Stйphane Dion dumps candidate for article on 9/11

Fri, 2008-09-26 19:20

Fidel

I think it's safe to say that the Israeli Mossad knew a lot more than we know about events surrounding 9-11. Peter Dale Scott talks about conversations he has had with CIA and State Dept officials concerning the contracting out of intelligence to foreign agencies. PDS says they neither confirm nor deny that this was the case before or after 9-11.

The Mossad actually did warn the CIA repeatedly about probable al Qa'eda attacks inside the U.S. in the months and weeks leading to 9-11. CIA officials themselves said that they, in turn, warned the Bush WhitHouse. Repeatedly. The Israelis apparently appealed to the Russians in order that [i]Russian[/i] intel alerts would seem more credible to Bush hawks. And then warnings were dropped in their laps from world-wide intel agencies, which were also ignored by Cheney, Bush, the FBI, and so on.

Naomi Klein says she does not support conspiracy theories surrounding 9-11 and prefers to decribe it as a deliberate adherance to laissez-faire attitude by the Bush admin. That's a safe bet. But it was Hungarian-Canadian socialist Karl Polanyi who said that laissez-faire came about by selective state policies which required planning and enforcing. Therefore, laissez-faire was planned but planning was not.

[ 26 September 2008: Message edited by: Fidel ]

Fri, 2008-09-26 19:20

#103

Fidel

I think it's safe to say that the Israeli Mossad knew a lot more than we know about events surrounding 9-11. Peter Dale Scott talks about conversations he has had with CIA and State Dept officials concerning the contracting out of intelligence to foreign agencies. PDS says they neither confirm nor deny that this was the case before or after 9-11.

The Mossad actually did warn the CIA repeatedly about probable al Qa'eda attacks inside the U.S. in the months and weeks leading to 9-11. CIA officials themselves said that they, in turn, warned the Bush WhitHouse. Repeatedly. The Israelis apparently appealed to the Russians in order that [i]Russian[/i] intel alerts would seem more credible to Bush hawks. And then warnings were dropped in their laps from world-wide intel agencies, which were also ignored by Cheney, Bush, the FBI, and so on.

Naomi Klein says she does not support conspiracy theories surrounding 9-11 and prefers to decribe it as a deliberate adherance to laissez-faire attitude by the Bush admin. That's a safe bet. But it was Hungarian-Canadian socialist Karl Polanyi who said that laissez-faire came about by selective state policies which required planning and enforcing. Therefore, laissez-faire was planned but planning was not.

[ 26 September 2008: Message edited by: Fidel ]

Fri, 2008-09-26 19:31

#104

peskyfly1

Let's be clear. Those who equate objections to the actions of the state of Israel and 'anti-semitism' are insulting us all.
We are aware that the American intelligence estimate (ignored by the Bush administration) was entitled "Bid Laden determined to strike within U.S." and directly stated that the plan was to fly planes into skyscrapers. Other intelligence agencies also tried to warn the Bush administration. Why then is it so politically incorrect to suggest that the Israelis may have possessed details as well?
Why is it wrong to ask questions about 9-11?
Do those who oppose the questioners believe that every fact about 9-11 has been determined beyond a shadow of a doubt? Smug s.o.b.s.

Fri, 2008-09-26 19:31

#105

peskyfly1

Let's be clear. Those who equate objections to the actions of the state of Israel and 'anti-semitism' are insulting us all.
We are aware that the American intelligence estimate (ignored by the Bush administration) was entitled "Bid Laden determined to strike within U.S." and directly stated that the plan was to fly planes into skyscrapers. Other intelligence agencies also tried to warn the Bush administration. Why then is it so politically incorrect to suggest that the Israelis may have possessed details as well?
Why is it wrong to ask questions about 9-11?
Do those who oppose the questioners believe that every fact about 9-11 has been determined beyond a shadow of a doubt? Smug s.o.b.s.

Fri, 2008-09-26 22:53

#106

CanadianAlien

quote:

Hughes: "I guess that's how soldiers die in the trenches. This is how it must feel."

[url=http://www.cbc.ca/news/canadavotes/story/2008/09/26/dion-seniors.html]ht...

Fri, 2008-09-26 22:53

#107

CanadianAlien

quote:

Hughes: "I guess that's how soldiers die in the trenches. This is how it must feel."

[url=http://www.cbc.ca/news/canadavotes/story/2008/09/26/dion-seniors.html]ht...

Sat, 2008-09-27 07:07

#108

Policywonk

I don't see how offensive the excerpt could be, certainly not the reference to Mossad amongst other intelligence services. Possibly the reference to Israeli firms breaking leases might be considered offensive, if this were previously debunked rumour.

One thing that is inaccurate is the number of Americans killed. Of 2700 or so deaths, about 500 were non-Americans, including a handful of Israelis.

