What has the Layton-led New Democrats done right this election

Tue, 2008-10-14 13:45

Malcolm

The campaign was nearly flawless. Especially the decision to run to win. (Some of us have been advocating that for a while. It's usually gotten us accused of any number of thought crimes by people who advocate voting Liberal.)

Co-opting the Tory frame and flinging it back at them with a new kind of strong showed a new kind of seriousness.

Could have used Dion's support for the Tory corporate tax cuts as further evidence that the Liberals are just Conservatives.

Highly effective slap-down of Dion in the debate.

The one serious problem, I think, was candidate vetting (as statica has mentioned).

While one of these candidates (Durham) was a last minute filler, I understand, the other three were serious candidates, it seemed.

We may need to adapt a system as in the UK where the party heirarchy vets candidates before they are allowed to stand for a nomination.

Tue, 2008-10-14 13:52

#53

CMOT Dibbler

quote:

As it happens, this NDP man was an NDP man long before he got his B.Sc in nuclear science and even now, still lives in a rented apartment, doesn't drink cappucino at all, nor latte, and thinks soy milk is disgustingly, unspeakably gross.
So, stereotype much there, buddy?

My parent's aren't yuppies either, so maybe I should change the arguement just a tad...
There may be a working class that still exists in Canada, and many NDPers are not efeet urbanites but the working class the party speaks for isn't as well organized or well paid as they were in the past, so it has to try and snare people who are afluent and yuppiefied in order to get large cash infusions. If the Unions were still a major force in this country(and if Buzz Hargrove wasn't a turncoat,) it would be different, but...

Tue, 2008-10-14 14:36

#54

Left J.A.B.

quote:

Originally posted by Mojoroad1:
[b]
I highly doubt if Layton walked on water you would have voted NDP 'if at all' as you say. 'nuff said.[/b]

He would likely claim it is because New Democrats can't swim. [img]tongue.gif" border="0[/img]

Tue, 2008-10-14 14:55

#55

Toby Fourre

What I think Layton did right, especially in the last couple of weeks, is to bring the NDP message back to working people. For years, the NDP has wandered around in the desert looking for issues that would resonate with voters without much success. The financial crisis enabled the NDP to come home.

Tue, 2008-10-14 15:52

#56

enemy_of_capital

we ran to win and we took the right to task.

Tue, 2008-10-14 16:52

#57

Northern54

The thing that I liked the most about the campaign was that the NDP ran like it wanted to win. While it may not succeed, at least it gives the party a chance to win. No matter what, if a party does not run to win, it won't.

Wed, 2008-10-15 22:35

#58

NorthReport

One of the most important reasons the NDP had quite a successful campaign, and increased their seat count by close to 25% this election, is that the NDP maintained a two-pronged attack on their opponents and it paid off in spades. One prong was directed at one right-wing enemy the Harper Conservatives, and the other prong was directed squarely where it belonged, on the other right-wing enemy, the Dion Liberals. Layton put on a masterful display and more and more Canadians are starting to appreciate him as we saw in the leadership polling throughout the campaign.

Thu, 2008-10-16 05:44

#59

KenS

quote:

Nasty partisan attacks and smears by Layton New Dems on this site have encouraged me to vote Liberal, which is what I will be doing this time around. In this they did wrong.
Furthermore, I generally see no substantive difference between the Liberals and the NDP, and on top of that there are serious flaws with the "Cap and Trade" scheme that the NDP and Greens are proposing, which is basically neo-liberal smoke and mirrors, as far as I am concerned. I will be going with a direct tax on poluters.

I think it is reasonable to think I would be classified more as a thoughtful partisan than as a nasty partisan.

But I may change my ways if its going to ancourage new entertainment from Cueball.

But some editing is called for. I stared skimming.

Thu, 2008-10-16 09:09

#60

Krystalline Kraus Krystalline Kraus's picture

quote:

Nasty partisan attacks and smears by Layton New Dems on this site

Ya, those attacks really sucked on babble by people who couldn't even be bothered to read the articles I've written for rabble without making all these stupid assumptions about me and my political beliefs and then other people ganging up to protect the party.

