What has the Layton-led New Democrats done right this election
Tue, 2008-10-14 07:05
#1
What has the Layton-led New Democrats done right this election
Tue, 2008-10-14 07:05
#2
Here's one thing:
quote:
[b]MAKE IT HAPPEN - VOTE NDP[/b]
Politics:- “The nonsense election - the election that didn’t need to be called, but which has turned dramatically in the past seven days - comes to a head tonight. The results will be declared at the usual time, by the usual suspects, on the usual channels.”
So says the CanWest News Service, going on:
“The votes will already have been cast in many regions by the time CBC’s comedy duo of Rick Mercer Report and This Hour Has 22 Minutes (CBC - 8 and 8:30 p.m.) air their final pre-election shows, but no matter. Mercer and friends could provide some much-needed laughs on what is likely to be a remarkably unfunny evening.”
The worst-case scenario? That George W. Harper is re-elected with an majority.
That won’t happen, though, and Jack Layton and his NDP might yet gather in the enough votes to put them into power.
There’s still time.
When you’re standing in the polling station deciding where to put your X, remember — the NDP is the only federal party to have appointed a spokesman specifically to look after digital issues and affairs.
“This election gives us a real opportunity to put issues like Net Neutrality and reasonable copyright on the election agenda,” Layton said not at a press conference or or a rally, but in a YouTube video which first showed upon p2pnet.net.
He also said, “We don’t want to see hidden fees and gouging and service slow-downs all in the interests of promoting the objectives of certain large corporations.”
But if today it goes the way a lot of people are predicting, that Harper gets in, but against a strengthened opposition, not exactly the result he was hoping for when he went went directly against his own legislation to fix election dates at four-year intervals — we could very well end up with what might be the best case:
A discredited Conservative government constantly and tightly reined in by two highly vocal, and distinctly people 2 people, parties which could coalesce at the drop of a hat when the need arises, with the (terminally weakened?) Liberals hovering ineffectively in the background.
Jon Newton - p2pnet
Tue, 2008-10-14 08:48
#3
For me, the most significant advance was this:
"I'm Jack Layton, and [b]I'm running to be Prime Minister[/b]."
It reframed the party's aspirations wonderfully. Sure, he wasn't likely going to win, this time, but we weren't going to be regarded as serious contenders until we started taking ourselves seriously.
Tue, 2008-10-14 09:15
#4
That and they ran the best campaign of all the parties period. As it was said by some pundits (and here on rabble) Harper made this campaign about leadership. Dion's team tried to change the narrative to greenshift. The NDP on the other hand simply, and brilliantly, co-oped the CON narrative and flipped it right back on them. And I think, maybe for the first time in decades the media HAD to pay some real attention to the party. And finally, no matter the result of this election, Layton just might have pulled off the other narrative... that they are the real, defato opposition to the Cons. So, barring coalition speculation (and assuming Con minority)in this election, two years from now or whatever this campaign put the NDP is a very strong position for next time too.
Tue, 2008-10-14 09:22
#5
Yes..going for the top prize and recognizing the gullibility of Canadians when it comes to visual media, and actually advertising with a good ad campaign. The new strong was pretty good and I think Jack did everything right.
He led Canadians to the water trough..if they don't have the brains to drink that's their problem...not the NDP's.
Frankly I don't know how he has the patience to deal with a biased media all the time...but I guess that's why he is a leader...they can't rattle him with there fraud and lies.
How many times have you heard a pundit or interviewer say" Why are you going to TAX corporations" ( with opposing party reps shaking there heads in a no fashion) when we all know he isn't planning to TAX but just freeze the current tax and not implement a tax break. This obviously isn't too complicated to understand much less for seasoned reporters too. Talk about a fraud and setup perforated on the Canadian people by conservative media outlets. CBC,CTV,GLOBAL all biased garbage when it comes to the NDP.
It's F*&^%&ing amazing that Jack could even pull off 20 percent support given the power the enemy has going for it. Now just think if there was an NDP biased MSM..what would happen? That is what Canada needs to balance out the corruption. You fight fire with fire, but the funny thing is the NDP msm wouldn't have to lie or cheat like the others.