Sat, 2008-09-27 07:07

#109

Policywonk

I don't see how offensive the excerpt could be, certainly not the reference to Mossad amongst other intelligence services. Possibly the reference to Israeli firms breaking leases might be considered offensive, if this were previously debunked rumour.

One thing that is inaccurate is the number of Americans killed. Of 2700 or so deaths, about 500 were non-Americans, including a handful of Israelis.

Sat, 2008-09-27 17:03

#110

Michael Hardner Michael Hardner's picture

quote:

taking Harper's side against Hughes is to suffer from terminal inability to distinguish our friends from our enemies.

Anybody who speaks out against promoting this dangerous and, yes, anti-Semitic theories about 9/11 is my friend in the moment that they do. Stephane Dion, Harper - any of them. I'm not going to support that kind of stupidity just because they're running against Harper.

Dion was right to dump her - clearly she lacks judgement.

Sat, 2008-09-27 17:03

#111

Michael Hardner Michael Hardner's picture

quote:

taking Harper's side against Hughes is to suffer from terminal inability to distinguish our friends from our enemies.

Anybody who speaks out against promoting this dangerous and, yes, anti-Semitic theories about 9/11 is my friend in the moment that they do. Stephane Dion, Harper - any of them. I'm not going to support that kind of stupidity just because they're running against Harper.

Dion was right to dump her - clearly she lacks judgement.

Sat, 2008-09-27 17:39

#112

Fidel

So Michael, do you accept the official 9-11 story at full face value? Many Americans do not, including a few 9-11 Commissioners themselves. Crazy George II and team are not just any idiots - the whole world thinks they are [i]dangerous[/i] and appallingly greedy idiots. Deliberate idiots at best.

9-11 and the "war on terror" is the reason why Canadian troops are in Afghanistan today. And now four times as many Canadian soldiers have been sent home to their families in plastic bags as there were Canadians who died in the trade towers on 9-11.

Canadians are led to believe that Afghanistan - one of the poorest countries in the world, and a country where one UN official says children enjoy the fewest basic children's rights in the world - is home to the most dangerous terrorists threatening world peace and capitalism in general. Do you believe that?

[ 27 September 2008: Message edited by: Fidel ]

Sat, 2008-09-27 17:39

#113

Fidel

So Michael, do you accept the official 9-11 story at full face value? Many Americans do not, including a few 9-11 Commissioners themselves. Crazy George II and team are not just any idiots - the whole world thinks they are [i]dangerous[/i] and appallingly greedy idiots. Deliberate idiots at best.

9-11 and the "war on terror" is the reason why Canadian troops are in Afghanistan today. And now four times as many Canadian soldiers have been sent home to their families in plastic bags as there were Canadians who died in the trade towers on 9-11.

Canadians are led to believe that Afghanistan - one of the poorest countries in the world, and a country where one UN official says children enjoy the fewest basic children's rights in the world - is home to the most dangerous terrorists threatening world peace and capitalism in general. Do you believe that?

[ 27 September 2008: Message edited by: Fidel ]

Sun, 2008-09-28 13:29

#114

Jaku

quote:

Originally posted by Policywonk:
[b]I don't see how offensive the excerpt could be, certainly not the reference to Mossad amongst other intelligence services. Possibly the reference to Israeli firms breaking leases might be considered offensive, if this were previously debunked rumour.
One thing that is inaccurate is the number of Americans killed. Of 2700 or so deaths, about 500 were non-Americans, including a handful of Israelis.[/b]

I thought ohara explained this quite well

Sun, 2008-09-28 13:29

#115

Jaku

quote:

Originally posted by Policywonk:
[b]I don't see how offensive the excerpt could be, certainly not the reference to Mossad amongst other intelligence services. Possibly the reference to Israeli firms breaking leases might be considered offensive, if this were previously debunked rumour.
One thing that is inaccurate is the number of Americans killed. Of 2700 or so deaths, about 500 were non-Americans, including a handful of Israelis.[/b]

I thought ohara explained this quite well

Thu, 2008-10-02 08:39

#116

pogge

[url=http://www.winnipegsun.com/canadavotes/news/2008/10/02/6954726.html]Hughes to remain in the running[/url]

quote:

Hughes said this morning she intends to run in the election and in the event she wins she would sit as an independent.

Thu, 2008-10-02 08:39

#117

pogge

[url=http://www.winnipegsun.com/canadavotes/news/2008/10/02/6954726.html]Hughes to remain in the running[/url]

quote:

Hughes said this morning she intends to run in the election and in the event she wins she would sit as an independent.