And some things the NDP did as a party really sucked (though there are so many individual memebers who make up the NDP who have been so kind to me while a small small handful were pretty mean) nevermind the fact the party lost four candidates because of an extremely poor candidate vetting processes. I hope these issues will be strongly examined now that the craziness of the election is over.

But the NDP has been the best party regarding their support towards allowing Iraq War resisters to stay in Canada. It was on board supporting the issue well before the Liberals got involved and it was (the amazing) Olivia Chow who brought the June 3rd motion to our Parliament. Peggy Nash has been amazing, too, and her defeat is heartbreaking.

The NDP also has good ideas regarding helping to eradicate poverty (none of this liberal-wish-washy "poverty reduction" -- let's aim for poverty eradication) with mother and child care support and things like helping to pay for the high costs for prescription drugs and their wish to raise the min. wage.

Ed to add: I like how the NDP stands as a party to remind the Liberals that parliamentary politics can't be business as usual and that the Liberals can't take any votes from "the left" for granted.

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[ 16 October 2008: Message edited by: statica ]

Thu, 2008-10-16 09:31

#61

Gu

quote:

Originally posted by enemy_of_capital:
[b]we ran to win and we took the right to task.[/b]

Running to win was the big thing - but that meant, putting the NDP on par with the other party in terms of resources.

The message was simple and clear. It also became very easy to donate money to individual campaigns. I have no interest in donating to the “big pot” but giving what I could to some of the campaigns that need the support is necessary. I wouldn’t have given money at all!

I’ve become convinced that the NDP won’t be able to put itself in a winning position until it has a sustained apparatus on the ground in all regions. This is why I have faith that seats will (eventually) return in Saskatchewan. Conversely for those Liberals whom blame Dion for their ales they are sadly mistaken. They have many more systemic issues at play.

The question becomes how credible can the NDP make itself across the country and what kind of resources can the ridings count on generating?

While messaging is important – development of a proper base is critical.

Thu, 2008-10-16 09:34

#62

Krystalline Kraus Krystalline Kraus's picture

quote:

I think you answered your own question there. All the parties had that problem. It's a brave new world with the internet. Sure the vetting process could be better, but in the end those are small side notes. I could argue, I think quite legitimately, that at least the NDP kicked out it's perceived wingnuts. The others parties (mostly) just muzzle or keep theirs front and central!

**

quote:

perceived wingnuts

I'm actually insulted by your use of terms and your flippant callousness, Mojoroad1, in dealing with this issue.

Perceived wingnut??? I'm sorry, but I think what candidates such as Mr. McKeever said classifies them as more than just "perceived" "wingnuts" (perceieved, as if there could be any doubt?)

With all due respect, this is not about the "brave new world of the internet" since it is unfair to blame the Internet here just as it is equally as stupid to blame videogames for youth crime.

What these candidates (for example, Mr. McKeever) said should never have been said period, in any forum, anywhere. I'm all for open debate, but such debates should be civil. No one should be subjected to such vicious name calling and subjected to threats of rape and assault (which are illegal, to remind you) from anyone.

The Internet simply recorded what this candidate had said. I don't think the focus should be placed on blaming the Internet, but holding candidate’s responsible. And the respective parties should be held responsible for a failed vetting process (what Mr. McKeever had said was only a few months old)

That said, actually to break from your flippant stance regarding this issue, let me remind you that when other parties had this problem with their candidates, those candidates were removed a lot quicker and the reaction from the party's leader was much quicker/stronger.

Maybe you don’t care, but your statement of “perceived” “wingnut” really sucks. I don’t think you should be using the word “perceived” at all to deflect from what happened or claim the controversy was all made up or concocted by another political party as a unfounded smear tactic.

[ED: spelling challenged today]

[ 16 October 2008: Message edited by: statica ]

Thu, 2008-10-16 09:42

#63

SRB

quote:

While messaging is important – development of a proper base is critical.