[img]biggrin.gif" border="0[/img]
Tue, 2008-10-14 09:28
#6
Running as a distinct party and not just a cheering section for the Liberals has increased my respect for the NDP greatly.
The NDP also recognized that elections are about leaders, and put their leader Jack Layton out front and centre.
I think the NDP has made the Liberals realize this time that the left-of-centre vote cannot be taken for granted.
Tue, 2008-10-14 09:30
#7
Erstwhile
I'd tend to agree with Jeff. Layton's approach this time has given the party credibility that they haven't had since Broadbent, really.
And I did like the "a new kind of strong" ads - though all this "strength" bullshit that we hear about every election just seems to play into humanity's inner fascist, but eh.
Is it going to lead to a breakthrough for the NDP? I sure hope so, but we'll see. In the meantime, though, any shortfall in the NDP's numbers can't be blamed on the campaign. I think the NDP's done a hell of a job this election.
Tue, 2008-10-14 09:46
#8
Cueball
Nasty partisan attacks and smears by Layton New Dems on this site have encouraged me to vote Liberal, which is what I will be doing this time around. In this they did wrong.
Furthermore, I generally see no substantive difference between the Liberals and the NDP, and on top of that there are serious flaws with the "Cap and Trade" scheme that the NDP and Greens are proposing, which is basically neo-liberal smoke and mirrors, as far as I am concerned. I will be going with a direct tax on poluters.
Tue, 2008-10-14 09:51
#9
Are you for real? I feel like I stepped into Bizarro Land for a sec with your post.
Tue, 2008-10-14 09:51
#10
As far as I know everyone who posts on this site is a private citizen with no official role in the NDP campaign - I really don't think this is the place to be a cry-baby and go on about personal fits of pique over what someone on babble may have said.
This is about the overall NDP strategy and tactics.
Tue, 2008-10-14 09:54
#11
Cueball
quote:
Originally posted by DrConway:
[b]Are you for real? I feel like I stepped into Bizarro Land for a sec with your post.[/b]
Totally, my experience of rank and file NDP membership on this site has been appauling. Woke up this morning to another thread full of NDP children taunting someone. And yeah, the cap and trade thing is just bollocks,
[ 14 October 2008: Message edited by: Cueball ]
Tue, 2008-10-14 09:58
#12
Krystalline Kraus
quote:
That and they ran the best campaign of all the parties period.
do you mind explaining that to me? I mean, four lost candidates shows a serious problem with candidate vetting (not that the other parties didn't have problems), especially in the case of the former NDP candidate from Durham?
Tue, 2008-10-14 09:59
#13
quote:
Originally posted by JeffWells:
[b]For me, the most significant advance was this:"I'm Jack Layton, and [b]I'm running to be Prime Minister[/b]."
It reframed the party's aspirations wonderfully. Sure, he wasn't likely going to win, this time, but we weren't going to be regarded as serious contenders until we started taking ourselves seriously.[/b]
This hits the nail on the head. I never once heard a reporter ask Dion- you can't possibly win, what are you talking about.
What Jack did was shove back at the media, by saying we are a serious party, with a serious plan to govern. What happens in this election will set the stage for the next and the NDP campaign this time was very, very good.
Tue, 2008-10-14 10:02
#14
quote:
Originally posted by Cueball:
[b]Nasty partisan attacks and smears by Layton New Dems on this site have encouraged me to vote Liberal, which is what I will be doing this time around.[/b]
Well, I will say that makes no less sense than most arguments for strategic voting.
Tue, 2008-10-14 10:05
#15
Cueball
Well, normally I don't vote at all, but this time I thought I might after being so encouraged here.
Besides, it doesn't really matter. Its just a spectacle mostly anyway.
[ 14 October 2008: Message edited by: Cueball ]
Tue, 2008-10-14 10:06
#16
quote:
Originally posted by Cueball:
[b]Totally, my experience of rank and file NDP membership on this site has been appauling. Woke up this morning to another thread full of NDP children taunting someone. And yeah, the cap and trade thing is just bollocks,
[ 14 October 2008: Message edited by: Cueball ][/b]
Cueball quit acting like a spoiled child and trying to derail this thread. How you get away with this continued behaviour is beyond me. If you want to start a thread about how the NDP is so bad because some totally anonymous people on babble were mean to me than go ahead.