Thu, 2008-10-02 09:39

#118

aka Mycroft

quote:

Originally posted by Fidel:
[b]So Michael, do you accept the official 9-11 story at full face value? Many Americans do not, including a few 9-11 Commissioners themselves. Crazy George II and team are not just any idiots - the whole world thinks they are [i]dangerous[/i] and appallingly greedy idiots. Deliberate idiots at best.
9-11 and the "war on terror" is the reason why Canadian troops are in Afghanistan today. And now four times as many Canadian soldiers have been sent home to their families in plastic bags as there were Canadians who died in the trade towers on 9-11.
Canadians are led to believe that Afghanistan - one of the poorest countries in the world, and a country where one UN official says children enjoy the fewest basic children's rights in the world - is home to the most dangerous terrorists threatening world peace and capitalism in general. Do you believe that?
[ 27 September 2008: Message edited by: Fidel ][/b]

There are certainly unanswered questions with 9/11 but I think the untold story is one of negligence and missed opportunities and not of an "inside job" or of the Israelis, Iraqis or anyone other than Al-Qaeda being involved. We know that the National Security Council received a report which explicitly said that an attack by Al Qaeda was imminent which the US ignored so is it possible there was also chatter specifying the WTC as a target? Certainly. But again, this points to negligence by the US rather than complicity.

Did the US use 911 as a pretext to attack Iraq and institute repressive national security legislation? Certainly. But just because the government exploited 911 as an opportunity to put into place its desire to attack Iraq (which David Frum outlined in his memoirs as being a motive force before 911) does not mean that the US planned 911 just as the way the US exploited Hurricane Katrina in order to privatize many services in New Orleans doesn't mean that the US caused the hurricane.

Thu, 2008-10-02 09:39

#119

aka Mycroft

quote:

Originally posted by Fidel:
[b]So Michael, do you accept the official 9-11 story at full face value? Many Americans do not, including a few 9-11 Commissioners themselves. Crazy George II and team are not just any idiots - the whole world thinks they are [i]dangerous[/i] and appallingly greedy idiots. Deliberate idiots at best.
9-11 and the "war on terror" is the reason why Canadian troops are in Afghanistan today. And now four times as many Canadian soldiers have been sent home to their families in plastic bags as there were Canadians who died in the trade towers on 9-11.
Canadians are led to believe that Afghanistan - one of the poorest countries in the world, and a country where one UN official says children enjoy the fewest basic children's rights in the world - is home to the most dangerous terrorists threatening world peace and capitalism in general. Do you believe that?
[ 27 September 2008: Message edited by: Fidel ][/b]

There are certainly unanswered questions with 9/11 but I think the untold story is one of negligence and missed opportunities and not of an "inside job" or of the Israelis, Iraqis or anyone other than Al-Qaeda being involved. We know that the National Security Council received a report which explicitly said that an attack by Al Qaeda was imminent which the US ignored so is it possible there was also chatter specifying the WTC as a target? Certainly. But again, this points to negligence by the US rather than complicity.

Did the US use 911 as a pretext to attack Iraq and institute repressive national security legislation? Certainly. But just because the government exploited 911 as an opportunity to put into place its desire to attack Iraq (which David Frum outlined in his memoirs as being a motive force before 911) does not mean that the US planned 911 just as the way the US exploited Hurricane Katrina in order to privatize many services in New Orleans doesn't mean that the US caused the hurricane.

Thu, 2008-10-02 09:59

#120

blogbart

quote:

The FBI has blocked two of its veteran counterterrorism agents from going public with accusations that the CIA deliberately withheld crucial intelligence before the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks.
FBI Special Agents Mark Rossini and Douglas Miller have asked for permission to appear in an upcoming public television documentary, scheduled to air in January, on pre-9/11 rivalries between the CIA, FBI and National Security Agency.
.. Rossini and Miller, who were assigned to the CIA-run Counterterrorist Center during the run-up to the 9/11 attacks, are prepared to describe on camera how the CIA blocked them from sharing crucial intelligence with FBI headquarters - and then later pressured them not to tell the truth to investigators.

[url=http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/spytalk/2008/10/fbi-prevents-agents-from-tel... Politics blog[/url]

[url=http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&add... Underground forum discussion[/url]
This is the type of omissions and distortions of public record that have lead Debra Hughes and Bev Collins to their questions about 9/11. The public record on nearly every aspect of 9/11 is tainted similarly including the collapses of the WTC 1, 2 & 7 towers. However, you don't have to even bother with the WTC collapses.

There was foreknowledge of the hijackers, their plans, their presence in the US, their relationships with foreign governments, and on and on .. much of which is omitted or distorted consistently and systematically prior to and after 9/11.

Hughes and Collins can only be lauded for their bravery in weathering the scorn of their colleagues and public by pointing out that the public record on 9/11 is not complete or clear. It is absolutely relevant that they do this because Canada needs to know the truth, so that our participation in Afghanistan, the 'war on terror', security agreements with the US, acceptance of invasion of privacy etc, are warranted and based on fact.