I agree! But it means, among other things, the hard work of party building, like signing up new members, getting people involved in riding associations, participating in the political process between elections.

It's tough sometimes to get people who are uninformed and/or uninvolved for a variety of reasons excited about this often slow side of things when the horse race is not on, but of course still necessary for growth.

[ 16 October 2008: Message edited by: SRB ]

Thu, 2008-10-16 10:18

#64

Cueball

quote:

Originally posted by statica:
[b]
Ed to add: I like how the NDP stands as a party to remind the Liberals that parliamentary politics can't be business as usual and that the Liberals can't take any votes from "the left" for granted.
[ 16 October 2008: Message edited by: statica ][/b]

The same principle applies to the NDP.

Sun, 2008-10-26 18:04

#65

Wilf Day

quote:

Originally posted by West Coast Greeny:
[b]the NDP has shifted sharply from being a progressive urban party to a populist party.[/b]

quote:

Originally posted by David Young:
[b]Gordon Earle came just 938 votes short of defeating Conservative Gerald Keddy on election night; a remarkable achievement given the riding's previous election results:
.......2000*...2004....2006....2008
CON. 14328 14954 15108 14395
NDP. 4394 10140 11689 13457
LIB. 12677 12658 11629 9468
C.A. 4697 0 0 0
GR. 0 1700 1198 2090
C.H.P. 0 0 1376 513[/b]

Wow! Look at those 2004 figures compared with 2000 (and I have corrected one 2000 figure). A slice of Halifax West was added to the previous riding, explaining the 3,356 vote increase. But look at what happened to the old Reform vote, which had been fairly constant: 5,302 in 1997, 4,999 in 1993. Despite Keddy winning the seat in 1997, his vote went up only 192 votes in 2000, while 4,697 Reformers still didn't like the Tories.

Where did they go in 2004? It looks like most of them still disliked Keddy and the Tories so much they went NDP.

What motivated the Reformers in Nova Scotia in 1993 and 1997? Must have been something very different from the Western reformers.

Was it populism? Is that why so many switched to the NDP in 2004? Has Jack been striking a chord with populists all along, but did it better this time?

Mon, 2008-10-27 06:13

#66

KenS

quote:

The question becomes how credible can the NDP make itself across the country and what kind of resources can the ridings count on generating?

Two practical resources here. One is that the 2004 changes in the election financing laws gave riding associations the same tax receipting powers as the parties themselves: generous tax credits that can be offered to donors at all times, not only during at elections.

This makes direct ask fundraising a far more viable proposition for even the smallest group of activists. While direct ask is easy once you have been shown that it works, that does not come naturally. what comes naturally is hosting spaghetti diiners that make little or nothing for a lot of work put in.

So a little bit of leadership- some of which can even be delivered on-line- would go a long way to giving riding associations the tools to take off on their own.

And this dovetails with the other change that came with the 2004 cahnges: the per vote subsidy. The per vote subsidy means that there is a revenue stream that comes with increased vote share even in ridings where the NDP is not in a position to win in the near future.

And that revenue stream means it does NOT have to be a choice of [long term] deveopmental expenditures on riding association development VERSUS saving the funds to build the central campaign kitty for the next election.

Not to mention that putting some of that riding development work specifically into riding level fundraising, means that the riding associations that take it up need less from the party, and even becaome net contributirs as they build the vote in their riding.

Mon, 2008-10-27 06:32

#67

KenS

quote:

What motivated the Reformers in Nova Scotia in 1993 and 1997? Must have been something very different from the Western reformers.
Was it populism? Is that why so many switched to the NDP in 2004? Has Jack been striking a chord with populists all along, but did it better this time?

I'm not sure what you are saying. But vote behaviour studies make it pretty clear that in BC hinterlands at least, the Reform vote was highly populist. In fact, many of those voters identified the NDP as their 'party of affinity'. Essentially, they voted Reform for practical reasons. so when Reform was absorbed, those voters did not mostly go Coservative.