Tue, 2008-10-14 10:06
#17
remind
quote:
Originally posted by Cueball:
[b]Totally, my experience of rank and file NDP membership on this site has been appauling. Woke up this morning to another thread full of NDP children taunting someone. [/b]
Much like yours? [img]tongue.gif" border="0[/img]
Tue, 2008-10-14 10:08
#18
Cueball
Uh... I dont recall ever engaging in any partisan gang attacks against individual posters? Name one. Sure, I have no problem with an individual tussle with someone but the Pirrana effect is really ugly.
Tue, 2008-10-14 10:11
#19
Cueball
quote:
Originally posted by Bookish Agrarian:
[b]Cueball quit acting like a spoiled child and trying to derail this thread. How you get away with this continued behaviour is beyond me. If you want to start a thread about how the NDP is so bad because some totally anonymous people on babble were mean to me than go ahead.[/b]
What's the matter poopsey, I was just reflecting on how well the Layton-led New Democrats have run the campaign. As far as this site goes you guys botched it.
Remember you guys are my number one contact with the party.
[ 14 October 2008: Message edited by: Cueball ]
Tue, 2008-10-14 10:15
#20
If the NDP has managed to turn off someone like you - they must be doing something right!
Regarding the issue of candidates stepping down etc...I think that this happened to ALL parties and it is a lesson to us all to make changes to the vetting process for candidates.
When people analyze the 2008 election campaign down the road, i think that these individual candidate issues will be be a footnote and a minor distraction.
Tue, 2008-10-14 10:16
#21
Grow up
Move to another thread
This is clearly about positve things, if you want a negative thread about what a poor picked on little 5th grader you are start another.
Tue, 2008-10-14 10:17
#22
Grow up
Move to another thread
This is clearly about positve things, if you want a negative thread about what a poor picked on little 5th grader you are start another.
Tue, 2008-10-14 10:17
#23
remind
quote:
Originally posted by Cueball:
[b]Uh... I dont recall ever engaging in any partisan gang attacks against individual posters? Name one. Sure, I have no problem with an individual tussle with someone but the Pirrana effect is really ugly.[/b]
Ack, it happens to me all the time cueball, and it's usually a bunch of non-NDP men here, just like yesterday. And I agree individual tussles are the best, however, usually people need to put their 2 cents worth in, just as you do when passing by a scene where you want to comment...
Tue, 2008-10-14 10:18
#24
Cueball
quote:
Originally posted by Stockholm:
[b]If the NDP has managed to turn off someone like you - they must be doing something right![/b]
Well, you were primary in preventing me from supporting the NDP for many years now, but the general atmosphere here, slanders, gang attacks, and so on and so forth was a real motivator in an entirely alternate direction.
I'd really like to see the NDP promoting an "democratic" culture within itself, but nothing like that has been evident over the last few weeks, so....
Tue, 2008-10-14 10:30
#25
peterjcassidy
Add to the running for PM and the call to unite the left and progressives of all stripes (Liberals, Greens, Bloc, Progressive Conservatives) under Jack, principled and smart stands on Afghanistan, the environment tax cuts and other issues, and I and most New Democrats are quite happy with Jack. He has carved out a good identity and good position for our party in the last few years and in this election that will do us well this time and the years to come.
Add to the moral victory of a progressive campaign I anticipate that following this election there will be over 100 ridings where New Democrats got over 20% of the vote and, if we didn't win them this time, we will win them next time. We are well positioned to offer a "progressive" alternative to Canada.
Go Jack Go.
[img]wink.gif" border="0[/img]
Tue, 2008-10-14 10:33
#26
quote:
Well, you were primary in preventing me from supporting the NDP for many years now
I'm flattered.
Tue, 2008-10-14 10:42
#27
Krystalline Kraus
quote:
That and they ran the best campaign of all the parties period
Mojoraod1, can you please explain what you mean by this statement? I think the NDP has had a serious problem concerning how they vett their candidates (ie, ex-NDP Durham candidate)?