[ 02 October 2008: Message edited by: blogbart ]

Thu, 2008-10-02 09:59

#121

blogbart

quote:

The FBI has blocked two of its veteran counterterrorism agents from going public with accusations that the CIA deliberately withheld crucial intelligence before the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks.
FBI Special Agents Mark Rossini and Douglas Miller have asked for permission to appear in an upcoming public television documentary, scheduled to air in January, on pre-9/11 rivalries between the CIA, FBI and National Security Agency.
.. Rossini and Miller, who were assigned to the CIA-run Counterterrorist Center during the run-up to the 9/11 attacks, are prepared to describe on camera how the CIA blocked them from sharing crucial intelligence with FBI headquarters - and then later pressured them not to tell the truth to investigators.

[url=http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/spytalk/2008/10/fbi-prevents-agents-from-tel... Politics blog[/url]

[url=http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&add... Underground forum discussion[/url]
This is the type of omissions and distortions of public record that have lead Debra Hughes and Bev Collins to their questions about 9/11. The public record on nearly every aspect of 9/11 is tainted similarly including the collapses of the WTC 1, 2 & 7 towers. However, you don't have to even bother with the WTC collapses.

There was foreknowledge of the hijackers, their plans, their presence in the US, their relationships with foreign governments, and on and on .. much of which is omitted or distorted consistently and systematically prior to and after 9/11.

Hughes and Collins can only be lauded for their bravery in weathering the scorn of their colleagues and public by pointing out that the public record on 9/11 is not complete or clear. It is absolutely relevant that they do this because Canada needs to know the truth, so that our participation in Afghanistan, the 'war on terror', security agreements with the US, acceptance of invasion of privacy etc, are warranted and based on fact.

[ 02 October 2008: Message edited by: blogbart ]

Thu, 2008-10-02 10:26

#122

jfb

quote:

Originally posted by pogge:
[b][url=http://www.winnipegsun.com/canadavotes/news/2008/10/02/6954726.html]Hughes to remain in the running[/url]
[/b]

And election's Canada has told her she is not allowed to actively campaign. Since she was removed after the deadline so there are rules that prevent to participating in certain campaigning activities.

Thu, 2008-10-02 10:26

#123

jfb

quote:

Originally posted by pogge:
[b][url=http://www.winnipegsun.com/canadavotes/news/2008/10/02/6954726.html]Hughes to remain in the running[/url]
[/b]

And election's Canada has told her she is not allowed to actively campaign. Since she was removed after the deadline so there are rules that prevent to participating in certain campaigning activities.

Thu, 2008-10-02 12:39

#124

Unionist

This is the worst defamatory hatchet job I've ever seen, and it's frankly embarrassing that some babblers would call Hughes "anti-Semitic" based on no evidence whatsoever.

[url=http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/editorial/story/4233069p-4874611c.html]... is a letter[/url] she wrote to the Winnipeg Free Press:

quote:

Six years ago, I wrote a column which examined evidence that the U.S. occupation of Afghanistan may have been motivated by the drive for oil and drug profits.
As background, I reported that the intelligence agencies of Germany, Israel and Russia all warned the CIA that the attacks of Sept. 11 were coming, a fact also reported in the London Telegraph, the Jerusalem Post, and on Fox News. I noted that the U.S. disregarded the warnings, but Israeli businesses took them seriously, and (sensibly) vacated the Twin Towers.
The Canadian Jewish Congress seems to have assumed that I am one of those who subscribe to a bizarre conspiracy theory that the world's Jews were responsible for 9-11, a ludicrous idea I have never supported. As a result of the Congress's assumption, I have been slandered as an odious anti-Semite, a claim accepted by the prime minister, by the leader of the opposition, and the nation's media. I have also been labelled an extremist nutbar who has promoted, rather than investigated, the possibility that 9-11 was an inside job. As a result, the voters of Kildonan-St. Paul have no Liberal candidate, and a narrower debate before electing their MP.
One hopes journalists will be asking two questions: 1) Who benefits from this hysteria? 2) Is it still possible for journalists to do the work of journalism, which is to "challenge the official story" in an atmosphere of fear and ridicule?

[url=http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/editorial/story/4232619p-4874116c.html]... are letters to the editor[/url] condemning the treatment of Hughes, including this one from Dr. Peter Markesteyn, retired Chief Medical Examiner for Manitoba:

quote:

Having known Lesley Hughes professionally and personally for over 25 years, I wish to state that she has not a grain of anti-Semitism in her.