Reform in the East was a different animal. I never did figure it out myself. And it seemed to plateau in the low teens.

I would not assume that those former Reform votes ended up with the NDP, even though the shifts across elections in South Shore make it look like that. My personal hunch is that the Reform vote fragmented [including didn't vote], and that was a non-factor in the NDP increase.

Anecdotally, I know some 'populist types' who voted Reform in the early Nineties who switched to the NDP as it surged here in Nova Scotia. But my observation is that there are FAR fewer of those kind of folks than in hinterlands BC.

That said I think the NDP has found the key to appealing to rustbelt Ontario and to Nova Scotians outside Metro with the same kind of general appeal [that we call 'populist'] that used to only work really well only in BC [and to some degree Windsor and Hamilton].

Let alone making that message work across a broader swath of Canada.... for 10 years it looked like the NDP had completely forgotten how to make populist work.

Mon, 2008-10-27 13:37

#68

montrealais

From where I'm sitting, there's much to appreciate. Our intensive campaign in Quebec, where such a thing was unimaginable only two years ago, paid off hugely in terms of our place in the francophone media. In previous elections we were lucky to get two paragraphs; in this election I filled a scrapbook with the coverage of just our candidate, and the coverage of the party covered a wall of our office. (Our office! In 2006 I ran the election out of a cellphone, and put the poll map up on the wall of my kitchen!)

Sure, we "only" elected one MP -- but put yourself in 2006 and imagine saying that; we would have been absolutely beside ourselves with joy to elect (re-elect, in fact) an MP, be (and be seen to be) serious contenders in several ridings, and get our refund back in over 50. Below the iceberg's waterline we made [i]huge[/i] gains.

Mon, 2008-10-27 13:38

#69

montrealais

From where I'm sitting, there's much to appreciate. Our intensive campaign in Quebec, where such a thing was unimaginable only two years ago, paid off hugely in terms of our place in the francophone media. In previous elections we were lucky to get two paragraphs; in this election I filled a scrapbook with the coverage of just our candidate, and the coverage of the party covered a wall of our office. (Our office! In 2006 I ran the election out of a cellphone, and put the poll map up on the wall of my kitchen!)

Sure, we "only" elected one MP -- but put yourself in 2006 and imagine saying that; we would have been absolutely beside ourselves with joy to elect (re-elect, in fact) an MP, be (and be seen to be) serious contenders in several ridings, and get our refund back in over 50. (This will provide the funding for major organizing work between now and the next election.)

Below the iceberg's waterline we made [i]huge[/i] gains.

Mon, 2008-10-27 17:20

#70

adma

Re South Shore, consider another possibility: that a lot of the Reform/Alliance vote went Tory, but a lot of the "Red Tory" PC vote went NDP, because they couldn't hack a "united right" entity under Harper, regardless of Keddy's own moderation...

Mon, 2008-10-27 17:41

#71

TCD

quote:

Originally posted by West Coast Greeny:
[b][b]Right[/b]
They have, from the top anyways, run a very clean and professional campaign. Probably the best out of any of the parties. Frequent and colourful positive and negative advertisements, very professional press conferences. The running for Prime Minister tack worked well enough, reflecting a change in attitude for the party...
[b]Wrong[/b]
I'm not sure whether to characterize this as a wrong thing or not, but the NDP has shifted sharply from being a progressive urban party to a populist party. Many issues they have started concentrating on are very small, designed more to attract votes than anything else: Corporate Tax hikes (which, I'm sorry, is a terrible idea in this country), corporate profits, banks, ATM fees, Liberal abstensions, Stephen Harper's sweater.[/b]

Hmmm.
- If it was disigenuous for Jack Layton to run for Prime Minister it was disingenuous for Stephane Dion to run for Prime Minister. Layton regularly outpolled Dion as Best PM.
- The NDP didn't run on corporate tax hikes. They ran on a commitment to cancel corporate tax cuts. Which are moronic in the current climate.
- Elizabeth May ran on a commitment to stand up to Stephen Harper and then spent the election praising a leader who did the opposite. She lost for a reason. The abstentions mattered.