Tue, 2008-10-14 10:42
#28
Cueball
Its true, reading you convinced me that the NDP is not much different than the Liberals.
quote:
Originally posted by peterjcassidy:
[b]Add to the running for PM and the call to unite the left and progressives of all stripes (Liberals, Greens, Bloc, Progressive Conservatives) under Jack, principled and smart stands on Afghanistan, the environment tax cuts and other issues, and I and most New Democrats are quite happy with Jack. He has carved out a good identity and good position for our party in the last few years and in this election that will do us well this time and the years to come.
Add to the moral victory of a progressive campaign I anticipate that following this election there will be over 100 ridings where New Democrats got over 20% of the vote and, if we didn't win them this time, we will win them next time. We are well positioned to offer a "progressive" alternative to Canada.Go Jack Go.
[img]wink.gif" border="0[/img] [/b]
Hardly.
First off, there is very little evidence of a "principled" stand on Afghanistan. The NDP position and the Green party position as enounciated by various leading NDP'rs, seems to be about the same.
Secondly, the Cap and Trade thing is just neo-liberal bozo economics. The whole scheme reminds me of the Phoney-Baloney [url=http://www.greenspirit.org.uk/resources/Lets.htm]LETS Economics[/url]. I'll go with a direct tax on poluters, as a step in the righ direction.
Thirdly, though the issue of Palestine, never made it to anyones radar, there continues to be very little in the NDP position that is substantially different than the Liberals.
Fourthly, Dion comes off as a much, much, much more sincere and human person than Jack Layton ever will.
Fifthly, not a word on Omar Khadr from the NDP, except that Beyers wants to set up special legislation to conduct special prosecution of the case, here in Canada. That was pretty ugly.
Sixthly, the NDP core here has outdone itself in ruthlessly smearing, and attacking people who say things that are openly critical of the NDP.
I would vote for Duceppe, but can't so...
[ 14 October 2008: Message edited by: Cueball ]
Tue, 2008-10-14 10:45
#29
quote:
Originally posted by peterjcassidy:
[b]I anticipate that following this election there will be over 100 ridings where New Democrats got over 20% of the vote and, if we didn't win them this time, we will win them next time.[/b]
A good point. This election will redefine the next tier of competitive ridings and low-hanging fruit. I'm anticipating a lot of tight three-way races, especially in BC and Ontario, and some of them are probably going to break New Democrats' hearts tonight. But assuming a minority, we won't need to wait long for the next opportunity.
Tue, 2008-10-14 10:47
#30
remind
quote:
Originally posted by Mojoroad1:
[b]That and they ran the best campaign of all the parties period. As it was said by some pundits (and here on rabble) Harper made this campaign about leadership. Dion's team tried to change the narrative to greenshift. The NDP on the other hand simply, and brilliantly, co-oped the CON narrative and flipped it right back on them. And I think, maybe for the first time in decades the media HAD to pay some real attention to the party. And finally, no matter the result of this election, Layton just might have pulled off the other narrative... that they are the real, defato opposition to the Cons. So, barring coalition speculation (and assuming Con minority)in this election, two years from now or whatever this campaign put the NDP is a very strong position for next time too.[/b]
I agree with your comments, and feel the same way, this election changed the fabric, and I believe the use of internet social groups and youtube was significant.
Tue, 2008-10-14 10:56
#31
Cap-and-trade is not neo-liberal economics, its just economics. It does work, and is currently being set up in Europe. A direct carbon tax works too.
I think its too late to change your mind Cueball. Happy voting!
As for what the New Democrats have done right and wrong...
[b]Right[/b]
They have, from the top anyways, run a very clean and professional campaign. Probably the best out of any of the parties. Frequent and colourful positive and negative advertisements, very professional press conferences. The running for Prime Minister tack worked well enough, reflecting a change in attitude for the party. (I will say it comes off as a little disingenuous at times) They came reasonably close to contending to be the official opposition.
[b]Wrong[/b]
I'm not sure whether to characterize this as a wrong thing or not, but the NDP has shifted sharply from being a progressive urban party to a populist party. Many issues they have started concentrating on are very small, designed more to attract votes than anything else: Corporate Tax hikes (which, I'm sorry, is a terrible idea in this country), corporate profits, banks, ATM fees, Liberal abstensions, Stephen Harper's sweater.