Hughe will [url=http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/breakingnews/story/4233675p-4875283c.ht... to campaign[/url]:

quote:

But Hughes said she will campaign in the riding despite some confusing Elections Canada rules. She will have a website, participate in forums and door knock as long as Elections Canada gives the okay.
In the meantime, she is considering suing those who called her an anti-Semite for a 2002 column she wrote about the Sept. 11 attacks.
"I'm told I have a very strong case for slander and defamation," she said.

I would have to concur.

Thu, 2008-10-02 12:39

#125

Unionist

This is the worst defamatory hatchet job I've ever seen, and it's frankly embarrassing that some babblers would call Hughes "anti-Semitic" based on no evidence whatsoever.

[url=http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/editorial/story/4233069p-4874611c.html]... is a letter[/url] she wrote to the Winnipeg Free Press:

quote:

Six years ago, I wrote a column which examined evidence that the U.S. occupation of Afghanistan may have been motivated by the drive for oil and drug profits.
As background, I reported that the intelligence agencies of Germany, Israel and Russia all warned the CIA that the attacks of Sept. 11 were coming, a fact also reported in the London Telegraph, the Jerusalem Post, and on Fox News. I noted that the U.S. disregarded the warnings, but Israeli businesses took them seriously, and (sensibly) vacated the Twin Towers.
The Canadian Jewish Congress seems to have assumed that I am one of those who subscribe to a bizarre conspiracy theory that the world's Jews were responsible for 9-11, a ludicrous idea I have never supported. As a result of the Congress's assumption, I have been slandered as an odious anti-Semite, a claim accepted by the prime minister, by the leader of the opposition, and the nation's media. I have also been labelled an extremist nutbar who has promoted, rather than investigated, the possibility that 9-11 was an inside job. As a result, the voters of Kildonan-St. Paul have no Liberal candidate, and a narrower debate before electing their MP.
One hopes journalists will be asking two questions: 1) Who benefits from this hysteria? 2) Is it still possible for journalists to do the work of journalism, which is to "challenge the official story" in an atmosphere of fear and ridicule?

[url=http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/editorial/story/4232619p-4874116c.html]... are letters to the editor[/url] condemning the treatment of Hughes, including this one from Dr. Peter Markesteyn, retired Chief Medical Examiner for Manitoba:

quote:

Having known Lesley Hughes professionally and personally for over 25 years, I wish to state that she has not a grain of anti-Semitism in her.

Hughe will [url=http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/breakingnews/story/4233675p-4875283c.ht... to campaign[/url]:

quote:

But Hughes said she will campaign in the riding despite some confusing Elections Canada rules. She will have a website, participate in forums and door knock as long as Elections Canada gives the okay.
In the meantime, she is considering suing those who called her an anti-Semite for a 2002 column she wrote about the Sept. 11 attacks.
"I'm told I have a very strong case for slander and defamation," she said.

I would have to concur.

Thu, 2008-10-02 12:53

#126

coeus

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Hardner:
[b]Anybody who speaks out against promoting this dangerous and, yes, anti-Semitic theories about 9/11 is my friend in the moment that they do. [/b]

But from what I've read, I don't see how her theories are anti-Semetic. According to the report she said "Israeli companies". The anti-Semitism came from the media who are unable to distinguish Jews from the Israeli government or Israeli companies.. as if they are all the same.

Thu, 2008-10-02 12:53

#127

coeus

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Hardner:
[b]Anybody who speaks out against promoting this dangerous and, yes, anti-Semitic theories about 9/11 is my friend in the moment that they do. [/b]

But from what I've read, I don't see how her theories are anti-Semetic. According to the report she said "Israeli companies". The anti-Semitism came from the media who are unable to distinguish Jews from the Israeli government or Israeli companies.. as if they are all the same.

Thu, 2008-10-02 12:59

#128

remind

Hope she sues them all.

Thu, 2008-10-02 12:59

#129

remind

Hope she sues them all.

Thu, 2008-10-02 13:04

#130

BetterRed

quote:

Originally posted by remind:
[b]Hope she sues them all.[/b]

Agreed.
Especially Dion has to answer for that rash and slippery move.
I mean wasnt she dumped and only learned about it on TV, without getting the actual phone call from the party?

Thu, 2008-10-02 13:04

#131

BetterRed

quote:

Originally posted by remind:
[b]Hope she sues them all.[/b]

Agreed.
Especially Dion has to answer for that rash and slippery move.
I mean wasnt she dumped and only learned about it on TV, without getting the actual phone call from the party?

Thu, 2008-10-02 13:56

#132

Fidel

quote:

Originally posted by aka Mycroft:
[b]
There are certainly unanswered questions with 9/11 but I think the untold story is one of negligence and missed opportunities and not of an "inside job" or of the Israelis, Iraqis or anyone other than Al-Qaeda being involved. [/b]

But [url=http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=7718]Who is Osama bin Laden?[/url] Who trained and armed Al Khattab? Shamil Baseyev? And what were the origins of the conflicts in Bosnia and Chechnya and Dagestan and Khyrgystan and so on?

