotomy.

There is no sign of "a new one, with new rules" coming along any time soon, so unless you are a hopeless sectarian, you have to work with what is there. If a "new one, with new rules" is to be started, who is to say it won't arise out of the "old game"?

What if Hugo Chavez had said "I'm not going to play that electoral game" and instead of running for President on a radical platform he had decided to head for the hills and start a new game with new rules? There would today be no prospect of a Bolivarian revolution, the right wing parties would be in full control of Venezuela, and Chavez would be as isolated as the FARC.

I'm not saying revolution can come to Canada through the ballot box. But I am saying that if you are going to play any kind of political game - new or old - you have to be prepared to tell the truth about what is happening and what is to be done. Anything less is a capitulation to reformism.

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

It's Me D wrote:

Chavez didn't play by the rules himself; he tried a number of unorthodox strategies to build the Bolivarian Revolution and did not, to my knowledge, feel that he had to participate in the existing political system to build his revolution. Chavez did work to create a new game, bringing the masses to the forefront in a way they hadn't been before. He appealed directly to the people and bypassed the gatekeepers of electoral politics. Then he got into power and changed the game; now it is possible for the Revolution to win.

 

Um, you left out the part where Chavez [b]ran in elections and got elected to power[/b]. If that isn't "participating in the existing political system to build his revolution", then nothing is.

If you'd been in Venezuela when Chavez was running for President, would you be standing on the sidelines saying, "we need a revolution, so there's really no point in electoral politics"?

Where is Canada's Chavez? Don't you think we need one? Or do we just keep rearranging the deck chairs?

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