I don't know. To me, they've completely ceded the ground of parlimentary gadfly.
Its more an ideological shift than anything. If they do overtake the Liberals this election or next, it might have been worth it. But I don't see the NDP doing that.
They also could vet thier candidates a little better. It cost them 2 possible seats in BC.
Tue, 2008-10-14 10:58
#32
Cueball
quote:
Originally posted by West Coast Greeny:
[b]Cap-and-trade is not neo-liberal economics, its just economics. It does work, and is currently being set up in Europe. A direct carbon tax works too.[/b]
Works by trading carbon credits with who?
And also, how can you say it "works" in the same sentence where you basically admit it hasn't been established, even in Europe?
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtORVi7GybY]PROTEST-Indigenous Peoples "2nd MAY REVOLT" at the UNPFII[/url]
[ 14 October 2008: Message edited by: Cueball ]
Tue, 2008-10-14 11:03
#33
Re NDP.
I thought Jack Layton's "running for Prime Minister" motif was genius. Nothing inspires a second look like a person who refuses to be boxed in by prevailing notions about the NDP's ability to only gain enough seats to be ever be a junior partner in a government, instead of [i]being[/i] the government.
Tue, 2008-10-14 11:22
#34
quote:
First off, there is very little evidence of a "principled" stand on Afghanistan. The NDP position and the Green party position as enounciated by various leading NDP'rs, seems to be about the same.
What is unprincipled about it? They want Canadian troops out don't they? Should we stay and meddle with the lives of ordinary afgahns?
quote:
Sixthly, the NDP core here has outdone itself in ruthlessly smearing, and attacking people who say things that are openly critical of the NDP.
The core is pretty large, are you sure you want to judge us all based on your expierences on Babble?
Tue, 2008-10-14 11:25
#35
Cueball
No major NDP leader has been saying anything about a withdrawal, except from the "combat mission", that is not a withdrawal from Afghanistan. As far as I can tell the idea that NDP is opposed to Canadian forces being present in Afghanistan is a myth being put about by their opponents.
Tue, 2008-10-14 11:39
#36
Why don't you start your own political party?
Tue, 2008-10-14 11:41
#37
DR.Conway:
quote:
I thought Jack Layton's "running for Prime Minister" motif was genius. Nothing inspires a second look like a person who refuses to be boxed in by prevailing notions about the NDP's ability to only gain enough seats to be ever be a junior partner in a government, instead of being the government.
He announced it, but I'm not sure if he walked the walk. It's a constant critism (I'm guilty of it too) that I get back about the NDP... Exceedingly good at picking apart Harper and the Cons, but fail to give a vision of our own. Well, thats not true, but the vision seems to be secondary to the message of the "wrongness of the Conservatives". Not to say this wasn't a good step from Layton, but it'll have to be taken to the next level... Screw telling us why the Cons are wrong and start with telling us why the NDP is right (act as the leader and not the opposition).
Outside of a couple other points, it seemed like a good campaign (from what i saw atleast). I would have liked to see a little more stress from the NDP regarding PR as well (It'd win votes here atleast... EMay declaring it as the first thing she'd do struck some chords here). I'd also like to see the campaign opened up away from the 'working families'... And not just a reword to 'hard working families' [img]tongue.gif" border="0[/img] Working singles and non-working students are voters too.
And cheers to anyone that got off their puters to campaign, tis your efforts that keep this (mostly-futile) democracy alive.
Tue, 2008-10-14 11:41
#38
remind
quote:
Originally posted by West Coast Greeny:
[b]...the NDP has shifted sharply from being a progressive urban party to a populist party. Many issues they have started concentrating on are very small, designed more to attract votes than anything else: Corporate Tax hikes (which, I'm sorry, is a terrible idea in this country), corporate profits, banks, ATM fees, Liberal abstensions, Stephen Harper's sweater. [/b]
Funny I never heard 1 mention of corporate tax hikes, what I heard was halting the corporate tax cuts, as promised by Dion and Harper. Moreover, the oil companies should not be making upwards of 44 billion a year off of our oil and destroying the environment to do it.