Mon, 2008-10-27 17:52

#72

Benoit

quote:

Originally posted by Buddy Kat:
[b]Yes..going for the top prize and recognizing the gullibility of Canadians when it comes to visual media, and actually advertising with a good ad campaign. The new strong was pretty good and I think Jack did everything right.
He led Canadians to the water trough..if they don't have the brains to drink that's their problem...not the NDP's.
Frankly I don't know how he has the patience to deal with a biased media all the time...but I guess that's why he is a leader...they can't rattle him with there fraud and lies.
How many times have you heard a pundit or interviewer say" Why are you going to TAX corporations" ( with opposing party reps shaking there heads in a no fashion) when we all know he isn't planning to TAX but just freeze the current tax and not implement a tax break. This obviously isn't too complicated to understand much less for seasoned reporters too. Talk about a fraud and setup perforated on the Canadian people by conservative media outlets. CBC,CTV,GLOBAL all biased garbage when it comes to the NDP.
[img]biggrin.gif" border="0[/img] [/b]

To me what Layton did best is to repeat: "I will cancel Harper's $50-billion tax giveaway to corporations." It was a very efficient slogan in the sense that such a cancellation invites the population to put their "dreams" in this leeway.

Mon, 2008-10-27 19:44

#73

Stockholm

quote:

the NDP has shifted sharply from being a progressive urban party to a populist party.

The NDP has ALWAYS been a leftwing populist party with roots in the labour movement. I don't know what makes you think it was ever a progressive urban party.

1972 - the NDP campaigned against "Corporate Welfare Bums"

1984 - the NDP campaigned against "the bobsey twins of Bay St."

This is nothing new.

Mon, 2008-10-27 20:05

#74

Aristotleded24

quote:

Originally posted by Stockholm:
[b]The NDP has ALWAYS been a leftwing populist party with roots in the labour movement. I don't know what makes you think it was ever a progressive urban party.
1972 - the NDP campaigned against "Corporate Welfare Bums"
1984 - the NDP campaigned against "the bobsey twins of Bay St."[/b]

And in 1988, Broadbent encouraged Canadians to choose the vision of Main Street over the visions of Bay Street and Wall Street.

Tue, 2008-10-28 00:11

#75

Malcolm

The main thing the NDP did right in this election was that we wanted to win.

Sun, 2021-11-21 18:56

#76

jfb

.

Tue, 2008-10-28 08:41

#77

vaudree

quote:

For me, the most significant advance was this:
"I'm Jack Layton, and I'm running to be Prime Minister."

Agree. That was powerful.

Liked his kitchen tables versus boardroom tables - though the first set of ads were better - and actually saw some of his ads on TV for once.

Jack did better during the debates than I've ever seen him - especially the second. I liked it when, after May's speel listing policies she liked from the other platforms, Jack said "... all that and ..."

Liked that Jack stressed that, except for one Liberal turncoat, that all the other NDP Premiers were fiscally prudent.

Considering that Layton was being squeezed by both the Liberals and the Greens, he not only held his own but actually increased his seat count.

Tue, 2008-10-28 08:52

#78

Cueball

But not his... (?)

Tue, 2008-10-28 09:37

#79

Benoit

But Layton has not increase is presence in Quebec. His view of federal politics is too uniform. He will have to dare speak more about the equalization formula to change that, I think.

Sun, 2014-07-13 20:58

#80

Brachina

Bump, mostly just to displace the hoard of useless ads. Plus its a cool flash back to 2008 election.

Mon, 2014-07-14 13:39

#81

Minty Stanhope

OH MY GOD.

I was reading all of this and thought they were all talking about 2011 until I saw 2008 stamped all over everything at the very end of the thread. Durr.

Mon, 2014-07-14 14:54

#82

Brachina

Hahahaha burn.

What has the Layton-led New Democrats done right this election

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