[url=http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=SCO20061... U.S. government’s intimate on-going connection to al-Qaeda and a chief 9/11 plotter[/url]

quote:

[b] But just because the government exploited 911 as an opportunity to put into place its desire to attack Iraq (which David Frum outlined in his memoirs as being a motive force before 911) does not mean that the US planned 911 just as the way the US exploited Hurricane Katrina in order to privatize many services in New Orleans doesn't mean that the US caused the hurricane.[/b]

David Frum was just a speech writer for Crazy George, and he's just as disillusioned a conservative today as many European conservatives, and even some U.S. conservatives have said they are since this neocon cabal tookover the White House. Some U.S. hawks themselves have described Bush's global war on terror as a phony war for the sake of resource and real estate grabs in the Middle East and Central Asia.

The neocons are anything but stupid. They not only had the world's most well-funded intel agency warning them about probable attacks, there were also repeated warnings from world wide intelligence agencies, and which were stepped-up in the weeks and days leading up to 9-11. They can't claim ignorance. They cannot even claim stupidity, but high-ranking neocons and shadow government officials did go out of their way obstruct and hide the truth from 9-11 Commissioners as well as international justices who tried some of the alleged 9-11 masterminds in European courts.

[ 02 October 2008: Message edited by: Fidel ]

Thu, 2008-10-02 13:56

#133

Fidel

quote:

Originally posted by aka Mycroft:
[b]
There are certainly unanswered questions with 9/11 but I think the untold story is one of negligence and missed opportunities and not of an "inside job" or of the Israelis, Iraqis or anyone other than Al-Qaeda being involved. [/b]

But [url=http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=7718]Who is Osama bin Laden?[/url] Who trained and armed Al Khattab? Shamil Baseyev? And what were the origins of the conflicts in Bosnia and Chechnya and Dagestan and Khyrgystan and so on?

[url=http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=SCO20061... U.S. government’s intimate on-going connection to al-Qaeda and a chief 9/11 plotter[/url]

quote:

[b] But just because the government exploited 911 as an opportunity to put into place its desire to attack Iraq (which David Frum outlined in his memoirs as being a motive force before 911) does not mean that the US planned 911 just as the way the US exploited Hurricane Katrina in order to privatize many services in New Orleans doesn't mean that the US caused the hurricane.[/b]

David Frum was just a speech writer for Crazy George, and he's just as disillusioned a conservative today as many European conservatives, and even some U.S. conservatives have said they are since this neocon cabal tookover the White House. Some U.S. hawks themselves have described Bush's global war on terror as a phony war for the sake of resource and real estate grabs in the Middle East and Central Asia.

The neocons are anything but stupid. They not only had the world's most well-funded intel agency warning them about probable attacks, there were also repeated warnings from world wide intelligence agencies, and which were stepped-up in the weeks and days leading up to 9-11. They can't claim ignorance. They cannot even claim stupidity, but high-ranking neocons and shadow government officials did go out of their way obstruct and hide the truth from 9-11 Commissioners as well as international justices who tried some of the alleged 9-11 masterminds in European courts.

[ 02 October 2008: Message edited by: Fidel ]

Thu, 2008-10-02 14:24

#134

Unionist

I think 9/11 conspiracy theorists are in need of sympathy and emotional support. I include those who post on babble.

Having said that, I'm going to request - without much hope of success - that babblers take their conspiracy theories to other threads (God knows there are enough of them). This thread is about the shameless political persecution and defamation of Lesley Hughes - regardless of whether her views about 9/11 are brilliant or insipidly stupid.

Thu, 2008-10-02 14:24

#135

Unionist

I think 9/11 conspiracy theorists are in need of sympathy and emotional support. I include those who post on babble.

Having said that, I'm going to request - without much hope of success - that babblers take their conspiracy theories to other threads (God knows there are enough of them). This thread is about the shameless political persecution and defamation of Lesley Hughes - regardless of whether her views about 9/11 are brilliant or insipidly stupid.

Thu, 2008-10-02 14:46

#136

Fidel

quote:

Originally posted by unionist:
[b]I think 9/11 conspiracy theorists are in need of sympathy and emotional support. I include those who post on babble.[/b]

That's entirely your opinion, and you're welcome to it, unionist. And you can keep the condescending remarks to yourself, thanks. Stephane Dion is just a Liberal figurehead, and his party will be relegated to phony opposition to the conservatives, once again. Nobody cares about that party any more, and especially not the Vancouver MacIntyres. Liberals are phony, and so is the totally phony-baloney war on terror one huge international false flage operation.