Furthermore, the NDP's roots are not "urban progressive" the NDP's roots are at the grass roots level where some of the thing you mention impact significantly. I see them as going back to their roots more.
And Layton's use of the sweater comments against Harper will be remembered for generations.
Tue, 2008-10-14 12:09
#39
quote:
Furthermore, the NDP's roots are not "urban progressive" the NDP's roots are at the grass roots level where some of the thing you mention impact significantly. I see them as going back to their roots more.
They can't. Canada dosen't really have a working class anymore. The people who toyle to make the goods we need(or want) live in China and Thailand, Botswana and Peru. What remains of Canada's blue colar workforce has been stolen by the other parties. The party is now forced to appeal to gentrifacation loving, capachino sipping middle class activists in order to survive. The party needs to be rejuvinated, but it still has some decent people inside it, and is still worth supporting. It's not easy to save an organization if you are not part of it.
[ 14 October 2008: Message edited by: CMOT Dibbler ]
Tue, 2008-10-14 12:35
#40
quote:
Originally posted by Cueball:
[b]Well, you were primary in preventing me from supporting the NDP for many years now, but the general atmosphere here, slanders, gang attacks, and so on and so forth was a real motivator in an entirely alternate direction.
I'd really like to see the NDP promoting an "democratic" culture within itself, but nothing like that has been evident over the last few weeks, so....[/b]
Cueball, last time I checked you've been one of the most vocal opponents of NDP policy around here. In so far that you are accusing people on rabble for turning you off the NDP I'd suggest that the majority of rabble posters are turned off you. the fact that you are 'non-partisan' is a bit of a misnomer. By your posts - mostly derogatory and negative- of course you are going to bring the ire of progressives. I highly doubt if Layton walked on water you would have voted NDP 'if at all' as you say. 'nuff said.
Tue, 2008-10-14 12:40
#41
quote:
Originally posted by Cueball:
[b]Nasty partisan attacks and smears by Layton New Dems on this site have encouraged me to vote Liberal, which is what I will be doing this time around. In this they did wrong. [/b]
That's great, but as you can see from the thread title, this is about what the NDP did RIGHT this election. I think there's another thread for left-wing criticism of the NDP - that would be an appropriate place for these comments. Don't worry, they'll see them there. [img]smile.gif" border="0[/img]
Tue, 2008-10-14 12:41
#42
quote:
Originally posted by CMOT Dibbler:
[b]They can't. Canada dosen't really have a working class anymore. The people who toyle to make the goods we need(or want) live in China and Thailand, Botswana and Peru. What remains of Canada's blue colar workforce has been stolen by the other parties. The party is now forced to appeal to gentrifacation loving, capachino sipping middle class activists in order to survive. The party needs to be rejuvinated, but it still has some decent people inside it, and is still worth supporting. It's not easy to save an organization if you are not part of it.
[ 14 October 2008: Message edited by: CMOT Dibbler ][/b]
Certainly the industrial working class is greatly diminished. But what about all those people working in the ever-expanding service sector?
Moreover, I don't know any reason not to consider nurses and teachers and social workers and construction workers and call centre personnel and etc. etc. 'working class'.
Tue, 2008-10-14 12:56
#43
quote:
Certainly the industrial working class is greatly diminished. But what about all those people working in the ever-expanding service sector?
OK, but can those people donate their time and money to the party?
Tue, 2008-10-14 12:56
#44
Cueball
quote:
Originally posted by Mojoroad1:
[b]Cueball, last time I checked you've been one of the most vocal opponents of NDP policy around here. In so far that you are accusing people on rabble for turning you off the NDP I'd suggest that the majority of rabble posters are turned off you. the fact that you are 'non-partisan' is a bit of a misnomer. By your posts - mostly derogatory and negative- of course you are going to bring the ire of progressives. I highly doubt if Layton walked on water you would have voted NDP 'if at all' as you say. 'nuff said.[/b]
Really, then why you post? I give credit where credit is due. But of course when I say things like, we should "give the NDP credit" for raising the issue of poverty, people call me a "liberal" or a communist or... something.
And as for "the majority of rabble posters are turned off you" Mr. joined on 07 August 2008 to flyer the board for the election campaign, with 174 flyers (posts) who gave you the right to speak for the majority of rabble posters, or their opinions of me? Nor do you have even the slightest idea of what I think and believe, but you seem more than happy to speak as if you do.
