Judge tells woman not to call police again

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Originally posted by Stargazer:
[b]You've gotten your answers G. Pie, and you simply (and clearly) refuse to look at them, understand them[/b]

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No, I've read them and understand them and just don't think they're compelling, except for the women who are actually in those situations. Children, immigration, death threats, economics, etc., none of these apply in many circumstances, including my friend's.

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[b]and in your case, seem to be saying "if I left so can anyone else" which is utter BS. [/b]

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Putting words in my mouth, SG. I don't think that at all. I only mentioned my leaving in the context of the concept of "economic violence," a term I question. By the way, my partner didn't abuse me and I don't consider the situation analogous in the slightest.

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[b]If anyone is missing the points here, it is you and as a past victim of an abusive "partner" I don't owe you, or anyone else, the answer you are looking for.[/b]

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Never suggested I was "owed" anything, thanks. If you can't or don't want to answer any questions, then, fine, you're free not to, of course.

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[b]You have formed your opinions. You have stated that you don't want to address why men abuse. [/b]

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No, I've merely expressed my opinion that addressing [i]why[/i] men abuse is not nearly as important as making sure that women [i]aren't[/i] abused.

[b]

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You have chosen to gloss over the other side, aptly pointed out by both BCG and TV. Ignore it if you will but I am beginning to sense you are just not interested in stopping your blaming of the victim. And that is sad.[/b]

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No, I am not blaming the victim and the accusation is getting tedious. Asking "Why does she stay?" doesn't mean I believe it's her fault and I've said so clearly.

[ 27 October 2008: Message edited by: G. Pie ]

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Originally posted by TVParkdale:
[b]One is that you do not accept her answer. Why can you not accept that as *her* reality? Does it affect your life in some way?[/b]

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I don't accept it because it's completely unacceptable. And, yes, it does affect my life. I have to hear her complain about the repeated behaviour and I have to watch my friend throw her life away.

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[b]You call her lifestyle "sick"--by what definition?[/b]

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By any definition. Dysfunctional. Destructive. Diminishing. Frightening.

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[b]You will help her if she leaves but not support her if she stays. [/b]

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That's right.

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[b]You want her to do what YOU want. Not what she's telling you SHE wants. You have two options left because this isn't about her. It's about you. You can either exit the relationship because it is too painful for you or you can look at this in a completely different light because you value her friendship.[/b]

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Leaving or maintaining the friendship is a pretty obvious choice. But seeing this dysfunction in a "completely different light" would mean condoning what's going on.

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[b]Blaming her for staying with her mate isn't going to make that decision any easier.[/b]

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Blaming her for staying with her abusive partner is exactly what brought forth the decision.

TVP, I really haven't been at my best in my thread and I'm going to leave it here. I will not abandon my friend but my eyes will continue to glaze over whenever she complains about this never-ending situation.

G.Pie: No, I've read them and understand them and just don't think they're compelling.

SG: You are making a judgement. YOU are determining what makes a woman stay valid, not the women themselves.

G.Pie: Putting words in my mouth, SG. I don't think that at all. I only mentioned my leaving in the context of the concept of "economic violence," a term I question. By the way, my partner didn't abuse me and I don't consider the situation analogous in the slightest.

SG: I did not put words in your mouth. You said the words. You may have interpreted them differently from me, but you certainly do your own interpretations no?

G.Pie: Never suggested I was "owed" anything, thanks. If you can't or don't want to answer any questions, then, fine, you're free not to, of course.

SG: I won't answer your questions because you seem a little hostile to the whole notion. Why would I bother, when the person won't listen? (isn't that what you say in regards to your "friend"?

G. Pie: No, I've merely expressed my opinion that addressing why men abuse is not nearly as important as making sure that women aren't abused.

SG: Clearly, to me, your priorities are screwed up. You don't want to address why men abuse. Oh no. That would require something.,...what? maybe a look at WHY women stay. The fact you can't or won't make the connection is testimony to your blame the victim came. I do not sense any sincerity in your posts thus far. Just thinly veiled disgust toward your friend, and by extension, women in similar circumstance. Which BTW, YOU WILL NEVER UNDERSTAND because a) you chose to and b) You weren't ever a victim.

G.Pie: No, I am not blaming the victim and the accusation is getting tedious. Asking "Why does she stay?" doesn't mean I believe it's her fault and I've said so clearly.

SG: Yes in fact, you are blaming the victim. "I don't understand", "my eyes will just glaze over". You're a real fighter huh? I'm sure your friend could do without your patronizing attitude.

With that, I leave you to work out what is going on in your own psyche that you feel the need to a) avoid discussions regarding why men abuse (which will clearly lead to further exploration and knowledge about how hard it is for women to stay) and b) be such a passive-aggressive "friend" to the woman in your life who is in an abusive situation that you will just "glaze your eyes over".

Adieu.

Clearly you don't want "help". You'd like to leave with your feelings of hostility over your friend. I actually didn't want to "help" you. You're not interested in hearing about anything you don't want to hear, or how others have interpreted your words.

I have no hostility toward you. Just an FYI.

Aw yes, a waste of time. Well then. That closes the case. Let's focus on why the hell women stay. Really, what is their damned problem anyways?

Stargazer and Pie
STOP!

I like you both. Don't go to this place with each other. It's painful.

Namecalling and polarization won't help anything.

Stand back a moment. Breathe, think.

Pie is in a painful relationship and struggling to make sense of it.

Stargazer: You're responding from your experience and concern for people you know, too.

We all want the same thing. It's painful to watch people we care about, being hurt.

So step back a moment. Really take that statement in.

We want our pain, and the pain of other women being subjected to violence, to stop.

This is common ground.

Lashing out at each other is just feeding the same old game that stops us from being able to look at all possible solutions or to analyze all sides of the problem effectively.

Violence is the enemy. Not each other's opinions.

TVP, I see a future for you in the area of conflict resolution.

SG, I'm sorry I got focussed on one facet and it wasn't the most important one. I don't know why men abuse women. I fear it's as simple as "because they can."

My link to the original article doesn't work, but going by memory, the article said while there were some fights, at the point where it escalated the woman left her partner. Hardly the kind of case where women repeatedly return to a very abusive partner time and again-- which is what Pockele, erroneously, made this out to be.

I tend to think this shows one aspect of why men abuse women. We live in a society of abuse, where we excuse and even glory in the exploitation of the less strong by the strong. We see it in our governments, in our economy, and in our legal system. It would be difficult not to pick it up by osmossis.

I'm not offering that up as a panacea, or an excuse or rationalization. It's an aspect.

And I think Pockele, unwittingly, provides key evidence in support.