[url=http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/CHO110A.html]Blowback?[/url]

[url=http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=5091]After five years of torture at Gitmo Bay[/url], Khalid Sheikh Mohammed says, ~[b][i]"I'm just a patsy!"[/i][/b]

We know who the real perps are.

Watergate? IranContragate? Iraqgate? Hell, no, it's [url=http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/CHO110A.html]Osamagate![/url] That, too, was a coverup by both plutocratic parties running the show in the USsA.

[url=http://www.senate.gov/~rpc/releases/1997/iran.htm]Republicans accuse Clinton Admin of aiding and abetting militant Islam wing of the CIA[/url]

[ 02 October 2008: Message edited by: Fidel ]

Thu, 2008-10-02 14:46

#137

Fidel

quote:

Originally posted by unionist:
[b]I think 9/11 conspiracy theorists are in need of sympathy and emotional support. I include those who post on babble.[/b]

That's entirely your opinion, and you're welcome to it, unionist. And you can keep the condescending remarks to yourself, thanks. Stephane Dion is just a Liberal figurehead, and his party will be relegated to phony opposition to the conservatives, once again. Nobody cares about that party any more, and especially not the Vancouver MacIntyres. Liberals are phony, and so is the totally phony-baloney war on terror one huge international false flage operation.

[url=http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/CHO110A.html]Blowback?[/url]

[url=http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=5091]After five years of torture at Gitmo Bay[/url], Khalid Sheikh Mohammed says, ~[b][i]"I'm just a patsy!"[/i][/b]

We know who the real perps are.

Watergate? IranContragate? Iraqgate? Hell, no, it's [url=http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/CHO110A.html]Osamagate![/url] That, too, was a coverup by both plutocratic parties running the show in the USsA.

[url=http://www.senate.gov/~rpc/releases/1997/iran.htm]Republicans accuse Clinton Admin of aiding and abetting militant Islam wing of the CIA[/url]

[ 02 October 2008: Message edited by: Fidel ]

Thu, 2008-10-02 15:42

#138

blogbart

quote:

Unionist: You may wish to read her original 2002 article and try to figure out why she apologized and what creeps like Dion represent for Canada.

quote:

Then Unionist said: I'm going to request - without much hope of success - that babblers take their conspiracy theories to other threads (God knows there are enough of them). This thread is about the shameless political persecution and defamation of Lesley Hughes - regardless of whether her views about 9/11 are brilliant or insipidly stupid.

You asked what she apologized for did you not? You also say it is about "shameless political persecution and defamation".

Well, you can't just tease out the alleged (and unsupported) anti-semitic element of Hughes' comments and ignore the context in which they were made. The context is what you call "9/11 conspiracy" .. but what she, and those of us Babblers supporting her, would simply call questions and doubts of the official conspiracy theory. It is clear that she was dumped because of this context.

And, frankly, with respect, if you want to call Dion a "creep" for dumping her, you may as well include yourself in that category too. I don't think you or Dion are creeps though but just unwilling to ask some questions.

Thu, 2008-10-02 15:42

#139

blogbart

quote:

Unionist: You may wish to read her original 2002 article and try to figure out why she apologized and what creeps like Dion represent for Canada.

quote:

Then Unionist said: I'm going to request - without much hope of success - that babblers take their conspiracy theories to other threads (God knows there are enough of them). This thread is about the shameless political persecution and defamation of Lesley Hughes - regardless of whether her views about 9/11 are brilliant or insipidly stupid.

You asked what she apologized for did you not? You also say it is about "shameless political persecution and defamation".

Well, you can't just tease out the alleged (and unsupported) anti-semitic element of Hughes' comments and ignore the context in which they were made. The context is what you call "9/11 conspiracy" .. but what she, and those of us Babblers supporting her, would simply call questions and doubts of the official conspiracy theory. It is clear that she was dumped because of this context.

And, frankly, with respect, if you want to call Dion a "creep" for dumping her, you may as well include yourself in that category too. I don't think you or Dion are creeps though but just unwilling to ask some questions.

Thu, 2008-10-02 15:51

#140

martin dufresne

We have 'creeps' but do we have 'bloods'?

Thu, 2008-10-02 15:51

#141

martin dufresne

We have 'creeps' but do we have 'bloods'?

Thu, 2008-10-02 16:28

#142

blogbart

lol

btw, i hope Hughes sues all of them too.

Thu, 2008-10-02 16:28

#143

Unionist

I would request the 9/11 scholars and experts to go post in another thread. This is about the election, Dion, and the dumping of Lesley Hughes.

Please don't tell me I have to share the 9/11 obsessional paranoia in order to support Lesley Hughes. That's a good way to ensure that no one will support her.