But this isn't just about me, its about a number of people all exposed to the same treatment, largely by fair weather Babblers with nearly no posting history, and a large amount of gall.
quote:
Originally posted by Michelle:
[b]That's great, but as you can see from the thread title, this is about what the NDP did RIGHT this election. I think there's another thread for left-wing criticism of the NDP - that would be an appropriate place for these comments. Don't worry, they'll see them there. [img]smile.gif" border="0[/img] [/b]
ok.
[ 14 October 2008: Message edited by: Cueball ]
Tue, 2008-10-14 13:01
#45
quote:
Originally posted by CMOT Dibbler:
[b]OK, but can those people donate their time and money to the party?[/b]
In the early days of the ccf, utterly impoverished (near starving) farmers and workers donated their time and money.
But I'm not a social democrat or a member of the ndp so I'm not going to comment further on this topic here. [img]wink.gif" border="0[/img]
Tue, 2008-10-14 13:07
#46
quote:
Originally posted by statica:
[b]do you mind explaining that to me? I mean, four lost candidates shows a serious problem with candidate vetting (not that the other parties didn't have problems), especially in the case of the former NDP candidate from Durham?[/b]
I think you answered your own question there. All the parties had that problem. It's a brave new world with the internet. Sure the vetting process could be better, but in the end those are small side notes. I could argue, I think quite legitimately, that at least the NDP kicked out it's perceived wingnuts. The others parties (mostly) just muzzle or keep theirs front and central! [img]wink.gif" border="0[/img]
Tue, 2008-10-14 13:08
#47
Cueball
Taking on the Green Party position on the environment, and softening their stand on Afghanistand so that it is more or less in line with the Greens has been an effective way of combating the challenge from the "left."
Tue, 2008-10-14 13:11
#48
bagkitty
quote:
Originally posted by CMOT Dibbler:
[b]OK, but can those people donate their time and money to the party?[/b]
Can and do, having served as both official agent during campaigns and financial officer for a riding association I have prepared the tax receipts... last time I did so almost half the total raised was from donations under $100. If you factor in the value of the time donated, well, the association would collapse without them.
Tue, 2008-10-14 13:20
#49
This is the last time I will bother to be baited by you, but I suppose i must defend my integrity. I have been a member of this board for a long, long time. Years in fact. The reason my moniker has a 1 after it is because my old email address changed and I could not recover my old password. for some reason, like many babblers, their old posts dissipated into the netherworld. Hence, you will not find any of my years old posts. oldgoat verified this. other than that, cueball put it to rest.
Tue, 2008-10-14 13:22
#50
quote:
Originally posted by CMOT Dibbler:
[b]They can't. Canada dosen't really have a working class anymore. The people who toyle to make the goods we need(or want) live in China and Thailand, Botswana and Peru. What remains of Canada's blue colar workforce has been stolen by the other parties. The party is now forced to appeal to gentrifacation loving, capachino sipping middle class activists in order to survive. The party needs to be rejuvinated, but it still has some decent people inside it, and is still worth supporting. It's not easy to save an organization if you are not part of it.[ 14 October 2008: Message edited by: CMOT Dibbler ][/b]
As it happens, this NDP man was an NDP man long before he got his B.Sc in nuclear science and even now, still lives in a rented apartment, doesn't drink cappucino at all, nor latte, and thinks soy milk is disgustingly, unspeakably gross.
So, stereotype much there, buddy?
Tue, 2008-10-14 13:24
#51
Cueball
quote:
Originally posted by Mojoroad1:
[b]This is the last time I will bother to be baited by you, but I suppose i must defend my integrity. I have been a member of this board for a long, long time. Years in fact. The reason my moniker has a 1 after it is because my old email address changed and I could not recover my old password. for some reason, like many babblers, their old posts dissipated into the netherworld. Hence, you will not find any of my years old posts. oldgoat verified this. other than that, cueball put it to rest.[/b]
Ahh thanks for the clarification. Who were you once, or do you mind me asking?
[ 14 October 2008: Message edited by: Cueball ]