I fully support Lesley Hughes - including her freedom of conscience and her right to speculate on 9/11 conspiracies - without her being demonized as an anti-Semite or anything else.

And please don't kid yourselves. She was dumped because she mentioned:

ISRAEL

-- not because of her peculiar notions about 9/11 or any non-existent attack on Jews.

The real anti-Semites are those who identify the Jewish people with the crimes of the state of Israel. They are the ones that prevailed upon Dion to dump Lesley Hughes. The 9/11 stuff is a diversion.

Thu, 2008-10-02 16:28

#144

blogbart

lol

btw, i hope Hughes sues all of them too.

Thu, 2008-10-02 16:28

#145

Unionist

I would request the 9/11 scholars and experts to go post in another thread. This is about the election, Dion, and the dumping of Lesley Hughes.

Please don't tell me I have to share the 9/11 obsessional paranoia in order to support Lesley Hughes. That's a good way to ensure that no one will support her.

I fully support Lesley Hughes - including her freedom of conscience and her right to speculate on 9/11 conspiracies - without her being demonized as an anti-Semite or anything else.

And please don't kid yourselves. She was dumped because she mentioned:

ISRAEL

-- not because of her peculiar notions about 9/11 or any non-existent attack on Jews.

The real anti-Semites are those who identify the Jewish people with the crimes of the state of Israel. They are the ones that prevailed upon Dion to dump Lesley Hughes. The 9/11 stuff is a diversion.

Thu, 2008-10-02 16:36

#146

Michelle

Perhaps if you'd like people to stop diverting the thread with discussion about the validity of 9-11 conspiracy theories, you should stop saying that people who believe them are suffering from "obsessive paranoia" and such.

It's not really fair to demand that other people stop talking about the validity of 9-11 conspiracy theories when you do it yourself.

I know you're trying to make the point that you don't have to agree with her to support her, but dropping insulting adjectives like that into your posts will guarantee that you will continue the off-topic debate.

Thu, 2008-10-02 16:36

#147

Michelle

Perhaps if you'd like people to stop diverting the thread with discussion about the validity of 9-11 conspiracy theories, you should stop saying that people who believe them are suffering from "obsessive paranoia" and such.

It's not really fair to demand that other people stop talking about the validity of 9-11 conspiracy theories when you do it yourself.

I know you're trying to make the point that you don't have to agree with her to support her, but dropping insulting adjectives like that into your posts will guarantee that you will continue the off-topic debate.

Thu, 2008-10-02 16:40

#148

Unionist

Ok, Michelle, you're right and I apologize.

Now please ask posters here to stop diverting the discussion.

This damned discussion has seen: 1) people defaming Lesley Hughes as an anti-Semite; 2) people reviving the 9/11 stuff. I find it a little frustrating, so I lose my cool.

I thought I made it very clear that I defend her right - and [b]everyone's right[/b] - to speculate about 9/11 without being persecuted. I do, however, have my own views about those who dedicate their lives to the pursuit of the notion that the U.S. is all-powerful.

Thu, 2008-10-02 16:40

#149

Unionist

Ok, Michelle, you're right and I apologize.

Now please ask posters here to stop diverting the discussion.

This damned discussion has seen: 1) people defaming Lesley Hughes as an anti-Semite; 2) people reviving the 9/11 stuff. I find it a little frustrating, so I lose my cool.

I thought I made it very clear that I defend her right - and [b]everyone's right[/b] - to speculate about 9/11 without being persecuted. I do, however, have my own views about those who dedicate their lives to the pursuit of the notion that the U.S. is all-powerful.

Thu, 2008-10-02 19:31

#150

Fidel

I agree with Michelle. And I might add that if there [i]was[/i] excessive paranoia expressed in these last few posts, it concerns a tiny Middle Eastern desert nation that only exists since 1948 [i]because[/i] it was and continues to be a front line nation in the war on democracy. And if the USsA does happen to gain alternate footholds militarily in Iraq and Afghanistan or even a dismembered Pakistan, then Israelis will most certainly be left to their own devices by the vicious empire. And Israel's eternal enemies have been armed to the eye teeth by alleged allies for a long time.

Thu, 2008-10-02 19:31

#151

Fidel

I agree with Michelle. And I might add that if there [i]was[/i] excessive paranoia expressed in these last few posts, it concerns a tiny Middle Eastern desert nation that only exists since 1948 [i]because[/i] it was and continues to be a front line nation in the war on democracy. And if the USsA does happen to gain alternate footholds militarily in Iraq and Afghanistan or even a dismembered Pakistan, then Israelis will most certainly be left to their own devices by the vicious empire. And Israel's eternal enemies have been armed to the eye teeth by alleged allies for a long time.

Stйphane Dion dumps candidate for article on 9/11

ISRAEL

ISRAEL

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